Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Monday, September 22, 2014

2011 Game Thread: Knicks @ Pistons

For your game thoughts.

198 comments on “2011 Game Thread: Knicks @ Pistons

  1. jon abbey

    Friday night: lost our last seven.
    under .500 team: 1-4 since Melo trade.

    break those trends, boys!

  2. d-mar

    In a weird way, I’m glad we’re playing them on a back to back. Gives us less time to think about how bad the Pistons are and just take care of business. (although odds are we’ll see the 1-12 TD tonight)

  3. KnickInSeattle

    Tayshaun’s gonna have the bunny!

    omg, these Detroit announcers are annoying.

    Sigh.

  4. cgreene

    Gonna have to dig this one out. Second night of back to back. On the road. Chauncey looks slow.

  5. Jake S.

    I’m checking out. This has all the makings for an evening of aggravation. I can watch only so many crappy Power Forwards set up a lay-up line on the Knicks’ D.

  6. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    I would have sold the farm and kept the cap space for 60 losses and a shot at Kyrie Irving.

  7. BigBlueAL

    D’Antoni looks like he is going to have a heart attack with how pissed he is tonight.

  8. TheXman

    how many turnovers does amare have? chauncey still sucking, maybe he belongs on the pistons still. This could be another cavs/pacers games.

  9. Robert Silverman

    For those who care – Gallo at the half: 9 points, 4 rebounds in 8 mins. 2-4 from the field

  10. art vandelay

    wow…I have only been watching 15 minutes but they look very lethargic…kinda like against Cleveland, Indiana and every other below .500 team they have faced since the trade!

  11. max fisher-cohen

    billups looking pretty crappy. The defense has been pretty good though IMO. Pistons have made a good number of defended shots. Turnovers are a problem.

  12. BigBlueAL

    max fisher-cohen: billups looking pretty crappy. The defense has been pretty good though IMO. Pistons have made a good number of defended shots. Turnovers are a problem.  

    Pistons shot 56% in the 1st half. The defense has sucked. For every contested shot there were 3 wide-open jumpers or layups.

  13. d-mar

    Clyde’s picking the tunes tonight, maybe an appropriate one for the Knicks would be “It’s the Same Old Song”

  14. Frank O.

    Again, scoring is not the problem.
    They’re d is making a shit scoring team look like world beaters…
    Frustrating to see them playing to the level of their opposition.
    Where is the leadership?

  15. KnickFanInCelticLand

    There are a lot of people being very tough on Chauncy here tonight. Lest we forget, he is working his way back from a serious injury, Deep quad injuries are prone to slow healing hematomas which can calcify. Such an injury takes one “off his game” by affecting his mobility. It is going to take awhile for him to get “back in the zone.”.

  16. art vandelay

    Anyone feel that Amare has sort of been less of a leader since melo came onboard…not as vocal…more reserved….maybe I am reading too much into things…but he were lauding him for changing the entire team attitude earlier with so many young players onboard but now he seems to have receded into the background.

  17. Nick C.

    Roger Mason knocked down a few shots and Landry had a nice run early otherwise the Villanueva turn around one footed three with the shot clock running down pretty much sums it up.

  18. art vandelay

    I agree….the pleasure of watching the knicks has completely been sucked away in these games.

  19. cgreene

    How many times is Billups going to pass to Jeffries in traffic before he realizes that Jeffries doesn’t do traffic.

  20. TheXman

    how many times does chauncey make a bad pass in traffic, does he still think he’s on the pistons? it’s just getting laughable

  21. art vandelay

    He can[t move out there….finally dantoni recognized that and put TD in…TD needs to run the point….he has been better at it of late…chauncey should just be spotting up…not even sure if he can defend at this point.

  22. Robert Silverman

    art vandelay: He can[t move out there….finally dantoni recognized that and put TD in…TD needs to run the point….he has been better at it of late…chauncey should just be spotting up…not even sure if he can defend at this point.  

    To be fair, 2nd night of a back-to-back is going to be tough when coming back from an injury like Billups had/has

  23. Doug

    Robert Silverman: Griffin-esque dunk by Stat!  

    I don’t know if he even touched the rim.

    Meanwhile, Chauncey gets a pretty good steal. He knows Tayshaun Prince too well.

  24. Robert Silverman

    TheXman: does melo evn care out there?  

    Not sure what you’re talking about. He’s playing solid D, not forcing his shot.

  25. Doug

    Robert Silverman:
    Not sure what you’re talking about. He’s playing solid D, not forcing his shot.  

    Yup. He got the better of Prince on the last possession of the 3rd quarter.

  26. TheXman

    Robert Silverman: Melo on the last

    he played good D in the last possession, the one before tayshaun’s 3 point player, he just seems less aggressive out there I dunno, I mean yea at least he’s not ball stopping and forcing. But he doesn’t have to be jeffries like.

