Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Tuesday, October 21, 2014

127 comments on “2011 Game Thread: Knicks @ Raptors

  1. Z

    One concern going into this game is that last season D’Antoni had them completely and utterly unprepared for the season. They lost by about 400 points to the Heat on opening night, and started the season 1-9 losing to a bunch of really mediocre teams.

    I know it was pre-season and the games didn’t count, but he showed no interest in winning any of the games, going with the 10th-15th men in the 4th quarter. Hopefully he knows what he’s doing at this point, but last October/November he clearly did not.

  2. tastycakes

    OMG IT’S REALLY HAPPENING!!!

    :) A friend is coming over to watch so I won’t be liveblogging this here piece; hope it’s a good one!

  3. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    If Fields really becomes a 0.200 WP/48 player as a rookie, and he’s given 2000 minutes, this team could be a first-round playoff threat…

  4. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    No one responded in the other thread, so what the hell:

    How many games will the Knicks have played before they outrebound their opponents? My guess is ten.

  5. David Crockett

    Knicks not getting slaughtered on the boards and forcing some turnovers.

    The shooting seems unsustainable, but the Knicks digging for steals and deflections.

  6. Droidz1979

    who cares about the rebounds as long as we get the win then am fine with it.. Chandler seems to be the top scorer so far.

  7. David Crockett

    Not crazy about how we’re (not) playing the screen roll. We’re not doing anything. We’re playing over the top but the guy getting screened isn’t hedging at all. Either send the defender under the screen or the bigs have to step up.

  8. SeeWhyDee77

    hey guys..anybody got another site besides ATDHE that I might be able 2 catch the game on? For some reason I can’t find anything an I desperately need 2 scratch my 1st game of the season itch

  9. ess-dog

    -We need Ray and/or TD to get around Jack and start setting guys up.
    -Amar’e stop turning the ball over.
    -Somebody please stop all-star Andrea Bargnani
    -More Fields, Dougie and WilChan
    -Christ I need a beer already

  10. nicos

    Mason, Walker, and Gallo, all pretty awful. Amare 3-7 with 5 turnovers (though a few of those weren’t his fault). But they’re still up- Chandler, TD, and Turiaf all solid off of the bench. Would have loved to have seen Fields make that dunk!

  11. BigBlueAL

    Knicks with 5 blocks already. Definitely a major improvement from years past. Amar’e has 0 blocks but I couldve sworn he had a couple.

  12. David Crockett

    cgreene: why don’t they have amare on bargagni and timo as the help off evans?  

    b/c Timo is only on the floor in :30 spurts.

  13. Frank O.

    Amare doesn’t do as well posting up. He has trouble when forced to dribble and he’s not reacting well to the double.
    His turnovers are happening when he’s trying to dribble out of the double.
    He’s not getting the ball in good spots. He’s posting up a bit to far from the basket and so he needs to dribble.

    Fields is so smooth.
    Mosgov is as advertised. A bit uneven. Prone to dumb fouls, but he’s forced to shots to be altered as has Amare. He may not have a block but he has forced people to alter.
    Douglas looks very sound off the bench, as has WC.
    Why does Kleza always look all world against the Knicks.

    Gallo is cold.

  14. Frank O.

    Too much one on one.

    They sometimes play like they’re playing pick up…and given their experience with each other, that’s probably how they are playing. Amare is trying to attack from too far out

  15. David Crockett

    Amare is allowing himself to be forced into difficult shots. He’s not working without the ball.

    He’s dribbling in traffic like he’s doing a Steve Francis impersonator.

  16. Mulligan

    Man, has Chandler ever played better? He’s really cut back on the boneheaded plays and is def. bringing the hustle.

    Also, I love it when Felton does that little shovel pass. Looks sweet.

  17. marxster

    This moment is the perfect example of how Amare is different from David Lee…It’s at the end of the game where the Knicks of last year would fall flat, but Amare quickly scored a couple of buckets to give us a better chance to win.

