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Sunday, November 23, 2014

2011 Game Thread: Knicks @ Lakers

For your game thoughts.

166 comments on “2011 Game Thread: Knicks @ Lakers

  1. Fleet19

    Big game tonight – looking forward to some great play. Can we handle all these big guys inside?

  2. Z

    Heading to Staples now. First live game for me in the Amar’e era… have high expectations. Beat LA. Beat LA. Beat LA.

  3. Frank

    will be interesting to see how they guard Amare. He is way too fast for Bynum so Bynum will probably play off him by a lot — lots of elbow jumpers for Amare early. If he hits those then we are in for a good game. Lakers might get 30 offensive rebounds though.

  4. Fleet19

    You don’t think they will just put Gasol on him all night to stop the 15 footers and if he drives Bynum will just be waiting for him. I think Amare might have a lot of assits tonight from passing it out from deep under for threes from the crew.

  5. cgreene

    I think if the Melo deal goes down then DW should try to be aggressive to fill out the Center situation and go over the cap to pay Wilson.

  6. Brian Cronin

    While obviously the news that the Nets are close to dealing for him is the biggest news in the Melo-drama, but I was also stunned by Amar’e saying he didn’t think that the Knicks should trade a bunch of players for another star. That’s basically saying, “We shouldn’t get Melo,” which is a big about face turn from his earlier positions.

  7. Brian Cronin

    I think if the Melo deal goes down then DW should try to be aggressive to fill out the Center situation and go over the cap to pay Wilson.

    Totally.

    Especially since (unless the MLE disappears) it would make the MLE available for use next year.

  8. ess-dog

    Brian Cronin:
    Totally.Especially since (unless the MLE disappears) it would make the MLE available for use next year.  

    I just don’t like any of the big-man names mentioned yet that seem realistic (I don’t consider Gasol or McGee realistic.)
    I would consider moving AR to the Wolves for their 1st round pick, or possibly Golden State’s pick. Curry + that pick might make a more attractive package than Curry + AR.

  9. ess-dog

    Although now that I think about it, AR as a pick, Curry and Azu would work perfectly in a trade for Nene…

  10. Z-man

    Z, you are our on-the-scene representative, do us proud! Is it too much to expect to see you in one of the seats next to Jack, with an Amar’e jersey sporting face-paint and a blue and orange fro-wig?!

  11. cgreene

    ess-dog: Although now that I think about it, AR as a pick, Curry and Azu would work perfectly in a trade for Nene…  

    Like that deal. Would you throw in Moz to get it done? I think I would.

  12. ess-dog

    cgreene:
    Like that deal.Would you throw in Moz to get it done?I think I would.  

    I don’t know, I like Moz. But his and Azu’s contracts are interchangable I believe, and that makes more sense since Denver will need some warm bodies to finish the season with. Plus they can still save $$ if they choose not to resign Moz. Then maybe we can use Azu’s big ca$h savings in a second, smaller deal.

  13. daJudge

    I find Amare’s recent statements concerning Melo really fascinating. Also, DW was very clear recently that he was signing Wilson. He went out of his way to make this point. This may have turned off Melo. Maybe Amare, like some of us, really believes that blowing up the team is not the right thing. Maybe DW has really low-balled Denver this whole time and now Amare is joining in the fun. Who knows? Who cares? If Melo goes to the Nets, I wish him the best (within limits of course). If this deal blows, it’s free agency time for Melo. What I am interested in is seeing what the Knicks need to beat the likes of the Lakers, Heat, Boston and Orlando. At worst, we’ll have some answers tonight. Go knicks.

  14. Resounding Rebounding

    ess-dog: I just don’t like any of the big-man names mentioned yet that seem realistic (I don’t consider Gasol or McGee realistic.)I would consider moving AR to the Wolves for their 1st round pick, or possibly Golden State’s pick. Curry + that pick might make a more attractive package than Curry + AR.  (Quote)

    DeAndre Jordan has played great for the Clippers ever since being inserted into the starting lineup. He’s young and I believe he is a free agent at the end of the season.

  15. TheRant

    Wow, the Knicks are pasting them. I know it’s only been three minutes, but the Champs are looking sloppy.

  16. Brian Cronin

    They’re definitely taking it to them, but I dunno about “pasting them.” It’s 10-8.