  27. BigBlueAL

    Miami KILLIING Atlanta right now in Atlanta. The 5th seed is there for the taking if the Knicks really want it.

  28. art vandelay

    Given how well TD is playing virtually out of nowhere….and really he has been (with a few notable exceptions) a MUCH improved player since hte all star break…is it a fair assumption that he benefited from the time off and really was UNDERperforming due to those myriad shoulders injuries he was suffering from earlier this season? I am not so sure he is GETTING IT now so much as he just is healthy and hitting shots.

  29. Doug

    TheXman:
    he played good D in the last possession, the one before tayshaun’s 3 point player, he just seems less aggressive out there I dunno, I mean yea at least he’s not ball stopping and forcing.But he doesn’t have to be jeffries like.  

    Would you prefer that Melo took too many shots or too few shots?

  30. Nick C.

    Doug: LOLWILCOXI’m officially disqualifying his candidacy to the Jarrett Jack Memorial HOF.  

    who was the original? Was it Earl Watson with Seattle?

  31. KnickInSeattle

    Extra-e and Amare with the pick and roll.
    Even though Amare missed the shot (fouled) I like it.

  32. art vandelay

    That Billups 3 was pretty huge…stemmed the tide when it looked like the ship was sinking (not that we have won anything yet)….

  33. Robert Silverman

    FYI – Hansbrough is putting up 29 and 12 against the Bulls, so it’s not just our flimsy D

  34. art vandelay

    if billups is going to shoot that 3 early in the shot clock he needs to just shoot it for crying out loud….not look for a bail-out call from the officials!!!!!!!!

  35. KnickInSeattle

    Detroit fouling at all times + Wilcox stepped out on that last rebound before the foul.

  36. TheXman

    lol melo, gets blocked and does not box out, i’m done with this team they do not deserve to make the playoffs

  37. Doug

    TheXman: lol melo, gets blocked and does not box out, i’m done with this team they do not deserve to make the playoffs  

    Can we hold you to that promise?

  38. KnickInSeattle

    @99 Does that mean you’re done with the blog too? 15% + of all posts are you, and all of those are negative and most irrational.

  39. Frank O.

    These MSG commercials are kind of funny in light of how they are playing against a bad team.
    Grand Illusions.

  40. Jake S.

    Fighting it. Fighting…I…can’t resist. What a punk! If you’re not going to score all night, how about boxing somebody out you f’ing stiff.

  41. max fisher-cohen

    ugly ugly ugly. A bunch of easy shots missed on both ends. I can’t wait to see Carmelo wearing his sunglasses again in the post game talking about how the refs let them push him around.

  42. CapB

    this one is mostly on billups…his passes were awful all night and his shot selection was sh*t. Amare needs to make those 4 foot shots in the paint in the 4th quarter.

  43. TheXman

    key play was amare missing an easy layup when they were stuck at 95, to go up by 4, i don’t think they scored in the last 2 minutes

  44. CapB

    TheXman: key play was amare missing an easy layup when they were stuck at 95, to go up by 4, i don’t think they scored in the last 2 minutes  

    he has GOT to make those. Its like the Boston game early in the season. That + missed free throw is 3 easy points

  45. Max

    Oscene play in the clutch, really unbelievable from players “with experience”… We stay close thanks to TD & ExtraE, Billups 8 turnovers, Anthony put up a real stinkers (2-11), Amare miss layups down the strech… I don’t know what to say with this team.

  46. TheXman

    Toney and Shawne kept them in the game, otherwise they would’ve prob lost by 20 like they did to the pacers. Seriously what’s the point of the playoffs, they’ll be lucky to win one game in a series.

  47. cgreene

    Man the defense just plain sucks. So much scrambling. They clearly dont know what they are supposed to do.

  48. BigBlueAL

    All 3 members of the Knicks “Big” 3 had a hand in completely blowing this game. Probably most pathetic loss of the season considering they had an 11 point lead early in the 4th and lost because they couldnt handle Will Bynum and Chris Wilcox.

  49. TheXman

    outscored by 12 in the 4th quarter, i can’t take anything positive. At least mason had a good game.

  50. Max

    Max: Oscene play in the clutch, really unbelievable from players “with experience”… We stay close thanks to TD & ExtraE, Billups 8 turnovers, Anthony put up a real stinkers (2-11), Amare miss layups down the strech… I don’t know what to say with this team.  

    Sorry, Melo 2-12 :-D

    What a mess….

  51. Max

    TheXman: outscored by 12 in the 4th quarter, i can’t take anything positive.At least mason had a good game.  

    TD 20 with 11 dishes, I hope he’ll continue to play that way.