  18. Ted Nelson

    David Crockett: Gallo has been TURR’BUL  

    He hasn’t impressed, but I would go that far. 12 points on 9 shots, 4 reb, 1 ast, 1 blk, 1 stl, 0 TO…

    latke: Some people need to eat some crow about Chandler not being an effective power forward  

    Yeah, he’s doing well. Still jacking up some shots he’s not likely to make consistently. Don’t forget, though, these are the Raptors. I don’t mean to take anything away from a very good performance, but the Raptors are expected to be one of the worst teams and one of the worst defenses in the NBA. Bargnani is laughed at for his defense, and that’s whose mostly guarding him. He has looked promising regardlessly, though. The 8 rebounds are nice.

  19. Mulligan

    Uh, I just realized that our bockers are winning the rebound battle. Did not think that would really happen once this season.

  20. Spree8nyk8

    Boy seeing the Knicks with a true finisher is a dream come true. Amare can just flip the switch at anytime and I agree with Marxster, if you wanna see the difference between David Lee and Amare, there you have it.

  21. Mulligan

    Why do the refs where headphones when watching the replay? What is that really going to add to evaluating the play?

  22. David Crockett

    Ted Nelson:
    He hasn’t impressed, but I would go that far. 12 points on 9 shots, 4 reb, 1 ast, 1 blk, 1 stl, 0 TO…

    I wrote that before he hit a couple shots. He’s been better since they switched Bargnani onto him.

  23. Ted Nelson

    Spree8nyk8: Boy seeing the Knicks with a true finisher is a dream come true. Amare can just flip the switch at anytime and I agree with Marxster, if you wanna see the difference between David Lee and Amare, there you have it. 

    I don’t mean to be a dick, but our “finisher” has turned it over on two straight possessions… He could have cost them the game. Lee absolutely could have 19 on 16 shtos with 10 rebounds… that would be a normal night.

  24. Ted Nelson

    This is why I almost hate it when Chandler has a good game, because suddenly he thinks he’s LeBron James… They have one of the best shooters in the league on the floor and still haven’t gotten him the ball. Same old in terms of actually getting Gallo the ball…

  25. David Crockett

    Ted Nelson:
    I don’t mean to be a dick, but our “finisher” has turned it over on two straight possessions… He could have cost them the game. Lee absolutely could have 19 on 16 shtos with 10 rebounds… that would be a normal night.  

    Way, way, way, way too much dribbling.

  26. David Crockett

    Ted Nelson: This is why I almost hate it when Chandler has a good game, because suddenly he thinks he’s LeBron James… They have one of the best shooters in the league on the floor and still haven’t gotten him the ball. Same old in terms of actually getting Gallo the ball…  

    Nice to hear your virtual voice again Ted.

    Gallo has to come get the ball!

    Gonna be a fun season man :)

  27. Spree8nyk8

    Ted Nelson:
    I don’t mean to be a dick, but our “finisher” has turned it over on two straight possessions… He could have cost them the game. Lee absolutely could have 19 on 16 shtos with 10 rebounds… that would be a normal night.  

    Sure he made a couple of silly turnovers, no doubt. But how many games last year did Lee put the Knicks on his back late in a game? Yeah he went 19 and 10 but he seldom had big fourth quarters especially in tight games. Usually Lee disappears in the fourth quarter. And this has easily been an “off” game for Amare, he’s going to be much better most nights. My comments were only pointing to the 4 or 5 mins in the fourth where he scored at will.

  28. Ted Nelson

    David Crockett: Nice to hear your virtual voice again Ted.

    Gallo has to come get the ball!

    Thanks. I would like to see him doing more, but you have a deadly shooter sitting there waiting for the ball that never comes… The assertive guys like Chandler and Felton end up taking shots they shouldn’t necessarily take (not Amare, since you want him taking it), with a wide open Gallo.

    1-0, though, so who cares…

  29. Garson

    Line and Player of the game:

    Ronny Turiaf 8 points , 3-4 shooting, 4 boards , 2 steals , 4 blocks +8

    game changer

  30. Mulligan

    Ted Nelson:
    I don’t mean to be a dick, but our “finisher” has turned it over on two straight possessions… He could have cost them the game. Lee absolutely could have 19 on 16 shtos with 10 rebounds… that would be a normal night.  

    Fair enough, but he also scored 7 straight before that and held the lead for them when they needed it.

  31. marxster

    Let’s use this to build confidence and momentum. Pretty impressed with Fields. If we can get Gallo out of his funk, we’ll be golden.

    Still would deal for Melo any day though. I feel this team won’t get over that hump with a bit more help.

