Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Friday, October 24, 2014

2011 Game Thread: Knicks @ Pacers

For your game thoughts.

313 comments on “2011 Game Thread: Knicks @ Pacers

  1. jon abbey

    Shawne Williams starting instead of Jeffries. that’s a scary offensive unit if Billups is actually Billups again, but I have no idea who will pretend to guard Hibbert.

  2. art vandelay

    Never had the luxury of doing this before, but now I shall: Thirsties (for a win against a mediocre opponent for a change)!!!

  3. art vandelay

    STAT will pretend to guard Hibbert…he already does an excellent job of pretending so it should be no big deal for him.

  4. Spree8nyk8

    Pretty sure haterade is still on sale if you wanna run to the store before the game guys.

  5. BigBlueAL

    What the coaching staff needs to do is drill it into Amar’e that he doesnt have to worry about foul trouble and play so soft on defense because the team is more equipped to handle him not being on the floor now with Melo and Billups.

    I understood his fear earlier in the season about this but that shouldnt be a problem now.

  6. latke

    hibbert is not a good offensive player. His TS% is .493. If the defense is active, there’s no reason we can’t control him by committee. I’m much more concerned about A) the offense. Can we not revert to iso ball whenever a team shows defensive intensity? B) Activity on defense. Mamadou N’Diaye could come out of retirement and go Tyler Hansbrough on the Knicks if they play D like they did last game.

  7. BigBlueAL

    If the Pacers are going to be making jumpshots all night Knicks D is screwed either way. Already twice Pacers beat shotclock buzzer with long jumpers made.

  8. BigBlueAL

    Fields cant cover Granger or George apparently. Shawne cant cover Hansbrough without fouling. Sometimes its just a matter of being able to guard your man one-on-one period.

  9. Jim Cavan

    The Pacers are just one of those teams that moves the ball really, really well, and we’re constantly being caught in no man’s land.

  10. BigBlueAL

    Jim Cavan: The Pacers are just one of those teams that moves the ball really, really well, and we’re constantly being caught in no man’s land.  

    The Pacers are 23rd in offensive efficiency though. Apparently they only move the ball effectively vs the Knicks.

  11. art vandelay

    Nice to see amare give a hard foul for a change…surprised the refs didn’t whistle him for a tech or throw him out of hte game the way they treat him.

  12. Jim Cavan

    Seriously, anyone but Tyler *&$%#& Hansbrough. Mike Dunleavy torching us in his street clothes would be easier to handle.

  13. art vandelay

    mediocre knicks opponent HOFamer Hansbrough appears to be back once again with a vengeance! jeez

  14. BigBlueAL

    TD 0 for 3 to start the game tonight. Is there anybody more erratic in the NBA with their shooting than TD??

  15. art vandelay

    anyone know why nba league pass broadband doesn’t allow the user to choose the transmission feed? it usually goes to the home team and having to listen to some of these homers is nearly too much to take…I wish we could choose between the two broadcasts like I believe the MLB online application permits.

  16. Spree8nyk8

    Amare gets so many bullshit charges. There is no way that guy got there in time. No effing way

  17. art vandelay

    They won[t be down 2 for long…STAT with 3rd foul….refs just letting him get beat up tonight it appears…ridiculous!

  18. BigBlueAL

    Foster was late as hell on that charge. He got his foot outside the no-charge zone a nano-second before the charge. Thats bullshit to allow a player to get there that late and still draw a charge.

    Of course now Amar’e has 3 fouls since nobody wants to grab a defensive rebound. What a horrible start to this game.

  19. art vandelay

    I thought the whole purpose of having 2 stars was to mitigate scoring droughts when one of the two is out….yet the amount of time dantoni leaves them both on the bench and an offensively-challenged team in when we are behind is astounding to me!

  20. Jim Cavan

    The call was close, but Clyde was right: Stat’s gotta pull straight up on that. He obviously has the touch.

  21. Spree8nyk8

    I hate this fucking shit where they allow a player to establish defensive position after the offensive player has already left their feet. It happens ALL the time and it’s ridiculous.

  22. latke

    i’m starting to wonder if we are capable of even being consistently mediocre on defense. They really seem to be trying out there, and yet Indiana’s still at 51.6%.

  23. art vandelay

    one problem with this knicks team is it really doesn[t have any ENERGY guys who can come off the bench and change an otherwise sluggish pace or attitude of the team when it is dead….like a Starks in 98 or even nate robinson.

  24. BigBlueAL

    How the hell is that not a foul on Mason’s layup if it wasnt apparently blocked?? You have got to be kidding me.

  25. BigBlueAL

    Owen: Jeff Foster 9 rebounds? Is that a misprint?  

    I believe in Game 5 of the 2004 playoffs vs Miami he had a 20 pt/20 reb game.

  26. Jim Cavan

    If I were D’Antoni I’d have Billups out there 40 minutes a game. I know he’d be gassed, but he really does get the veteran calls a lot of the time.

  27. BigBlueAL

    Turiaf gets his dunk attempt blocked by Granger. Melo makes a layup while getting killed by Hibbert but no foul call.

  28. art vandelay

    Refs are MAULING us tonight…I am not one to complain about reffing really at all…but this is incredibly one-sided tonight thus far!

  29. Jim Cavan

    I don’t think I’ve ever been so excited for a charging call on the other team. I think my neighbors called the cops.

  30. Thomas B.

    Wouldnt you know it. The moment I’m done with the Green Eggs and Ham routine the NBALP stops streaming.

  31. BigBlueAL

    Im going to make a stupid comment now but seriously teams just shoot amazingly against the Knicks at times its not even funny.

    I watch a boatload of NBA games and plenty of times I see teams shoot horrible by just missing wide-open shots all game (similar to the Knicks last game) but teams never have poor shooting nights against the freaking Knicks its unbelievable.

  32. Jim Cavan

    I have to say, I like D’Antoni keeping Stat on the bench at the end. I know logic says you keep him there with 3 fouls in the first half anyway, but D’Antoni’s definitely played him in that situation this year. Two of Stat’s fouls were just dumb: that come-from-behind hack on Hansbrough which, while indicative of “effort”, was just done in anger; and that offensive which, while close, he should have pulled up on. Hopefully he got the message.

  33. d-mar

    Seriously, if you took the names off of the uniforms and hid the faces, which team would an objective observer say is 34-31 and which one 28-38?

  34. Max

    Hope the second half will be better (STAT has played an awful game until now), but we couldn’t stop a granny in a wheelchair (Indiana is shooting 52%) and we’re getting killed on the boards… Still we’re down by only three!

  35. Jim Cavan

    Never in a million years did I ever think I’d say this, but here we go: if we can contain TYLER HANSBROUGH, we’ll win this game.

  36. latke

    I’m not sure if this makes sense, but I feel like the knicks think they can watch themselves win.

  37. Spree8nyk8

    How the hell are the most blatant fouls not called? Landry steals the ball clearly gets reached in on to turn the ball back over and nothing instead of an easy two for us it’s a 3 for them.