  52. BigBlueAL

    Knicks made 7 more 3pters than Detroit and grabbed 6 more rebounds yet they still lost. Unfuckingbelievable.

  53. Jake S.

    What impressed me most about Melo was his toughness. He had a bad shooting night, but he found a way to do the little things. He crashed the glass, provided solid perimeter D. The guy’s just always in the right spot at the right time.

  54. d-mar

    Hey, that Chris Wilcox is an up and coming star in this league, he’s really good….. oh wait, he’s a journeyman who’s been on like 18 NBA teams.

  55. max fisher-cohen

    Jake S.: For a guy with as much swag as STAT, he sure gets dunked on a lot.  

    No the key to protecting your swag is simply staying out of the way when a guy dunks. If you contest and the guy converts then your name gets mentioned on sportscenter.

    Sigh.

    Frustrating loss from a team that seems determined to frustrate.

    Caleb: We just aren’t that good a team.Philly is looking pretty good for the #5 seed, no?  

    Yes, but average teams beat bad teams. See: New York Knicks before Anthony trade.

  56. Jake S.

    On the bright side, maybe the Knicks won’t pick up Billups’ option and they’ll have some money to play with this off-season.

  57. endyendy

    Man, this team is starting to get that “cannot watch” groove going for me. When they last had it they were just bad and people like Shandon Anderson and Moochie Norris were appearing in the box scores. Now they show how good they can possibly be one night and put forth no effort the next, losing to teams they have no business losing to. It makes me scared to watch just because I know how irrationally upset I’ll be afterward; alas, this is the life of a sports fan.

    I didn’t watch this game as I wasn’t home, but I’m just assuming they came out and played with little effort as if Detroit was supposed to lay down a la Kevin Nash. To me the main downfall of the Melo trade hasn’t been his shot selection or the defense in particular, but rather the vibe they give off that they feel they don’t really need to try in these sort of games.

  58. BigBlueAL

    I would love to be in Dolan’s head at this moment to see what the hell he must be thinking about this team right now lol.

  59. GHenman

    Jake S.: On the bright side, maybe the Knicks won’t pick up Billups’ option and they’ll have some money to play with this off-season.  (Quote)

    If not picking up his option would give them room for someone like Daembert or Nene, then it would be a smart move.

  60. nicos

    Hard to believe. I know Billups still isn’t 100% but you can kind of see why Denver insisted on including him in the trade- he can’t stay in front of anybody anymore and he’s had a few games now where his passing has been pretty bad. While the losing to bad teams drives me crazy, this team needs to make some real changes in how they approach games esp. re:defensive effort and rebounding and maybe getting embarrassed repeatedly will help in that regard. The only plus was really TD though he continues to overcrowd guards on D and give up penetration way too often.

  61. BigBlueAL

    Maybe the master plan is to lose games on purpose to avoid getting into the 5th seed and hoping Philly passes them because they really want to be the 7th seed. Plus letting Philly pass them moves them up 1 spot in the draft this year.

  62. jon abbey

    what a strange game, I wonder if Melo had the flu or something.

    we need Billups to be healthy, he was our best player before Howard kneed him. if he can get back there in time for the playoffs and Douglas and Williams can keep it going, that’s an incredible offensive unit (along with Melo/Amare). 8 TOs for Billups tonight, this one is on him and Melo.

    AND STOP TRYING TO GET THE BALL TO JEFFRIES. GOOD THINGS DO NOT AND WILL NOT HAPPEN. thank you in advance.

  63. Jake S.

    I think I’d rather have Douglas and a competent big man than a 35-year-old Billups at this point.

  64. Z-man

    Very uninspired and unintelligent ball in the last 2 minutes. The Billups miss that led to the fast break was horrible.

  65. flossy

    Chauncey looks old.

    Amar’e looks hurt.

    Melo is playing like an a-hole.

    This team was being carried by Toney Douglas and Shawne Williams, of course we lost. Epic bummer.

  66. d-mar

    This wasn’t one of those “the Knicks played horrible defense and couldn’t get any stops” games. It was “the Knicks played incredibly dumb basketball” with Billups being the poster boy. Plus, WAY too many runouts and layups at the other end after Knicks misses.

    Hard to figure out this team, I’ll guess we’ll find out what they’re really made of come playoff time.

  67. tenebrous

    Personally I don’t like all this talk people seem to be having (on this blog) that the Knicks can get to 50 wins etc etc etc. Perhaps that’s a little too much pressure.

  68. Jake S.

    Let me save you the suspense, d-mar. They’ll lose 4-1 against WHOMEVER they’re playing. Much

  69. tenebrous

    BigBlueAL: Maybe the master plan is to lose games on purpose to avoid getting into the 5th seed and hoping Philly passes them because they really want to be the 7th seed.Plus letting Philly pass them moves them up 1 spot in the draft this year.  

