Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Tuesday, September 23, 2014

2011 Game Thread: Knicks @ Cavaliers

For your game thoughts.

319 comments on “2011 Game Thread: Knicks @ Cavaliers

  1. ww007

    Anyone else notice that Amare never head fakes? I think he could draw so many more fouls and score more than he already does if he did head fake more.

  2. art vandelay

    YES! excellent observation ww007….I think I have mentioned that a few times on previous threads…he NEVER head fakes…I have literally never seen him do it…I have no idea why…he needs to add that to his repertoire.

  3. Nick C.

    Balkman in. One possession one rebound. Sweet. Everyone who said Melody would be most useful when Amare sits take a bow.

  4. Owen

    God, I can’t believe it. My fiance convinces me to go without TV for a week. And it’s the week Renaldo Balkman finally gets back on the court as a New York Knick.

    This hurts more than Eddy Curry….

  5. art vandelay

    Any chance STAT starts to feel usurped by Melo if this becomes a more melo-centric offense, which it seems to be becoming already….

  6. Nick C.

    Owen: God, I can’t believe it. My fiance convinces me to go without TV for a week. And it’s the week Renaldo Balkman finally gets back on the court as a New York Knick.
    This hurts more than Eddy Curry….  stepping on my foot.

    art vandelay: Any chance STAT starts to feel usurped by Melo if this becomes a more melo-centric offense, which it seems to be becoming already….  

  7. Brian Cronin

    It’s hilarious – Balkman comes in and does the same thing he does every time he gets burn. Why doesn’t he get any burn!?!?

  8. art vandelay

    I truly am starting to believe the advantage of having 2 superstars is not so much the synergies they bring (usually only if you are talking about a 1 and a 4 or 5 a la malone-stockton) but what we are witnessing tonight…..basically the team will almost never have a scoring drought…..melo goes out, STAT holds down teh fort and vice versa.

  9. Owen

    It’s probably worth remembering that they are playing one of the worst teams in modern memory…

    Alright, a little strong, but the Cava are horrible…

  10. DRed

    Brian Cronin: It’s hilarious – Balkman comes in and does the same thing he does every time he gets burn. Why doesn’t he get any burn!?!?  

    So what you’re saying is . . .RBDWRBD?

  11. Spree8nyk8

    art vandelay: I truly am starting to believe the advantage of having 2 superstars is not so much the synergies they bring (usually only if you are talking about a 1 and a 4 or 5 a la malone-stockton) but what we are witnessing tonight…..basically the team will almost never have a scoring drought…..melo goes out, STAT holds down teh fort and vice versa.  

    Yeah, I’m really loving that aspect of it. I spent the majority of the first half of the season praying to god the Knicks would survive until Amar’e got back in. Now it’s great to see him get restful minutes without having to worry about getting back in. And just think, at some point they are gonna actually learn how to play with each other. It’s gonna be sick.

  12. KnickInSeattle

    @50, true that.
    I’m not worried, however.
    I like stat contributing in other ways than scoring, and the balance of the team when either Melo or Stat sits is nice to see.

  13. art vandelay

    Could you imagine the NY media if they lost this game…Isola would be saying Isiah didn’t want Melo after all and Berman that they would be better off with Starbury!

  14. art vandelay

    let’s be real…teh ONLY reason the game is tied right now is that Douglas had to run the offense the majority of the first half…..billups cannot afford to get in foul trouble….I actually think he is the most important player as he controls the entire show….giving douglas the keys to the car is like giving the keys to teh car to nate robinson but with defense as added benefit….we get no penetration from douglas and a bunch of bad decisions…..every 5th game he has a spectacular shooting game where you wonder what the hell, this guy can play, no? but really, most of the team he hurst teh team offensively.

  15. art vandelay

    btw, that drive to the hoop by melo to end the half reminded me of hte game denver lost when they called a charge on a made basket by melo at teh buzzer about a month ago.

  16. KnickInSeattle

    I think we’re 2 pieces away from a championship.
    Of course, those 2 pieces are under contract in Orlando and New Orleans…

  17. Mulligan

    Good lord, NJ’s roster is horrible. I can’t believe they’re not worse than the cavs. I kinda like some of the cavs’ players more..

  18. Jim Cavan

    Nick C.: I’m having a hard time figuring out why this game is so close.  

    A +10 rebounding margin, 10 offensive rebounds, and our indifference to defense would seem a promising recipe.

  19. Owen

    Nick C.: I’m having a hard time figuring out why this game is so close.

    Because we have played Balkman less than six minutes.

  20. Nick C.

    Jim Cavan:
    A +10 rebounding margin, 10 offensive rebounds, and our indifference to defense would seem a promising recipe.  

    The more things change the more they stay the same I guess.

  21. latke

    yeah, if we’re gonna play one defensive player at a time — either turiaf or Balkman — Balkman is the better guy against the cavs. He’s quicker and a better rebounder. The cavs don’t have the size to punish his lack of bulk.

  22. micdan

    well our defense is mediocre that it seems that we have to double team every single player even if the player is not a threat offensively. i’m not completely sold on this team even with chris paul we would not win a championship if we dont play defense. the heat will be better than us because they defend way better than us. hope that they do simething about it because it getting sad that we cant even defend the cavs and if we lose is more sadder to lose to them two times in this year.

  23. ww007

    Knicks showing no interest in playing any defense against the worst team in the league. D’Antoni has got to get on their case for that. We can’t lose to the worst team in the league twice!!!

  24. latke

    knicks looking a lot like early season miami heat this quarter. You isolate, then I isolate. Easy shots are overrated when you can make tough ones!

    in fairness though, we kind of should expect this. It wasn’t until the heat had lost a bunch of games and the media pressure was out of control that they managed to get over their egos a bit and start to play good basketball.

  25. hoolahoop

    Welcome to the 1 on 1 Carmelo Anthony show. Starring in and directing every play – Carmelo Anthony.

  26. Jim Cavan

    At this point I seriously don’t care if we have to sign an 80 year old Bob Pettit — we need rebounding.

  27. Spree8nyk8

    JK47: Wow, the Cavs are kicking our asses.THis is kind of a downer.  

    Idk, really don’t feel like we are gonna lose this game.

  28. Frank O.

    Brian Cronin: My wife is upset that Turiaf trimmed his beard. It’s hard to call him Beardy now.  

    My wife says exactly the same thing, only she calls him Pharaoh.:)

  29. Frank O.

    Couple observations. Melo doesn’t play with his teammates.
    He’s waved off the point, both Billups and Douglas, bringing the ball up and heaving a shot without any other Knick touching the ball.
    he’s also taken a bunch of bad shots in the second half.
    It started when Amare started the second half strong. Amare was dominating and all of a sudden Melo started to dominate the ball.
    Continuity went to hell

  30. hoolahoop

    Amare looks lost on offense. Billups favors Melo. No pnr’s. Amare is not the go to guy. Poor spacing. Poor shot selection.
    Melo is a shoot first player, a shoot second player, and a shoot third player. That’s contageous.

  31. Frank O.

    Owen: Nick C.: I’m having a hard time figuring out why this game is so close.Because we have played Balkman less than six minutes.  

    Owen, this must be almost like the knicks resigning David Lee, for you. :)

  32. Frank O.

    Amazing how when the Knicks play poorly some of the worst teams in the NBA look like world beaters…

  33. CRJoe

    This has to be the worst game we’ve played so far this season, we played poorly against the Bucks, but I honestly thought the new guys we’re tired…
    Billups clearly doesn’t want to be here…
    Can we just go ahead and call the trade a total bust and start clearing up cap space for 2012???

  34. BigBlueAL

    “Billups clearly doesn’t want to be here…
    Can we just go ahead and call the trade a total bust and start clearing up cap space for 2012??”

    I mean I knew the first time they lost after the trade the overreaction would be crazy but that is something I didnt expect to read. At least not until after the 2nd loss after the trade.