  38. art vandelay

    I really expected them to come out with a lot of fire and put this team away early…or at least be ahead most of the game…not happening.

  39. art vandelay

    This is why the knicks struggle playing from behind…because they can[t get stops late in game…if you look at the games they have won…I think the majority of them they have been ahead most of teh game(with exception of miami home win and a few other notables).

  40. Max

    A 13-2 run for the Pacers in 2:32? Anthony offensive foul, Hibbert offensive boards, Billups miss & foul? Wow….

  41. BigBlueAL

    Jesus Christ the Pacers are just hammering and harassing the Knicks from beyond the 3pt line and nothing is being called.

  42. BigBlueAL

    Cant believe I cant wait for the MLS season opener to start on ESPN so I can stop watching this game.

  43. Kikuchiyo

    What is it with white basketball players and bad haircuts?

    If Hansbrough is the greatest power forward in the history of the NBA—and all evidence from the last two games suggests he is—he’s going to need a better look.

  44. BigBlueAL

    Kikuchiyo: What is it with white basketball players and bad haircuts?
    If Hansbrough is the greatest power forward in the history of the NBA—and all evidence from the last two games suggests he is—he’s going to need a better look.  

    Didnt the Duke crowd taunt him by calling him Beaker from the Muppets??

  45. Max

    I’m speechless… Hansbrough & Granger combined for 45 points shooting 18-30 while Antony & Stoudamire are 27 points on 9-22 shooting? Which team has the stars? Another offensive foul for “The Overrated”….

  46. Jim Cavan

    Kikuchiyo: What is it with white basketball players and bad haircuts?
    If Hansbrough is the greatest power forward in the history of the NBA—and all evidence from the last two games suggests he is—he’s going to need a better look.  

    It’s like he and Duncan traded brains in a double lobotomy.
    Are we sure he and Tim Duncan haven’t had brains traded

  47. BigBlueAL

    Billups still hasnt hit a 3pter since returning but it isnt for a lack of trying to make one.

  48. latke

    all hansbrough’s shots are created by the offense. He’s getting open 18 footers or else catching the ball with a lane to the basket. Those opportunities exist because of the knicks’ indifference to rotating. Regardless, he’s capitalizing, and not everyone will.

  49. Robert Silverman

    Does Carmelo remind anyone else of a SF version of Zach Randolph (No, that’s not a compliment)

  50. BigBlueAL

    Melo was holding the ball forever but looked like was looking to pass but nobody was moving or cutting.

  51. BigBlueAL

    Great tweet by Howard Beck:

    Tyler Hansbrough looks like the long-lost member of Cobra Kai gang. I expect him to beat up Ralph Macchio on his way home from the game.

  52. Max

    In another thread someone (sorry, can’t remeber who) called Melo “a better version of Al Harrington”… and that’s not a compliment too! :-)

  53. d-mar

    D’Antoni: “Ok here’s the play, Melo, you take the ball, hold it for 20 seconds and then fire up a contested J. Everybody got it? Ok, go get ‘em!”

  54. art vandelay

    In fairness to Melo, he didn’t seem comfortable shooting that last one…clearing looking to pass out to someone for open 3 but everyone else seemed to be standing around.

  55. Robert Silverman

    BigBlueAL: Great tweet by Howard Beck:Tyler Hansbrough looks like the long-lost member of Cobra Kai gang. I expect him to beat up Ralph Macchio on his way home from the game.  

    “Get him a body-bag. Yeaaahhhhhhhh!

  56. Z-man

    The Pacers should lure Big Country out of retirement…, with Hansbrough and McRoberts, they could have an all-buzz-cut front line.

  57. latke

    Robert Silverman: Does Carmelo remind anyone else of a SF version of Zach Randolph (No, that’s not a compliment)  

    he sure loves to hold the ball a lot (which was/is maddening in both their cases) but he’s a better passer when he wants to be.

  58. Robert Silverman

    Max: In another thread someone (sorry, can’t remeber who) called Melo “a better version of Al Harrington”… and that’s not a compliment too!:-)  

    That’s the #7 he’s sporting messing w/your perception

  59. dsulz

    We made a run to close the third. But will it matter? I suspect that we lose tonight, even if we’re only down by 5 to start the 4th. We can be a really gutless team. When we’re on we’re on. But I don’t think that we’ll win this game.

  60. Michael Cline

    Foster just body slammed him lol.

    I think Amare pisses a lot of people off when he squares to the bucket and starts waving his elbows. Foster had had enough of that “driving right at the defender and throwing something up” nonsense

  61. Jim Cavan

    That’s like the 11th time we’ve gotten them below 5 on the shotclock and then bailed them out with a stupid foul.

  62. BigBlueAL

    Is Fields fucking kidding me?? Lets McRoberts blow by him from the 3pt line then fouls him. I know everybody loves him but he is as big a problem on the defensive end as the rest of the team.

  63. BigBlueAL

    Cant believe Knicks only down 4 with 8:40 left in this game. Feel like they should be down 15.

  64. Spree8nyk8

    My biggest knock on Landry (and it’s not big because he’s a rook), is that he doesn’t play the second half of games with the confidence that he plays the first half. In first halves he’s always finding the right spot for a good shot and really contributes. But late in games he just disappears completely.

  65. Spree8nyk8

    BigBlueAL: Cant believe Knicks only down 4 with 8:40 left in this game.Feel like they should be down 15.  

    That’s because they were.

  66. art vandelay

    If they win this won it will be highway robbery…I sure hope it happens but feels like they have been outworked and outplayed in just about every facet of the game….indiana has really killed itself with some dumb TOs….knicks best chance defensively is on granger ISOs….just hope he missed outside J, then box out.

  67. Kikuchiyo

    I can read lips: they just showed Jeffries saying to the team, “get the ball to me. I got this.”

    Okay, not really.

  68. jaylamerique

    As much as we hate TD, i think he’s actually a pretty good back up point guard in comparison to whats out there. No one plays defense like him and he can shoot well

  69. BigBlueAL

    Never mind, both back in. Wait, looks like Melo checking in for Amar’e who hasnt sat in 2nd half.

  70. art vandelay

    STAT offensively seems to be our one really good mismatch…can get his shot whenever he wants…I know he needs a rest, but we need him in there down the stretch!

  71. Max

    How many times we let our opponents got an And-1? If you want to foul someone go for the kill!

  72. Michael Cline

    What a great drive and dish by TD.

    I really have enjoyed watching what he’s given us off the bench since the trade. I know he got drilled by everyone on this board last game, but he is showing that he can be a factor on both ends of the floor on a regular basis.

  73. art vandelay

    billups still doesn’t look like himself…I actually would have TD handling at this point…NEVER thought I would say THAT!

  74. BigBlueAL

    Also seriously will the Pacers please stop making contested shots. Its getting annoying.