  17. rayhed

    umm, why was ron not kicked out of the game- that was ridiculous…

    also fields is incredible on the defensive end- knows exactly where to be at all times

  18. TheRant

    rayhed: umm, why was ron not kicked out of the game- that was ridiculous…

    It was merely an “insta-choke,” not a full on Sprewell choke.

  19. Robert Silverman

    been a few weeks since I’ve gone down this path but, “We’re getting hosed by the refs! HOSED, I say!!”

  20. Jimmy C

    That was an awful quarter. Looks like Ray is playing down to his matchup and the team as a whole is letting the Lakers completely dictate the pace.

  21. Frank O.

    Doubling WC???
    They’ve doubled on WC. He’s arrived.
    Now he needs to pass better out of the double

  22. Thomas B.

    Fleet19: Big game tonight – looking forward to some great play. Can we handle all these big guys inside?  

    So far no, no we cant.

  23. G

    Re: players on Melo. In a pre-game interview on the radio, Felton told Johnny Hoops something similar. He said something like: “if anything, this team maybe just needs another big and we’ll do some real damage.” He didn’t seem to be wishing for Melo either.

  24. Jimmy C

    Nice spell by the bench. Weird game so far, but I think if we start the second half pushing it Ray and Stat will have enough in the tank to force them into a faster pace.

  25. d-mar

    jon abbey: 1-9 combined from Amare/Felton, Gallo is out, somehow we’re still winning.  

    Pretty amazing, and should be a good sign for the 2nd half. I’m impressed with the Knicks D tonight, very focused.

  26. Brian Cronin

    That was such bad luck. They’ve been doubling Gasol so well, but the busted play saw him get single coverage, and he’s going to score in single coverage.

  27. Brian Cronin

    Question – why does Breen call Walker “Billy”? That’s not what he goes by, right? So what’s up with that? If that’s not his nickname, it comes off as a bit condescending.

  28. Brian Cronin

    I saw a stat today about how few Knicks have averaged more points per game than Stat’s current average. What struck me was that Ewing did it twice! That’s nuts!

  29. tastycakes

    What a weird half of ball. Amare, Ray, Kobe, and Pau all playing very subpar games. Hope our stars pick it up, that was maybe Amar’e’s worst half of the season.

  30. tastycakes

    Doug: NBA.tv has the sleepiest sounding guy doing halftime highlights.  

    This game is on NBA.tv? League Pass Broadband is giving me the herky

  31. art vandelay

    Amare I have noticed is good at going one on one by using his quickness but only seems to work on nontrue centers…against bynum they need to run more pick and roll or we have to hope his outside shot starts dropping…against a guy like bynum even if he gets by him bynum is big enough to recover and block the shot, or gasol is there to help

  32. d-mar

    Brian Cronin: Bynum is playing some of the best single coverage on Amar’e that I’ve seen all season.  

    He’s doing a decent job, but open jump shots that are usually automatic for Amare aren’t falling. So Bynum will let him keep shooting until they do.

  33. Resounding Rebounding

    Brian Cronin: Bynum is playing some of the best single coverage on Amar’e that I’ve seen all season.  (Quote)

    Yeah but right now he’s missing the shots where he does get a good look. Hopefully they start falling in the second half. Thankfully, he’s not having one of those games where he has a ton of turnovers, in fact the team as a whole only has 3 to the Lakers 9.

  34. RJ in Brooklyn

    Felton & Amare both very out of sorts in 1st half. Amare has baggage/history w/LA from his PHX days. Amare needs to relax, make Bynum move laterally. down 5 as poorly as NYK has played is a bonus. haven’t seen Felton make this many poor decisions since CLE game. LA’s very familiar with base D’Antoni sets. Mike should call a wrinkle with a back pick for Amare to get a dunk to get him rolling. when an opponent is sitting & waiting on your sets, you gotta throw some other options at them.

  35. Brian Cronin

    Boy, what the hell was ray doing with that pass?

    Had to be a brain fart, because that looked like he was passing it directly to Artest.

  36. TheXman

    some solid play by the 2 stars….landry is the best player on this team, according to wage of wins.

  37. art vandelay

    wow….by FAR the worst offensive display we have seen from this team…far worse than even the Cleveland game up until this point in my book.