    Perhaps. Would not rule it out. Though they probably don’t know how to pick they got Andy over say Fields. And who care MD doesn’t play rookies or the rest of the bench. This would have been a win if MD would have played more players. Yes – in general – more players. Even if the rest of the bench doesn’t do well (say in this game) it become the thought of the stars to help out more as opposed to well Ill get a second chance etc etc etc. Whateva.

  70. BigBlueAL

    tenebrous:
    Perhaps. Would not rule it out. Though they probably don’t know how to pick they got Andy over say Fields. And who care MD doesn’t play rookies or the rest of the bench. This would have been a win if MD would have played more players. Yes – in general – more players. Even if the rest of the bench doesn’t do well (say in this game) it become the thought of the stars to help out more as opposed to well Ill get a second chance etc etc etc. Whateva.  

    I obviously was being sarcastic.

  71. Brian Cronin

    The better Toney plays, the better the chances are that they can package him, Billups, the 2011 first rounder, Fields and a pick for Paul and whatever garbage New Orleans wants to give up on top of Paul.

    Granted, that just means the chances to make that trade likely go from 10% to, like, 15%, but I need something to hold on to!!

  72. Ben R

    That was really ugly. For me the worst thing about this team now is not even about how good they are, we put up some stinkers pre-trade too, but they’re not very fun to watch anymore. We have multiple fringe rotation players playing major minutes, we have two ball-stopping all-stars, we have bad defense. When we have Mason, Jeffires and Williams all on the court at the same time and Amare putting his head down and driving into a triple team it pretty much says it all. The combination of ugly, selfish, dumb basketball, with mediocre effort and a clear sense of entitlement from our “big 2″ makes this team pretty hard to root for.

    I find myself checking out, I don’t even get upset anymore when we fall apart down the stretch. I think the only players I even like on this team are Douglas and Fields. I keep watching, I keep rooting and while it is still the best team we’ve had in a decade it feels like 2006 again.

    I still think we have a solid chance to win a playoff series but I think we have the same chance of getting swept badly. But what really worries me is that at this point I don’t think I really care either way. I still love the Knicks but Christ this is getting rough.

  73. BigBlueAL

    Z-man:
    Just going by what I saw in crunch time, dis you see it differently in the last few minutes?  

    When he checked back into the game in the 4th quarter he was being guarded by Stuckey and naturally they were trying to force-feed him in the post since it was a mismatch.

    He still only had 3 FGA until the final 2 possessions in which I thought he was clearly fouled on his drive and layup attempt and then his final FGA was just a desperation shot with the clock winding down at the end of the game and the Knicks down 4.

    He didnt talk to the media after the game which is inexcusable but Im sure he was frustrated as shit although I think it was more with the lack of touches probably. Ill say this and it was even mentioned during the game I thought tonight Melo played very good D throughout the entire game. Although I believe Hahn mentioned on Twitter during the game that Melo seemed real frustrated most likely by the lack of involvement on offense which unfortunately is pretty stupid but at the least it didnt seem to affect hie effort level on D which was actually very good throughout the game.

  74. daJudge

    Very hard to witness and process. My wife says she can’t sit and watch the games with me because I am too negative. Conversely, on this site, I always try hard to stay positive. Anyway, I’m starting to consider the possibility that maybe I was an apologist of late. “The combination of ugly, selfish, dumb basketball, with mediocre effort and a clear sense of entitlement from our “big 2? makes this team pretty hard to root for.” Hard to say it better. Hard to root for under-achievers. I’m starting to feel this as well. I remember suggesting to Ben R that he should chill and check out some old Hank. I’m going to take my own advice. Wow. What a big time bummer.

  75. BigBlueAL

    The thing is complaining about dumb, selfish basketball when it has been shown here that they have had the best offense in the NBA since the trade (and that post was written before last night’s game where there offensive efficiency was something crazy like 135 pts/100 poss) is a bit harsh and stupid for that matter.

    Criticize the defense and perceived lack of effort all you want because to this point it has certainly been warranted but the offense is the last thing we should complain and worry about.

  76. jon abbey

    “they’re not very fun to watch anymore.”

    I know, right? 9 3s by Toney in the last game, Amare’s incredible levitating posterizing move tonight? I miss Darko.

  77. Jim Cavan

    So apparently Melo ran away and cowered on the team bus after the game?

    That’s not a good sign. Say what you will about Amar’e, if he’d gone 0-25 with 19 turnovers he wouldn’t have pulled that kind stunt. At least we know for a fact who the true leader is now.