  75. d-mar

    Well, theoretically, we should have a big advantage down the stretch since we have 2 superstars, but the Pacers have Tyler McHale.

  76. Max

    Melo’s going to win this at the buzzer after a 23 second ISO play. Good game by TD (and Jeffries), I’m eating the free taco…

  77. Robert Silverman

    I hate it when the Knicks make the likes of Hibbert and Hansbrough look like Parish & McHale

  78. Frank O.

    They don’t seem to be hustling. They do seem flat.
    the intensity doesn’t seem to be there and the Pacers just want to lose this game.
    They’re not good.

  79. BigBlueAL

    Now comes the bitching if Melo misses now. Knicks lose this games its entirely on the defense.

  80. Robert Silverman

    Please, please don’t run the “Give the ball to Melo and everyone else stand around and watch” play.

    What am saying, of course they will

  81. art vandelay

    I said earlier they can never get stops late in games….tonight another great example of that….game not at ALL on melo if they lose…D was horrrrrendous once again!

  82. Robert Silverman

    KnickInSeattle: That’s what you didn’t want Robert?  

    One, too much time left on the clock. Two, I don’t care that it worked, it’s not smart basketball.

  83. Frank O.

    why did he leave so much time on the clock???
    I mean, it’s not like they can stop hibbert in the paint.

  84. BigBlueAL

    Robert Silverman:
    One, too much time left on the clock. Two, I don’t care that it worked, it’s not smart basketball.  

    If game was tied I agree, but when you are losing cant afford to wait. Score when you can.

  85. jaylamerique

    Robert Silverman:
    One, too much time left on the clock. Two, I don’t care that it worked, it’s not smart basketball.  

    what if that was the best opportunity to score?. i mean c’mon stop picking nits

  86. KnickInSeattle

    @184, I think Clyde was right. It would be best to run it down, but it’s not like we had the luxury of passing up an opportunity.

  87. dsulz

    I can’t see us winning this game. The karma is so bad. But Melo just tied it again. Still 7 sec left though. Lotta time to set up and get a shot for Granger or whoever.

  88. Jake S.

    You can see it in the stupid, shit-eating smirk he’s got plastered across his face all the time. He doesn’t get it.

  89. art vandelay

    I am (sadly) not even upset they lost….really had no business being in this game, let alone winning it…starting to lose attachment to this club….their lack of D is just too deflating and makes you feel completely helpless.

  90. Frank O.

    Now grant it, Granger hit a clutch shot, but the Knicks should have never let it get to that point.
    Billups and stat turnovers down the stretch were pretty mystifying.

  91. dsulz

    Hard not to see that coming from a mile away, given how we played. A nauseating loss, but we certainly deserved it.

  92. Bruno Almeida

    We officially suck, that’s it.

    I’ve been on the “wait and see” crowd since the trade (since the beginning of the year, actually), but now I’ve seen enough.

    We’ll never be really relevant with the combination of this roster and D’Antoni coaching.

  93. Jake S.

    We’re trapped with two superstars who make max money and play no defense. And we gave up our entire team for this privilege. Yes, I’m feeling pretty trollish.

  94. rohank

    Another clock fiasco? The refs NEVER check the clock after shots at the end of the game. We should’ve had at least .6 or .7 seconds to work with (which opens up the options a lot more b/c it adds the catch-and-shoot)

  95. art vandelay

    Play of TD is what kept us in the game, actually…I thought Billups really looked terrible…killed us with some ill-advised, unforced TOs and couldn[t hit a 3.

  96. d-mar

    Wow, good thing we don’t face the Pacers or the Cavs in the playoffs, those teams are offensive juggernauts.

  97. BigBlueAL

    Honestly, this switching EVERYTHING on defense has got to stop. Its lazy coaching and leads to lazy defense.

  98. Mike R

    Pacers looked they had 4 all stars tonight – hibbert with 15 and 12, granger with 26, collison with 24 and 9 assists and tyler hansbourough with 30. Cannot win giving up those kinds of numbers to those players.. it also doesnt help that chauncy’s +/- was -20 tonight. very very disappointing loss

  99. Will the Thrill

    Toney Douglas looked so much better than Billups out there I don’t know how D’antoni insists on playing him. Douglas was hitting shots, playing D, and creating off the dribble in the second half while Billups was slow, tired, and lazy all game.

  100. massive

    I remember Ben R saying that if you don’t play defense hard all the time, it won’t be there when you need it. Case in point right here.

  101. CapB

    What the f are some of you talking about? How is is game Melos fault? He hit several hinge shots in the 4th quarter and tied the fn game.

    Wahhh he shot it too early. How about Stat losing the ball when he was open, or billups losing the ball out of bounds.

  102. Frank O.

    The Knicks remind me lately of those horrible Mets teams when after one of their typically horrible losses Ralph Kiner would sneer his way through Kiner’s Corner, being completely unable to hide his outright disgust at how bad the Mets were.
    I was a Yankee fan so I thought it was funny back then, but now, I know exactly how poor ole Ralph felt.

  103. rohank

    Yeah im more putting this game on the Defense, but secondarily, on billups. He’s clearly not ready to come back yet. Most other players would need to get some more practices in with the team before rushing back from a prolonged injury.

    Also – anyone care to comment on the clock?

  104. art vandelay

    One glaring BAD sign is every time we lose the coach cites the offensive deficiencies and failings and never seems to comment on the god awful defense for letting us down…I like dantoni, for the most part, as a coach, but come on!!!! sooner or later we have to be able to get a stop at the end of a game.

  105. Mike R

    Billups sloppy play especially down the stretch was very very costly probably should have just let TD run the point and sat billups in the last 5 minutes or so

  106. d-mar

    I’m generally a D’Antoni supporter, but I really don’t want to hear him say “we’ll figure it out” again in the post game press conference.

  107. Will the Thrill

    I’d much rather see Douglas and Fields than Billups and Douglas out there when Billups looks this deflated.

  108. art vandelay

    I would have sat billups down at the end, of had him play off the ball and let toney orchestrate….again, hard to believe I am typing that, but clearly he was the better player tonight…by a mile!

  109. Jake S.

    And Carmelo spent a good portion of the game sulking. Really looking forward to seeing his body language when they’re playing .500 ball next season. This guy will be a rich man’s Marbury before all is said and done.

  110. dsulz

    Yeah, I’m feeling pretty trollish too. I’m sure that the Knicks will probably bounce back and I’ll feel better, but it’s true that I’m much less patient with this team than I was with the Lost Boys. It’s not a healthy relationship, is all I’m saying. There are high maintenance girlfriends, I’ve become a high maintenance fan. That, I suppose is the most annoying part of the trade. It changed the way I saw the team, rocket launched my expectations before we’d won a single goddamn game with the new squad. Maybe this squad will be good at some point. But right now they’re still very middling, just as they were before the trade. The trade made some things better. But it also made some things worse. And it put a TON more pressure on a team that still has some pretty gaping holes–particularly up front.