  32. d-mar

    Agree, Spree at the key moment of the game when the Raptors were within 3 or 4, Amare scored the key baskets. That’s what a star does. Yes, he had some bad TO’s, but he came up big when we needed him to.

  33. David Crockett

    Ted Nelson:
    Thanks. I would like to see him doing more, but you have a deadly shooter sitting there waiting for the ball that never comes… The assertive guys like Chandler and Felton end up taking shots they shouldn’t necessarily take (not Amare, since you want him taking it), with a wide open Gallo.1-0, though, so who cares…  

    Gallo had a couple post ups tonight. I was like “yes!” He’s got a decent little post game I want to see more of.

  34. Ted Nelson

    Spree8nyk8: Sure he made a couple of silly turnovers, no doubt.

    9 of them by the official count… I know that’s not going to happen every night, but I just think the whole David Lee can’t do anything stuff goes too far. The Raptors might be one of the worst teams in the NBA this season (they might not too…), and the Knicks squeaked out a victory, with Amare hurting as much as helping. David Lee absolutely did help the Knicks beat the Nets and other terrible teams last season.

    Spree8nyk8: Usually Lee disappears in the fourth quarter.

    As I recall his clutch stats were pretty good, but I’ll check it out maybe I’m wrong.

  35. Ted Nelson

    Ted Nelson: Spree8nyk8: Usually Lee disappears in the fourth quarter.

    As I recall his clutch stats were pretty good, but I’ll check it out maybe I’m wrong. 

    Yeah ctrl F Lee on this link http://www.82games.com/0910/CSORT11.HTM and you’ll see that Lee murdered people in the clutch last season. 23 pts (per40?), 16 reb, 64.8% FG%… But, sure he disappears in the clutch because he’s a goofy looking white dude… His -28 +/- in the clutch couldn’t result from being the best player on a crap team… (and also his own bad defense combined with his teammates mostly bad defense).

  36. latke

    Yeah, stoudemire turned it over a lot, but Lee will never be the scorer that Stoudemire is. He has a nice jumpshot, he finishes on the break, and he gets opportunistic baskets off rebounds, but one on one, he just can’t finish like stoudemire, and that’s something that hurt us late in games. That 7 point spurt from Amare was crucial.

    Turiaf looked really good, good enough so that I got pretty nervous when he came up limping.

    Overall, I think the knicks looked like a significantly improved team on both ends of the floor. Gallinari and Stoudemire had off games, and we still won. That’s a very good sign.

  37. d-mar

    @86 Agree, at the key moment of the game when the Raptors were within 3 or 4, Amare scored the key baskets. That’s what a star does. Yes, he had some bad TO’s, but he came up big when we needed him to.

    The thing that most impressed me about ill Will was not just the scoring, but he was a demon defensively. He made Bargnani invisible in the 2nd half, had a couple of blocks and played perfect D on Barbosa on that last shot. Just overall an excellent game by WC.

  38. Ted Nelson

    Anyway, I’ll stop about David Lee.

    Nice to get a win!

    Interesting game. Obviously just a ridiculously small sample, but maybe a few “so this is what happens when it actually counts” things. 4 fouls in 7 minutes for Timo… I didn’t necessarily expect Fields to take 3/4 of his FGAs from 3… I guess Bill Walker is, in fact, human and not a scoring efficiency robot… Rebounding was good, but it’s also the Raptors…. Shooting was bad overall… Wasn’t too impressed with ball movement after being more impressed in pre-season, but it was decent… Defense looked good, but again it was the Raptors… 10 blks and zero for Timo, wouldn’t have expected it… Turiazgov played 28 minutes, so the 1/2 the game estimators were right in the opener (granted, Timo might manage more than 7 minutes other nights). While some people want to see a “finisher” and “2nd scoring option” emerge, I was pretty pissed off when both Amare and WC stood around and took really long, contested 2s in the late 4th without moving the ball around at all. The Knicks can put 4 or 5 scorers out there, and while Amare is their “finisher” they need to continue to run their offense rather than WC thinking he’s MJ and Amare channeling Al Harrington. I understand Felton wants to feed the hot hand and run towards the basket with his buddies, but he’s got to look for Gallo too.

  39. ess-dog

    How bout this: Cleveland 95, Boston 87.
    Probably some let down after the Heat game.