  35. hoolahoop

    LaLa: Melo, I think you’re better than Lebron.
    Melo: Me too. I’m more of a scorer than he’ll ever be.
    LaLa: You know why you don’t get the attention you deserve?
    Melo: yeah, cause i’m stuck here in Denver. Nobody pays attention.
    Lala: And you know it.
    Lala: We should go to NYC. You’d be the biggest superstar in the NBA when they see how good you are.
    ….ad I ‘ll the media attention “I” deserve, too.
    Melo: how can I make that happen.
    Lala: just tell’m you don’t want to play here anymore.
    Melo: Yeah, i can say i want to win a championship. People love to hear that.

    Next thing you know, ol Melo the millionaire
    packed up his bags and said I’m outta here.
    Said New Yorks the place I gotta be
    So got in the jet and moved to ny cityyyyyyyy.

  36. madison square glory

    this is the time in the game when the elite come forward and bring a team home…Gallo where are you!

  37. Nick C.

    Billups looks like he is trying to takes matters into his own hands. As long as he keeps getting to the line I can’t complain. But if they are just gonna give it back…

  38. latke

    knicks go from relying on the two most efficient shots in the game: open threes and shots at the rim, to the two most inefficient shots: isos and 20 footers.

  39. KnickInSeattle

    The problem is defense.
    Our offense is off, yes, but no more than is to be expected when you turn over half the team.

  40. madison square glory

    Melo: I dont need the money, ill just walk over to msg over the summer
    La La: when we get divorced in 7 years im getting half of what you have
    Melo: oh.

  41. CRJoe

    Ok so I was being hyperbolic, guess I didn’t made that clear enough… But still, a double digit deficit to the worst team in the league??? Billups going 2 for 9 while being guarded by “Boobie” Gibson??? Don’t tell me those aren’t red flags that something has to be corrected right now instead of waiting for “the new guys to jell”…
    And I’m kinda pissed of a Chauncey, honestly I think he’s just working towards his buyout… It seems he doesn’t try to create offense for his team, he has two moves right now: go straight into the lane to look for contact even while he has no possibility to convert (where he has been succesful) or chucking an ill advised 3 (where he hasn’t), he looks really uncomfortable in this system…

  42. latke

    i don’t expect good defense.

    THe offense, on the other hand, should be much better than this.

    Then again, Billups understands efficient shots.

    Hopefully we steal this one against a bad team, and still learn the lessons about effort on D, along with some motivation to learn the offense quickly

  43. Spree8nyk8

    Tufumbo: atrocious rebounding. Thats at least 2 offensive boards off missed foul shots for the cavs  

    Those two free throws were not the result of poor rebounding, they were both free throws that were so poorly missed that it caused a weird ricochet both times. C’mon people, be real at least with your negativity. I mean yeah the rebounding has been terrible. But even good rebounding teams probably aren’t getting those kinds of misses, it’s a fluke.

    But by all means if you wanna be negative about a team that’s had 2 games and 1 practice since swapping out 6 players then by all means.

  44. Spree8nyk8

    latke: well i thank the knicks for making this an exciting game, even though it shouldn’t have been.  

    Yeah ur right they should be gelled by now. I mean they practiced once, why don’t they have cohesion? I just don’t understand it. I mean no team ever needs more than one practice to be in sync. It makes absolutely no sense.

  45. Tufumbo

    lack of practice time is still no excuse for the complete lack of defense and rebounding against the worst team in the league

  46. GHenman

    CRJoe: This has to be the worst game we’ve played so far this season, we played poorly against the Bucks, but I honestly thought the new guys we’re tired…Billups clearly doesn’t want to be here…Can we just go ahead and call the trade a total bust and start clearing up cap space for 2012???  (Quote)

    Wow!!!

  47. hoolahoop

    Lala: melee honey, you need to shoot more.
    Melo: That’s what I was thinking.

    Melo: You won’t take all my money, will you, honey?
    Lala: just half sweetie.

  48. latke

    okay, I’m on board with the terrible defense being the problem. Every screen the cavs sense is like a nuclear bomb to the knicks defense.

  49. Spree8nyk8

    hoolahoop: Lala: melee honey, you need to shoot more.
    Melo: That’s what I was thinking.Melo: You won’t take all my money, will you, honey?
    Lala: just half sweetie.  

    whew, wasn’t sure we were gonna get another whiny bitch comment that made no sense. Way to come through in the clutch

  50. madison square glory

    lala: so now that we got ur career off the ground, what about mine?
    melo: which u want to do baby lala
    lala: i want to be a writer…no…a music…an actress!
    melo:kobe wont allow me on the lakes and im not playing on the clips
    lala: call amare

  51. hoolahoop

    Donnie: okay guys, I’m looking for players to rebound and defend.
    Dantoni: yeah, we could use a good defender. don’t worry about the d.
    Dolan: do whatever you want, just make sure you get Melo at any cost.
    Donnie: okay, but I’m not going to gut the team to get him.
    Dolan: do whatever you want, just make sure you get Melo at any cost.
    Dantoni: good idea
    Donnie: good idea

  52. Jim Cavan

    I don’t know what’s worse, the situation we’re in, or having to listen to Austin Carr sing along to “Hit the Road, Jack” as Melo fouls out.

  53. BigBlueAL

    Considering the odds are pretty high the Knicks will lose their next 2 games I think Im going to take a sabbatical from Knickerblogger for the next week or so because I can imagine the comments that will be made here during those games.

  54. KnickInSeattle

    Jesus, can we trade CRJoe, Hoolahoop, and Madison Square Glory? I’d take Curry back if we could.

  55. Spree8nyk8

    BigBlueAL: Considering the odds are pretty high the Knicks will lose their next 2 games I think Im going to take a sabbatical from Knickerblogger for the next week or so because I can imagine the comments that will be made here during those games.  

    Used to be fun watching games here. Not so much anymore. Idk, think a bunch of people here are on the same cycle. Next week should be better.

  56. Frank O.

    Guys, seriously, they’re basically have to play street ball. They have had one practice. Good defense is a team effort. People need to understand switches, rotations…even rebounding involves team effort.
    These guys don’t know each other. They have to think about what they are doing, which makes your rotations slower, makes you slower.
    Passing judgment beyond saying this was a bad game is kind of silly, IMHO.
    Give this team 10 to 15 games before they will know what they are doing. Anything else is unreasonable to expect.

  57. micdan

    the cavs would love to play us all year, i am not sold on antony he can score but doesnt defent and doesnt even try to defend too bad. dont see how this is going to work with two guys that dont defend anything (melo-amare)

  58. CRJoe

    There are a ton of things we aren’t doing that have nothing to do with lack of practice… Closing out on open jumpers, boxing out on either side, getting a friggin’ hand on anyone’s face… It’s one thing to not be an alarmist, and it’s another to blatantly ignore little things that we are screwing up…

  59. Brian Cronin

    Yeah, obviously, it’s just one game. The Knicks have had plenty of terrible losses like this. Can’t freak out too much about them. They certainly did play like crap tonight, though.

  60. Frank O.

    micdan: the cavs would love to play us all year, i am not sold on antony he can score but doesnt defent and doesnt even try to defend too bad. dont see how this is going to work with two guys that dont defend anything (melo-amare)  

    Unreasonable…

  61. Spree8nyk8

    hoolahoop: Spree
    I elect you offical excuse maker for the Knicks.  

    Really? One practice for a team sending and recieving six players mid season isn’t a reasonable excuse? Hmmm, seems like this very same team started out 3-8 under similar circumstances. Perhaps you felt like it would automatically be different?

    I’m sorry for being more level headed than you I guess.

  62. hoolahoop

    Spree, don’t worry, your still Sargent of Arms. Remember, no true fan ever says anything bad about your NY knicks…or else.

  63. latke

    think we coulda gotten jamison for the gallinari, chandler, randolph, & pick package?

    kidding… just a little frustrated.

    This game proves that we desperately desperately need practice time. It also shows that Carmelo at the 4 is a very bad idea, as Jamison is not even a real 4 and his physicality caused Carmelo problems.

