Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Saturday, November 22, 2014

2011 Game Thread: Knicks @ Magic

For your game thoughts.

247 comments on “2011 Game Thread: Knicks @ Magic

  1. jon abbey

    people should know by now that D’Antoni tries to make the other team match up with him, not the other way around. it’s infuriating at times, but that’s what he does.

    anyone want to try to explain this quote?

    “”He’s a winner,” Knicks coach Mike D’Antoni said of Jeffries”

    maybe he means in cards on the team plane?

  2. John Kenney

    Question: Why wouldn’t we sign arroyo? First time we played against the heat he did a good job running point… was benched by other games I think. Just curious, I havn’t put much thought into it or checked his stats

  3. Jim Cavan

    I think maybe he means a winning attitude. Considering Mason Jr.’s still around, I guess that carries weight… And he averaged 16 and 7 for an Indiana team that lost in the NCAA finals!

  4. jon abbey

    yes, I’m sure that one playoff series Jeffries won back in 2005 will come in really handy on a team where the top 3 guys have all led their teams to the conference finals in the last two seasons (and Billups played in a remarkable seven straight conference finals before last season).

    anyway, there are some OK reasons to want Jeffries (I guess), but he is hardly a “winner”.

  5. mhpjay

    I think the plan is to let Supes score 50 and shut down the perimeter game. I dont know why though. The Magic has one of the worst 3P% in the league. Either way, we have enough offensive firepower to outscore them.

  6. latke

    mhpjay: I think the plan is to let Supes score 50 and shut down the perimeter game.I dont know why though.The Magic has one of the worst 3P% in the league.Either way, we have enough offensive firepower to outscore them.  

    The magic shoot an average percentage from 3 and make the most in the league (yes, more than the knicks). Bass and Howard are pretty the only guys in the rotation that don’t take 3s.

    Howard is the only reason their defense is so good. I don’t think it’s a bad plan to force Howard to the perimeter or to guard Amare. If we don’t make it hard for him, he’ll dominate the game defensively. IMO, his defense is more valuable then his offense. Look at the Magic’s roster. Him and Bass are the only guys who are plus defenders, and yet they are 4th in the league in FG% defense.

    Weird thing — based on their point differential, they should have 4 more wins than they do (which would put them tied with Chicago).

  7. Robert Silverman

    I don’t mind Extra E starting at all. Turiaf can’t defend Howard one-on-one, so why not try to exploit the matchup on the other end and force Howard out of the paint.

  8. DRed

    jon abbey: yes, I’m sure that one playoff series Jeffries won back in 2005 will come in really handy on a team where the top 3 guys have all led their teams to the conference finals in the last two seasons (and Billups played in a remarkable seven straight conference finals before last season).
    anyway, there are some OK reasons to want Jeffries (I guess), but he is hardly a “winner”.  

    He won the Indiana Mr. Basketball award. That’s just factorial.

  9. Robert Silverman

    My pop (85 years old/60 years of watching the ‘Bockers) says Billups is the closest player to Frazier he’s seen on the team

  10. erobes

    I like how hard we’re fighting. Against a much bigger team, no one looks intimidated.

  11. Spree8nyk8

    only in the nba can you get a whistle on friday and the basket counts on saturday…

  12. latke

    man, i wonder what the record for free throw attempts is. Howard heading for about 30 of them, and it will only get worse if we end up having to put balkman or shawne williams on him.

  13. Jim Cavan

    Look, I understand the strategy of letting Howard get his. But not 17 in a quarter. You just can’t give up that spin on the low box for the oop. Make him catch it with his back to the basket and make a move. Trust that Ewing is secretly teaching him horrible footwork.

  14. Robert Silverman

    latke: man, i wonder what the record for free throw attempts is. Howard heading for about 30 of them, and it will only get worse if we end up having to put balkman or shawne williams on him.  

    Jared Jeffries to the rescue!!! (sarcasm)

  15. Count de Pennies

    Making Howard beat you from the line is usually a decent strategy… only tonight he’s shooting FTs as if he were Billups

  16. art vandelay

    again, I don’t know how many times I have said this before but…1) knicks must give up 60% shooting on avg in first quarter this season AT LEAST…and 2) no one is worse at hitting that floater than douglas

  17. Jim Cavan

    You know, you’d think with Patrick Ewing as your personal coach you’d learn to, I don’t know, put arc on your free throws?