    And I’m pretty sure Landry’s now my favorite player.

  40. Droidz1979

    Landry Fields is a steal late in the second round at a bargain price.. Walsh is a genius! If only he could get Melo without losing Galo then i’d elevate him to ‘mythical’ status…

  41. Ted Nelson

    latke: Lee will never be the scorer that Stoudemire is. He has a nice jumpshot, he finishes on the break, and he gets opportunistic baskets off rebounds, but one on one, he just can’t finish like stoudemire, and that’s something that hurt us late in games. That 7 point spurt from Amare was crucial.

    Ok, I won’t stop… I never said Lee is the scorer Amare is, though I still think people are underrating him to an irritating extent… your point basically reads that he’s a nice hustle player who gets a few easy baskets (transition, “opportunistic baskets off rebounds”), which is BS. I mean really, really BS. Clutch time last season he scored 23 pts (don’t know if it’s per40 or 36) at a 65% and he grabbed 16 reb (over same time span). I really think people are A. confusing team success with individual success, B. selectively remembering Lee not being able to save a bad team from losing games, and C. underrating him because he doesn’t jump out of the gym. Make no mistake, Lee is one of the best finishers in the NBA in the halfcourt (he is still a mediocre jump shooter even with the improvement) and basketball is not an individual game.

    d-mar: Agree, at the key moment of the game when the Raptors were within 3 or 4, Amare scored the key baskets.

    AND 2 key TOs… I mean he had an ok game and I’m very excited, but this “oh, Lee never won any games for the Knicks” stuff is BS. They lost a lot, but Lee was a very good player. Early in games, late in games, whenever. Placing the blame for losing other games on Lee or the credit for winning that game on a sub-par game from Amare… I don’t get it. If he had played better earlier in the game, he wouldn’t have needed to score those 3 baskets. They would have won easily.

    It’s the Raptors, but defense was a big key in that win late. I don’t know if the Raptors will get much going against other teams or not, but the Knicks made it hard for them to score. Last season Lee might have scored 7 points in the 5 clutch possessions he used or whatever Amare did (not incredibly impressive) but the Knicks would have given back that and more.

    d-mar: The thing that most impressed me about ill Will was not just the scoring, but he was a demon defensively.

    I think having some guys around him who can defend helps a lot, both for him and the viewer. I was impressed overall, but man did he fall into the old chucker ways late in the 4th… For those obsessed with “finishers,” Wilson Chandler is one guy whose hands I do not think I want the ball in late in a game. He was just trying to do way, way to much all by himself.

  42. BigBlueAL

    I dont understand, Michael Kay said Landry Fields is not an NBA player.

    He came up with a few big plays in the 4th quarter, tipping a def rebound to a teammate and saving a rebound from going out of bounds plus an offensive rebound for a putback and a key block. The kid just knows how to play the game.

    Also everybody on the Knicks was a + except for Gallo at -3 and surprisingly Chandler at 0.

  43. nicos

    I’ll take any road win for sure. Much better rebounding in the 2nd half. The number that leaps out is only 12 assists on 38 fgs- I know that with guys like Bargnani & Calderon Toronto invites you to take them off of the dribble but the ball movement/spacing really never clicked. TD- 0 assists in 26 minutes. I do think Gallo needs to be more aggressive in presenting himself but down the stretch the Knicks were just looking to either get the ball to Amare or find Bargnani and let whoever he was guarding go one on one- the one time Bargnani switched from Chandler onto Gallo, Chandler came over and set a little screen to get Gallo an open three.

    Also for all of his supposed athleticism Walker really struggles to score inside- at least three times he got the ball underneath and couldn’t even manage to get to the line.

    Finally, I hope D’Antoni backs off a little on the “Let’s switch everything” approach on the defensive end. Too many times you had Turiaf on Jack or Felton on Bargnani and everyone scrambling to switch up and recover- They did challenge at the rim all night however- 10 Blocks and just 38% shooting allowed.

  44. BigBlueAL

    Yeah, Chandler’s basketball IQ is still severely lacking. I know its just the Raptors but they should still be a decent offensive team and the Knicks held them to 38% shooting, outrebounded them 48-45 and as mentioned above blocked 10 shots.