    Despite the bad defense, if our offense had simply been at the level of the Knicks pre-carmelo, we would have scored 118 points. If we shot with last game’s efficiency, we would have scored 129 points.

    A knick team with a few practices under its belt would have won this one, not that that’s particularly reassuring. This was a game that nearly every team in the league should win.

  64. Frank O.

    CRJoe: There are a ton of things we aren’t doing that have nothing to do with lack of practice… Closing out on open jumpers, boxing out on either side, getting a friggin’ hand on anyone’s face… It’s one thing to not be an alarmist, and it’s another to blatantly ignore little things that we are screwing up…  

    A lot of this does have to do with team play. Most any player in the NBA, playing one on one, will get open shots. Period.
    The Knicks are hesitant. Professional athletes are so explosive, even the “bad” ones, that the slightest hesitation and you are toast. I think it takes time.

  65. Spree8nyk8

    hoolahoop: Spree
    I elect you offical excuse maker for the Knicks.  

    And I elect you captain of the whiny bitch brigade. You and your posse have definitely made the negativity rain on this board. Congrats…

  66. hoolahoop

    KnickInSeattle: Jesus, can we trade CRJoe, Hoolahoop, and Madison Square Glory? I’d take Curry back if we could.  

    Those are the funniest guys here. I love guys who good laugh as we lose.

  67. Richmond County

    ESPN ran a NY-MIA stat about Melo and STAT’s records against Miami’s Big Three all night. I think some of the Knicks looked past this game too.

  68. Degree Absolute

    As much as I want to blame Carmelo for that loss (he was atrocious down the stretch), D’Antoni should have taken him out. If nine of Carmelo’s 39 minutes go to Balkman, we win that game.

  69. Brian Cronin

    Our bench sucked. Except for Balkman, who was an astounding +15!

    If this leads to him getting more playing time, it’s almost an acceptable loss.

  70. KnickInSeattle

    Yeah we played like crap. And lost to a bad team

    It seems like some here get joy out of our playing poorly.
    During our good stretches tonight (the second quarter) we got not a peep out of those guys. When the team is doing poorly, they get excited and start commenting.

    And, despite the crappy game, Chauncey Billups is a MAN!
    He did a hell of a lot to get us back in the game and is going to be huge down the stretch this season.

    If we pull off a first round upset, I bet it will be largely due to him keeping everyone calm, focused, and committed.

  71. art vandelay

    I actually thought STAT played pretty decent defense for teh most part…we all know his one-on-one liabilities…his help D is strong…if anyone was responsible it would be melo and not Stat

  72. marxster

    Hope that this boring type of game isn’t going to be trend or I’ll be missing the old Knicks a lot.
    Billups is a great player, but the tempo has slowed down a lot which I find less entertaining.

  73. Brian Cronin

    Yeah, STAT’s defense wasn’t awful. His rebounding was, though. Then again, most of the Knicks were terrible in that regard. Amar’e, I think, stands out a bit because he often looks like he’s not even trying for loose balls.

  74. latke

    Most glaring stat of the game: 44 free throw attempts by the Cavs. That’s nearly double their average and really the only reason the cavs were able to keep up with us. If we had simply gone under every screen and allowed the open perimeter shot, we would have been better off.

  75. Brian Cronin

    Hope that this boring type of game isn’t going to be trend or I’ll be missing the old Knicks a lot.
    Billups is a great player, but the tempo has slowed down a lot which I find less entertaining.

    That’s likely a matter of them needing to get comfortable. I bet they’ll pick up the pace as they get used to each other.

  76. art vandelay

    he had 11 boards….that was probably the most he had corraled in about 10 games, so I consider it a big step forward!

  77. endyendy

    Some people just end up posting those angry thoughts that pop into their heads when watching a bad performance, things that most people just manage to suppress.

    Let’s look at the positives, though. Balkman got some playing time, Amar’e hit double digit rebounds, and if the Cavs have our number at least we won’t have to meet them in the playoffs.

  78. Brian Cronin

    On 2 rebounds and 2 fouls. Amazing!

    I know, right? It’s amazing how much of an impact a player can have just by playing strong defense.

  79. hoolahoop

    Spree, we’re not whining. You are. That’s called transference.
    Making phoney excuses for a team is pathetic. Call it for what it is.
    Melo’s a ball hog. And just as it was said before the trade, the knicks gave up too much and did not address their weaknesses – DEFENSE AND REBOUNDING.
    And most important: I hate people who get all pouty and huffy when their team loses. Life goes on bigshot. kiss your kids and make your wife laugh. we’ll get’m next time,,,.

  80. Brian Cronin

    he had 11 boards….that was probably the most he had corraled in about 10 games, so I consider it a big step forward!

    Yeah, that’s a good point. He looked bad on the boards, but I guess my eyes were deceiving me.

  81. Degree Absolute

    art vandelay: I actually thought STAT played pretty decent defense for teh most part…we all know his one-on-one liabilities…his help D is strong…if anyone was responsible it would be melo and not Stat  

    I agree. He challenged just about every shot in his vicinity and even showed a interest in rebounding down the stretch. Melo proved George Karl right though. He can’t defend for shit.

  82. Spree8nyk8

    Meh, I just don’t think it’s a big deal honestly. I expected them to lose the first game to the bucks and win this one. 1-1 is still the outcome and it really doesn’t make much of a difference. What could have made a difference would have been making the trade a week sooner so that they would have had 5 days to practice, but that didn’t happen. So they’ll just have to make the best of it. Hopefully in a few weeks this team will be functioning on a much higher level. But rest assured, this won’t be the last bad loss. It’s the NBA and bad losses happen. Cleveland also beat the Lakers recently, Boston lost last night to Denver, shit happens. And it happens a lot easier given the situation they are currently in. It’s going to take time.

  83. art vandelay

    it is going to take time for this team to gel…the trade wasn’t meant for this season…we are going nowhere this season either way….the bench is atrocious…at best we win a first round series and that is highly dubious….just relax and let these dudes get it together….

    I remember when we got STAT my main argument in acquiring him was that he would acquire more talent…now we have melo and everyone still seems doubtful that we can attract a cp3 or someone else (I assume that must be the hangover effect from the isiah era since everyone is so unbelievably negative on these boards)….almost fearful of the next pitfall….I really think people on here lose the big picture sometimes….this team has not had a winning season in NINE seasons…..we are not going from that directly to championship….

  84. d-mar

    Ok I’m going to make a future post here in anticipation of the Knicks losing the next 2 games:

    3/2/11 The Melo trade is an unmitigated disaster. We can’t beat the worst teams or the best teams in the NBA. Stat is overrated, and this team will be lucky to get the 8 seed if they make the playoffs at all. The Nets are a better team than the Knicks. D’Antoni should be fired immediately. Fans should boycott this team and not show up for the Hornets game. The ship be sinking.

    There, now I can take the next 4 days off.

  85. Frank O.

    The problem was too many second chances and the perimeter D broke down too often. Sessions causes havoc. He’s turned into a dangerous PG.
    The last line of defense was pretty tough. The Knicks has 9 blocks.
    But they had trouble with sessions and Hickson was a man. Down the stretch the Knicks had trouble with Jameson.

    But here’s something to think about: The Knicks gave up 62 boards, 19 O boards, and still only lost by 6.
    And their foul shooting was off. 22-29.

    Give it time. They’ll improve. There are signs that they’ll be better with some time together under their belts.

    One grave error, tho: Fields was hot, and they got away from him from the 3 pt line.

  86. latke

    GHenman:
    On 2 rebounds and 2 fouls. Amazing!  

    2 boards in 7 minutes is about 10 per 36. Plus, his offensive efficiency was an imaginary number (0/0). I choose to imagine it as being very high!

  87. Jim Cavan

    latke: Most glaring stat of the game: 44 free throw attempts by the Cavs. That’s nearly double their average

    Made all the more incredible by the fact that the refs weren’t calling ANYTHING in the 1st quarter, on either side.

