Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Saturday, October 25, 2014

2011 Game Thread: Knicks @ Raptors

For your in-post game thoughts.

249 comments on “2011 Game Thread: Knicks @ Raptors

  1. Z-man

    This is an interesting game. Both teams have improved since the lackluster season opener. Toronto has had some nice wins lately.

  2. ltmurray

    any word on Turiaf’s availability today? i’m stuck in boston and ive seen Bargnani go off on the Celtics at times, and its no secret the Knicks have had trouble guarding scoring big men…would be nice to have Rony out there to guard him.

  3. marxster

    ltmurray: any word on Turiaf’s availability today? i’m stuck in boston and ive seen Bargnani go off on the Celtics at times, and its no secret the Knicks have had trouble guarding scoring big men…would be nice to have Rony out there to guard him.  

    I believe Alan Hahn said he’s game time decision.

  4. Aharon

    Does anyone have a streaming link? This is one of those games for which being EST+7 doesn’t mean I can’t watch it :)

  5. Brian Cronin

    Gallo – you cannot hit outside shots with your feet not set. Don’t take outside shots with your feet not set, please. Thanks.

  6. latke

    Peter87: atdhe feed still not working for me…can someone tell me the score please?  

    feed works but you have to install veetle. The knicks up 25-10. Toronto announcers cant stop talking about how good the knicks are.

  7. Peter87

    I have installed veetle, but veetle.com seems unavailable here in Italy :(

    Thanks for the score though!

  8. jaylamerique

    marxster: Isola just tweeted that “Chandler is arguably the 2nd best player on the team!Woa…  

    actually not a crazy idea. its either him or felton.

  9. marxster

    jaylamerique:
    actually not a crazy idea. its either him or felton.  

    You don’t hear that when Chandler goes on a 3-pointer chucking tear that drives everyone nuts.

  10. Brian Cronin

    If ever there was a time to give Toney a crack at running the offense, this would be the time. Just give Felton a rest, Mike!

  11. Mulligan

    Did Felton sit at all that quarter? Also, is Rautins in the D-League yet or was that just an idea folks were tossing around?

  12. jaylamerique

    marxster:
    You don’t hear that when Chandler goes on a 3-pointer chucking tear that drives everyone nuts.  

    he hasnt had one of those games since the streak started. you are downgrading Chandlers influence on this team. He gives them more lineup options because of his strong d.

  13. Aharon

    Peter87- I’ve had veetle work usually here (in Israel), but for whatever reason the links right now aren’t.

  14. marxster

    After Moz fumble a bunch of balls last game, someone must have instilled in him to “Dunk the f…… ball”

  15. Mulligan

    Is Acie Law horrible? Dude was a lottery pick, wasn’t he? Grizzlies just released him. We could definitely use some more depth at the PG. If Felton ever got hurt… what would we do?

  16. Brian Cronin

    Aren’t the Knicks pretty much at the limit, roster-wise? They’d have to cut someone, and I don’t see who they would cut for Law. Rautins? Seems a bit early to cut him.

  17. Brian Cronin

    Hahaha…oh man, you take Felton out of the game and the team’s collective decision-making goes down the toilet. Maybe Fields should just run the offense.

  18. marxster

    Brian Cronin: Aren’t the Knicks pretty much at the limit, roster-wise? They’d have to cut someone, and I don’t see who they would cut for Law. Rautins? Seems a bit early to cut him.  

    Actually, D’Antoni said they’re thinking of sending Rautins to the D-League.

  19. Brian Cronin

    Does Gallinari play for the Knicks?

    He doesn’t get the ball very often from Felton, so you can’t expect him to ever get the ball from Toney.

  20. Brian Cronin

    Actually, D’Antoni said they’re thinking of sending Rautins to the D-League.

    I’m unfamiliar with the D-League system. That takes you off of the team’s roster? If so, then yeah, that would clearly work.

  21. Mulligan

    I don’t think it does… but seriously, can we cut Mason already? Between him, Curry and Rautins (seriously not seeing the potential with that guy), there’s a bit too much dead weight at the end of the bench…

  22. Robert Silverman

    Brian Cronin:
    I’m unfamiliar with the D-League system. That takes you off of the team’s roster? If so, then yeah, that would clearly work.  

    No, a player sent to the D-League is still on the roster – he’d just be considered to be on the Inactive List. For example, today the inactives are Curry, Turiaf and Rautins. If they sent Rautins down, the Nix could only have 2 other players on the IL

  23. Brian Cronin

    Again, Gallo, if your feet are not set, just take it to the hoop – you’re not going to make the shot.

  24. Brian Cronin

    Oh yeah, Mason! I knew there was a guy that I was okay with them cutting. So yeah, I’m down with Law over Mason.

  25. Brian Cronin

    Why has Gallo stopped driving to the basket?

    A. I don’t know. It doesn’t make sense, especially since he has shown he can do it pretty easily whenever he wants to.

    B. “Whenever he wants to” is not often because he doesn’t get the ball that much

    C. When Felton is scoring like crazy, I can’t complain too much.

  26. dubisaweapon

    This game is driving home the fact we need a better option at to back-up at point. With a better distributor we’d be running away with this one. Another PG and another serviceable big man and we’d be much more dangerous.

  27. Brian Cronin

    He’s so adept at drawing fouls. I dunno, it’s confusing.

    In general, yeah, I agree, it’s silly. But when you don’t get the ball that much, it’s hard to do. And Gallo, see, set your feet!!

  28. marxster

    I’m pretty sure we’ll have to re-visit the Gallo/Randolph (or some other combination) for Melo. When we get there and Gallo has not shown more consistency, I’m ok to trade him.

  29. Jake S.

    I think they might think about trading Curry’s dead body and Randolph for a low-post banger. They can’t keep playing Stoudemire for 40 minutes a night.

  30. Brian Cronin

    how is everyone feeling about the extended shawne williams minutes?

    He looks better than Walker, as he does stuff even when not scoring himself. That said, they said that he’s taking Turiaf’s minutes. How does that work?