  18. cgreene

    i don’t think i have seen melo make one mid ranger since i’ve been watching (missed the first 2 games).

    has he?

  19. Spree8nyk8

    Apparently Jeffries is going to be #9 and Derrick Brown will be #8 so the knicks will have a 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8, and 9 lol

  20. Robert Silverman

    Spree8nyk8: Apparently Jeffries is going to be #9 and Derrick Brown will be #8 so the knicks will have a 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8, and 9 lol  

    I think that’s the first sign of Ragnarok – the war of the Nordic Gods!~

  21. Jim Cavan

    Robert Silverman: Um, how does Stat have ZERO rebounds?  

    I don’t know which is more incredible, that, or the fact that we’re actually outrebounding them as a team.

  22. dmull

    That play where they either give it to Amare just above the elbow or Amare screens for Chauncey in the same area and Melo runs a curl off a screen on the weakside is such bread and butter.

  23. Jim Cavan

    Boy, for as much as Stoudemire complains, Howard just constantly cries like a little girl. I can totally see how he leads the league in Ts.

  24. Frank O.

    jon abbey: yes, I’m sure that one playoff series Jeffries won back in 2005 will come in really handy on a team where the top 3 guys have all led their teams to the conference finals in the last two seasons (and Billups played in a remarkable seven straight conference finals before last season).
    anyway, there are some OK reasons to want Jeffries (I guess), but he is hardly a “winner”.  

    Stickler.
    :)

  25. Robert Silverman

    I’d actually kinda like Anthony Carter, if I didn’t still associate him with the late 90’s Heat

  26. Kikuchiyo

    Earl Clark’s shot was about the worst shot I’ve seen in a professional basketball game since….Earl Clark’s similar shot in the first quarter.

    Eesh.

  27. Garson

    Melo should try wearing a #15 jersey under his #7 – Harrington starting to seep in to his game.

  28. latke

    Funny thing is Carter looked just as old back with the heat as he does now. The defense got a ton better with him on the floor. He also is good at keeping the ball moving. He was +18 in 10:30. Fields has 7 rebounds. Turiaf definitely turned up the defensive intensity as well. He forced Howard into a couple of tough shots. That block was impressive.

  29. taggart4800

    Just to put it out there. Thats a 23 point swing in one quarter against the 4th seed , thats not to say we have acheived anything but its still impressive.

  30. Robert Silverman

    Frank O.:
    Yep…not your typical basketball blog…:)  

    Wait until we play Indiana. I’m going to bust out my “Jeff Foster is the spitting image of Jello Biafra (of the seminal punk rock band, The Dead Kennedys)” comparison

  31. Nick C.

    Wow!!! Is it too soon to get excited about this team’s prospects come playoff time? As for the game it seems as though Amare or Melo are always in with the bench. Carter sure gets a lot of deflections and Predator even hot some boards.

  32. dmull

    @72 lol, so true.

    Fields has come up with some big boards, he’s looked out of rhythm shooting it, Melo (I know most of you will gasp) actually found him a couple times for good looks and he wasn’t close. If he gets comfortable again and starts hitting shots to go along with his rebounding it’s going to be so hard to stop.

    Bill Walker also gave a nice lift for as long as he could hold off from gaining 3 fouls, which wasn’t long. He can basically be Wilson Chandler.

    So….looks like the second team might be better than a lot of people thought, who would’ve thunk it.

  33. Frank O.

    Robert Silverman:
    Wait until we play Indiana. I’m going to bust out my “Jeff Foster is the spitting image of Jello Biafra (of the seminal punk rock band, The Dead Kennedys)” comparison  

    Robert Silverman:
    Wait until we play Indiana. I’m going to bust out my “Jeff Foster is the spitting image of Jello Biafra (of the seminal punk rock band, The Dead Kennedys)” comparison  

    Excellent

  34. Frank O.

    I have said this from the day we heard about the trade, Billups is a key piece.
    The man is such a pro. He has become my favorite Knick.
    Robert, your dad is dead on. Chauncey is just so sure and so cool.