  38. Brian Cronin

    I guess there’s a rule against Kobe getting a 2nd technical

    It is crazy that Kobe can be that confident that he won’t get the 2nd tech call.

    That, or it is crazy how reckless Kobe was there.

  39. d-mar

    I think Raymond must have been doing some serious par-tay-ing in LA last night, or maybe right before the game, he just looks dazed and confused.

  40. latke

    I feel like we need to put in turiaf with Amare. They are really punishing us inside. That was two terrible passes tho – felton’s then Chandler’s. Just plain lack of focus.

  41. art vandelay

    refs are quick to give stars a first tech but they seem to refrain from every whistling a second unless it is grossly egregious….amare could have been ejected at least 2 to 3 times already this season if that were not the case.

  42. Brian Cronin

    That is pretty impressive that Landry is only the third player Spike Lee ever asked a jersey for.

  43. Brian Cronin

    That’s rough for the Cavs, already having a terrible year and now they lose their best player for the rest of the season? And it keeps them from being able to trade him!!

  44. cgreene

    D’Antoni being badly out coached by Phil. Lakers have explicitly been taking away the perimeter and challenging Knicks to take it inside. MDA should be changing sets and using Chandler in the high post. A bit of Stubborn Mike tonight with the if-they-go-big-we-go-smaller philosophy.

  45. Jimmy C

    RJ in Brooklyn: sooo…D’Antoni goes smaller? Felton on Kobe should work out well.  

    Seriously. Get Moz and / or AR out there and let them get some quality minutes against quality players.

  46. TheXman

    if bynum wants his confidence back just play the knicks each time, he’s prob never dominated like this since high school it’s like too damn easy. someone please deny him the ball, double team put mozgov on him dear god.

  47. BigBlueAL

    Brian Cronin: I saw a stat today about how few Knicks have averaged more points per game than Stat’s current average. What struck me was that Ewing did it twice! That’s nuts!  

    Ewing was pretty good you know :-)

  48. jon abbey

    Brian Cronin: That is pretty impressive that Landry is only the third player Spike Lee ever asked a jersey for.  

    Dunno exactly what “asking for a jersey” means, but Spike wore a Nate Robinson jersey for years (yes, I heard the announcers say it also).

  49. BigBlueAL

    Knicks have been awful on offense tonight which sucks because I feel the Knicks have played pretty good D tonight, rebounding aside obviously.

  50. tastycakes

    I like that the Laker announcers are openly rooting for Portland to knock off Miami. Up 4 late.

  51. BigBlueAL

    Someone on the Knicks needs to punch sorry-ass Artest in the face. I like how this Knicks team gets chippy and physical. Amar’e does a good job of frustrating the other team w/o backing down. Old-school Knicks baby. lol

  52. Jimmy C

    It’s hard to put into words how much I loathe the Lakers. But it’s shots like that that make it easier.

  53. Brian Cronin

    speaking of portland, any chance of nabbing camby?

    I want him a lot, but I think it’s fair to note that giving up AR for Camby is suspiciously close to giving up Camby for Oakley.

  54. Brian Cronin

    Ewing was pretty good you know :-)

    Ha!

    Yeah, but in the era he played, to average more than 26 points a game? That’s nuts.

  55. Brian Cronin

    Dunno exactly what “asking for a jersey” means, but Spike wore a Nate Robinson jersey for years (yes, I heard the announcers say it also).

    He asked the Knicks for a jersey of Starks, Sprewell and now Fields.

  56. TheXman

    shannon brown i don’t think is that good he’s had a good shooting year, but he’s not really a good shooter, I don’t think it’ll sustain.

  57. tastycakes

    I hate Shannon Brown. LBJ with 2 clutch free throws, Andre ‘Old Man’ Miller with two misses in the closing seconds. OT in PDX. (i am geekng out with split screen tonight :))

  58. Starks

    knicks are getting help with calls but i’ve seen so many laker games where they get every call. i think they’re due.

  59. TheXman

    chandler please make a shot, ppl think he’s an all star with one good game against the spurs. he still needs to bring some consistency

  60. RJ in Brooklyn

    this game has been surprisingly chippy. it’ll be interesting to see what carryover there is when LA comes to MSG in a month.