  31. Brian Cronin

    I’m pretty sure we’ll have to re-visit the Gallo/Randolph (or some other combination) for Melo. When we get there and Gallo has not shown more consistency, I’m ok to trade him.

    With the way the Knicks are playing, I wouldn’t trade for Melo right now period. If he wants to come here as a free agent, perhaps, but no trades.

  32. Z-man

    First quarter was one of the best I’ve seen us play.

    Amar’e lays back once he gets into foul trouble, which I guess is smart.

    Bayless and Johnson keeping the Raptors hanging around.

    Overall, good first half. Interestingly, the Raptors are 10 missed FTs from being tied with us.

  33. Robert Silverman

    Brian Cronin:
    He looks better than Walker, as he does stuff even when not scoring himself. That said, they said that he’s taking Turiaf’s minutes. How does that work?  

    Technically he’s taking the Chandler/Walker 1st wing off the bench mins. But since Chandler’s moved to replace Turiaf, one could say Williams is taking Ronny’s mins. It’s a bit convoluted, yes.

  34. Frank O.

    Greetings, gentlemen.
    I was watching the Giants and Skins and was like, why am I watching this shit when I can be watching the Knicks…
    Looks good, but seems like they should be better.

  35. nfr213

    watching an internet feed at work right now, laughing at the fact that Andy’s dad is doing the color commentary…

  36. Frank O.

    This is what’s so great about this team. They seem to be holding leads effortlessly. Seriously, they haven’t been down much in the past eight games.

  37. latke

    Jake S.: Curry

    speaking of eddy curry, based on these pictures I will never again even consider the notion that playing curry right now is a good idea. He looks like he’s dangerously close to like 400 pounds.

  38. Frank O.

    latke:
    speaking of eddy curry, based on these pictures I will never again even consider the notion that playing curry right now is a good idea.He looks like he’s dangerously close to like 400 pounds.  

    Wow. Enormous.

  39. marxster

    latke:
    speaking of eddy curry, based on these pictures I will never again even consider the notion that playing curry right now is a good idea.He looks like he’s dangerously close to like 400 pounds.  

    Woa…he does look like 400. It’s totally beyond me how a professional athlete who makes this much money can be this much out of shape. Appalling.

  40. Frank O.

    Jake S.: Chandler has assumed the Starks mantle of launching no-no-no-YES three pointers.  

    You know chandler’s improving from outside. I feel less concerned lately…
    Some weird shots from Amare today

  41. Frank O.

    Jake S.: I wonder if Mozgov sees any royalties from all the posters he’s generating.  

    Johnson is posterizing anyone the Knicks put on him.

  42. Frank O.

    I think the blake griffin comparison is appropriate in this way: Johnson is doing a lot of damage, like Griffin, but right now he’s the only Raptor really doing damaging.
    Bargnani isn’t doing much at all.
    If the Knicks can keep the other Raptors under some semblance of control, Raptors lose.

  43. Frank O.

    Raptors work their asses off, get several shots, can’t drop it and the Knicks get a transition score.

  44. Brian Cronin

    Who is that turnover on, technically? Gallo or Toney? It’s Toney’s fault, but is it technically on Gallo?

  45. Frank O.

    Brian Cronin: Who is that turnover on, technically? Gallo or Toney? It’s Toney’s fault, but is it technically on Gallo?  

    Gallo never had possession. I think it should be on TD

  46. Brian Cronin

    Terrible call by the refs. The guy is going up to the basket when he’s hit and it’s not in the act of shooting?!?!

  47. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    I may not be an expert on shooting mechanics, but it can’t be helpful that Chandler AND Amar’e both lean back when shooting from long-range.

    I mean, STAT, you’re 6’10”. How many players will be able to contest your jump shot?

  48. Brian Cronin

    You have to have possession to make a turnover, I think

    Gotcha. Yeah, that makes sense. Maybe someone should guard Bayless from behind the arc, maybe?

  49. Brian Cronin

    “I think Bayless wanted someone to cut to the basket” You mean his plan wasn’t to just throw the ball up in the air near the basket? Intriguing.

  50. domiknick

    With the way he’s shooting, maybe Williams should be taking minutes from Gallo. If he can shoot like this, aren’t they basically the same player?

  51. Brian Cronin

    “Amir Johnson has been a revelation.”

    Really? A big man has a good game against the Knicks and it is a “revelation”?

  52. Frank O.

    domiknick: With the way he’s shooting, maybe Williams should be taking minutes from Gallo.If he can shoot like this, aren’t they basically the same player?  

    No.

  53. Brian Cronin

    With the way he’s shooting, maybe Williams should be taking minutes from Gallo.

    His last two made shots were because of Gallo.

    No.

    That, too.

  54. Frank O.

    Brian Cronin:
    His last two made shots were because of Gallo.  

    Seriously. Gallo is doing a lot of nice little things right now.
    His extra passes have been key. His play has been unselfish. And he’s such a threat, that you need to respect it.
    Williams is still unknown and is getting some open looks.

  55. Brian Cronin

    I’d love to know how big of a dick Bayless is that everyone he plays with hates him. Do you think it’s one of those “thinks he’s better than he really is” deals?

  56. Brian Cronin

    Seriously. Gallo is doing a lot of nice little things right now.

    Yeah, I don’t see watching this game and getting from it, “Gallo should lose minutes.”

  57. Frank O.

    Brian Cronin:
    His last two made shots were because of Gallo.
    That, too.
      

    Gallo is +14 on the game. Four boards, five assists and six points, and +14.
    He’s also got a steal and no TOs.

  58. Frank O.

    Another seemingly effortless road win.
    Is it me, or am I being too positive, guys? I mean, you can see in this game that the Raptors had no chance with a one dimensional attack.
    The Knicks can hurt a team in so many ways. Inside, out, fast or slow pace, and on defense.
    We focus on the scoring, but their D has been stout in the fourth.