    The Knicks might actually be a better defensive team than offensive team!! lol

  45. Ted Nelson

    BigBlueAL: Also everybody on the Knicks was a + except for Gallo at -3 and surprisingly Chandler at 0.  

    I don’t think you can put too much weight on +/-, at least for 1 game. I like that ESPN is making the effort, but I just don’t know that it’s meaningful. Mason and Walker were both +3, but a combined 0-9 from the field for zero points overall. They had some rebounds and maybe it was their defense, but it could just be that they’re on the court when WC or Amare or TD gets hot and/or when Bargnani or whoever gets cold… WC and Gallo, on the other hand, are maybe on the court when Amare turns it over 9 times and look bad.

    Agree on Fields. Looking good.

  46. Frank

    Good win to start the season – especially with Amare really having an off night.

    Is it just me or does Felton run PnR with everyone BUT Amare? I saw him go PnR with Mozgov a couple times, Turiaf a couple times. But every time it’s Felton and Amare on the same side, it’s a dribble handoff to Amare near the 3 point line and watch Amare go one on one. In fact, I can’t think of a single play where they ran the PnR?!?!?

  47. Ted Nelson

    nicos: I know that with guys like Bargnani & Calderon Toronto invites you to take them off of the dribble but the ball movement/spacing really never clicked.

    Good points, both the possible strategy to take them off the dribble and the lack of flow.

    nicos: Also for all of his supposed athleticism Walker really struggles to score inside

    I think tonight was a bit of a fluke. The past two seasons his FG% was very good close: .675 in NY and .718 in Boston 08-09. Not saying he’s a beast inside, but he has done a good job of taking shots he can hit (as he says) over his career.

  48. danvt

    Hey Dudes,
    Looking forward to reading everyone’s comments on this happy night. Here’s what I saw. K’s seemed to enjoy an advantage in strength and size and that was refreshing. Mozgov won the opening tip which I can’t ever remember Lee doing. Fields looked very confident checking Derozan. Also, we had the best player on the court in Amar’e. It’s been a long time since that has been the case. This is a good win, not a great win, but a good win. It would have been a dispiriting loss, even on the road. We are better than this team who, if we really are better this year, we should be better than (there’s a sentence for ya!). We did not play our best game, Gallo, Stat, and TD will play better, yet we won. Also, different from the last nine years. Felton looked quick and had some nice drives. Timofey was starting to “exert” himself (I meant assert but couldn’t resist the malaprop), early in the third but couldn’t stay on the court. Nice to have the other big body in Turiaf, but tonight we didn’t need it against the euro style Raps, and Wilson Chandler dominated Bargniani. Hey, we had the two best players on the court. We should have won by twenty but we did not lose. Mazel Tov (Mazel Gov?, oh I’m hotter than a pistol!) Sweet dreams.
    d

  49. TDM

    Great game. Glad to finally meet some of the posters at the Knickerblogger event. He’ll, I even came away with a poster. So big question – what was more impressive: knicks over the raptors with 10 blocks, or nets over the pistons? Although frustrating at times, I gotta go with the knicks! Good times.

  50. nicos

    Ted- You’re probably right on Walker- I do think he’s much more effective inside when he has some space (on the break and back door alley-oops). When there’s congestion he struggles a bit- I’d guess almost all of his turnovers come on charges in the lane- and I don’t think he’s a great flat-footed leaper. That said, just about everybody struggles a heck of lot more when there’s congestion- I guess I was just annoyed that he missed a gimme on a really nice pass from Chandler.

    On minute distribution- Amare played 20 minutes at center which you can’t expect to happen every night. That left a lot of minutes open for Chandler at the 4. It’ll be interesting to see what happens when those minutes at the 4 shrink against bigger teams- you’d have to think that Chandler will then see at least some of those minutes Walker and Mason got tonight.

  51. nicos

    Also, did Chandler’s mid-range game tonight remind anybody of a guy out in Denver?

    p.s. yes I know that if Carmelo had Bargnani checking him all game he’d have probably gone off for 40.