    For as much as he kills me sometimes, Sheridan’s wrap-up was right on: Not only would Stoudemire or Ewing never have pulled something like that; Stephon Marbury wouldn’t have pulled something like that. Yikes.

    Glad I missed this one. I’m still hopeful they can pull it together and get some momentum going for the playoffs, but Melo’s gonna have a hard time living this one down.

  78. tenebrous

    Jim Cavan: So apparently Melo ran away and cowered on the team bus after the game?
    That’s not a good sign. Say what you will about Amar’e, if he’d gone 0-25 with 19 turnovers he wouldn’t have pulled that kind stunt. At least we know for a fact who the true leader is now.For as much as he kills me sometimes, Sheridan’s wrap-up was right on: Not only would Stoudemire or Ewing never have pulled something like that; Stephon Marbury wouldn’t have pulled something like that. Yikes.
    Glad I missed this one. I’m still hopeful they can pull it together and get some momentum going for the playoffs, but Melo’s gonna have a hard time living this one down.  

    cowered? he had a pistons fan yapping at him all night. maybe it had something to do with that pistons fan.

    They just missed crazy close baskets. I would also be extremely upset. Anthony just wants to make the playoffs. The way the Knicks are looking they might not.

  79. BigBlueAL

    Jim Cavan: So apparently Melo ran away and cowered on the team bus after the game?
    That’s not a good sign. Say what you will about Amar’e, if he’d gone 0-25 with 19 turnovers he wouldn’t have pulled that kind stunt. At least we know for a fact who the true leader is now.For as much as he kills me sometimes, Sheridan’s wrap-up was right on: Not only would Stoudemire or Ewing never have pulled something like that; Stephon Marbury wouldn’t have pulled something like that. Yikes.
    Glad I missed this one. I’m still hopeful they can pull it together and get some momentum going for the playoffs, but Melo’s gonna have a hard time living this one down.  

    Just saw the post-game interviews with Billups and Amar’e and boy were Berman and surprisingly Hahn really trying to bate them into taking shots at Melo.

  80. Doug

    BigBlueAL: and surprisingly Hahn really trying to bate them into taking shots at Melo.  

    HAAAAAAHHHHN NOOOOOO

    That is surprising. Hahn was banging the “The Knicks need a superstar” drum constantly.

  81. hoolahoop

    Ben R: they’re not very fun to watch anymore.

    I feel the same way. Watching the knicks play selfish, dumb basketball is irritating. It sort of reminds me of the Marbury/Curry days when I actually liked when they lost if they played ugly.
    I know the knicks were struggling before the trade, but it was fun to watch.

  82. BigBlueAL

    Doug:
    HAAAAAAHHHHN NOOOOOOThat is surprising. Hahn was banging the “The Knicks need a superstar” drum constantly.  

    The best part was he asked I think Amar’e a question about why the team played better and went on their run when Melo was on the bench. He played the entire 3rd quarter (in which the Knicks outscored Detroit by 10) as always and the Knicks lead by 8 after 3 quarters. When both he and Billups checked back into the game (Melo and Billups began the 4th quarter on the bench and Amar’e started the 4th after sitting last few minutes of 3rd as always) with 8 and 1/2 minutes left in the game the lead was down to 3 already.

  83. Doug

    hoolahoop:
    I know the knicks were struggling before the trade, but it was fun to watch.  

    It wasn’t fun to watch when the threes weren’t falling. Or when the pick and roll stopped working because Ray-Ray kept clanging uncontested jumpers off the back iron, grinding the entire offense to a halt. Or when nobody could grab a rebound and teams would murder the Knicks in the paint with second chance baskets.

    Of course when everything did work it was great. It was watching SSOL executed to perfection. However, let’s not romanticize the past.

  84. Z-man

    The most disappointing thing of all has been the dumb play of Billups. I thought he would at least play within himself. Instead, he seems to either take a dumb shot or make a poor pass right when it counts most.

    There is no question that for the purist, this team is not as fun to watch right now overall. Yet, there are stretches where we play very well. There have also been games where we have been very fun to watch. The good news is:
    1. we will almost certainly make the playoffs
    2. it probably doesn’t matter that much who we play in the first round, we will be decided underdogs and will most likely lose. We really have no answer in the middle. Even vs. the Heat, I recal that Iggy had a monster first Q against us, and then for some reason hardly played (the game when Bosh sat and we won pre-trade.)
    3. struggles right now might lead to greater urgency to improve, and that could motivate positive change. If we were winning these games, the team and D’Antoni (and in the offseson, Walsh) might think we are closer to playoff-ready than we are.

    I really think the answer for this year is in Billups’ hands. Honestly, I don’t think the leg is to blame for his poor play.