    Maybe I’m too positive, but this all seems pretty obvious to me. we will crush midling teams…

  59. Brian Cronin

    And this is not to say that I am not very pleased with how well Williams has played. I totally am. Even when he doesn’t score, he does more good things that Walker. Great faith in a player he drafted by Donnie Walsh.

  60. domiknick

    haha, ya you guys are right. I probably was too quick to suggest that he should “literally” take minutes away from Gallo.

    I’ve just been impressed with his play and his stroke from 3. Size-wise and shooting wise they seem similar, but yes, Gallo does probably bring a few more things to the table.

  61. Brian Cronin

    Another good thing about this game – “only” up seven and with Toronto getting the ball to start the fourth, D’Antoni went with Toney at the point. I liked that a lot. Gotta give Felton some rest.

  62. Spree8nyk8

    Don’t be too hard on Timmy, I think he’s getting a little bit better, and by the end of the season I think he’ll be much more reliable.

  63. Frank O.

    domiknick: haha, ya you guys are right.I probably was too quick to suggest that he should “literally” take minutes away from Gallo.I’ve just been impressed with his play and his stroke from 3.Size-wise and shooting wise they seem similar, but yes, Gallo does probably bring a few more things to the table.  

    Agreed. I’m impressed with Williams, too.

  64. marxster

    Better record than Indiana and Chicago now. Only 1 game behind Atlanta and Miami.

    I don’t think any of us would have predicted that at the beginning of the season.

  65. Frank O.

    Spree8nyk8: Don’t be too hard on Timmy, I think he’s getting a little bit better, and by the end of the season I think he’ll be much more reliable.  

    I agree wholeheartedly.
    Give him a little time. He is a rook.

  66. Spree8nyk8

    marxster: Better record than Indiana and Chicago now. Only 1 game behind Atlanta and Miami.
    I don’t think any of us would have predicted that at the beginning of the season.  

    I did

  67. Frank O.

    When I read today that Hahn was saying this was a dangerous game for the Knicks, I was like, that’s just crap.
    I just think the sports writers are still reflexively waiting for a break down.
    I like Hahn, generally. He’ll come around. He had a nice story on Amare.
    He’ll come around.
    What I’m looking forward to is the Knicks clashing with some good teams this month. I want to see if they can steal some wins.
    they nearly stole some wins from good teams early. Now with their confidence high, the team more together and the shots dropping, I give them a good chance against some of the elite teams.
    If we can take a little less than half of those games, I’m happy.

  68. Mulligan

    Definitely feeling very good about the team and our prospects for the season. They’re obviously building good chemistry with each other and hopefully as the season progresses the young guys (Randolph, Gallo, Moz, Toney & Fields) will continue to improve, Azu will give us more depth and Eddy Curry will magically turn into… Andre Iguodala?

  69. Frank O.

    Mulligan: Definitely feeling very good about the team and our prospects for the season. They’re obviously building good chemistry with each other and hopefully as the season progresses the young guys (Randolph, Gallo, Moz, Toney & Fields) will continue to improve, Azu will give us more depth and Eddy Curry will magically turn into… Andre Iguodala?  

    Good point. This is a very young team. The sky’s the limit

  70. rohank

    From the first half highlights, it seems like the Knicks had a ton of amazing ball movement. I don’t think i’ve seen a knick team play like that EVER (i started watching in spring 1997).

    I was actually out playing basketball during this game, but I was telling my buddies – hey, idc if it’s toronto, it’s been far too long that I haven’t seen a knick team blow out a bad team. About time!

    When should we expect calls for Amare for MVP, Fields for ROY, and Chandler for Most Improved? Don’t the voters for all those awards think about WINNING teams? I dont think anyone can argue Blake or Wall over Fields in that regard……

  71. Spree8nyk8

    Frank O.:
    It’s all about firsties with you, isn’t it. :)  

    No, I’ll tell you this is the truth I swear to god. There are a ton of times where I don’t speak my mind because I know that 99% of the people on this board will shoot it down so I just don’t bother. But early on when people were split between whether or not this team would either miss the playoffs or grab the 8th seed I always thought they were better than both of those. In my heart I always felt like they were a 5th or 6th seed. I felt like some teams from last year took steps backwards and I felt like the Knicks made huge strides forwards. And when most people on this board were hoping the Knicks would win 40 games and make the playoffs, my thoughts have always been 50 wins. And I think they can get it.

  72. Aharon

    Amar’e averaging 34 and 12.5 the last four games. Fairly impressive. I noticed in the box score that he picked up a technical. What was it for?

  73. rohank

    Oh one more thing to add to my previous post:

    I can see that everyone’s drinking the kool-aid on williams, but I for one think that his gaudy shooting %ages are bound to come back to earth at some point.

    As an aside – Giants have lots of fun with 5 TOs by the redskins. Now if only the Jets can beat the Pats tmrw night for a perfect weekend.

  74. Mulligan

    I’d love to hear folks’ thoughts on realistic options for improving the roster with Curry’s contract. Seems to me we could use depth at the 1 & 5, although I’m not sure how to get there. Maybe if Portland’s season really goes down the drain, they’d be willing to trade Camby for Curry and something else? A 2nd round pick? Then AR could really learn how it’s done. Seems unlikely though.

    Or, this wouldn’t be great for the cap, but Curry for Verajao & Sessions? I don’t think Cleveland would do that, but that would bolster the frontcourt and the backcourt.

  75. Mulligan

    Aharon: Amar’e averaging 34 and 12.5 the last four games. Fairly impressive. I noticed in the box score that he picked up a technical. What was it for?  

    He argued a non-call after Amir Johnson held him down while he went up for a put-back dunk, if I remember correctly.

  76. Spree8nyk8

    I don’t think they can get away from Carmelo, basketball enthusiasts would love to see them sure up where they are weakest, but the NY media would crucify them for making any move that cancels out Carmelo. I think if they can trade for Carmelo they can pick up a decent 5 in the off season with the MLE.

  77. cgreene

    Well if it comes down to a trade for Melo why not try and get Denver to include Nene in the deal to sure up the 5 spot?