  111. TheXman

    Lol didn’t watch any of them game, just read the plays in real time over my phone, hah at least the old knick squad could beat the pacers, if the east weren’t such a shithole after the top5, the knicks would never make the playoffs.

    Looks like we trades our whole team for melo and a point guard as useless as anthony carter. I’d rather lose with gallo, chandler and felton than this joke of a team. At least they were young and played hard and were only going to get better.

  112. Will the Thrill

    How long is Billups signed for again? I don’t even think he has been very impressive even with his good games on the Knicks, he tries to draw fouls on his jump shots way too much because if the refs aren’t calling it, it just ends up as a turnover pretty much. In the good games he has had, he has benefitted from the refs calling those dubious fouls and converted at the line.

  113. BigBlueAL

    Knicks philosophy must be to drop to the 7th seed. Philly hasnt cooperated lately though lol.

  114. art vandelay

    I know he commits some really dumb fouls, but I suppose it has gotten to the point where Turiaf is incapable of playing more than 8 minutes a game? you mean to tell me we couldn[t have put his body on hibbert and perhaps gotten a much-needed defensive board or two? he played 8 minutes tonight and 10 the last game…why are we paying him more than $4 million next year, again????

  115. Z-man

    I didn’t mind the Melo quick shot, gotta tie the game there.

    At the 2-minute mark I told my son that D’Antoni should have put in Turiaf to guard Hibbert because Amar’e had 5. Never happened.

    Billups was definitely the goat tonight.

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  117. Z-man

    It should be no surprise when we lose to a team with a decent center, which Hibbert is, no?

  118. Spree8nyk8

    TheXman: Lol didn’t watch any of them game, just read the plays in real time over my phone, hah at least the old knick squad could beat the pacers, if the east weren’t such a shithole after the top5, the knicks would never make the playoffs.
    Looks like we trades our whole team for melo and a point guard as useless as anthony carter. I’d rather lose with gallo, chandler and felton than this joke of a team. At least they were young and played hard and were only going to get better.  

    lol, yeah because we never had bad losses before this trade….

    Ur memory is very selective. The old team was no better.

  119. BigBlueAL

    Im not worried about Billups at all. He isnt 100%. He isnt the problem.

    The problem is the defensive philosophy. The team played hard on D tonight but this constant switching everything constantly left them vulnerable and forced to start scrambling around on D and allowing wide-open shots and making it easier for the Pacers to offensive rebound. They have no clue how to play team defense and that is 110% on the coaching.

    I like D’Antoni alot, enjoy his interviews and the way he handles the media. Love watching this team play offense. But the way they play D I have finally become convinced will never work. Unless they change their defensive philosophies they are going to continue to be horrible on D. Except for when they play a team like the Hawks who dont believe in running any offensive sets at all and just Iso everything which doesnt force you to have to play any team defense really.

  120. latke

    for better or for worse, D’Antoni ALWAYS trusts his veterans. He is not one of those guys who lets his bench try to win a game even if they get the team back in a game. In that, MDA is sort of the anti-Phil Jackson. Jackson lets his team play through opponent runs, his young players play through honest mistakes (but not laziness — laziness = bench time for all but Gasol and Kobe).

  121. Max

    My internet connection went south with 12 seconds to go… Maybe I’ve been lucky this time… :-)
    By the way, after 12 games of the “new deal” this team is depressing, I know a lot of us think it’s a matter of “gelling” but I see some glaring weaknesses, a roster with limitations, no energy at all, a defense worse that it was before (and that’s something) and a coach not fit for the players the management gave him.
    We’re all Knicks fans, we all want the team to win, but for now I think we’re an inconsistent team (that really resembles the feared McAdoo/Haywood era). Let’s finish this year, play some playoff games and then move on to next year and a full training camp… And yes, the Melo-Marbury comparison makes me shudder…

  122. arro

    I feel my fears are becoming reality. This team pretty much sucks. We had a decent promising TEAM before the trade.

  123. art vandelay

    Yes, Felton would have saved the day with a flurry of long-range 2s like in Oklahoma City and Gallo would have gotten that stop on Granger!!!

  124. art vandelay

    Why is it that there are no posts bashing the squad DURING the game but as soon as we lose all of those randoms pop out of hte woodwork after having not commented ONCE during the game to crucify everything from d’antoni to Mike Breen?

  125. Jake S.

    I did, rohank, but I’m so disgusted with the 47:59.5 that came before it, it’s hard to point a finger at the clock. Dsulz, I’m with you all the way. I was OK with the last .500 team we had, but when you realize you’re in for five years of mediocrity after 12 years of excrement, it’s hard not to be a troll. It’s not that they’re losing games. They’ll win some more, they’ll get better. It’s the creeping feeling that this will NEVER be a championship-caliber team and probably won’t even be close. That’s where all the disappointment comes from. So thanks, Spree8nyk8, but I’m full up on haterade for the foreseeable future.

  126. nicos

    Billups was two steps slow all night- maybe he should come off the bench until he’s 100% healthy. TD looks like he’s finally getting the hang of running the P & R and while I don’t think he’s a long term starter, he’s better than Billups for the moment. Also, would it have hurt to give Sheldon Williams a few minutes, especially in the first half when they were getting killed on the glass- he’s really the only guy the Knicks have who can bang and Hibbard’s a guy whose effectiveness plummets the farther away from the basket he is.
    I will say that if Hansbrough can make that open 18-20 footer the way he has recently he’ll have a nice career.

  127. BigBlueAL

    Granger hit a tough shot, cant complain there. Although Shawne wasnt covering him initially but of course they switched when Granger used a screen to get free to get the inbound pass.

  128. art vandelay

    what kills me is no turiaf in after amare picked up the 5th foul….I just don’t get it.

  129. Jake S.

    And sorry, is this site so sacred that you can’t rag on the Knicks when they play like dogshit? Isn’t that half the battle with this miserable organization? I’m not dogging any commenters here.

  130. Jim Cavan

    art vandelay: what kills me is no turiaf in after amare picked up the 5th foul….I just don’t get it.  

    Jeffries, even. SOMETHING! D’Antoni is a really smart guy I think. But he’s like a savant who sometimes misses the obvious.

  131. jon abbey

    I mistakenly recorded in SD instead of HD, and once I noticed, I decided to check the live score, and I ended up only watching the last ten minutes (which I never do for Knicks games, kind of a unique perspective).

    one question: if Jeffries threw it to Melo at the end, would it be theoretically possible for him to quickly redirect or is just a tap allowed and that is why he passed him up? I don’t know if the rule is 0.3 or under 0.3.

    and anti-gellians: Billups and Amare will presumably be a lot better at a two man game with some time under their belts together, that late turnover was terrible.

  132. CapB

    Jake S.: And sorry, is this site so sacred that you can’t rag on the Knicks when they play like dogshit? Isn’t that half the battle with this miserable organization? I’m not dogging any commenters here.  