  35. taggart4800

    Im pretty happy with one guy sucking if the other two are clicking. Boston function that way the whole time and they seem to do just fine (not for a second saying we are there yet!).
    I like the older presence on this team as it makes the ‘Stars’ honest. Billups seem to do a great job as the veteran leader on the team and sets the tone whenever he is in. Although entirely an assumption, you would imagine he has the total respect of even Anthony and Amare as a result of his outstanding record. Therefore if he backs up what MDA has to say then other players will listen.

  36. massive

    Carmelo Anthony really needs to work on that efficiency. 5-13, and last on the team in terms of +/- at -9. I still hold out hope that he’ll improve though. Great to see that even though the Knicks aren’t getting optimal efficiency from their 2nd star tonight, we’re still convincingly beating Orlando tonight. I guess our role players really aren’t that bad.

    Chauncey Billups and Landry Fields in the backcourt is really a revelation. 3-4 years ago it was Marbury and Crawford. Now, we likely have the NBA’s 2nd best starting back court behind the Spurs. Is there a team (outside of San Antonio) with a better backcourt than us? Maybe Portland I guess, but I think you can argue it either way.

  37. dubisaweapon

    what a great second quarter, and how crazy is it that anthony carter is becoming so effective for us. let’s hope we can keep this up,,

  38. Unreason

    There was clearly something wrong with my TV. It looked like the Knicks were playing D 2 games in row.

  39. Frank O.

    The D combo of Carter and Douglas has been pretty dynamic also. they have really made them uncomfortable.

  40. Doug

    Extra E looks like Sisyphus trying to keep Dwight out of the low post. But it seems to be working…

  41. Doug

    Nelson is the only guy on the Magic who can keep up with the Knicks’ pace. SVG calling the timeout proves it.

  42. Brian Cronin

    It’s amazing how Carter has, like, fallen out of thin air. Amazing. They shouldn’t play him with Turiaf or Sheldon Williams, though, as that’s two guys the other team doesn’t have to guard.

  43. Unreason

    Been an AC fan since he played for HI, (except for his stint with the Heat). He’s all effort and attitude.

  44. dubisaweapon

    We totally fleeced Denver in that trade – Melo, Billups, AND Anthony Carter…

  45. Robert Silverman

    Here comes the run…

    FYI – Guokas on NBAtv is openly pulling for the Magic (a team he used to coach). It’s really sad

  46. Frank O.

    D Howard has a small head
    put his head with Williams’ and you get a normal sized head

  47. Spree8nyk8

    Robert Silverman: For those watching on NBAtv, Goukas is just awful  

    Yeah, he just said that Orlando (despite being down by 4) had the Knicks “on the ropes”

  48. dubisaweapon

    Spree8nyk8:
    Yeah, he just said that Orlando (despite being down by 4) had the Knicks “on the ropes”  

    We are officially getting hated on. I say “bring it”

  49. Frank O.

    Robert Silverman: Here comes the run…FYI – Guokas on NBAtv is openly pulling for the Magic (a team he used to coach). It’s really sad  

    seriously. all night they have been talking Howard, Howard, Howard.
    Knicks are up by 11. they’re showing the Howard dunk show.
    At half the Knicks are pounding them, we get a five minute thing on howard and how they magic could beat the knicks.
    Piss me off

  50. Frank O.

    And then McHale says he starting to like this team (the Knicks) more than I thought I would…
    Christ

  51. Unreason

    Frank O.: seriously. all night they have been talking Howard, Howard, Howard.Knicks are up by 11. they’re showing the Howard dunk show.At half the Knicks are pounding them, we get a five minute thing on howard and how they magic could beat the knicks.Piss me off  (Quote)

    Well… not sure we wanna get loved up by those guys anyhow.

  52. Robert Silverman

    wait – it may be the feed from the Magic broadcast. Not “unbiased” announcers.

  53. dmull

    Melo has definitely taken some poor shots tonight, it’s something we’re going to have to live with. Like many have said I don’t mind the aggressive bad ones, even the threes which he’s not good at…it’s those long range J’s, often with a hand in the face and/or off-balance. But lost in all of that, and hidden in the statistics, is that Melo has been making some very good passes tonight when giving it up, Fields bricked a couple open looks from 3 from him, he’s hit a few cutters and that skip pass has set up a few wide open 3’s (that were all clanked) from the weakside corner. That’s an amazingly difficult thing to do that only his attention and size allow for.