  61. TheXman

    game is over put in AR, lamar odom having a field day, he prob can’t wait to play against the knicks each time

  62. jon abbey

    Brian Cronin:
    He asked the Knicks for a jersey of Starks, Sprewell and now Fields.  

    right, I heard it too. my point was that I think it’s either wrong or meaningless, as he’s certainly worn other jerseys over the years, Nate for starters.

    NY is going to need to play a lot better in the next two games, or this is a 1-3 trip.

  63. tastycakes

    Not yet ready to beat the champs on their home floor. Can’t say I’m surprised, though I certainly was hopeful going in.

    With POR and UTA coming up, I’m optimistic we can get at least a split.

  64. tastycakes

    On the jersey tip, maybe he was unable to buy a Fields jersey so had to get a custom one done? They don’t automatically print everyone’s number, right?

  65. d-mar

    Just one game, one loss to the defending champs in their building. Pretty ugly final, but not one of those where you say we rolled over. We were just out of sync all night, and our 2 best players shot like crap. Move on, get a split of the next 2, and go home 2-2 on the road trip. How bad would that be?

  66. BigBlueAL

    itztiz:
    That’s sad, not even worthy of garbage time?  

    With the way he looked and played in garbage time on Friday in Phoenix I dont think AR deserves to see the floor again for a long time.

  67. BigBlueAL

    TheXman: I watched highlights of AR, I mean how is he not finding time.Kid has sick skills.  

    Have you not seen any of his 100+ minutes with the Knicks this season?????

  68. Resounding Rebounding

    This team’s biggest need is a big man. I think of that out of all the bigs that there is a realistic chance of trading for, and there are not many, we should go after DeAndre Jordan. I don`t really see any other quality bigs out there that we can realistically acquire. On a side not, two things D’Antoni did tonight that he’s been doing all season that I don`t like. It’s okay to go small sometimes but sometime it’s just so glaringly obvious that you need a big in there, like tonight. D’Antoni played Turiaf only 7 minutes tonight against a giant Lakers lineup, seriously? And when your team is falling behind by double digits can you call a timeout? Sheesh

  69. Resounding Rebounding

    Another thing, Felton has had a game here and there lately where he’s played really well, like against Phoenix, but his overall play lately has been bad.

  70. jaylamerique

    BigBlueAL:
    With the way he looked and played in garbage time on Friday in Phoenix I dont think AR deserves to see the floor again for a long time.  

    This is what i’ve been saying for a long time. The guy is lazy. i question his work ethic because Coach D obviously plays people if they show some form of hardwork in practice. Shawne Williams played hard in practice and showed the coaching staff something and he started to play. AR clearly isnt doing this.

  71. jon abbey

    people keep saying that NY needs a big man, but what makes anyone think D’Antoni would even play him if we had one?

  72. BigBlueAL

    jaylamerique:
    This is what i’ve been saying for a long time. The guy is lazy. i question his work ethic because Coach D obviously plays people if they show some form of hardwork in practice. Shawne Williams played hard in practice and showed the coaching staff something and he started to play. AR clearly isnt doing this.  

    I mentioned that night here that I thought AR had horrible body language on the court. I felt that I might have been nitpicking him too much that night yet when I read Twitter every single Knicks beat writer went out of their way to mention how bad AR looked and specifically mentioned his bad body language. Even Hahn I think talked about this is why he gets no playing time because he quite frankly doesnt deserve any even in garbage time.

    Shawne Williams before he got his playing time was being talked up alot by D’Antoni and the writers as someone who deserves to start getting some playing time because of how well he has looked in practice and right on cue looked at how well he has played once he got into the rotation. Bill Walker was in the rotation, played himself out of it but has gotten back into the rotation once Gallo got hurt and has played pretty good. Practice hard and dont look like a sourpuss and when you do get some playing time show that you give a crap and play good and you will get some minutes. AR apparently doesnt realize this.

  73. BigBlueAL

    jon abbey: people keep saying that NY needs a big man, but what makes anyone think D’Antoni would even play him if we had one?  

    Knicks dont need a big man, they need a GOOD big man which is obviously a big difference. At the beginning of the season D’Antoni went big and they played horrible. Since Turiaf came back from his injury he has been very up and down with his play but the few games he looked good D’Antoni kept him on the floor for extended minutes.