    There is a difference between ragging on them and obscene overreaction to things which is seemingly the norm reaction to things round here

  133. outoftowner

    Jake S.: I was OK with the last .500 team we had, but when you realize you’re in for five years of mediocrity after 12 years of excrement, it’s hard not to be a troll. It’s not that they’re losing games. They’ll win some more, they’ll get better. It’s the creeping feeling that this will NEVER be a championship-caliber team and probably won’t even be close. That’s where all the disappointment comes from.   

    This team will not win a championship in the next five years, but I can’t believe anyone thinks that the Melo trade is the reason for that. There was zero chance even before the Melo trade that the Knicks were going to win a championship anytime soon.

    I was against the Jared Jeffries trade, because that’s where we lost the ability to build through the lottery if we missed on Lebron James.

    I was against signing Amare, because that put us in no man’s land (5-8 seed) for 5 years, meaning we have to wait even longer for a real rebuilding.

    By the Carmelo trade, it didn’t matter anymore. The Knicks weren’t going to be able to rebuild over the next 5 years anyway. Carmelo doesn’t change that.

    You guys who are furious at the Melo trade should have been furious back when we gave up our future for a 1% shot at Lebron James.

  134. AHouston20

    People are way overreacting to Billups’ last two mediocre games…i’m sorry but he’s not as useless as Carter he’s light years better than him (and way better than felton too). For the people that think we were going to be getting only better with the old team thats bull…Felton’s been the same player forever (except the first two months of this season) and Ill Will bless his heart wasn’t suddenly going to become a lot better. Maybe Gallo improves at sometime in the future and becomes an all-star but who really knows?
    And honestly the way this team has stepped up for the good teams is just as encouraging as the way we lose to bad teams is depressing and worrisome. Everyone seems to be forgetting that we were mediocre before the trade and we weren’t getting better as the season progressed we were getting worse. I really think that with this team with proven playoff players (Amare, Melo, Billups) we need to wait to make judgment until the playoffs

  135. daJudge

    Nicely played Thomas B. Agree again with BBA re: defensive philosophy (is it nihilism perhaps?). Just some whining from me, sorry… Also, can we get cap space if we play w/o an actual coach? I also did not appreciate Melo’s machinations at the close of the game, total bush league imo. Sorry, just really down w/o perspective—help. I’ll lay back under the bridge now, good night.

  136. Frank O.

    I know, if I’m D’Antoni I know I have to play Billups back into shape. They don’t have the luxury of lots of practice. He will need play himself into shape.
    You can’t do that by pulling him toward the end because he’s out of sync. I mean, you have to keep your eye on the playoffs. You have to believe the Knicks will win enough games to get to the playoffs.
    So, once you get there, all your pieces need to be in shape and in place.
    So, as frustrating as it is to watch a game like this, I like that D’Antoni stayed with Chauncey. Healthy, he’s a damn good player.
    But integrating a rusty point affects every player on the team, so you need to expect the whole team will be off.
    The wrap around, blind pass to Amare down the stretch was perfectly fine to do, if you are synced with your teammates. When you haven’t played together much, not such a good play.

    So the level-headed me recognizes what is going on. The emotional side of me just can’t believe the Knicks just dropped a home and home with the Pacers, who did everything in their power to give that game away.

    But to go all half-cocked probably is unnecessary.

  137. art vandelay

    @264 with a very astute commentary…the goal was to make the playoffs this year as this really is year 1 of the rebuild after tearing it all down…I will be happy if we take a few games in the first round…maybe go into a 5th game tied 2-2….no expecting a second round showing anyway…if it happens, EXCELLENT season….

    these game threads become bouts of euphoria or dire straits pending the outcome of each game….I bet it would be hilarious to go back to the thread after the knicks pommelled san antonio earlier this year and read some of hte comments….I am sure there were completely outlandish pronouncements made after that one as there are absurd ones made (on the down side) after this defeat.

  138. Spree8nyk8

    Jake S.: And sorry, is this site so sacred that you can’t rag on the Knicks when they play like dogshit? Isn’t that half the battle with this miserable organization? I’m not dogging any commenters here.  

    Nah man not dogging you bc you are ragging on them playing like shit. They are playing like shit, but be reasonable. Remembering the old team as if they saints is in my opinion causing you to hate them more. That team lost six straight TWICE. TWICE, and had horrible losses just like this team. This team has 2 superstars to build on in the first year of a rebuilding plan. That alone is enough to be happy about, couple that with going to the playoffs. Having some quality wins against good opponents. I mean there are things to be happy about.

    Guess I’m just saying that bagging them for being in a rut but be mad at that. Don’t bother yourself with thinking they’d be something they wouldn’t have been with the other team. Because they just weren’t

  139. Frank O.

    jon abbey: I mistakenly recorded in SD instead of HD, and once I noticed, I decided to check the live score, and I ended up only watching the last ten minutes (which I never do for Knicks games, kind of a unique perspective).
    one question: if Jeffries threw it to Melo at the end, would it be theoretically possible for him to quickly redirect or is just a tap allowed and that is why he passed him up? I don’t know if the rule is 0.3 or under 0.3.
    and anti-gellians: Billups and Amare will presumably be a lot better at a two man game with some time under their belts together, that late turnover was terrible.  

    Yeah, not sure what melo was complaining about. I really don’t see he has time to catch and shoot. It had to be a tip, or deflection.
    i agree also about the two-man game

  140. Jake S.

    CapB, sports fans are inherently irrational. It’s one of the unwritten laws of fandom. After 20 years of abuse rooting for this team, I would hope I can say they suck without being dismissed as a troll. Half the comments here are snap reactions to the events unfolding. It’s a release valve, so what’s the big deal? I would never give another commenter a hard time.

    Outofowner, you make a compelling point, but I think there’s a case to be made that they had enough pieces, picks and cap space to put something together around Amare. Deron Williams would have been a killer pick and roll partner in 2012. Maybe they add a Tyson Chandler between now and then. Only now does it feel they’re truly trapped in no man’s land.

  141. Frank O.

    Spree8nyk8:
    Nah man not dogging you bc you are ragging on them playing like shit.They are playing like shit, but be reasonable.Remembering the old team as if they saints is in my opinion causing you to hate them more.That team lost six straight TWICE.TWICE, and had horrible losses just like this team.This team has 2 superstars to build on in the first year of a rebuilding plan.That alone is enough to be happy about, couple that with going to the playoffs.Having some quality wins against good opponents. I mean there are things to be happy about.Guess I’m just saying that bagging them for being in a rut but be mad at that.Don’t bother yourself with thinking they’d be something they wouldn’t have been with the other team.Because they just weren’t  

    wow, you did pack a bowl. Very mellow. :)

  142. Jim Cavan

    The whole never switching on screens is really a problem. Opposing teams have clearly figured this out, and every coach has told their players to be patient and work the ball until you find the right mismatch. Which happens a lot.