    If we’re going to glean anything remotely positive from this game, it’s this: going forward, don’t be surprised if Billups looks to facilitate exclusively in the early part of games going forward. What he did singlehandedly in the fourth quarter reminded me of how clutch this guys is. That’s going to be HUGE down the stretch and especially in the playoffs, on those rare nights when both State and Melo are struggling to find their offense late in games.

  88. Spree8nyk8

    hoolahoop: Spree, we’re not whining. You are. That’s called transference.
    Making phoney excuses for a team is pathetic. Call it for what it is.
    Melo’s a ball hog. And just as it was said before the trade, the knicks gave up too much and did not address their weaknesses – DEFENSE AND REBOUNDING.
    And most important: I hate people who get all pouty and huffy when their team loses. Life goes on bigshot. kiss your kids and make your wife laugh. we’ll get’m next time,,,.  

    No, making up excuses for why you are an asshole is pathetic. Just man up and say “hey, I’m a dick, so what”. Because that really is what the case is.

  89. nicos

    Pretty clear the Knicks were looking ahead to Sunday. Cavs completely outhustled them- got every loose ball. Knicks bench was awful, poor games by Douglas and especially Shawne Williams- maybe Balkman can get some of his minutes because he’s pretty useless on offense now and he’s not a good enough of a defender to make up for his lack of rebounding. Hopefully someone will put the last 5 minutes on a loop for Carmelo- they went at him about 5 straight times and scored or got fouled on every possession. I think once Billups and Amar’e get on the same page the offense will be really, really good, I’m just not sure they can play enough defense to get out of the first round- they can’t stay in front of the ball and their rotations are poor.

  90. Caleb

    All this proves is that they won’t go undefeated in the Carmelo era! 27-1, here we come!

    Missed the game – an ugly loss, it looks like.

    Balkman +15 in just 8 minutes, wow. Plus-minus usually doesn’t tell you much for one game, but that one does. What happened? Which 8 minutes did he play?

    Gotta say, I’m shocked that MDA put him in the game. When D’Antoni first arrived it seemed they couldn’t wait to ship Balkman out of town.

  91. art vandelay

    This team is going to be gutted in anticipation of Paul (or deron) so don’t get attached to anyone besides STAT and MELO….my point is just that this will be a team in transition at least until 2012 so don’t expect all that much….we can finally play for the here and now then when we know if we are going to get one of those big FAs in 2012….I mean, c’mon….toney douglas is currently the longest tenured Knicks…haha…I remember when charlie ward was on the knicks for 10+ seasons….

  92. hoolahoop

    What’s the matter baby Spree, momma didn’t breat feed you? Keep spouting your venom. It’s good for you. The knicks lost, now go kick your dog.

  93. Spree8nyk8

    totti: spree,ok, no offense takenbut i presume that you finally doubt about the trade  

    You presume wrong my friend. Sometimes you have to take a step back in order to go forward. The team as it was constructed was never going to get the job done. The nucleus in place on the team now is far better than what we had before and will compete for the title within 2 years.

  94. SeeWhyDee77

    This much I will say..
    I’ve heard detractors talk about Stat and Melo’s defense. Nevermind the offensive chemistry that they will reach..soon. All season long I’ve seen much better defense from Stat that we were used to seeing in PHX. Also ppl forget, the one season Melo focused more on defense and passed more..Denver went to the conference finals. Now, i’m not too concerned with losin to Cleveland tonite even though we should have been able to win this 1 easy. Regardless of who the players are, we still are integrating 2 new starters who are scorers themselves..and Mike D is now searching for a suitable rotation with the remade roster..AT MIDSEASON. Disappointed at the loss? Yup. Surprised? Nope. And not becuz we’ve been losing to Cleveland often lol. 2nd game of the new partnership..on the road..roles not yet clearly defined or perfected in the system yet..smell that? Yes…that is a trap game. Add us a Barron and a healthy Azu or rediscovery of Mason’s shot..I like the make up of the team. I envision Barron, Douglas and Williams carrying the second unit’s offense while Balkman and Brewer harass ppl defensively in spurts along with Douglas’ defensive ability. And the starters are a known commodity..we know what they’re gonna do. If we can curb the 3 point shooting just a tad- guys are out there takin bad 3′s just to take them. Just becuz it’s a staple of the offense, it doesn’t mean it should be the 1st option..especially with no Gallo. We may surprise some folks in the playoffs..we already match up well with Chicago so that’s problee a favorable 1st round matchup for us. Next season..the gloves are off and there is no more honeymoon period. Should be a helluva event on Sunday though..

  95. Spree8nyk8

    hoolahoop: What’s the matter baby Spree, momma didn’t breat feed you? Keep spouting your venom.It’s good for you. The knicks lost, now go kick your dog.  

    Problem is that I’m not mad about them losing. I don’t have unrealistic expectations like you.

  96. GHenman

    One grave error, tho: Fields was hot, and they got away from him from the 3 pt line.

    Fields is the new Gallinari.

  97. latke

    Caleb:
    Balkman +15 in just 8 minutes, wow. Plus-minus usually doesn’t tell you much for one game, but that one does. What happened? Which 8 minutes did he play?
    Gotta say, I’m shocked that MDA put him in the game. When D’Antoni first arrived it seemed they couldn’t wait to ship Balkman out of town.  

    He came in with the knicks down like 6 or 8 late in the first, left after a run of well executed offense (the only time we saw a lot of player movement) and decent D. We were up 6 or 8 when he left (he was +14 in the first half in about 5:30).

    He came in again with about 9 minutes left in the game, quickly committed two of our many many fouls, and was back to the bench.

  98. Spree8nyk8

    totti: spree,ok, no offense takenbut i presume that you finally doubt about the trade  

    And Totti, please lets not forget, we lost to cleveland with the old team too.

  99. Spree8nyk8

    GHenman: One grave error, tho: Fields was hot, and they got away from him from the 3 pt line.
    Fields is the new Gallinari.  

    yeah except he rebounds and plays D

  100. Degree Absolute

    Caleb: Balkman +15 in just 8 minutes, wow. Plus-minus usually doesn’t tell you much for one game, but that one does. What happened? Which 8 minutes did he play?

    He was in during our second quarter run I believe. He played some great D and I don’t remember us being killed on the boards when he was in. Eight solid minutes.

  101. Frank O.

    art vandelay: it is going to take time for this team to gel…the trade wasn’t meant for this season…we are going nowhere this season either way….the bench is atrocious…at best we win a first round series and that is highly dubious….just relax and let these dudes get it together….I remember when we got STAT my main argument in acquiring him was that he would acquire more talent…now we have melo and everyone still seems doubtful that we can attract a cp3 or someone else (I assume that must be the hangover effect from the isiah era since everyone is so unbelievably negative on these boards)….almost fearful of the next pitfall….I really think people on here lose the big picture sometimes….this team has not had a winning season in NINE seasons…..we are not going from that directly to championship….  

    Tell’em Arty! :)

  102. GHenman

    Is anyone else here old enough to have seen Clyde play? That’s who Billups really reminds me of. Just a really smart and really clutch player.

  103. hoolahoop

    Lala: melo honey, why’d you stop shooting at the end of the game.
    Melo: were you watching? i missed seven in a row, or was it eight?
    Lala: You’re the best, that’s why bigshot always gives you the ball.
    Melo: shut up bee-atch

  104. daJudge

    The game was tough to watch—granted. The defense was pretty awful. Game over, move on. Really though, tonight’s postings had some of the stupidest knee jerk comments I have I ever read on this board. Has this site morphed into the NYP? It was like watching Mean Girls with my grandchildren. But keep it coming. The feedback was so over the top that it gave me pause to relax, take a chill and recognize that I overreacted too. Sadly, I think some of you would actually prefer the Knicks to suck so you could say you were ‘right’ and revel in some kind of weird negativity.