    Would something like Gallo, Curry, Douglas, Moz and the 2014 pick for Melo and Nene work $ wise? Probably have to include Landry or Wilson in there though. That would hurt.

  78. Mulligan

    Yeah, I hear that. If we did go after Melo, would we still be able to keep Chandler or do we have to renounce him?

  79. Robert Silverman

    At this point, Fields would be the centerpiece of any Melo trade, not just a throw in. I’m sticking to my guns — either he’s a FA or no trade

  80. cgreene

    Aharon: We can’t get Nene also- he and Carmelo make a combined 28 million.  

    I believe we are still $3M under cap. So we would only have to get to about $22M-$23M to make it work. Not that we can but I think those are the facts.

  81. ltmurray

    No Melo!! Who needs him?? The Knicks have the 3rd highest-scoring offense in the league, and their defense down the stretch has been much improved! Melo is a notoriously weak defender. Yes he’s a top 10 player, and he can score from anywhere on the court, but right now there’s no way I’m willing to give up three or even two of New York’s rotation players for him.

    I feel like I must be missing something because I know a lot of Knicks fans who are ready to ship off Fields, Gallo, Chandler, and AR for this guy. I think the best part about those players is how YOUNG they are. We’ve seen how much better Chandler has been this year, and Gallo has at the very least improved his quickness. I say we hang on to these guys and let them develop, because right now it’s not even costing us wins!

    A tough stretch against some plus-.500 teams could change my mind, but right now I’m quite content with this roster.

  82. Spree8nyk8

    You can’t trade all of those guys for him, but you have to trade Gallo (same position), and one of those other guys. I doubt it’s Chandler and I know it’s not fields. They won’t give up that much to get someone they could potentially get as a free agent.

    I think it’s Curry/Gallo/ and 1 of either Randolph/Douglas/Azu that’s it, if it’s any higher than that then they wait and see. Problem with waiting and seeing though is that idk if they can pick up Melo in the offseason and find a 5. And I don’t see how they can add a 5 now and then add Melo. But I do think a second star on this team is going to be necessary.

  83. cgreene

    Let me clarify my position. Not saying they should. I do not think they should give up rotation players for Melo. I would do Curry and Gallo and that’s it. I was saying IF they were going to that they should try and get Nene as well which seems difficult. I am pretty against any trades except minimal stuff to secure depth at C and PG for at least another month or so when we have gone through a tough part of the schedule.

    I love this team as is. Fun, young, great chemistry etc.

  84. d-mar

    D’Antoni made an interesting comment in the post game, when asked about Toronto cutting the lead to 5, he said earlier in the season he had “the wrong guys” on the floor when other teams made runs and it cost them. We’ve seen that the “right guys” are Felton and Amare, and the reason that we do not blow games in the 4th quarter is those 2. Particularly Stat, who just keeps rising to the occasion when we need him most.

  85. ltmurray

    I’m totally on board for getting another center, depending on whether or not Turiaf can come back and stay healthy (and right now, that’s a huge question mark).

    I was worried about Bargnani coming into this game because the Knicks have had trouble with scoring big men, but Amir Johnson ended up being the threat down low.

    Whatever. I’m nitpicking. It feels great to nitpick instead of pointing out obvious flaws!

    This team rocks. All I wanted coming into this season was a playoff berth. Hell, last month I’d take getting swept by the Celtics in the 1st round (although the Knicks tend to play pretty tough against Boston).

    But now we’re seeing what these guys are capable of, and it’s pretty sweet. I’m just gonna have to try real hard not to raise my expectations, because that’s when we Knick fans get burned!

  86. Spree8nyk8

    Another thing with Stat that I’ve seen particularly promising is that early on in the season he seemed to push to hard to get himself going and then he would try to get others going, now he seems to do the opposite, he takes easy shots early and gives it up to his teammates and only presses it when it seems like the team needs it. Much better recipe with much better results. He also seems to be focusing a bit more on rebounding early on especially when he’s getting good help from his teammates on the offensive end. Felton definitely has a lot to do with it, as now all of stats looks seem effortless. When he gets the ball too far out it’s almost always 2 dribbles and a pull up (which he nails seemingly everytime) or a dribble or two and a pass. He never seems to take it himself all the way to the hole anymore which is why he’s cut back the turnovers.

  87. Jake S.

    How about Randolph and Curry’s expiring deal for Samuel Dalembert? His contract is also expiring, so they can still pursue Melo in the off-season if the experiment doesn’t pan out.

  88. Spree8nyk8

    ltmurray: I’m just gonna have to try real hard not to raise my expectations, because that’s when we Knick fans get burned!  

    This right here is the mindset I’d like to see us get rid of. When you win 7 straight on the road and 9/10 overall RAISE YOUR EXPECTATIONS. There is nothing wrong with not making it to your highest goal. There is however something wrong with lowballing your expectations so that you make your goals. This is why I wasn’t wanting to root for them to win 40 games. Yeah 40 games can get you in the playoffs, but that’s it. Going to the playoffs and not winning any playoff games is kinda the same as finishing 9th.

    Yes, we have been burned in the past, but are you really going to feel better if you root for them to simply “make the playoffs” and they make it and do nothing once they arrive compared to if you root for them to get a 4th or 5th seed and then them getting a 6-8 seed? I don’t think so….

  89. Spree8nyk8

    woohoo Alan Hahn retweeted me! lolz

    alanhahn

    A conversation for next week: vs DEN, BOS and MIA. RT @spree8nyk8: @alanhahn Do you think STAT is a factor in the MVP conversation?

  90. Jake S.

    I’m with you Spree, but the bottom line is that they still haven’t beaten ANYONE yet. Even the Hornets were playing with David West. Unless they find another big man to clog up the lane, I don’t see how they can be anything more than first round fodder for the Orlandos, Bostons and Miamis of the world.

  91. massive

    We beat the hell out of Chicago. Even though Kyle Korver got hot at the end, we were slapping them around for a good 43-44 minutes.