    I still wholeheartedly believe defense is 90 percent effort. But when that 10% skill and strategy is only talked about — in practice, in the press, or wherever — and never actually taught, you can’t expect mere effort to save you from bad switches and easy baskets. Anyone who played high school ball remembers sitting in a chair against the wall to help you learn to keep your feet low, right? Or shuffling sideline to sideline? It hurts. Bad. That’s the 10% skill part that the Knicks are lacking. Of course, I don’t cover practices, so if I’m wrong, please tell me.

  143. BigBlueAL

    I dont get the criticizing of Melo at the end of the game. What am I missing?? He hit his last 4 shots and went 2 for 2 from the FT line in that span as well. Had did have 1 turnover on a questionable offensive foul call. 3 of his shots tied the game, his ft’s gave them a 1 point lead and his other FG gave them a 3pt lead at the time.

  144. Z-man

    You can catch and shoot with :00.3, but it has to be clean…Amar’e vs. Celts proved that, any hesitation kills the shot…and that was :00.4

  145. Thomas B.

    jon abbey: Shawne Williams starting instead of Jeffries. that’s a scary offensive unit if Billups is actually Billups again, but I have no idea who will pretend to guard Hibbert.  

    Seriously, that is the best game preview I have ever seen. (I really mean that). It captured everything you needed to know about this game. I bow to you kind sir.

  146. BigBlueAL

    Hibbert was actually only 5 for 13 from the field. Was 5 for 6 from FT though and had 5 assists.

  147. Frank O.

    BigBlueAL: I dont get the criticizing of Melo at the end of the game.What am I missing??He hit his last 4 shots and went 2 for 2 from the FT line in that span as well.Had did have 1 turnover on a questionable offensive foul call.3 of his shots tied the game, his ft’s gave them a 1 point lead and his other FG gave them a 3pt lead at the time.  

    Yeah, this wasn’t on Melo

  148. d-mar

    Can we please stop with the “we’re in for 5 years of mediocrity” “five more years without a championship” stuff? At the beginning of the season with Amare, we all said it’s a must that we make the playoffs, and we will. Then we added Melo, and suddenly we have no chance to ever win a championship and will never improve? This home and home fiasco was awful, but to project long term doom for this franchise is just plain idiotic.

  149. BigBlueAL

    OK went back and read the comments and apparently what he was mad at Jeffries for not passing him the ball on the final play?? Didnt notice that but still could care less. Melo was great down the stretch along with TD.

  150. BigBlueAL

    d-mar: Can we please stop with the “we’re in for 5 years of mediocrity” “five more years without a championship” stuff? At the beginning of the season with Amare, we all said it’s a must that we make the playoffs, and we will. Then we added Melo, and suddenly we have no chance to ever win a championship and will never improve? This home and home fiasco was awful, but to project long term doom for this franchise is just plain idiotic.  

    Especially considering nobody has a clue on what the new CBA will look like plus the fact the Knicks will have some flexibility in the 2012 off-season regardless.

    People forget that Chandler is a restricted FA this year and Gallo will be in 2012. Plus like Billups Felton is a FA in 2012 too. Keeping the same team by the 2012 off-season wouldnt exactly have given the Knicks much more if any more cap space.

  151. outoftowner

    d-mar: Can we please stop with the “we’re in for 5 years of mediocrity” “five more years without a championship” stuff? At the beginning of the season with Amare, we all said it’s a must that we make the playoffs, and we will. Then we added Melo, and suddenly we have no chance to ever win a championship and will never improve? This home and home fiasco was awful, but to project long term doom for this franchise is just plain idiotic.  

    Do you really think there’s a chance the Knicks can win a championship in the next 5 years with a core of Amare/Melo?

  152. Jim Cavan

    outoftowner: Do you really think there’s a chance the Knicks can win a championship in the next 5 years with a core of Amare/Melo?

    Why not? They’ve definitely given themselves a smaller margin of error with respect to their lone draft pick and prospective free-agent signings. But even if you assume the new CBA will be neutral — to the extent that it’s similar to today’s — those are still two very good pieces to build around. And I feel either CP3 or DWill would try and make it work financially (knowing the potential endorsements, and knowing the Knicks average 78 books written per championship). WHILE still leaving enough room for a decent fill-out (which hopefully includes future President Landry Fields).

    “I feel like we all got to take a good look in the mirror and redefine ourselves. We got to take more pride in defense.” — Extra E, after tonight’s game (emphasis mine)

    I think that’s the first time any Knick player has been that overt in pointing out how seriously we need to take this issue. Granted, he was on the receiving end of Danny Grainger’s jumper, and, being a reserve-and-sometimes-starter, no one will take him that seriously anyway. But he knows, more than anyone else, that he shouldn’t have gotten caught in that switch. “Redefine” is a pretty strong word. Why can’t it stick?

  153. The Infamous Cdiggy

    outoftowner:
    This team will not win a championship in the next five years, but I can’t believe anyone thinks that the Melo trade is the reason for that.There was zero chance even before the Melo trade that the Knicks were going to win a championship anytime soon.I was against the Jared Jeffries trade, because that’s where we lost the ability to build through the lottery if we missed on Lebron James.I was against signing Amare, because that put us in no man’s land (5-8 seed) for 5 years, meaning we have to wait even longer for a real rebuilding.By the Carmelo trade, it didn’t matter anymore.The Knicks weren’t going to be able to rebuild over the next 5 years anyway.Carmelo doesn’t change that.You guys who are furious at the Melo trade should have been furious back when we gave up our future for a 1% shot at Lebron James.  

    It was about 1% because LeBron, DWade and Bosh had their lil plan mapped out all along, but we did not know this at the time. Plus LeBron had, at worst, been flirting with us, or at best, did NOTHING to deter New York (the team AND the city) from recruiting him. So we definitely didn’t know at the time that it was a 1% chance and that we were about to be duped. We thought we had a fairly legit shot at a once-in-a-generation player, and we got in position to get him (and an all-star running mate… anyone doesn’t think STAT and LeBron wouldn’t have been downright filthy??). He declined; Donnie Walsh went with Plans B, C, D, etc. It is what it is.

    There’s more than one way to win an NBA Title, even if you don’t have a Kobe or LeBron or Wade on your team. As Art Vandelay said, this is Year 1 of the rebuilding process. We’ve seen that pretty much any NBA player can get traded for the right price/situation. And maybe MD’A isn’t ultimately the long term plan for coach (I didn’t think so when he was hired). Let’s see…

  154. outoftowner

    I understand the logic of the Jared Jeffries trade, but I think even back then it was very unlikely that Lebron would sign here. They did a poll of ESPN writers after the season and I don’t think any of them picked NY – it was all Chicago, Cleveland, and Miami.

    Really its the idea of the quick fix, which the Knicks have been trying to do since they traded for Glen Rice. The franchise has always looked for a quick fix rather than just rebuilding. This isn’t a rebuilding process, its just another quick fix.

  155. dsulz

    d-mar: to project long term doom for this franchise is just plain idiotic.