  52. jaylamerique

    nicos: Ted- On minute distribution- Amare played 20 minutes at center which you can’t expect to happen every night.That left a lot of minutes open for Chandler at the 4.It’ll be interesting to see what happens when those minutes at the 4 shrink against bigger teams- you’d have to think that Chandler will then see at least some of those minutes Walker and Mason got tonight.  

    chandler is actually a good option for the 4 in my opinion. there aren’t many pf that have a good enough post game to dominate him inside. + with him at the 4 he is able to stay in front laterally of the quick 4.

    nicos: .Finally, I hope D’Antoni backs off a little on the “Let’s switch everything” approach on the defensive end.Too many times you had Turiaf on Jack or Felton on Bargnani and everyone scrambling to switch up and recover- They did challenge at the rim all night however- 10 Blocks and just 38% shooting allowed.  

    D’ Antoni has always switched every pnr. thats why he had jefferies on pg’s last yr.

  53. Spree8nyk8

    Nobody is calling Lee a bad player, he was the heart and soul of the team the last few years. But last year there was at least 10 games (i’m sure it was more but i’ll stick with 10), where we lost late leads or were in 2 pt or less situations where Lee didn’t demand the ball and never seemed to assert himself. Those were games that we needed a go to guy, and we didn’t have one. Lee is a workman, he’s going to play hard the whole way through, he’s going to gobble up a bunch of rebounds and make the most out of opportunistic spots, he’s also got a steady jumper. But in crunch time he was very weak in the low post, can’t find his own shot, and just not a go to type player.

    Basically I sum up the comparison like this. For 43 mins you’ll get a slight scoring boost from Amare and a rebounding boost from Lee. But for those last 5 mins, you have an Amare that can do it all when it’s needed the most. I think he’s gonna have a huge season, and I’m really glad we picked him up. Now if you wanna save this quote, maybe 3 years from now you can rub it in my face if things are different. But for now, I’m behind it 100%

  54. Spree8nyk8

    Also, I’d keep in mind that we beat a team that hammered us a few days ago (yeah i know it was preseason), crushed us on the boards and basically ended the preseason on a very low note. And!!! They did it with a poor game from Gallo, a less than super Amare performance, Timo got 7 mins, and Randolph is injured. I mean that has to be a promising thing. If they can be good enough to gut out a few wins when they don’t have their best it will go a long way towards making the playoffs. Last year if they weren’t on the their best game it was an easy loss. Hell they won a game by 50 and then turned around and lost one by 50. I think this year slowly they’ll become a cohesive unit and by the end of the season there really isn’t much telling how good they can be.

    Also, if they can get off to a reasonable start, Denver is gonna have to deal. Denver will lose a ton of leverage if this team starts showing something….

  55. rama

    Spree –

    You’re still arguing entirely from perception, whereas Ted is giving you actual concrete numbers. Whether Lee “seemed to assert himself” or not, the reality was that late in games he played better and scored extremely well. Whether Amare “can do it all when it’s needed most,” tonight he turned the ball over twice in crucial late possessions.

    No one’s arguing Amare isn’t a great offensive player. And not a single poster has called Lee better than Amare. But many pointed have pointed out – convincingly – that the gap is much, much narrower than it appears, including in late-game crunch situations.

    Will Amare gets calls DLee won’t? Probably. But Lee took and made a lot of big late game shots…it was just on a bad team that lost a lot of games and had pretty much NO TALENT around him, so he didn’t look as good as he is.

  56. BigBlueAL

    Funny thing is Kenny Smith and Greg Anthony tonight on NBATV each went on and on for a few minutes about the difference between Amar’e and Lee is that Amar’e wants the ball in crunch time and that opposing defenses dont gameplan to stop Lee but they do to try to stop Amar’e.

    Not saying they are right or wrong of course.

  57. Sparks with Starks

    Regarding the clutch stats on David Lee, those numbers, as I understand it, are for 48 minutes. My interpretation is that Lee was extremely efficient in the clutch but he didn’t perhaps attempt as many shots as he could have, for whatever reason.

    Per 36 minutes last year, he averaged 19.6 pts. By my calculations, his per 48 minute average therefore was 26 pts.

    So his clutch-time average of 22.4 pts. per 48 minutes would be below his scoring average, although his FG% in the clutch of 65% was significantly better than his per 36 minute FG% of 55%.

  58. Owen

    A new season is upon us, sorry to miss the meetup, was hoping to make it.

    Good to see a win, good to see we haven’t forgotten about Lee around here.

    Off topic, but I am the only one whose MAC just gets destroyed when you try to open this site?