  54. Frank O.

    when was the last time you saw a guy shoot a three, an airball, that’s too long?
    Carter should play D….and not shoot.

  55. erobes

    It looks like hes forcing things more when amare is on the bench. Could be that he feels more pressure to carry the offense. With amare in he seems to play within the flow of the offense much better.

  56. Unreason

    Frank O.: when was the last time you saw a guy shoot a three, an airball, that’s too long?Carter should play D….and not shoot.  (Quote)

    Yeah, not a strength.

  57. taggart4800

    Does anyone think Melo could utilise LeBrons method of tkaing the ball away from the 3 point line, sizing up his man and building a head of steam on his dribble. He gets caught to often flat footed with the ball behind his head.

  58. Frank O.

    The announcers are spending all their time speaking about How the Magic could win this.
    Simplify the offense, get the ball to howard down low…

  59. Frank O.

    dmull: @128 – Should he have let the clock expire instead?  

    Actually, yes. He should catch the ball and just walk off the court because it’s just terrible. Not much difference…:)

  60. rohank

    ARGH my atdhenet.tv internet feed gave out. Did it happen to anyone else and if so, any alternatives?

  61. Frank O.

    rohank: ARGH my atdhenet.tv internet feed gave out. Did it happen to anyone else and if so, any alternatives?  

    not a bad time to miss a few minutes. knicks are playing poorly at the moment

  62. Spree8nyk8

    Fucking leaguepass is bullshit, why the fuck are so many god damn games blacked out.

  63. Spree8nyk8

    TY sir.

    Frank O.:
    game on nba tv  

    Yeah, a channel not available on my cable provider, thus it should not be blacked out.

  64. Spree8nyk8

    I think Goukas just jizzed himself when Richardson hit that three after Melo got mugged on the other side of the court (with no whistle)

  65. Spree8nyk8

    taggart4800: why does melo not find stat there??????  

    Well if you were getting hit by 3 people you’d probably throw it up to the hoop expecting the whistle

  66. Frank O.

    Amare is the only guy doing it tonight

    But swear to god, NBA TV is and Orlando station

  67. Frank O.

    what did I say earlier about the Knicks having shooters having a renaissance against them…?

  68. Unreason

    Odd that with two guys that drive the lane as much as Stat and Melo, Howard only has 1 pf at this point in the game… be nice if he were a lot closer to fouling out.

  69. Spree8nyk8

    Will ANYONE please stop the fucking ball. Don’t just let this fucking scrub drive to the hoop every time

  70. Frank O.

    Are the Knicks even playing or is this a Magic practice, because the announcers are basically talking about the Magic only

  71. Robert Silverman

    Frank O.: Are the Knicks even playing or is this a Magic practice, because the announcers are basically talking about the Magic only  

    It’s NBAtv piping in the Magic broadcast. Not as egregious, but they are serious homers.

  72. Spree8nyk8

    Well we choked this game away, but all the “pull Melo” stuff is asinine. He’s the best clutch shooter in the game, you don’t pull him out in crunch time I don’t care what kind of game he’s had.

  73. rohank

    Amway center crowd is absolutely loving it?

    yeah, if by “absolutely loving it” you mean “mildly happy”

  74. crazchino

    I said it last two times they played the magic, and i’ll say it again…
    Howard moves on almost ALL of his fuckin’ picks. WHY THE FUCK is he not called for it? and now cuz of that Mr Big Shot’s got a bum leg.

  75. TheXman

    prob glad i didn’t watch this whole game and just caught the last 5 min, looks like we were up around 10 with 2 min left in the 3rd quarter. Oh well we weren’t supposed to win anyways.

  76. rohank

    TheXman: chauncey out, if he’s out of the season, we will miss the playoffs  

    From the replay, I think he either bruised his thigh or knocked knees with howard. Either one would hurt I’m sure, but I doubt it’s a serious injury. Most likely, he just didn’t have enough time to recover before the end of the game.

  77. itztiz

    Jameer Nelson couldn’t be stopped. Hopin’ Billups injury isn’t serious. Win some lose some. We all knew defensively Billups will have guards that can flat out outplay him. JJ would’ve at least hit him a couple times to keep him honest. The ball didn’t drop in the fourth happens I still feel good after this game.