    The big difference between this team and the previous team was honestly cap space. The previous team was not better than the team we had now. I personally liked them better, but I see how Anthony gives us something we simply didn’t have. That said, we’re not THAT MUCH better than the previous team AND we have MUCH LESS CAP SPACE. A big part of the unhappiness during the last 10 years was not just our mediocrity, it was our bloated salary roster that left us little room to manuever. At some point we were going to cash in that extra salary cap room, okay, I get that. But I still feel like the way we did it really stunk–I will never understand why we didn’t just call Melo’s bluff (which is further exacerbated learning that Utah was waiting in the wings to deal D-Wil to whoever didn’t get Melo). What I can say about the Melo deal–with no disrespect to Melo or Billups–is that the deal did not feel natural to me at all, it felt extremely impulsive. Maybe it works out in the end. But there’s a reason why so many commentors were/are queasy about the Melo deal going down: we had almost decade of trades that–while never netting a player of Melo’s caliber, true–nevertheless had the same impulsive, short-sighted vibe. I was really willing to be patient and wait for a second star to come to us (or even just a decent big man would have done a lot) without blowing up our core. Again, maybe it works out. But as latke said a few weeks back, it felt bad karmically at the time. And every time we lose games like this (twice in a row!) it brings those initial fears back.

  156. hoolahoop

    I found out a way to enjoy these losses. Don’t watch them. I left after the first half to see the Allman Bros at the Beacon. Catch them if you can.
    Anyway, I really enjoy the recap through the posts on here.

  157. hoolahoop

    Jake S.: And sorry, is this site so sacred that you can’t rag on the Knicks when they play like dogshit? Isn’t that half the battle with this miserable organization? I’m not dogging any commenters here.  

    Jake, there are a few a-holes here that will attack you for saying the knicks suck. Don’t let them scare you off.

  158. BigBlueAL

    dsulz:
    The big difference between this team and the previous team was honestly cap space.The previous team was not better than the team we had now.I personally liked them better, but I see how Anthony gives us something we simply didn’t have.That said, we’re not THAT MUCH better than the previous team AND we have MUCH LESS CAP SPACE.A big part of the unhappiness during the last 10 years was not just our mediocrity, it was our bloated salary roster that left us little room to manuever.At some point we were going to cash in that extra salary cap room, okay, I get that.But I still feel like the way we did it really stunk–I will never understand why we didn’t just call Melo’s bluff (which is further exacerbated learning that Utah was waiting in the wings to deal D-Wil to whoever didn’t get Melo).What I can say about the Melo deal–with no disrespect to Melo or Billups–is that the deal did not feel natural to me at all, it felt extremely impulsive.Maybe it works out in the end.But there’s a reason why so many commentors were/are queasy about the Melo deal going down: we had almost decade of trades that–while never netting a player of Melo’s caliber, true–nevertheless had the same impulsive, short-sighted vibe.I was really willing to be patient and wait for a second star to come to us (or even just a decent big man would have done a lot) without blowing up our core.Again, maybe it works out.But as latke said a few weeks back, it felt bad karmically at the time.And every time we lose games like this (twice in a row!) it brings those initial fears back.  

    As someone who has defended the trade for the most part I totally understand your point and cant say I disagree with this. Just wish that all of the people who hate on the trade and Melo would be this sensible with their criticisms and not be so outrageous.

  159. hoolahoop

    BigBlueAL: I dont get the criticizing of Melo at the end of the game.What am I missing??He hit his last 4 shots and went 2 for 2 from the FT line in that span as well.Had did have 1 turnover on a questionable offensive foul call.3 of his shots tied the game, his ft’s gave them a 1 point lead and his other FG gave them a 3pt lead at the time.  

    I can answer that without seeing the second half.

    Because melo’s a ball stopping, ball-hogging, chucker who bullied his way onto this team while making sure he got all of his additional 65 million dollars regardless of what knick players were given up to get him, and the team is marginally improved, if at all, and a lot less fun to watch and root for.

  160. dsulz

    BigBlueAL: Just wish that all of the people who hate on the trade and Melo would be this sensible with their criticisms and not be so outrageous.

    We have won some good games, some games I definitely think we wouldn’t have won with our previous unit. But right now we’re 6-6 in the Melo era. A win against a shitty team counts for just in the standings as much as a win against a good team. And good teams win consistently. Until we do that I don’t see how anyone can say that we ARE a good team. Maybe we can be. But right now we’re just a .500 team that doesn’t play defense and can’t rebound. Overall though, I will say that I agree with some previous comments on here: the playoffs this year will tell the tale. If the Knicks lie down, get swept, or are clearly outmatched, the bad karma fears will continue. If, however, they show some fucking guts and really challenge a team in the first round, maybe even win, then that will buy a lot more faith from me than any of these regular season swings can give or take away. But we can’t just make the playoffs, I reject that. We have to do more to make this feel right. Not necessarily win our first round matchup. But we have to make it interesting. That’s my bar.

  161. Brian Cronin

    I am glad I missed this one. I was at a Pogues concert at Terminal 5.

    A few thoughts…

    1. The Knicks played poorly, but that’s about it. You can’t dwell on individual wins or losses too much.

    2. The Pacers fans booed Extra E? What the hell? Did anyone in Indiana really even give a crap about Extra E before this year?

    3. Did you folks hear the story that came out about how the Clippers assistant coach (Dunleavy’s top assistant – he was the interim coach when Dunleavy was fired), Kim Hughes, wanted to get cancer surgery a few years back but it was going to take awhile before the surgery would happen with the doctors that the Clippers paid for, so Hughes got another doctor to do the surgery quicker, but he had to go out of pocket to pay for it (as it turned out, his cancer had spread faster than expected, so had he waited, things might have not gone well) and Dunleavy mentioned it to the players and they actually paid for the $70,000 surgery! Corey Maggette was the main guy who paid for it. How neat is that? What an awesome story.

  162. Nick C.

    If you wan tto hear haterade or histrionics you shoudl have beeen unfortunate enough to be drivign in and listening the Rucco and Lundberg early “should coach be fired” as Q of the day? ie: this loss was on the defense. Like WTF on every level. Between ginning up the blowhards and then the media to being oblivious to reality of the composition of the roster. They were pimping the trade for months well now they will bitch about the D. You can’t have it both ways.

    I know Billups is all that but can he take it easy with the bring it up and shoot plays.

  163. daJudge

    Brian, that is a very uplifting story. I do remember Kim Hughes a bit in college. Also, I used to love the Pogues, but didn’t their awesome lead singer die? Pogues=truly cool music.

  164. Brian Cronin

    The Pogues’ lead singer is still alive. He seems like he’s dead, but he’s still technically alive!