  85. CapB

    A bad leg doesnt make you take stupid shots or keep making bad passes into traffic. That is just decision pure decision making. Its one thing to miss shots, or not being able to get after the ball. He is taking bad shots.

    Give Melo credit, he played tough D all night, didnt commit any dumb fouls (except for one) and was happy to pass the ball all night. He shot very poorly and didnt have a smart 4th quarter, but he was playing hard.

    Alot of you dont blame Amare enough in these losses. He got used all night by Chris Wilcox and Ben Wallace. He missed a 4 foot layup that would have put them up by 4.

    I still find the team fun to watch. Yes, the pre-trade Knicks team was alot of fun to watch early in the season during that nice stretch. That team was getting worse as the season went on though.

    Never thought id say it, but Douglas is running the offense better than Billups

  86. Jim Cavan

    So much drama in the N-Y-C!

    Looks like things are kind of coming to a head, no? Since Melo arrived it seems like most — at least on this thread — have been pretty OK with the slight pumping of the breaks on offense. If anything, it was necessary in order to not burn a 35-year-old Chauncey Billups down too quickly / not burn out our two remaining PGs while Chauncey was out.

    But with Stat softly calling Melo out in the press, combined with TD’s pretty excellent play as of late, maybe going more up-tempo wouldn’t be such a bad thing. If anything, it would give Billups the rest he still clearly needs, while handing the reigns over a little more to a PG who, while no Steve Nash, is undeniably getting better.

    Tomorrow night should be awfully interesting.

  87. d-mar

    The story circulating around the sports media about Carmelo being upset at TD for not giving him the ball on a fast break (even though Easy E got a slam and it resulted in a Detroit timeout with the Knicks going up 7) is a little disturbing to me. Even though it’s just one play, it somewhat confirms the “Melo just wants to get his” stereotype. What I want to see is Melo jumping up off the bench (like Amare does) when the subs are going on a run, or celebrating a great play by a teammate even if had nothing to do with him. I know the Melo haters are going to chime in here with “you can’t change a tiger’s stripes”, but I’ll still give him the benefit of the doubt and hope at this point in his career he’ll buy in to the team concept. Maybe Amare needs to get up in his face or something.

  88. Doug

    Z-man: I really think the answer for this year is in Billups’ hands. Honestly, I don’t think the leg is to blame for his poor play.  

    He was on fire until Dwight took him out… do you think his time missed caused him to lose sync with the offense?

  89. CapB

    Doug:
    He was on fire until Dwight took him out… do you think his time missed caused him to lose sync with the offense?  

    of course it did, but again, his decision making has been unacceptable. His shot selection has been very poor and some of his passes arent a matter of mis timing/chemistry, its bad decision making

  90. Z-man

    Doug:
    He was on fire until Dwight took him out… do you think his time missed caused him to lose sync with the offense?  

    Honestly, I don’t think there’s an offense to lose sync with. The ball is just not moving like it should.

  91. Z-man

    Melo, Amar’e and Billups have to learn how to respect their teammates more down the stretch. Each seems to think he has to win the game by himself down the stretch, resulting in selfish, stupid plays (strips, offensive fouls, blocked shots, bad misses leading to transition hoops, and even forced passes.) Fields, TD, and Shawne have to be involved more.

    Another huge problem (predictable) is our rebounding on both ends in crunch time. The game was lost mainly because the Pistons got 2 key offensive rebounds (the slam and the last possession) after our defense made two key stops (Tommy Dee at TKB takes Amar’e to task on the slam, and on his P&R defense in general.) That problem is simply not going to go away this year. Riley used to say “no rebounds, no rings.” This is why, while I will root for our boys like crazy and celebrate our first playoff team in years, I have little faith in our team in the first round regardless of who we play. When your rookie 2 guard is your best rebounder (who wasn’t in the game at the end?), there is not a lot of hope that you can win games unless you are shooting the lights out. When we shoot well, we can beat anybody, but when the game depends on making stops and getting boards, we are at a decided disadvantage.

  92. hoolahoop

    @ 164
    That’s right, it was great to watch when the three’s were falling and the ball was moving. But surely, the knicks needed an infusion of some sort to get them to the next level.
    Unfortunately, they didn’t try to fit the missing pieces to what was working with moderate success, figuring the role players were replaceable. Time will tell, but for the moment the biggest intangible, team chemistry, trumps individual talent.

  93. hoolahoop

    Z-man: I really think the answer for this year is in Billups’ hands. Honestly, I don’t think the leg is to blame for his poor play. Z-man

    (Quote)

    Well, it seems like Billups hides his brain is in his quadricep. Since the injury he’s become a stupid, selfish player.
    At the end of the first quarter last night the knicks had the ball in billups hands with about 15 seconds left. I figured he’s set something up. He dribbled outside the arc and with a few seconds left hoisted up a three from about two feet behind the arc – with a man on him. What the fuck is that?