    Now that it seems like D’Antoni is intent on giving Amar’e rest during games and limiting his minutes somewhat Im sure if they can acquire a legitimately good big man D’Antoni will have no problems giving him minutes.

  74. latke

    re: Deandre Jordan.

    I’d rather go after Kendrick Perkins. What we need is a big man who can be a real stopper and who has the experience to play inside a team concept. DeAndre Jordan is a strong athlete, but he’s only 22, and he’s never played on a good team. I’d prefer to add vets on the bench. We have enough young dudes. Above all though I’d prefer, if we can, to trade our expiring contracts for the a big dude so as to prevent cap space issues this offseason. I would be willing to give up a starter for Nene (possible) or Paul Millsap (unlikely).

    It’s unfortunate that Portland keeps winning. The more they are in the playoff hunt, the less likely the harder it would be to swing a deal for Camby.

  75. massive

    I think its unfair to say Mike D’Antoni wouldn’t play a center. Fact is, he’s never had a a good center on his teams. He played Shaq and people say that didn’t work out well, but he only had the 2nd half of a season to work him into the system. Mike D’Antoni pretty much lost his job because he couldn’t out-coach Greg Poppovich, which is probably near impossible to do. I think its unreasonable to think that he wouldn’t play a center like Tyson Chandler, Andrew Bynum, Joakim Noah, or Andrew Bogut because he’s never had a center that talented. Of course he would play Bargs, Mem-O, and Nene (he can hit the open 18-20 footer), but I think that if given a legitimate 7 footer, he would use him. He even started Mozgov this season because he showed signs of legitimacy.

  76. Resounding Rebounding

    latke: re: Deandre Jordan.I’d rather go after Kendrick Perkins. What we need is a big man who can be a real stopper and who has the experience to play inside a team concept. DeAndre Jordan is a strong athlete, but he’s only 22, and he’s never played on a good team. I’d prefer to add vets on the bench. We have enough young dudes. Above all though I’d prefer, if we can, to trade our expiring contracts for the a big dude so as to prevent cap space issues this offseason. I would be willing to give up a starter for Nene (possible) or Paul Millsap (unlikely).It’s unfortunate that Portland keeps winning. The more they are in the playoff hunt, the less likely the harder it would be to swing a deal for Camby.  (Quote)

    Perkins is coming off a serious injury, so I`d be wary of that. Plus Perkins just isn’t that good for the money he’s going to get. He’s a good, not great rebounder. He doesn’t have much of an offensive game. He’s a terrible free thow shooter. Now of course his strength is he’ s supposed to be a great defender. But I think he’s just a good defender, not a great one. A big’s defense is going to look a lot better playing next to Garnett. I think Jordan, while not as good a defender right now, is close in value to Perkins but alot cheaper with more upside.In terms of never playing for a good team, it’s just his 2nd year in the league, and the Clippers have played better since he’s started.Anyway, Perkins is not a REALISTIC target. Celtics aren`t trading him, and if he’s healthy they’ll resign him.

  77. latke

    Resounding Rebounding: Perkins is not a REALISTIC target

    I’d say he’s more realistic than Jordan — Jordan puts up similar per 36 numbers, possibly similar per game numbers by the end of this season, and is four years younger. All we need is a guy who can bang with anyone and set good screens without doing anything stupid. There’s no point in overpaying for that guy. D’Antoni won’t play a center real minutes unless he’s highly skilled or not really a center. If an opportunity comes along to acquire a guy like Nene, then you go for it, but in lieu of that, I’d go for a brawny vet that you can pay a reasonable price for. If the Celtics want to pay both Glen Davis and Perkins this summer, then so be it. I’d wager though that Jordan will end up getting a heftier contract.

  78. stratomatic

    Big Blue Al,

    This is NOT a defense of Anthony Randolph, but I think he has become such a lightning rod for the passions of fans and the NY media that everyone is missing the point and digging in (sort of like the passions that Chandler generated a couple of years ago on both sides here).

    People have to understand that AR is not a rookie. He’s not some kid like Rautins who is just happy to be here or even Williams who is thrilled to get another chance.