  78. Frank O.

    Landry 1-5 from three
    Melo 1-5 from three
    Williams 0-3
    Douglas 0-3

    I mean, the shooters just sucked tonight.

  79. TheXman

    Spree8nyk8: think he either bruised his thigh or knocked knees with howard. Either one would hurt I’m sure, but I doubt it’s a serious injury. Most likely, he just didn’t have enough time to recover before

    Did you just not see TD in the last 2 minutes? You really don’t think it’s out of the realm of possibility that they miss the playoffs with TD as their PG? I mean he freaking single handedly destroyed the knicks in the last minute with his boneheaded plays. I don’t know how much more of his inconsistency I can take.

  80. taggart4800

    Tough loss. Of course the ‘Pull Melo’ comment was a little tongue in cheek but he cost us this game to be honest. I think had we had a better 3 pt threat and better floor spacing we could have held our own down the stretch, especially if Douglas had been brought in earlier to guard Nelson. So maybe it is really MDA poor coaching that killed us tonight

  81. Spree8nyk8

    TheXman:
    Did you just not see TD in the last 2 minutes?You really don’t think it’s out of the realm of possibility that they miss the playoffs with TD as their PG?I mean he freaking single handedly destroyed the knicks in the last minute with his boneheaded plays.I don’t know how much more of his inconsistency I can take.  

    Yes it is completely out of the fucking realm of possibility that we’d miss the playoffs. If Amar’e goes down for the rest of the season, we’ll still make the fucking playoffs. Use your head.

  82. massive

    Melo wouldn’t have cost us the game if the refs weren’t hosing him all night. He could have got mauled by a bear and the refs wouldn’t have blown the whistle.

  83. Robert Silverman

    X, Spree, take it down a notch. Tough loss – no need to snipe at each other

  84. TheXman

    Spree8nyk8: fucking realm of possibility that we’d miss the playoffs. If Amar’e goes down for the rest of the

    Not that the knicks have anyone who can replace Amare, Chauncey is the most important player on this team, that’s all I’m saying. Can ‘Melo be coached in shot selection? Can D’antoni possibly coach him to change his habits?

  85. Jim Cavan

    Man, that one’s tough to swallow. For whatever reason, Orlando pisses me off more than any other team except maybe LA and Miami. If Billups is so much as hobbled getting on the team bus I truly hope Howard has a date with some filthy karma for sticking his leg out like that.

    Win tomorrow would be huge. We all know how swell we fare on the 2nd night of back to backs. I don’t know if my brain could process 3 losses to Cleveland.

  86. Spree8nyk8

    TheXman:
    Not that the knicks have anyone who can replace Amare, Chauncey is the most important player on this team, that’s all I’m saying.Can ‘Melo be coached in shot selection?Can D’antoni possibly coach him to change his habits?  

    Charlotte is seven games under .500 Thats the team that would have to pass us for us to miss the playoffs.

  87. art vandelay

    at home next 2 against NO and Cleveland…GOt to have those ballgames and go to 32-28 before atlanta game imho

  88. Jake S.

    Watching Toney Douglas run the point is driving me slowly insane. Any chance of the Knicks adding Carlos Arroyo? Anybody but this guy.

  89. Jim Cavan

    TheXman: Not that the knicks have anyone who can replace Amare, Chauncey is the most important player on this team, that’s all I’m saying. Can ‘Melo be coached in shot selection? Can D’antoni possibly coach him to change his habits?

    Bruised left

  90. Unreason

    I think the next 7 are still “learning” games. It sucked to lose this, but it gave MDA more looks at the new guys. Feels a bit like the beginning of the season. Too bad Stat, Melo, and Chauncey didn’t come through. I was kinda expecting that between the three of them two would find a way to pull it out.

  91. Brian Cronin

    I think the next 7 are still “learning” games.

    Agreed.

    That’s why I’m not worried about Melo not adapting yet. He has a lot of time to still do it.

  92. nicos

    Not a good game for Carmelo but the Knicks really have to knock down those corner threes to open up the middle for Stat & Melo- Fields, Williams, and Carter all reluctant to shoot it (and missed when they did) and it led to forced shots by Melo. Horrible, horrible game for Douglas- that AC may wind up taking a lot of his minutes tells you just how bad he’s playing at the moment.