  94. max fisher-cohen

    d-mar: The story circulating around the sports media about Carmelo being upset at TD for not giving him the ball on a fast break (even though Easy E got a slam and it resulted in a Detroit timeout with the Knicks going up 7) is a little disturbing to me. Even though it’s just one play, it somewhat confirms the “Melo just wants to get his” stereotype.

    We’ve talked a lot about the possible positive impact of ‘Melo demanding to come to NY — how it puts pressure on him to play better and harder — but I think the expectations surrounding Amaré’s arrival were much more conducive to a positive mindset. If the Knicks lost back before ‘melo’s arrival, it was easy to write off as “well they’re just not that good.” The Carmelo trade was a win now move. Rather than joining a bad team, he joined a team that projected to have 42-46 wins. In other words, there are no more built in excuses.

    Furthermore, Carmelo was involved in (responsible for?) a ton of drama before he left. He pretty much forced this trade to happen, whereas Phoenix pretty much bailed on Amaré. If Amaré had demanded a trade to the Knicks in 2009/10, and the Knicks had given up young promising guys for him, he would have faced a lot higher expectations.

    This fits with the Knicks’ performance so far: When you play a good team, no one will blame you for losing, so you may not put as much pressure on yourself to be the guy and prove yourself.

    At the end of the day though any of these psychological excuses are cheap and a dime a dozen. This loss, as with the 4 other losses to bad teams, is inexplicable when you compare the two teams’ talents. They get three days off in late march/early april. I see that as their last chance to work things out before the 7th/8th seed and an uncompetitive 1st round loss begin to look inevitable.

  95. hoolahoop

    A look ahead.
    NY Post 2/19/13
    The NY Knicks grant Carmelo Anthony his wish. Anthony made it clear to knicks management that he wanted to go back to playing for his former team, the Denver Nuggets, before the end of the upcoming trade deadline. In a trade involving just two players, Anthony will go to Denver in exchange for former knick’s first round draft pick, Danilo Gallinari. The knicks have also agreed to a large, undisclosed cash payment to Denver to help offset Anthony’s $22 million/year salary. “Gallo” is expected to play in tonight’s game against reigning NBA champions, the Chicago Bulls.

  96. CRJoe

    I think we’re giving too much praise to our offense.. Yes, since the trade we are the team that’s scoring the most points, even when adjusted for pace.. But we are also shooting 46% from the field since the trade, a performance that puts us 16th in the league AND (this next one took me a while to calculate and rank) our Effective FG is 50.1% since the trade, which means we are 9th in the league in that department…
    I guess what I’m trying to say is that we are a mediocre team at scoring, we waste way too many possesions in awful shots, and we are not a consistent enough threat on offense to be taken seriously…
    Yesterday I made a case of how we could possibly face MIA in the playoffs and make a series out of it… But with the latest team regressions it’s a joke to consider we are gonna get to the conference finals in the next 5 years without some major roster changes…

  97. BahamaKnick

    Not exactly the same but similar enough to make me feel a little better about our current situation. The 94-95 Houston Rockets started the season 30-17 then traded for Clyde Drexler who wanted to reunite with college teammate Hakeem Olajuwon they went 17-18 for the rest of the season made the playoffs as the 6th seed and went on to win their second consecutive championship. I am not expecting a championship and Amare is no Hakeem (who missed about 8 games) but we have to integrate more players than they had to and as with that year the playoffs are a completely different story. I remain confident that we will get it together and have decent showing in the playoffs.

  98. tenebrous

    I think they’ll play better once there is more at stake i.e. a 4 game series. Having said that, yeah perhaps Anthony needs to sit it out for the Knicks to win. They are not playing him as iso, hence they know his gonna pass and they are clogging up the passing lanes. On top of that no one is moving to a different passing lane either. He needs to either shoot 40 shots and say the heck with the team (maybe this will allow the team to learn his tendencies), or he needs to (as hard as it is for me to say) sit on the bench and make sure everyones water is filled.

  99. hoolahoop

    Mowgli: I’d trade Melo for D-will . Nets can finally get what they wanted,
    we get what we need!  

    I’d be surprised if melo didn’t have some sort of no-trade clause.

  100. Robert Silverman

    For those who can’t recall – Latrell Sprewell and Marcus Camby both had “difficult” (to say the least) transition periods when they came to NY for the ’98-’99 season. Camby was soft/injury prone and Sprewell was a pouter/selfish/me-first b/c he wanted to start (he didn’t start at SF ’till the playoffs) and the fan-base (yours truly included) bemoaned the loss of “real” Knicks like Oakley and Starks.