  92. Robert Silverman

    This is the best Knick team since the Camby-era squad that got bounced in the summer of ’01, and a fun unit to watch, too

  93. Jake S.

    No fretting, just brainstorming…It’s been a long time since we’ve had the cap space to even have these kinds of conversations.

  94. Spree8nyk8

    Jake S.: I’m with you Spree, but the bottom line is that they still haven’t beaten ANYONE yet. Even the Hornets were playing with David West. Unless they find another big man to clog up the lane, I don’t see how they can be anything more than first round fodder for the Orlandos, Bostons and Miamis of the world.  

    I agree, as I said before I have no problem adding a five, if we can add a solid 5 by all means I say go for it. What I’m saying is that if they do this, and it removes them from being able to add Carmelo then it had damn sure better work, because the media will never forgive it. Right now with this teams progression I think it’s a lock that Melo comes next season if they don’t add him this season. I just really think that if there is a reasonable deal for Melo you have to do it. You simply cannot pass there. It may end up hurting us for this offseason. But in the long run it makes us much better. If we add Melo getting a 5 can be our primary goal for next season. I mean with the way Felton is playing right now, if this is going to be the norm for him then we aren’t going after Paul in 2 years. His knee is bad and won’t be worth the risk if Felton is playing as well as he’s playing, so you add Melo, creating a minor big 3 with felton/stat/melo and tweak what you need to tweak. I think we can get into contention from there vs a lower half playoff team. If we add a nonstar 5 idk if that leads us to becoming a contender and that is the only reason i’d be against it.

  95. Spree8nyk8

    This is kinda funny but last week when the Knicks had their five game winning streak going they were only like 32% on the hollinger playoff odds with a .1% chance of making the finals and 0% chance of winning the title.

    As of today they are 76% to make the playoffs, 2.1% to make the finals and .4% to win the NBA title lol. So they are roughly 210% better from an odds standpoint lol.

  96. Spree8nyk8

    Damn sorry to repost but cleveland who was just in the 8th seed a couple games ago and is currently 1 game outside the playoffs is only getting a .8% chance of reaching the playoffs lol.

  97. ltmurray

    Spree8nyk8: Right now with this teams progression I think it’s a lock that Melo comes next season if they don’t add him this season..  (Quote)

    Obviously I’d much rather add Melo for nothing in the offseason, but won’t the Nuggets just trade him somewhere by the deadline so they get SOMETHING out of it? Or can Melo just refuse to sign an extension and be a FA this summer anyway?

  98. Frank O.

    I am against any trades right now. I love the chemistry of this team and some stability is important right now.
    I think you’re all too ready to give up on Mosgov. He’s a rookie and he struggles, but he shows signs of what he can be. His foul issue is getting better. He plays sound defense from moment to moment and shows signs of how good he could be. He’s learning a new system, league and language. I think all this Mos-bashing is uncool, frankly.
    He’s 20 games into a career.
    I think the O is right where it needs to be. And it is going to get better with Azu coming back.
    The defense is good when it needs to be. In the fourth they shut down the Raptors.
    Also, everyone keeps harping on the schedule, but they haven’t lost in quite a while. I mean, what does this team have to do to make people happy?
    They’re 9-1 over the last 10 and barely lost that one game.
    They’re one of the best Os in basketball and playing a high possession game their defense seems pretty good.
    They are one of the top shot-blocking and steals teams in basketball…
    I just think all this package so and so for a trade here or there just makes no sense. I mean, I’m not sure Carmello arrives and makes this team much better because we’d have to give up some strong role players to get him. And remember also that we would be giving up some young players who already are productive.
    They would be crazy to trade Fields or Gallo in my view, and WC has become one of the best sixth men in the league…

  99. Spree8nyk8

    ltmurray:
    Obviously I’d much rather add Melo for nothing in the offseason, but won’t the Nuggets just trade him somewhere by the deadline so they get SOMETHING out of it? Or can Melo just refuse to sign an extension and be a FA this summer anyway?  

    They can trade him whether he signs the extension or not. Finding a team that will accept a trade without requiring him to sign the extension is the tough part. It’ll be interesting to see how it pans out. I kinda hope that something happens with Melo before the deadline though because it will allow the knicks to know the direction they are going in. They either get him for themselves or he sign and trades somewhere else and then the Knicks absolutely start shopping for the best available 5.

  100. Jake S.

    I agree they shouldn’t blow up the team, but if they can trade Gallo, Randolph, Curry and a 2014 first round pick for Carmelo, I think they have to do it. They’d be losing one rotation player and gaining another. They can always add a big in the off-season with their mid-level exception (assuming the new collective bargaining agreement doesn’t contain a hard cap).

  101. André

    IMO, the perfect all star combo is Allen, Pierce and Garnett. So, I disagree when people say Mello would disrupt the team chemistry. I think he would play perfectly de high post, like Pierce does, and Amare would play the same role Garnett plays.

  102. Spree8nyk8

    Frank O.: I am against any trades right now. I love the chemistry of this team and some stability is important right now.

    They’re 9-1 over the last 10 and barely lost that one game.
      

    I am the quintessential optimist for this team, but trading Gallo for Carmelo makes a ton of sense and Gallo is my favorite player on the team. Trust me if we can keep Gallo I wanna keep him. I just don’t really know how we can. But the reason it makes sense is because that 1 loss we had you said we barely lost but it’s wrong, ATL pretty much killed us that game and that was with Joe Johnson having a pathetic game. Some of the better teams in the league are going to beat us badly and the Knicks are going to need another star player. Replacing Gallo with a 24 ppg scorer provides a huge lift. Now if Melo goes elsewhere I’m not going to lose any sleep keeping this team and shopping for a good five. But you can’t pass on a player of Melo’s stature that actually wants to come to NY.