    Credit the Magic for not forcing the ball into Howard every time down the floor in the second half and hitting some big 3’s- especially Ryan Anderson- and then Nelson just going crazy. You’d think D’A would have tried someone else besides Billups on him but TD was so awful (and AC so offensively challenged) that I guess you can’t blame him for sticking with Chauncey.

  93. Brian Cronin

    The problem with the Carter/Toney backcourt is that Carter just doesn’t have any sort of an offensive game, so if Toney doesn’t hit shots, you’re screwed. If Toney does hit his shots, though, they’re an impressive back court because of their defense.

    And it’s nice to see a pass first point guard who isn’t bad like Duhon.

    But man oh man, Extra E and Fields were just bricking open threes.

  94. Unreason

    I’m deluded I’m sure, but in the next couple of games against these guys, it would mean a lot if Amare would at least go to battle with Howard on the boards. He’ll get beat, but there should be more of a cost to Howard. He just owned the boards.

  95. Jim Cavan

    Maybe we make a play for Arroyo, but I doubt it. It makes too much sense. You’d think after the Billups scare we’d do a double take and realize “shit, after TD, we have nobody“.

    I like what Carter’s brought to the table so far, but only in the doses we’ve seen. After TD, I’d just assume let Fields try his hand at point before throwing Carter into heavy minutes.

    As for Melo: yeesh. He wasn’t just off, he was way off. Not sure if the elbow’s bothering him or what. Maybe it’s a good thing, in that he’ll take a step back and kind of let Stat carry the load for a few games while he gets acclimated.

  96. TheXman

    Jake S.: Toney NEVER hits shots.  

    he did have a great game against the bucks, he missed like 2 shots, unfortunately the rest of his games were 10% from the field.

  97. Spree8nyk8

    Just for sake of perspective after the last ten years if you were told that the Knicks would add 10 players to their roster and then swap for six more midseason that they would be 2 games over .500 and labeled as the team nobody wants to play in the first round. I think most would have probably been pretty good with that.

  98. Unreason

    Spree8nyk8: Just for sake of perspective after the last ten years if you were told that the Knicks would add 10 players to their roster and then swap for six more midseason that they would be 2 games over .500 and labeled as the team nobody wants to play in the first round. I think most would have probably been pretty good with that.  (Quote)

    I’m more than good with it. I’m too good with it. It’s taking more of my time than I want. It’s extremely damn fun is what it is.

  99. dsulz

    Well, that was sad. I checked the stats, really hoping to be able to beat my Free-Shelden-Williams drum, but the Magic actually got fewer offensive boards than we did. Ultimately, we let Jameer Nelson beat us down the stretch. It was painful to watch and it showed how tired Billups was getting. We need a better backup for him than TD, just like when we had Felt. Ultimately, that game felt a lot like a game we had at the beginning of the season against the Minnesota Timberwolves. We were up most of the game, then blew it down the stretch. It felt like one of those games where our team was almost suprised at how good it could if it actually tried, and then decided to see how good it was when they didn’t try. And the result was Jameer Nelson turning the Knicks defense into slalom poles as he made shot after shot after shot. End of the day, this was a game we should have won, and didn’t. This could be a useful loss, imo. But a loss is a loss. Good thing Philly lost too.

  100. d-mar

    97 free throws? NBA action – it’s foul-tastic!

    Seriously, we shot 37% FG and 23% from downtown, Howard did his thing, Nelson was completely unconscious and we were in the game until the last few minutes. Not a game to get too upset about. And for a guy who seems like Mr. Nice Guy, Dwight is one dirty ass player.

  101. art vandelay

    I don’t think we want any part of that 4-5 matchup with Orlando anyway…amazingly, we seem to matchup better with Miami and Chicago than Orlando and Atlanta!!!

  102. Jake S.

    I sincerely hope they use the money they have earmarked for Chris Paul to pick up multiple players. It would be incredibly dangerous to try and ride those three for an entire season.

  103. Jake S.

    They might steal a couple of games, but this team isn’t getting out of the first round. I don’t think you can win a playoff series with Bill Walker, Shawne Williams and Toney Douglas playing big time minutes. Even Miami’s flotsam is better than our supporting staff right now.