  165. d-mar

    Billups made an interesting point about the defense after the game, pointing out that when TD goes above the screens, it frees up guys like Collison for 12 foot jumpers, which is his strength. I don’t think he was calling out TD, but that is the root of the Knicks problem- – once a high screen is set, the whole defense breaks down. I don’t think it’s necessarily our one on one defense (look, if Hibbert’s gonna make contested lefty jump hooks he’s gonna do that on any defender) but how we defend as a team. Every once in a while, Jeffries will leave his man and show to slow the ball handler on the screen, and if you watch Boston, that’s what KG does all the time. You can’t just let guys pull up for uncontested 12 ft. jumpers.

  166. Nick C.

    what is above the screen? is that a situation where TD is guarding Collison and a screen is set and going above = staying with Collison but the screen gives him a second or so to dribble and shoot. If so, that’s interesting, b/c there is constant grousing about going under the screen and leaving the ballhandler wide open to shoot.

  167. art vandelay

    The point earlier, not sure who said it, about all of the experts picking LBJ to go to chicago at the end of the season is someone irrelevant to the jeffries trade because at the time of the trade last season it was considered a foregone conclusion around the trade deadline that james would either stay in cleveland or go to NY…chicago didn[t even enter the equation until AFTER cleveland lost in the playoffs and broussard started to heavily report that he was leaning there….until cleveland bowed out I think everyone, including knicks staff, that it was between cleveland and NYC and they made the jeffries trade based on that information.

  168. GHenman

    Nick C.: what is above the screen? is that a situation where TD is guarding Collison and a screen is set and going above = staying with Collison but the screen gives him a second or so to dribble and shoot. If so, that’s interesting, b/c there is constant grousing about going under the screen and leaving the ballhandler wide open to shoot.  (Quote)

    A truly good defensive point guard will make the decision to go over or under the screen based on the offensive players ability to shoot. TD always tries to go over the screen. I think this plays into some players strengths. I’d rather give Collison the open jumper than allow him to penetrate into the lane.

  169. latke

    Nick C.: what is above the screen? is that a situation where TD is guarding Collison and a screen is set and going above = staying with Collison but the screen gives him a second or so to dribble and shoot.If so, that’s interesting, b/c there is constant grousing about going under the screen and leaving the ballhandler wide open to shoot.  

    If the big is so slow to help, then yes, you give up a lot of open 10 footers (or worse, layups after the guard penetrates and dishes). If you go under the screen, you give up the open 22-24 footer — the one we enjoyed watching Felton miss so often. I don’t think Billups was saying going over the screen is bad, just that when the help defense is atrocious, you probably ARE better off going under.

  170. GHenman

    When Boston defends the pnr, it seems like they are able to rotate players so that the worst shot they give up is an open jumper to their opponents worst shooter. That kind of execution has to come from coaching and time together. Hopefully it is an area where we can improve.

  171. G

    @295

    Yeah, Steven A.’s article annoyed me the same way. He screamed for us to give up anything and everything to get Melo (including parts of 7th Avenue and almost everyone who defended at least decently), and now he wants D’Antoni fired because our defense sucks–and of course he says nothing about the trade he wanted. Forgetting whether he’s right or wrong about D’Antoni or the defense, his hypocrisy is just too much to take.

  172. GHenman

    Next season D’Antoni really will be on the hot seat since there won’t be any significant player moves left to make.

  173. Thomas B.

    hoolahoop:

    Jake, there are a few a-holes here that will attack you for saying the knicks suck. Don’t let them scare you off.  

    (Quote)

    You are understating the proplem here. I was here during the Brown and Thomas era. Everyone wrote that the team sucked back then, myself included. So it is not the words “Knicks suck” that is the problem. The problem really comes from three things.
    1. Lack of Perspective.
    Is this year’s team a title contender? Probably not. But they are (for now) above .500. Plus they can get wins over some top teams. This was not the case with the Brown or Thomas led teams. Those teams deserved to be called sucky. This team is better described as “flawed in many areas and often plays below expectations.” Drop the doom and gloom 5 year mediocrity predictions. Two years ago who knew we’d get a steal like Fields. So anything can happen.
    2. Supporting info
    Say the defense stinks if you want but offer specifics to support what you say. You have great stats available to you right here, use them. Instead of “the defense sucks” try “the defensive switches need adjustments” or “A shot blocker would really help.”
    3. Timing and balance
    Don’t just show up after a loss or bad play to say “Knicks suck.” Frankly, this is annoying and designed to upset loyal fans at a vulnerable moment. Don’t just sit on your keyboard when Melo sinks a game winner. If you cheer as hard as you complain, people wont think you are a troll.

  174. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    Thomas B.:
    Two years ago who knew we’d get a steal like Fields.  

    I did, but that was only a year ago. I also knew Lawson was a future NBA starter (and a damn good one under rookie contract) and Blair was going to be a dominant rebounder (although I did not know that the best team over the last 15 years would end up with him).

    So if I had my way, the team would look something like this:

    PG: Lawson
    SG: Fields
    SF: Gallinari
    PF: Blair
    C: Anyone who could play a lick of defense. Probably would have went after Tyson Chandler

    No star power though, so they’d probably lose 50.

  175. hoolahoop

    Thomas B.: ………………..
    Don’t just show up after a loss or bad play to say “Knicks suck.” Frankly, this is annoying and designed to upset loyal fans at a vulnerable moment.Don’t just sit on your keyboard when Melo sinks a game winner.If you cheer as hard as you complain, people wont think you are a troll.  

    What Jake said was totally fair and his right to say it. Just because he doesn’t post as often as you or someone else doesn’t mean he has any less rights or is any less of a fan.
    Furthermore, these jerk-offs, who often make excuses for knicks, no matter how terribly they play, think that only they, themselves, are allowed to criticize, or will tell you exactly the proper way to criticize.
    These same criticizers (I call them apologists) make some of the most asinine comments known to mankind.

    C’mon. This is a fan forum. Lighten up and tolerate others’ opinions.

  176. Thomas B.

    hoolahoop:

    What Jake said was totally fair and his right to say it. Just because he doesn’t post as often as you or someone else doesn’t mean he has any less rights or is any less of a fan.
    Furthermore, these jerk-offs, who often make excuses for knicks, no matter how terribly they play, think that only they, themselves, are allowed to criticize, or will tell you exactly the proper way to criticize.
    These same criticizers (I call them apologists) make some of the most asinine comments known to mankind.

    C’mon. This is a fan forum. Lighten up and tolerate others’ opinions.  

    (Quote)

    I never wrote that there was no place for your (or Jake’s) opinion here, so I think I have been tolerant. I was just trying to give instruction on how to have meaningful and productive discourse. I am sorry that you missed my intentions. I’ll just move on. All the best to you and Jake.

  177. hoolahoop

    Thomas B.:
    I never wrote that there was no place for your opinion here, so I think I have been tolerant.I was just trying to give instruction on how to have meaningful and productive discourse.I am sorry that you missed my intentions.I’ll just move on. All the best to you.  

    That’s cool. We’re all knick fans with a lot of different points of view. It’s okay to respectfully critique ideas and opinions, not people.

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