  105. Frank O.

    Caleb: All this proves is that they won’t go undefeated in the Carmelo era! 27-1, here we come!Missed the game – an ugly loss, it looks like.
    Balkman +15 in just 8 minutes, wow. Plus-minus usually doesn’t tell you much for one game, but that one does. What happened? Which 8 minutes did he play?
    Gotta say, I’m shocked that MDA put him in the game. When D’Antoni first arrived it seemed they couldn’t wait to ship Balkman out of town.  

    He’s one of the only new guys that knows the offense

  106. Degree Absolute

    So do we cut Balkman to make room for Jeffries? I don’t see Jeffries contributing anything more than Balkman did out there tonight.

  107. Jim Cavan

    art vandelay: This team is going to be gutted in anticipation of Paul

    That’s part of what’s wrong with the NBA. I love Chris Paul. I think he’s a swell basketball player. But we’ve now gotten to a point where a Big 3 doesn’t happen “in the moment” or organically the way it did with Boston. Now, guys think it’s a formula you can replicate, and you get the Heatles and — potentially — the Knicks in 18 months. The problem is, as many on this board have mentioned, is that, in that 18 months, ANYTHING could happen. We don’t even know what the CBA is going to look like. In fact, most of us are hoping it just gets formulated at all.

    Then again, maybe Paul comes and we win 4 Chips in a row. That’d be awesome too. Either way, at the end of the day I don’t think it will be the Melo trade that we look back on as THE move that either boosted or doomed us. It’s what we do in 2012 that will really tell the tale.

    Degree Absolute: So do we cut Balkman to make room for Jeffries? I don’t see Jeffries contributing anything more than Balkman did out there tonight.

    He’s gotta replace Mason, right?

  108. GHenman

    I’ll be dissapointed if they don’t pick up Murphy or Barron. I don’t think Jeffries adds anything at all.

  109. Caleb

    Frank O.:
    Tell’em Arty! :)  

    Who knows what will happen in the next year and half, but how can you say the trade wasn’t made for this season? When you trade your 21, 22, 23 and 24 year old players on the upswing, plus draft picks, for a 26 year old at the peak of his career – you are making a trade for the here and now..

  110. Frank O.

    hoolahoop: Lala: melo honey, why’d you stop shooting at the end of the game.
    Melo: were you watching? i missed seven in a row, or was it eight?
    Lala: You’re the best, that’s why bigshot always gives you the ball.
    Melo: shut up bee-atch  

    I son has this kind of issue. He looks for good attention and sometimes he looks for bad attention…

  111. Caleb

    Frank O.:
    He’s one of the only new guys that knows the offense  

    That has to be the first time anyone has ever accused Balkman of knowing an offense.

    Joke! Joke! (sort of) Love the guy. Even if I can’t be as excited about it as during his top-grade rookie year…

  112. Caleb

    Jim Cavan:
    That’s part of what’s wrong with the NBA. I love Chris Paul. I think he’s a swell basketball player. But we’ve now gotten to a point wherea Big 3 doesn’t happen “in the moment” or organically the way it did with Boston. Now, guys think it’s a formula you can replicate, and you get the Heatles and — potentially — the Knicks in 18 months. The problem is, as many on this board have mentioned, is that, in that 18 months, ANYTHING could happen. We don’t even know what the CBA is going to look like. In fact, most of us are hoping it just gets formulated at all.
    Then again, maybe Paul comes and we win 4 Chips in a row. That’d be awesome too. Either way, at the end of the day I don’t think it will be the Melo trade that we look back on as THE move that either boosted or doomed us. It’s what we do in 2012 that will really tell the tale.He’s gotta replace Mason, right?  

    Mason would be the obvious choice, but Anthony Carter may be even worse… unless they’ve decided that Rautins isn’t an NBA player…
    But – Corey Brewer makes more than $3 million dollars, and if they’re not going to play him ahead of Balkman, I’d say he’s on thin ice. He’s not going to shoot his way into MDA’s rotation, that’s for sure.

  113. Degree Absolute

    Jim Cavan: He’s gotta replace Mason, right? 

    I would hope so. I would also hope that don’t sign JJ. To me it makes more sense to take a flier on Sean Williams. He has way more upside than JJ and he is ridiculous. This team definitely needs more S. Williams.

  114. SeeWhyDee77

    Degree Absolute: So do we cut Balkman to make room for Jeffries?I don’t see Jeffries contributing anything more than Balkman did out there tonight.  

    I hope we keep Rey and leave JJ out there. After Barron, I would prefer Murphy. Balkman gives the same as JJ..but with more energy. Balkman is also a better finisher and about the same as a shooter. Rey stays. I would also look at Sean Williams as well

  115. Caleb

    @226 I too would like to see us sign Sean Williams, or swing for the fences with someone else – we need to start replenishing the potential.

    But I doubt that’s the plan, at least not until summer… I respectfully disagree with Frank O. – the Carmelo trade means, “we’re going for it now” — the Knicks will be looking for vets they won’t be afraid to play in the playoffs.

  116. CRJoe

    daJudge: The feedback was so over the top that it gave me pause to relax, take a chill and recognize that I overreacted too. Sadly, I think some of you would actually prefer the Knicks to suck so you could say you were ‘right’ and revel in some kind of weird negativity.  

    That’s the sad part about it, I was one of the few that actually defended the “trade no matter what” point of view… When everyone pouted because we added Mozgov and 2 second rounders to the equation, I actually thought that was nothing compared to what we we’re receiving…
    And I understand that offensively the team will look better going forward…
    But think about all the mistakes we did tonight, I mean, it’s just foolish to think that 20 practice sessions will prevent Melo taking such poor decisions when guarding a 4…

  117. Caleb

    If Murphy’s year can be blamed on a personality clash with Avery Johnson, than he’s easily the best option out there. Earl Barron isn’t better than Shelden Williams. Murphy (when last seen in the NBA at least) was shooting 3s as well as Shawne Williams, and rebounding better than Stoudemire. He wasn’t guarding anyone but that will just help him fit in.

  118. art vandelay

    I really love the comments on this board….I know you are all statheads (myself included), but one thing I notice is that the majority is so stat-conscious that it continues to look at numbers at the expense of reality…it is obvious, to me, at least, that roger mason will not be getting burn….if anything, he is more likely to be bought out after his 1 for 18 for the season than to see playing time….at some point you have to face facts…the coach is not going to play him, just like he was NEVER going to give anthony randolph meaningful minutes…let’s comment on what might ACTUALLY happen and not on ridiculous scenarios….

  119. Jim Cavan

    Caleb: Anthony Carter may be even worse… unless they’ve decided that Rautins isn’t an NBA player…

    My God I forgot about Anthony Carter. That’s a tough call. You have to keep Rautins, if ONLY because he’s a rookie and certainly could hit at least an Anthony Carter ceiling. And he’s cheap. Brewer you keep just as a roll of the dice. He just got here and might every well contribute in some way. Then again….

    Degree Absolute:
    I would hope so.I would also hope that don’t sign JJ.To me it makes more sense to take a flier on Sean Williams.He has way more upside than JJ and he is ridiculous. This team definitely needs more S. Williams.  

    Maybe one of the other interested teams snags him and we can go after a D-Leaguer. I haven’t seen much of Williams since his Nets days, but he’s certainly athletic enough to at least survive in our system. ANYONE who can just grab the ball off the defensive glass and make a quick outlet pass.

  120. Degree Absolute

    Caleb: @226 I too would like to see us sign Sean Williams, or swing for the fences with someone else – we need to start replenishing the potential.

    Agreed. Joe Alexander is also playing really well in the D-League. He doesn’t really fit a need, but he is still young and an unbelievable athlete. Same for Sean Williams. His character problems are well documented (if you have any friends from BC there is a good chance that have heard a ridiculous story about him), but by all accounts he has done a lot of maturing.

    Mason Jr. and Carter are wastes of bench spots.

  121. art vandelay

    funny thing is this loss tonight is the EXACT kind of one that would have provoked a million WE NEED MELO posts about a month ago and now everyone is about to decry the deal….