  59. fespinal

    Seeing Amar’e yesterday was truly great. The final stat line does not tell the story. 19 & 10 sounds very much like something David Lee could have done but Lee is a player who gets his points within the flow of the game and normally will only take high percentage shots which makes him a high efficiency player. STAT was able to score at will at a moment in the game where we needed that to seal the victory. We have been missing that for quite some time.

    Also for all the talk about Amar’e’s defense, he was quite active yesterday providing a good presence.

  60. Ted Nelson

    nicos: Amare played 20 minutes at center which you can’t expect to happen every night.

    Why not?

    Spree8nyk8: But last year there was at least 10 games (i’m sure it was more but i’ll stick with 10), where we lost late leads or were in 2 pt or less situations where Lee didn’t demand the ball and never seemed to assert himself.

    You realize that Amare only scored 7 points on 6 possessions late in the game, right?

    Spree8nyk8: Lee is a workman

    This is the sort of thing that drives me nuts… He is a very skilled player. They literally ran their offense through him last season, and they had the #17 offense in the NBA. And he didn’t turn it over 9 times when they gave him the ball and asked him to do work. As much as Lee can’t do what Amare can, I think the opposite is also true.

    Spree8nyk8: But for those last 5 mins, you have an Amare that can do it all when it’s needed the most.

    Are you intentionally ignoring my posts? Clutch stats on 82games.com LITERALLY measure performance in the last 5 minutes of a game where neither team is ahead by 5 points or less. This is like discussing an issue with a wall…

    Spree8nyk8: They did it with a poor game from Gallo

    That’s not true.

    Spree8nyk8: I mean that has to be a promising thing.

    Toronto is picked to be one of the worst teams in the NBA this season. The Knicks only lost the preseason game because they played a 3rd unit and got crushed in the 2nd Q. The other 3 Qs I believe the Knicks actually won… the Qs where their rotation guys were in there together.

    fespinal: STAT was able to score at will at a moment in the game where we needed that to seal the victory. We have been missing that for quite some time.

    Again, you are ignoring the TOs. He scored 7 points on 6 possessions used. He used 4 possessions to score and 2 to turn it over. He got outright stripped twice in a row by the great Jarrett Jack, and people are amazed at how well he did? I expect better in an average game, but this was not a game where Amare sealed it late. He did as much to lose the game late as win it. The Knicks barely beat one of the worst teams in the league.

  61. massive

    Well, according to Basketball Reference, this is STAT’s advanced stat line: TS%: .51, TRB%: 14.2, Usage; 33.1, PER: 9.6, WS/48: -0.074.

    Pretty bad, huh? I’m sure he’ll fix that as the season progresses. Normally, Amar’e isn’t a turnover machine and is WAY more efficient.

  62. Spree8nyk8

    rama: Spree –
    You’re still arguing entirely from perception, whereas Ted is giving you actual concrete numbers.

    Whatever, sure, it’s perception. Do you have “numbers” to illustrate how many double digit leads the knicks lost late in games last year because they lacked a go to guy? Because I remember a ton of them. Maybe some of those games in the last five mins after they had already blown the lead Lee was efficient. But imo there is a difference between efficient and GO TO….

  63. NateRobinson

    Lee was never keyed on D like Amare was on this game. And Lee’s late work consisted of pick and pops and rolls. Amare did it on isos.

  64. Ted Nelson

    massive: Well, according to Basketball Reference, this is STAT’s advanced stat line: TS%: .51, TRB%: 14.2, Usage; 33.1, PER: 9.6, WS/48: -0.074.

    Thank you for providing some objectivity and sanity…

    Spree8nyk8: Do you have “numbers” to illustrate how many double digit leads the knicks lost late in games last year because they lacked a go to guy?

    One guy does not lose a double digit lead… that takes an entire team. (Or maybe Jared Jeffries…)

    I don’t understand why you would even begin to think that one guy is entirely responsible for his team’s success… I’ve said this 10 billion times and am not sure anyone has actually listened, but look at KG and Kobe’s careers… Their team success is directly correlated to quality of teammates. KG has won 30 games and then 60 games in back-to-back seasons…

    NateRobinson: Amare did it on isos.  

    AMARE SCORED SEVEN POINTS WHILE USING SIX POSSESSIONS…

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