  104. jon abbey

    that was a dreadfully reffed game, they seemed to go by player’s body language more than what actually happened, which led to a ton of acting all around and a ton of hard contact let go.

    Q of all people turned the game around with his D on Melo after Turkoglu got tossed, but if we get this level of effort every night, we will win a lot of games.

  105. CapB

    I love how you guys only single out melo in this loss. The hate some of you have for him is just mind boggling.

    Need to find someone to back up bill ups other than tony Douglas.

  106. Resounding Rebounding

    Jake S.: They might steal a couple of games, but this team isn’t getting out of the first round. I don’t think you can win a playoff series with Bill Walker, Shawne Williams and Toney Douglas playing big time minutes. Even Miami’s flotsam is better than our supporting staff right now.  (Quote)

    Mami does not have a better bench than us. The problem is virtually all of the players on the bench, along with Landry Fields have gone in to a shooting slump, which makes it look alot worse than it actually is.

  107. tenebrous

    who is extra e? why is d not playing Andy? Melon is not wc. this team is gonna b sick with jef. I like dbrown. sw should b chucking up 15 ft all day long. I Ike the idea of fields and any backing up cb. all they need to do is switch on d and on o at least 8 hands need to touch the ball. Let’s b realistic, d needs to open up the roster and give us fans really two teams – 1st and 3rd qs and 2nd and 4th qs – we have enough vanguard on this team – give everyone equal employments and the fans a chance to c some bball.

  108. BigBlueAL

    tenebrous: who is extra e? why is d not playing Andy? Melon is not wc. this team is gonna b sick with jef. I like dbrown. sw should b chucking up 15 ft all day long. I Ike the idea of fields and any backing up cb. all they need to do is switch on d and on o at least 8 hands need to touch the ball. Let’s b realistic, d needs to open up the roster and give us fans really two teams – 1st and 3rd qs and 2nd and 4th qs – we have enough vanguard on this team – give everyone equal employments and the fans a chance to c some bball.  

    Early candidate for comment of the month.

  109. Brian Cronin

    I love how you guys only single out melo in this loss.

    Huh? Did you read the comments? Toney was getting the brunt of the hate. Extra E was getting a nice chunk, too. And the three-point shooting. And Melo. It was far from Melo being singled out.

  110. Peter87

    Knicks were doing well when Melo was a non-factor, staying up by about 10. When he started forcing shots, it all went down the drain. My nickname for him: MK (Momentum Killer).

    This was a baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad trade.

  111. jon abbey

    Amare with a pitiful 2 total rebounds (0 defensive!!!) gets some blame also.

    God’s alleged gift to basketball Anthony Randolph was a -12 in 14 minutes against the Lakers tonight, and got abusively dunked on a few times by Bynum (his man).

  112. Brian Cronin

    Good article, Mike!

    And while it is certainly worth saying what you said for the sake of a mainstream audience (and you’re absolutely correct in your points), I do think we need to give Melo more time to adjust before giving him too much guff over his inefficiency. I believe someone suggested seven more games. That sounds fair to me. If he’s still playing then the same as he is now, then, well, that will be a problem.

  113. BigBlueAL

    To be honest, you need to give Melo until the beginning of next season (not just Melo but this whole team). They need not only a full training camp but some better bench players which hopefully can be improved on with some cheap veteran FA signings during the off-season and a decent 1st-round draft pick.

    I couldnt see much of tonight’s game but from some stuff Ive read alot of Melo’s misses tonight came when he played with the 2nd team, especially at the end of the 3rd quarter, where he is basically forced to take alot of shots. To me that is a key because when he is with that lineup hell Id rather him shoot everything especially considering how horrible all the non-Big 3 players have shot lately. At the end of the game I saw both TD and Fields airball WIDE open 3’s that couldve cut the lead in half.

    Considering in 3 of the first 4 games since the trade the Knicks have played Top 5 defense and tonight play another really good defense in the Hornets the offense has been pretty damn good. Its going to look different but still be just as effective if not more so than before the trade. Really stop being so obsessed with just looking at Melo’s FG% and just look at is the offense still being effective?? The answer has been a Yes so far (I believe they have averaged almost the same pts/100 possessions as they did before the trade) and as I have mentioned it came against 3 very good defenses and the offense hasnt even looked that good yet it still has been effective.