  122. Frank O.

    Caleb: @226 I too would like to see us sign Sean Williams, or swing for the fences with someone else – we need to start replenishing the potential.
    But I doubt that’s the plan, at least not until summer… I respectfully disagree with Frank O. – the Carmelo trade means, “we’re going for it now” — the Knicks will be looking for vets they won’t be afraid to play in the playoffs.  

    I’m crushed, Caleb. I respect your views.
    :)
    I do think they still have the long view in mind. I think they moved now because this was the only time they would get Carmelo. It was opportunistic, and much like everything else this season, a little ahead of schedule.
    But this isn’t me saying this. This is right out of the Walsh interviews. They believed Carmelo was going to sign the extension, either with Denver or with the Nets. And it is a rare thing to get a star-level player at the beginning of his prime.
    They knew they gutted their supporting staff to get him, and Walsh talked about rebuilding the supporting staff again in the summer.
    I think they have to say they want to win now, but Walsh and D’Antoni said they aren’t at the level of the Miamis and the Bostons.

  123. Caleb

    I’m just analyzing. I’ll be surprised if JJ doesn’t come back, and I’d bet on Brewer or Carter to hit the road.

    If it were me, I’d say the 35 y/o 4th string point guard is expendable.

    Although AVD should have to write on the blackboard for compariing Roger Mason to Anthony Randolph in even the faintest way…

  124. latke

    Caleb: @226 I too would like to see us sign Sean Williams, or swing for the fences with someone else – we need to start replenishing the potential.
    But I doubt that’s the plan, at least not until summer… I respectfully disagree with Frank O. – the Carmelo trade means, “we’re going for it now” — the Knicks will be looking for vets they won’t be afraid to play in the playoffs.  

    Absolutely. It’s going to be very hard to replace Billups, and he has, at best, 2 more years after this. In all honesty, I doubt he’ll resign here after 2011/12 since he loved Denver. I’m sure Denver’d be happy to give him a small contract and let him backup/mentor for his last couple years. The odds of us being able to replace his production is slim. Without any guys who are likely to get much better (except Fields), this is essentially our team. $10-$13 million in cap space is not getting us Deron Williams or Chris Paul. Landry Fields is not going to be enough to get us one of them in a trade.

    CRJoe: When everyone pouted because we added Mozgov and 2 second rounders to the equation,

    No one was upset about Mozgov. People were upset about Gallinari. They desperately hoped that somehow when Denver demanded Mozgov, it would bring NY to its senses and take Gallo off the table.

    I’m not saying that it was the wrong move. My feeling is that it has the potential to be the right move, but is more likely to end up being the wrong one.

  125. Z-man

    We got totally manhandled on the boards tonight, and out-hustled in general. 0-2 vs. Cleveland is a colossal embarrassment.

  126. Caleb

    @237 That may have been their reasoning – although I disagreed with it – but at this point, I’d guess they say: “For better or worse, we have Melo, we’re super-thin and would like to find a few bodies who could help us right now.”

    But sure, these are low-level decisions – they’re not going to sign anyone substantial with a deal that runs into 2012. We’re just sorting through the castoff bin.

    Sean Williams really struck me as another Eddie Griffin in-making – almost no chance of being functional – but I would be happy to be proven wrong.

  127. CRJoe

    latke: No one was upset about Mozgov. People were upset about Gallinari. They desperately hoped that somehow when Denver demanded Mozgov, it would bring NY to its senses and take Gallo off the table.

    I’m not saying that it was the wrong move. My feeling is that it has the potential to be the right move, but is more likely to end up being the wrong one.

    Well that’s kinda my point, I really don’t mind losing Gallo to get Melo, I think we actually got the better part on the trade itself…
    But I’m afraid that some of the issues I chose to pretend as lesser evils (such as an obvious decline on defense and commitment), are actually bad enough to counter the benefits from the deal…

  128. Caleb

    Look at those Knicks play D!

    And that was more fast breaks in the last 10 seconds than the other Knicks have had in two games.. .

    No, I’m not really making judgements after two games. But the Nuggets are going to be a fun team to watch. And good.

  129. Richmond County

    I was about to make a comment that the Nuggets seem to have gelled a little faster than the new look Knicks but then I remembered that it is possible for Karl to put four or five guys on the floor that have actually played meaningful minutes together before. Hell, he could even through a real Knuggets lineup and have Felton, Ill Will, Gallo, Al Buckets, and Moz out there together and still be reasonably successful.

  130. latke

    Here’s the thing about Carmelo. I truly believe he has the skills to be effective within the offense. With a good point guard like Chauncey, he can IMHO be a more effective offensive weapon than anyone in the league. Yes, even better than Lebron, since he has the quick release J (and beautiful form) to punish defenses that cheat. However, if this becomes the Amare and Carmelo vs. the world team, then we’ll be in trouble. I recognize this is two games, but it was a concern that we knew was real simply from watching the Heat this season.

    Perhaps the most underrated skill on offense is the shots you don’t take. This is something that both Amare and Carmelo are really going to have practice in order to adapt and improve each other. And it’s a damn hard skill to learn when you’re so talented offensively. You have so much skill, you can always get a decent shot off; you really have to weight whether it’s a decent shot or an excellent one.

    I think we can count on some improvement from both amare and carmelo in this department simply through practice and familiarity with one another, but we’ll have to see more than just “some” improvement in order to cover up the defensive flaws that a team built around three average/below average defenders. These guys will never be excellent defenders, and that separates them from Lebron and Wade, who have proved a lot more defensively even before this season. Carmelo/Billups/Amare will have to have synergy. It can happen. It may happen. I hope it happens. But it’s far from a guarantee.

  131. Jim Cavan

    CRJoe: But I’m afraid that some of the issues I chose to pretend as lesser evils (such as an obvious decline on defense and commitment), are actually bad enough to counter the benefits from the deal…

    After two games? Look, would it shock me if it didn’t work out? No. Would it surprise me? yeah. There’s nothing “lesser” about it: defense and rebounding are certifiable EVILS for us right now. But defense especially is more a matter of desire than skill. We’ve seen players long lamented for their lack of D tap into it later in their careers. D’Antoni’s bringing it up. But he’s not exactly enforcing it.

    But you’re right: we got an undeniably gifted scorer. Not efficient in the purest sense of the word — and maybe he never will be. He’s basically a weapon that just needs to be aimed in the right direction. And that, to me, is a pretty tough benefit to counter, especially when part of that down-side — defense — is something that can be mitigated far easier than, say, 18 foot fadeaway turnaround jumpers.

  132. latke

    CRJoe:
    Well that’s kinda my point, I really don’t mind losing Gallo to get Melo, I think we actually got the better part on the trade itself…
    But I’m afraid that some of the issues I chose to pretend as lesser evils (such as an obvious decline on defense and commitment), are actually bad enough to counter the benefits from the deal…  

    We absolutely got better. Not even Gallinari’s best friend Arturo would argue that. We also absolutely lost flexibility. Not even James Dolan’s drummer and blues mentor Big Nose Slim would argue that. The only open question is whether we have enough with this team (plus a couple role players) to win a championship.

  133. Jim Cavan

    “We need everybody to learn the plays and the ball will go where it needs to go,” D’Antoni said.

    Discuss.

  134. CRJoe

    latke: Here’s the thing about Carmelo. I truly believe he has the skills to be effective within the offense. With a good point guard like Chauncey, he can IMHO be a more effective offensive weapon than anyone in the league. Yes, even better than Lebron, since he has the quick release J (and beautiful form) to punish defenses that cheat. However, if this becomes the Amare and Carmelo vs. the world team, then we’ll be in trouble. I recognize this is two games, but it was a concern that we knew was real simply from watching the Heat this season.

    Completely agree, only I think Durant is a more effective weapon (I kinda have a man-crush on Durant)…

    Jim Cavan:
    defense especially is more a matter of desire than skill.