  103. NYK Ewing

    Melo essentially has a no-trade clause because he doesn’t have to sign any extension. Although, there was an ESPN article saying to not count out a team trading without a contract extension guarantee to pad their playoff chances. If that’s the case we wouldn’t sign him. Right now there’s not a very good chance he’s traded, and best case scenario he doesn’t sign an extension and we get him in the offseason. If he is traded, I really hope its for Fields-Curry-Gallo, not Fields-Curry-Chandler. There’s a chance they ask for more, at which case I’d be scared if other teams are offering better deals. I’ve always been a proponent of the sign-at-all-costs mentality, but the emergence of Fields puts it into question.

  104. Spree8nyk8

    Jake S.: They can always add a big in the off-season with their mid-level exception (assuming the new collective bargaining agreement doesn’t contain a hard cap).  

    If the new CBA has a hard cap then Lebron is never getting his ring. Let alone rings.

  105. Spree8nyk8

    I’ll say it again….there is absolutely NO WAY LANDRY FIELDS ENDS UP IN A TRADE PACKAGE. ZERO, put it out of your head….

  106. Spree8nyk8

    You know, this maybe me drinking the Kool aid but imo if you have Felton, Fields, Melo and Stat, I really don’t know if the 5 is gonna matter that much. I mean I just really don’t think it does.

  107. SeeWhyDee77

    I was at work today so I didn’t get to see the game..but I just peeped at the box score. 3 things:
    1. I am not at all comfortable with Williams getting the minutes he’s getting. But on the other hand, they say ur only as good as ur last game and he’s been producing with the minutes he’s given so I really shouldn’t complain. I just hopes he keeps it up. The guy has a boatload of talent..as a matter of fact the only thing that separates him and AR is defense and rebounding. And the fact that Williams is a better shooter..or he takes better, more in rhythm shots than AR.
    2. Stat’s line was bananas..but we allow too many players to have better than usual rebounding games against us. Kevin Love’s great..but he had 2 many boards. The last time we played TOR Evans had 2 many boards. Pierce had 14 I think in the Boston game and today AMIR JOHNSON had 16 boards….and 22 points??? Yea..that needs to get fixed.
    3. I like Chandler off the bench..but him playing the 4 with Stat at the 5 looks surprisingly awesome..consistently. I know Stat hates playin the 5, but he may have to do so in order for us to win…at least until Turiaf is healthy and Mosgov is more consistent.
    All in all..even though it was against TOR, great game for the team. People can talk all they want in other media outlets about the Knicks beating up on sub par comp..but all it takes is confidence. An no one can say that the team’s confidence isn’t sky high with this recent run of good ball especially with Rooster still battling inconsistency and Turiaf and Azu hurt. I’ve waffled alot on the whole Melo issue…some days I want him on the team mainly becuz Chandler has been makin it easier to see a trade for Melo, and we do need another scorer. Most other days I want an all star PG instead..which is always the most logical choice when u already have an all star player on your team. Runnin out of space..to be continued..

  108. SeeWhyDee77

    But, small sample aside, do we not already have a budding all star at the point? Sure, he’s no CP3 or Deron Williams, but has Felton NOT been what we need at the 1? I’m starting to picture Felton playin an easier, even more efficient game out there with Stat and Melo out there with him. Now all of a sudden..I am 100% for makin that Melo move. It may cost us AR’s potential, Curry’s contract and Chandler’s newfound consistency…but as long as we’re able to keep Rooster, Turiaf, Felton, Moz, and Fields..i’m fine with that. I think with the way Chandler’s been playin, Denver should be tickled to get young talent in AR and Chandler along with cap room. They won’t rebuild at all especially if they move Billups for a pick or other useful talent..which i’m sure they can do.

  109. d-mar

    After flipping channels and watching the Nets get their doors blown off at home by Boston and move to a record of 6-15, I reflected back on the LeBron sweepstakes. Even AFTER we got Stat, many of the so-called experts were of the opinion that NJ was the more attractive destination and had a brighter future because of their “talent level”, namely Lopez, Harris and Favors, and all of their draft picks. And of course their dynamic owner Prokhorov and his buddy Jay Z would be enormous lures for any FA. And then during the Melo discussions, we still heard that only the Nets had the “assets” to land him.

    I guess that conversation’s changed a little over the last few weeks!

  110. Jake S.

    You mean a center who can’t grab more than 7 rebounds a game or shoot higher than 45% from the field isn’t a franchise cornerstone? Who’d have thought?

  111. SeeWhyDee77

    SeeWhyDee77: …but as long as we’re able to keep Rooster, Turiaf, Felton, Moz, and Fields..i’m fine with that. do.  

    I forgot to add Douglas in that list..but in all likelihood we’d problee hafta lose him..but Wlsh better make damn sure he gets a 1st in return!!!

  112. Z

    Now let’s see if we can win some home games!

    Minnesota tomorrow, and the Raptors again on Wednesday. (Let’s see if we found answers for Kevin Love and Amir Johnson, respectively).

  113. latke

    It seems that the spurs have given up on Tiago Splitter already — he’s had a few DNP CDs and hasn’t played much besides (12MPG). How cheaply might he come?

  114. BigBlueAL

    Apparently the Knicks are looking around the NBA for a backup PG and are willing to trade Bill Walker for it, per Howard Beck on Twitter.

  115. rama

    Z-man: If it’ all the same to you, Donnie, I’d like to watch these guys for a while.  

    Amen!

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=gallida01&y1=2011&p2=anthoca01&y2=2006

    In their third seasons, Gallo’s and Melo’s numbers are very close …except that Melo took more shots and turned the ball over a lot more. (Considering this is really only Gallo’s second full season, that’s even more remarkable.)

    Yeah, let’s trade Gallo and AR and Douglas and Fields and Curry for Melo. Let’s cap ourselves out so we have trouble adding another great player after that.

    Fantastic. The Isaiah Thomas school of GMing. Did you people not learn anything from the last six years!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! (A little Ted shout-out, there) Our offense is coming together wonderfully, and Melo is a ballstopper who is indifferent defensively – and he’s going to cost a team something like 20 MILLION DOLLARS NEXT YEAR.

    Or, we could let Gallo shoot more, score as many points, and pay him…1/6 of that. Hmmm….what to do, what to do….