    Defense and rebounding will still be the key to whether the Knicks win or lose, not Melo’s FG%.

  114. BigBlueAL

    BTW dont get me wrong, obviously Melo cant be going 8 for 24 all the time. But everyone here just loves harping on Melo’s inefficiency like he is the only one struggling right now on this team.

    Also the best part is when people try to make it seem like the Knicks gave up 4 of the most efficient players in history for Melo the chucker. Hello, Gallo is the only efficient player not here anymore and the Knicks have Billups now who is actually more efficient than Gallo is. Now all of a sudden Chandler is being missed because he was so efficient?? This is his career season and still this season his TS% is barely better than Melo’s this season and he is not even close to Melo for their careers. Need I remind you about Felton who in 3 games with Denver has a TS% of 40% and actually has negative win shares with them so far even though they are 2-1 in the games he has played?? The Knicks miss Mozgov a bit but its not because of his efficient offense.

    I could care less how the hell this team wins as long as they just win. If they win 130-125 great. 90-85 fine by me. Im not going to complain because this team wins with a less efficient offense than before and because they do more post-ups and isos now like 95% of the other teams in the NBA do. Especially after just 4 freaking games with the new team.

  115. Frank O.

    You cannot underestimate the impact the officiating had on the flow of the game. The Knicks are a flow team. But with something like 40+ plus ref-induced game stoppages, and the Magic’s desire to slow the game down, it took the Knicks out of their rhythm.
    It helps the Magic exploit Knicks’ two weaknesses: No true center; and weak perimeter D.
    Billups simply couldn’t keep up with jameer, but at least he was matching the scoring.

    But the Knicks will need to figure out how to handle games that get turned into this kind of grind. The middle was packed in for both Amare and Carmelo because the Knicks shooters couldn’t hit a shot.

    That too is an adjustment for them. The Knicks role players are finding it hard staying involved. Our big three scored more than 80 points last night, Carmelo took a ton of shots, and the rest of the guys were kind of forcing shots or not in the flow of the game and missing.
    Landry had a solid game with I think 10 boards, but he was useless from 3. Douglas’s play down the stretch just blew the game. He only knows how to find his own shot. After two years, it seems strange that he can do no more than that.

    I also don’t understand why if Amare seemed to be pretty effective he wasn’t getting more touches. There needs to be recognition that if Carmelo is cold, Amare will need to get a greater share of the shots.
    But this all will get worked out in time. If they can play .500 ball for the next couple weeks, and a weak schedule will help, they’ll get a lot better for the stretch run.

  116. MoogSM

    I know people want to win now, or this season, since we’ve been waiting so damn long, but…

    This trade won’t be decided now, and probably not even next season. If we get either Paul or Williams, we’re as good as Miami. And we start attracting the vets who just want to win and don’t care about pay.

    Furthermore, I’m guessing that by next season D’Antoni’s gone. I love him and his philosophy, but a team with Melo, Amare, and Billups is not SSOL. More importantly, if you have two bad/mediocre defenders, you need to have a strong defensive system. D’Antoni doesn’t bring that.

    I’m encouraged by the team’s hunger the last few games, I don’t think that goes away. And that bodes well for the future. I’d love to see a round of playoff games this season, but I’d rather see a championship in 2013.

  117. Peter87

    MoogSM: If we get either Paul or Williams, we’re as good as Miami.

    What reasons are there for believing that? In these games, Billups has been as good a PG as you can hope for, and the overall results have been very mixed.

  118. NateRobinson

    We need to fill out the rest of the roster with good rotation players that compliment our stars. Rebounding C, bench swiss army knife forward, backup PG etc. Then we can judge this team, but the fact is this is not an ideal roster and MDA will have to make the most out of it in the meantime.

    Frank O.:But the Knicks will need to figure out how to handle games that get turned into this kind of grind. The middle was packed in for both Amare and Carmelo because the Knicks shooters couldn’t hit a shot.
    .  

    Well said. They are giving the Knicks the Miami treatment. Where they force the role players to beat them from the outside. Granted Miami and Orlando are two of the best defensive teams in the league so it takes time to mesh as an offense.

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