    He was a productive player and sometimes STARTER for GS until he got hurt. He was very raw, but he was one of the hotter prospects in the NBA and got plenty of minutes across two seasons before he went down. Now he’s “sometimes” garbage time player whose confidence has been decimated and who IMHO is being using horribly wrong by D’Antoni.

    Human emotion being what it is, he’s obviously frustrated and disappointed with the way things are going and probably wants out.

    You could easily argue that his attitude is hurting him even more, but a lot of that is maturity and quite understandable.

    This a kid that could easily give some team 10-11 boards, 2-2.5 blocks, and a couple of assists per 36 minutes. He could also score reasonably efficiently if D’antoni wasn’t trying to turn him into a wing shooting from the outside. He’s trying to fit a aquare peg into a round hole. If you look at AR’s shot distribution career wise and for the Knicks, he’s shooting WAY MORE long jumpers now than he did for GS. That and probably some randomness, lack of stready minutes etc.. is the reason he’s been so inefficient.

    It practically preposterous to focus on his occasional highlight turnover, when his turnovers per 36 have not been disasterous and we suffered through a month of having the least productive C in the league getting minutes over him (Mozgov). continued……

  79. stratomatic

    Is AR ready to get big minutes for a top team now?

    Clearly the answer to that is no!

    However, he is loaded with some of the specific skills that this team desperately needs (height, length, rebounding, shot blocking, athleticism etc..) His per 36 numbers for NY have been excellent aside from his explainable lack of production scoring.

    If people continue to focus on how raw he is, his depressed attitude, and what he can’t do on the court yet, they are thinking just like the people that didn’t hold Chandler in high regard a few yars ago. Instead of looking at Chandler’s athleticism, super work ethic, desire to learn, how injuries were slowing his development, and how easily correctable some of negatives were they focused on his occasional dumb shot or bad decision.

    What we need is for D’Antoni to find a way to get minutes for this kid and use him PROPERLY to return his confidence and get things moving in a up cycle instead of downward spiral.

    If D’Antoni is such a stubborn and limited coach there is no way to get him some minutes and use him correctly inside our system, then we are screwed. Not only are we not going to get those 10-11 rebounds, 2-3 block shots, 2-3 assists, better efficiency, and massive upside out of him we are going to absolutely destroy his trade value (assuming we haven’t already done that).

    At this point I think our last best chance is that someone like Turiaf or Amare takes him on and mentors him to try to get him to adjust his attitude despite his current state of disappointment and depression because IMHO D’Antoni doesn’t have the personality or qualities to turn this kid around. He’s at least 25% of the problem.

  80. latke

    Strat — I agree with you about Randolph. You make a lot of good points. Sadly, barring several injuries, it’s hard to imagine D’Antoni giving him another chance and at the same time putting him in a position where he can succeed. The odds that he is traded are very high, but on the off chance that he doesn’t, perhaps he has a nice summer league and D’Antoni opens his eyes. In the 2009 summer league, Randolph had absolutely sick numbers — 27 points (1st), 61% fgs, 8.5 rebounds, 3 blocks (2nd), 2.2 steals (4th) in 33 MPG.

    I think another reason Randolph struggled early on, beyond the way D’Antoni has used him, is because due to injury he hadn’t played basketball in 10 months. Perhaps Walsh will put pressure on D’Antoni to play AR, if only to increase his value in advance of the trade deadline.

  81. rama

    Strat –

    I think you’re seeing things through the lens of your dislike of D’Antoni. There is really no evidence that D’Antoni is encouraging AR to do or not do anything; we don’t know what happens in practice. On the flip side, we do know what AR says about himself: he’s a point forward type, should be bringing the ball up the court, etc. Go back and read all the articles about him, pro and con, from around the time of the trade. He definitely DOES NOT think of himself as a 5.

    So, has D’Antoni tried to change how he views himself? Maybe, maybe not – we can’t really know. But we CAN know that AR sees himself in precisely the role he has tried to play in limited minutes this year. And he has played that role exceedingly poorly.

    Chandler is seeing time because he has learned and improved. Shawne cracked the rotation as a 15th man because from all reports he was playing hard in practice. He found a role and got good at it. Before you decide the problem is D’Antoni – based on no direct evidence whatsoever – you might want to read AR’s self-description and decide whether he is someone capable of adopting the role you (rightly!) suggest,

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