    This too shall pass…

  101. Robert Silverman

    Spree8nyk8: You have to be with a team for 8 years before you can have a no trade clause  

    You’re thinking of baseball. A no-trade clause can be in any non-rookie NBA deal. Melo doesn’t have one. In fact, he has an opt-out clause after 2014

  102. Robert Silverman

    CapB: Camby didnt really make any impact until the playoffs from what I remember  

    Van Gundy buried him in the regular season.

  103. Doug

    So Morehead State is going to lose to Richmond. Thank goodness, that means Kenneth Faried’s draft stock isn’t going to rise any higher.

  104. max fisher-cohen

    been watching a bunch some of these NCAA tourney games — those with players who could go in the teens — here are some impressions:

    Bad:

    Kawhi Leonard has been pretty average in both games — 2nd or 3rd best guy on his team and a chucker at that. Watching SDSU reminded me of our games against the grizzlies: A bunch of athletic wing players who are only successful off of steals and crumble in the halfcourt. They’ve played two teams with weak frontlines and only managed to squeak past temple in double OT. They’re absolutely gone next round.

    Honeycutt has a smooth stroke when open, but his release is rather slow and he never made a shot when the defense was nearby. He also didn’t seem a great ball-handler or finisher. He botched a couple of pretty easy fast breaks in the two games I watched.

    Good:

    Brandon Knight seems a decent finisher and ball handler. He was a complete nonfactor (other than the game winner) in round one but came up big in round 2. He’s young athletic and skilled and seems content to let the game come to him. Just not the greatest passer.

    Faried looked very nimble-footed for his size, which is so so key for truly great defenders. He used his body well to ensure rebounds. I don’t know that he’ll ever be great on offense, but he seemed capable of making a hoop if he caught it down low. He’s stronger than Balkman but will still prolly have to put on 10-20 pounds to be a regular 4 (although he looked bigger than the 215 he’s listed at). Maybe that’s just because college players are smaller. I see him more as a jerome williams type player, which would be ideal for the Knicks.

  105. max fisher-cohen

    BTW, this Pitt Butler game is insane. Bulldogs up 1 with 1 second left. They immediately foul! Pitt goes 1/2 on the FTs then immediately fouls back with .4 seconds left! It is making my brain hurt.

  106. Jim Cavan

    max fisher-cohen: BTW, this Pitt Butler game is insane. Bulldogs up 1 with 1 second left. They immediately foul! Pitt goes 1/2 on the FTs then immediately fouls back with .4 seconds left! It is making my brain hurt.  

    Really curious to hear everyone’s thought on that one. Was it a foul? Yes. Do you call that foul if Butler’s down 1? Sure. But a tie game? Does Howard even have time to get a shot off if he isn’t touched? I think the refs made a huge mistake, and ruined that kids life in the process.

  107. BigBlueAL

    Jim Cavan:
    Really curious to hear everyone’s thought on that one. Was it a foul? Yes. Do you call that foul if Butler’s down 1? Sure. But a tie game? Does Howard even have time to get a shot off if he isn’t touched? I think the refs made a huge mistake, and ruined that kids life in the process.  

    That was a HORRIBLE call to decide the game. Just let it go to Overtime for crying out loud. Howard clearly had the rebound secured, no need to call a foul there.

  108. Jim Cavan

    Exactly. It’s like the ref psyched himself into believing that first call on Mack was a bad one and it warranted a makeup. It wasn’t, and it didn’t. He ran right into him. I just feel so bad for that kid.

  109. max fisher-cohen

    The second call was a bad call, but the guy shouldn’t have given the ref an excuse to call a foul. The game was over. All they had to do was not foul. There was 1/2 of a second left.

    Now Memphis is destroying Indiana. It’s like a game of rock paper scissors. Knick beats Grizzly, Pacer beats Knick, Grizzly beats Pacer.

  110. daJudge

    Totally agree. I didn’t see a foul and, I know this sounds pathetic, but my sheet is toast. I feel bad for the kid too. Not that bad though since I never got to play in the Tournament, or any significant tournament for that matter! The first call was a foul, but a stupid call, the second call was illusory. Max. First I want to compliment you on your post with the pie charts. Very cool. On Faried–I was not impressed with him much. I’ve seen him a few times and I can’t see him getting much burn in the NBA. I hope I’m wrong because he really hustles and seems like a tough great kid. His background is also compelling. I know I’m a homer, but I would love to see Jimmer drop to the Knicks. It will never happen though.

  111. daJudge

    I know, but I took St. John’s taking out BYU first. Then I had Pitt beating my Johnies. I’m an alum from way back when Mark Jackson, Mullen, etc.. were on the team. So I took the Johnies to take out Jimmer. If BYU was in another bracket, I would have had them to sweet 16/8.

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