  116. rama

    BigBlueAL: Apparently the Knicks are looking around the NBA for a backup PG and are willing to trade Bill Walker for it, per Howard Beck on Twitter.  

    Good. We need a backup PG and a top 5. Not sure we can find a top 5, but that’s really the only serious weakness this team has. Especially once Buke is back.

  117. d-mar

    Just took a look at the part of the schedule we’ve all been dreading and obviously teams like Miami and Boston will be hard to beat, but Denver, Chicago, even OKC, there’s no reason we can’t win those games if we keep playing like we do. Plus the good news is if we take care of business this week, we’ll have a nice over .500 cushion to work with and even a few home losses against top teams won’t kill us.

    Oh, forgot one thing – FIRE D”ANTONI!

  118. ltmurray

    Spree, I hope you’re right about the Knicks holding on to Fields at all costs, but what do you (or anyone else) think they should offer the Nuggets instead?

    And they’ll have to give up ANOTHER player to get the 1st round draft pick that Denver wants (sounds like a lot of people want AR to be that guy). Right?

  119. Z-man

    UK Knick from P&T posted re: Alan Hahn tweet: ‘Loyal Fixer tells me his girlfriend came up with a new term after Amar’e dunked on Amir Johnson: “He got ‘Stoudemized.’

    Ha!

  120. SeeWhyDee77

    Spree8nyk8: I’ll say it again….there is absolutely NO WAY LANDRY FIELDS ENDS UP IN A TRADE PACKAGE.ZERO, put it out of your head….  

    I agree..200%..Fields stays-without question. I don’t care how potent a Stat/Melo combo might be on offense. If Denver won’t accept AR, Chandler and Curry..then let him rot in Denver lol. Or wherever he chooses to go if he doesn’t land in NY. No, Fields isn’t nearly as good as Melo…but once he’s up to speed on defense-he’s our let’s say Shane Battier..only better on offense. He almost always makes the right play and plays “the right way” 100% of the time. In my mind he’s right behind Stat and Felton , for obvious reasons, in terms of importance. And he’s a 2nd rounder, which means we will have him for cheap FOR YEARS. No way we move Fields for Melo. AR, Chandler and Curry or nothing. I may be for adding Melo, but i’m not stupid..i’m not gonna say throw asset after asset at Denver until they bite. And honestly, with NJ’s reluctance to include Lopez, AR-Chandler-Curry is problee the most attractive LOGICAL package they will get for Melo-especially with the season Chandler’s having. Who’s gonna trade practically half they team for Melo? Besides, out West they’re not good enough to get past the Lakers, Thunder, Mavs or Spurs. With the Clips bein unproven, the Suns in free-fall, and the health of Yao Ming and Brandon Roy in question-Denver can make the aforementioned deal with NY, move Billups, and rebuild on the fly while still competing for a playoff spot. They do still have a great coach and a lineup of Nene, AR, Chandler, Smith and Lawson-with whatever they get for Billups is nothing to sneeze at. Especially if Karl turns them into a faster pace team ala PHO-GS-NY. If they’re gonna do it NOW’s the season to do so considering the top of the west and the other questions on other teams out there…

  121. Spree8nyk8

    The bottom line with Melo is that the longer they wait and if the Knicks keep getting stronger the asking price has to go down. Because the Knicks are becoming more and more attractive. The argument that if he wants to win he goes somewhere else other than NY is now very flawed. So if they chose to not move him they’ll get NOTHING, because I don’t see him signing when he can choose an intact Knicks team to go to.

    The biggest plus for trading for Melo rather than waiting for him is that unless they do away with the MLE (which I don’t see them doing because of what it would do to teams that are capped out) we could use an MLE to get a very good 5 in the offseason if we traded for Melo, if we trade for a 5 now, I don’t think we can add him and if we wait then we’ll have money for Melo but no MLE. So it does behoove us to make a trade for him (as long as it’s the right trade). And unless they want to let him walk for nothing it behooves them as well.

    Now if there is a great center entering free agency at the end of the season maybe that is a great way to go too. I’m just not up on what 5’s are coming available.

    Idk, I’m super torn honestly. I love the roster as it is. I just don’t think it’s going to turn into a championship contender as is. I think that you need two legit stars right now. So I hate to see ANYONE on this team leave. But I also think it must be done.

  122. Z-man

    Surprised to see the lack of love for Gallo, when he really had a good all-around game. If the team is to be an intelligent, multi-dimensional team, there are times when it is best for Gallo to do other things, which he did well today. Chandler seems to have an edge vs. Toronto, so it was his game to shine. Gallo played good D, got some boards and assists, which is OK. When teams get tired of Amar’e pulverizing them inside and Chandler 3-ing and slashing them to pieces, and more O is needed, he will step up.

    This team is the smartest team we have had on the floor in a lo-o-o-o-o-ng time. Gallo is definitely a part of that, and doesn’t have to force things to become the player some want him to be. I have been very OK with his development, especially at age 22 (coupla months younger than Fields, e.g.) Interestingly, Fields and Gallo both had PER of exactly 15.0 coming into today’s game! Fields, Gallo, and Chandler, what a trio of young talent!

    BTW, some have previously labeled WC as having a low b-ball IQ but he seems to be playing significantly smarter every year.

  123. SeeWhyDee77

    SN..when I say Phoenix in free-fall..I am aware of their recent streak of good games. But IMO, they are clearly not a serious threat to anybody out West like they were with Stoudemire. My whole point is the West has all of a sudden lost its parity , for lack of a better term. With the injuries (Portland, Houston), and bad coaching with good talent (Clips) and the step backwards that Phoenix has taken, in addition to NO problee not bein as good as we thought they were- teams like Memphis and GS can sneak into the postseason and Denver can still get in without Melo and Billups…provided they make the right trade. And who knows? Maybe they move Melo for AR-Chandler-Curry and Karl re-awakens Curry somewhat and taps into AR’s potential. Either way it’s young talent and cap room for them which is a win-win. If this were another season I could see Denver not doing it, but the stars are aligned for them to make these moves.