    You really think so??? I don’t know, look at guys like Shawne and Renaldo, they really seem like they love playing here… And they give everything in those valuable minutes they been soaping (?) up for us (Shawne this season, Renaldo in the past)… But even while they really show commitment, they don’t come nowhere near a guy like Chuck Hayes (just an example) in defending… I really do feel that defense requires a lot of talent…

  135. Owen

    “Not efficient in the purest sense of the word — and maybe he never will be.”

    Not efficient in the purest sense of the word?

    Rolling that one around on my tongue. Interesting bouquet, fascinating flavor.

  136. Jim Cavan

    CRJoe: I really do feel that defense requires a lot of talent…

    You can certainly turn it into a talent. A lot of guys have, including Hayes. But I just think there’s far less of a difference between an “average” defender who really applies himself — either in general or in crunch time situations — and a Bruce Bowen, than there is between A Durant-like offensive player and, say, Anthony Carter.

    Just average defense would do at this point. I just believe almost anyone in this league should be able to play average defense, particularly against teams at the bottom in almost every statistical category (Bucks and Cavs).

    Owen: “Not efficient in the purest sense of the word — and maybe he never will be.”Not efficient in the purest sense of the word?Rolling that one around on my tongue. Interesting bouquet, fascinating flavor.  

    He’s not efficient.

  137. jon abbey

    I don’t think Brewer is going anywhere, and Balkman’s play tonight keeps him safe (probably my favorite Knick of the last 10 years, so exciting to see him back and actually contributing a bit), I would say two of Mason/Carter/Williams are expendable, and I’d like to see Joe Alexander, then we can pretend we took him in 2008 over Gallo.

    obviously a bad loss, but Hickson and Sessions both played out of their minds.

  138. BigBlueAL

    Last 2 games the Bucks and Cavs only shot 44 and 42% from the floor.

    Problem was the Bucks shot great from 3pt range and the Cavs destroyed them on the boards (Knicks actually outrebounded the Bucks). Also Bucks took 32 ft’s and the Cavs took 44 ft’s.

    Playing in Miami and Orlando next 2 games is not a good way to get healthy on defense unfortunately.

  139. BigBlueAL

    Shit, just looking at schedule next 2 weeks, ouch. 8 games in next 13 days with 5 of them coming on the road (at Mia, Orl, Atl, Mem and Dal). Even 2 of 3 home games are tough ones vs New Orleans and Utah with the other one being vs Cleveland so I guess all 3 home games are tough lol.

    Schedule lightens up considerably rest of the season though.

  140. latke

    denver playing some beautiful basketball on both ends of the floor. Beautiful ball movement, sharing the ball, helping on defense. You’d think they had been playing together for years.

  141. BigBlueAL

    Chandler and Gallo have both been great tonight. Felton has looked bad both games though.

    Denver’s offense scored less than 90 last night and only have 64 pts with 2 mins left in 3rd quarter tonight but with their size and athleticism they can definitely defend alot better now.

  142. BahamaKnick

    Chandler & Gallo looking great tonite……I agree with the trade but I loved these guys and will continue to follow their careers….go Knuggets!!

  143. BigBlueAL

    Too bad Knicks couldnt just trade Felton for Billups straight up lol.

    Gallo’s 3pt shot though still looks bad for some reason.

  144. hoolahoop

    Top 10 reason Knicks lost to Cleveland Cavs
    10. Team not gelling yet.
    9. Looking ahead to Miami
    8. Melo got jet lag.
    7. It’s not about now, it’s about 2012
    6. it’s not about now, it’s about 2013.
    5. Isiah
    4 No time to practice.
    3. Dantoni
    2. Billips doesn’t want to be here.
    1. it’s okay to lose.

    How about the knicks are just a .500 team that maybe, MAYBE, got a little better after the trade, but lost flexibility to build the right pieces. How about the knicks went for star power instead of balance of team power.

    We had a very exciting, very young team a few days ago that had tremendous upside potential. Now, we’re back to a selfish ball hogging style without nearly the flexibility to get a big man and a back up point guard.

    I’m sorry if some guys here don’t like my posts, but I’ve been a big knick fan for over forty years and this a very inept organization, starting at the top. Yeah, I’ll route for them, they’re my team, but it just got a little harder.

  145. KnicksFanInVA

    For all the people who said Chandler and Gallo couldn’t have a good game at the same time…they are killing it tonight!

  146. BigBlueAL

    Yeah, ever since he came back from the knee injury he has been amazing driving but his 3pt shot has not only been off but his misses have looked real bad many times. His 3pt% this season is under 35% and continues to plummet.

    He continues though to be great at driving and not only finishing but drawing fouls like crazy. Chandler is actually shooting 3′s better than Gallo this season by a decent margin now too.

  147. rayhed

    looks like gallo might go for a career high tonight…. maybe we should start running nostalgic in-game threads for nuggets games

  148. BahamaKnick

    rayhed: looks like gallo might go for a career high tonight…. maybe we should start running nostalgic in-game threads for nuggets games  

    I agree lol

  149. KnicksFanInVA

    BigBlueAL: Afflalo has been huge in the clutch for Denver.  

    I know, he’s been having a great year so far. I’m surprised how far he’s come.

  150. BigBlueAL

    Yeah I remember him at UCLA and that he was pretty good just dont remember how good and how efficient a scorer he was there.

  151. dsulz

    hoolahoop: We had a very exciting, very young team a few days ago that had tremendous upside potential. Now, we’re back to a selfish ball hogging style without nearly the flexibility to get a big man and a back up point guard.

    I’m sorry if some guys here don’t like my posts, but I’ve been a big knick fan for over forty years and this a very inept organization, starting at the top. Yeah, I’ll route for them, they’re my team, but it just got a little harder.

    My thoughts exactly. We had very simple holes on our previous team that we could have filled (a decent big, a real backup for Raymond) which would have made a significant difference imo (and still would!).

    As you said, they’re my team and I’ll root for them, but I’m not as patient. The guys before I knew. I identified with them, which meant that when they failed I cut them slack, the way you do with someone you know. As Carlito Brigante says, “these new guys, I don’t ‘em.” All I know is that they were brought in here to win win win and tonight they lost against the worst team in the nba.

    I know what it’s like to spend on talent for almost ten years and never think about chemistry. We had a decade of that. Melo is ten times better than anything we pulled in the Isiah era, but there’s something about the way we just blew up a good young team that seems wrong. Now I hear people talking about needing to trade Fields if we want to clear space for CP3. I don’t need my team to win a championship. I’d love it if they do, but I don’t require it. The 90s Knicks never won a championship once and I never had a problem rooting for them, no matter how often they broke my heart. I just want a team that I can root for: good enough to give me hope, and together enough so I can get to know em.

  152. KnicksFanInVA

    Would’ve been great if Gallo hit the game winner. Still pretty solid game. But Felton needs to get him the damn ball.

  153. KnicksFanInVA

    dsulz:
    My thoughts exactly.We had very simple holes on our previous team that we could have filled (a decent big, a real backup for Raymond) which would have made a significant difference imo (and still would!).As you said, they’re my team and I’ll root for them, but I’m not as patient.The guys before I knew.I identified with them, which meant that when they failed I cut them slack, the way you do with someone you know.As Carlito Brigante says, “these new guys, I don’t ‘em.”All I know is that they were brought in here to win win win and tonight they lost against the worst team in the nba.I know what it’s like to spend on talent for almost ten years and never think about chemistry.We had a decade of that.Melo is ten times better than anything we pulled in the Isiah era, but there’s something about the way we just blew up a good young team that seems wrong.Now I hear people talking about needing to trade Fields if we want to clear space for CP3.I don’t need my team to win a championship.I’d love it if they do, but I don’t require it.The 90s Knicks never won a championship once and I never had a problem rooting for them, no matter how often they broke my heart.I just want a team that I can root for: good enough to give me hope, and together enough so I can get to know em.  

    Agree 100%

  154. BigBlueAL

    Tough loss for Denver. Must say shocked they allowed Felton to run the offense down the stretch and in OT.