  124. Spree8nyk8

    Z-man: Surprised to see the lack of love for Gallo,.  

    He’s my fav player period. I don’t wanna see him traded. But if it has to be it has to be. And for Melo, i think it has to be.

  125. Brian Cronin

    I think Chandler is a smart defender, but not so much on offense (although he has clearly been playing a lot smarter during the recent winning streak. A lot smarter). I mean, at the end of the day, it almost never matters, really. Amar’e, for instance, doesn’t have great offensive b-ball IQ, but he is such a physical beast that it really doesn’t matter. Just don’t give him the ball in a position where he needs to think. Just let him react and he will destroy the defenders.

    Fields, Felton, Gallo and Turiaf all seem like high overall b-ball IQs to me (although Gallo and Felton are each prone to occasional “huh?!?” decisions), though, so I totally agree that this Knick team is overall a smart one (at least the majority of the guys who play the majority of the minutes). It’s not like the days when the Knicks had, like, David Lee and that was it for b-ball IQ.

  126. Brian Cronin

    At one point, the Knicks had Crawford, Curry and Randolph all playing major minutes. Talk about a lack of b-ball IQ!

  127. SeeWhyDee77

    BTW..for shits and giggles..I ran AR-Chandler-Curry for Melo thru ESPN’s trade machine and NY’s wins increased by 4 and Denver’s wins decreased by 3. So I put together a Billups headlined package to another team. Well attempted to only to be thwarted by the date FA’s can be traded. But cap-wise they can send Billups, Afflalo and Ely to the Lakers (I know) for Artest, Blake and Vujacic. The Lakers are problee gonna win it all again this year anyway and then Phil will call it quits. Or…maybe Bynum, Blake and Vujacic to Denver for Billups, Birdman and Afflalo? I don’t know..we’ll see once the moratorium is removed. But my point is they can make moves and still make the playoffs this season.

  128. hoolahoop

    Missed the game today, but I am giddy.
    NO TRADES RIGHT NOW! NONE.
    It the Knicks play well for the remainder of the season, forget about Melo. Let’s get the best 5 and 2 we can. This isn’t baseball where the more star players you have the better it is. Team chemistry and team balance are more important. Melo will make Amare worse.

  129. Spree8nyk8

    Lol this is my best twitter day ever lol, now Landry Fields just tweeted me because of Ronny’s earlier tweet lol.

    Ronny’s tweet
    Hahahahahahaha! Hahahahahaah!!! Man! Andy (Physio…) Gave us some crazy Riddles! RT @landryfields: Great win tonight, sir @RonnyTuriaf14, a man is on a plane, eats his meal and falls asleep, what happened?? Hmm? RIDDLE ME THAT!!

    My tweet to ronny
    spree8nyk8

    @RonnyTuriaf14 was there an answer to that riddle?

    Ronny’s retweet
    RonnyTuriaf14

    Yo @landryfields please talk to him! Explain it! Break it down ha ha RT @spree8nyk8: @RonnyTuriaf14 was there an answer to that riddle?

    Landry’s tweet

    Landry Fields landryfields

    @spree8nyk8 the answer is whatever you want it to be!

    My response
    spree8nyk8 spree8nyk8

    @landryfields Thanks man, I was hoping for some witty Stanford answer :) but I guess that’ll have to do. Great game today!

  130. Z-man

    Brian Cronin: I think Chandler is a smart defender, but not so much on offense (although he has clearly been playing a lot smarter during the recent winning streak. A lot smarter). I mean, at the end of the day, it almost never matters, really. Amar’e, for instance, doesn’t have great offensive b-ball IQ, but he is such a physical beast that it really doesn’t matter. Just don’t give him the ball in a position where he needs to think. Just let him react and he will destroy the defenders.
      

    I didn’t mean to imply that Chandler was Bob Cousy, only that he is learning how to play within himself, to attack the rim, to not settle for the 3 just because it’s there, to sense mismatches, etc.

    As for Amar’e, I have been very impressed by some adjustments he has made, both in game and across games. He seems to have adjusted to the initial way he was being defended and is passing more vs. overplays, hence his better assist numbers, increased TS% and lower turnovers since early on. He has also done a good job of reckoning with foul issues as they arise, like today, after he got 2 he ratched back on the defensive aggressiveness (at the expense of some easy buckets for the Raps) until later when it was needed most. I am sensing that he is a pretty good passer when he wants/has to be, and a very good situational defender. Frankly, I’ve pleasantly surprised with his b-ball IQ, especially after the frighteningly stupid-looking performances he had early on. He also seems to understand how important it is for him to set a focus/work-ethic example for his teammates. The guy is in redonculous shape, seems to be all business in practice, and works on his game after practice, before games, etc. To me, that is part of the winning mentality that comprises b-ball IQ.

  131. Spree8nyk8

    yeah man it’s kinda funny because I’ve tweeted lots of people before and I never get a response, and today all three of those guys answered back. Pretty awesome. Oh, I have a funny knicks story that kinda falls in line with this.

    I live in Charlotte and one of my other friends is a big Knicks fan and we went to the game and were just gonna buy scalper tickets because here you can get great deals from scalpers. So this one guy hits us up and says “hey I got 2 front row seats, they are my season tick seats but for todays game I have floor seats, you can have them for 60″. So we buy them and they are the best seats I’ve ever had, front row on the sideline at that corner.

    The Knicks were going away from us in the second quarter and when the Knicks went down the court Chris Childs threw a behind the back pass to Marcus Camby and Camby got a nice dunk out of it. When they came back up the court the Charlotte crowd was of course silent (knicks were killing them), and I yelled out “nice pass Chris!”. And this friggin Chris Childs turns around and says “THANKS!” And I was just sitting there all Jaw dropped like OMG. And for the rest of the game we kept trying to get chris to shoot 3’s even though the knicks were up by like 30. And in the fourth when we were still doing it he started laughing and gave us the Shhhh sign. Was my favorite in person moment as a fan :)

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