  155. totti

    How many times i heard of gallo being a one tricky poney……
    I say,
    both melo and stat are
    two tricky ponies 2Omil superstars

    it’s only the beginning for knicks fans to regret the trade

    gallo and chandler will shine up in denver,
    no more stars to defer to

    stars are blue collar on defense,
    like jordan, kobe, lbj, wade, durant, duncan

  156. latke

    dsulz: but there’s something about the way we just blew up a good young team that seems wrong.

    It feels bad karmically.

    Another way to think about superstars is this: The difference between an elite team and a good team is only about 4-5 more points in terms of scoring differential. That means that all a guy like ‘melo needs to do to make us 4-5 points better is score like gallinari (ie take what the defense gives, whether by moving the ball or taking an open shot/lane to the rim), and then every now and then make a play that Gallo couldn’t. Carmelo has the offensive tools to do this. But does he have the humility to make himself reliant on his teammates? That’s really what the problem is for a lot of talented guys — they want to believe that they don’t need anyone else.

  157. CapB

    Its always a good idea to analyze the NBA game by game. You can tell so much in 1/82 of the season.

    Bottom line, the previous Knicks team had training camp, preseason games, and the season to get on board with each other.

    This team has had 2 games. Everyone calm down. I know you want to be all in up in arms that Gallo scored 30 last night. he also scored 2 points the night before.

    Patience

  158. Z-man

    Agree, CapB, but I have to admit that I feel a bit empty inside. I really am hurting over this trade, and I still strongly feel that it was Dolan that made the deal, not Walsh or D’Antoni.

    i must also admit that when we were 3-8 and Amar’e was stinkin’ up the joint, I didn’t feel all that good either. I guess we have to be patient, but for some reason I just find this team is not as super-fun to root for as the one we had last week.

    Maybe if Azu returns and provides a spark, or if we get a decent big to keep us from getting killed on the boards, I can recover emotionally from this trade. To get punished on the boards like we did by an inferior team is gutwrenching.

  159. bobneptune

    CapB: Its always a good idea to analyze the NBA game by game.You can tell so much in 1/82 of the season.Bottom line, the previous Knicks team had training camp, preseason games, and the season to get on board with each other.This team has had 2 games.Everyone calm down.I know you want to be all in up in arms that Gallo scored 30 last night. he also scored 2 points the night before.Patience  

    fair point about analyzing game 2 game but a few things were pretty clear last night:

    1…gallo is enormously efficient on the offensive end.

    2…he has a diverse game when the offense doesn’t have him conceptually posted 23 feet away from the basket 90% of the time.

    3…he actually likes attacking the rim when given the opportunity. watching him go coast to coast fluidly was a revelation.

  160. CapB

    Z-man: Agree, CapB, but I have to admit that I feel a bit empty inside.I really am hurting over this trade, and I still strongly feel that it was Dolan that made the deal, not Walsh or D’Antoni.i must also admit that when we were 3-8 and Amar’e was stinkin’ up the joint, I didn’t feel all that good either.I guess we have to be patient, but for some reason I just find this team is not as super-fun to root for as the one we had last week.Maybe if Azu returns and provides a spark, or if we get a decent big to keep us from getting killed on the boards, I can recover emotionally from this trade.To get punished on the boards like we did by an inferior team is gutwrenching.  

    The Knicks have gotten killed on the boards all year. The trade didnt affect that at all.

    Anytime a team trades a bunch of young guys (3 of whom they drafted basically), it feels gut wrenching.

    I love Gallo and wish they didnt trade him. Yes, he is extremely efficient when he is on. However he also disappears alot in games and is inconsistent.

    Give it time. If the team is winning you will feel much better. Right now they just traded away 4 guys you were looking forward to see developing and the team is 1-1 since then and played poorly.

    Winning cures alot.

  161. Peter87

    It’s official: the Isaiah Thomas era has returned. The Knicks suck, and will suck for a long time.

    This has gone down just as the statistics predicted. Melo scores a lot, inefficiently. The mediocre defense has gotten worse. No money/assets to improve in the years to come.

    We lost 3 good players and 4 likeable players for an egotistic “superstar”. Second coming of Marbury.

    I am completely disgusted. Somebody call me when they “gel”.

  162. Jim Cavan

    Peter87: We lost 3 good players and 4 likeable players for an egotistic “superstar”. Second coming of Marbury.

    Wow, really going out on a limb on that one, huh?

    If I hear one more person make the Marbury comparison, I’m going to have a stroke. What made Marbury’s tenure — if you can call it that — so maddening was that he was (a) overpaid, (b) selfish, and (c) the “leader”. You can make the case that Melo fulfills (a), and even make a stretch to (b). But, at least for the next 18 months, this is Stat’s team. And you can’t forget Billups, who I expect to assert himself in that department rather quickly. Melo isn’t the unquestioned leader of this team, the way Marbury was for his. Of course, he should be a leader, and we all hope he blossoms into one, but it’s in no way the self-prescribed burden that Marbury immediately made it.

    Look, I harbor a healthy skepticism about the trade as well. Could it turn out to be a disappointment? Absolutely. But I also know that Carmelo Anthony, even on his worst day, isn’t half the cancer Stephon Marbury was on a seemingly daily basis. Let’s try and keep things in perspective. We’ve got a big game tomorrow, which I’m sure is part of the reason we threw it into cruise control last night. They’ll be ready tomorrow night, and I for one predict a W.

  163. StevenU

    I am glad the people unhappy about the trade are getting heard on here. The simplest way to describe how bad it is is that the upgrade from 22 year old, efficient, energetic, versatile, improving, spirited Gallo, to less efficient, higher volume, iso one on one loving, defenseless Melo could not possibly justify all those other pieces and destroying our depth, worsening our already pitiful D, and damaging our cap space without even slightly addressing the glaring holes that already and still exist.
    And, yes, I know it’s only 2 games and that we lost to the Cavs before.
    If they dump Balkman to add Jeffries I am gonna lose it.

  164. d-mar

    That was a brutal loss last night to the worst team in the NBA (without their leading scorer, BTW) And the only reason it wasn’t a blowout was the Cavs missing FT’s and Billups going 1 on 5 in the 4th quarter and succeeding by being shrewd, clever, quick (Clyde-ism) The Knicks were at their worst when Amare and Melo were on the court together, which is a little disturbing. The rebounding disparity was awful, but we’ve been a crappy rebounding team all year.

    I think we will gel eventually, unfortunately, the March schedule is heavy and practice time will be scarce. After last night, I’m all in favor of grabbing Jeffries, we could have put him on Jamison or Sessions or JJ (Karl Malone) Hickson for stretches.

    And for all those pushing the panic button after a tremendous performance by Gallo last night, let’s hear from you on nights where Melo gets 35 and 10 and the Knicks win and Gallo has one of his 2-10 nights and Denver gets smacked around. It will happen.

  165. outoftowner

    Hello KB’ers, I’ve been reading this blog for a while now, have to thank you all for getting me through some years with this franchise. Unfortunately I’m a New York ex-pat, so I’ve been watching the games on league pass broadband this year. I wanted to comment on something that struck me last night while watching the game.

    It seemed like at some point in the 4th quarter, STAT went into there’s-no-way-we’re-losing-to-these-guys mode and started playing his heart out. I remember 3 offensive rebound-putbacks, which is usually a month’s worth for him, one defensive rebound in traffic, and one monster block on Hickson. The Cavs commenters even noticed it and said he looked like Superman out there. This made me wonder, could Amare always play like that, if he wanted to? If so, that says something pretty awful about the effort he gave us on those 3-rebound nights. Maybe last night was just a fluke though.

    Anyway, just wanted to see if anyone else noticed something different about Amare last night.

  166. dsulz

    Z-man: I still strongly feel that it was Dolan that made the deal, not Walsh or D’Antoni.

    i must also admit that when we were 3-8 and Amar’e was stinkin’ up the joint, I didn’t feel all that good either. I guess we have to be patient, but for some reason I just find this team is not as super-fun to root for as the one we had last week.

    I still have the same feeling. Walsh made me feel better hearing him talk about it in some of the interviews, but he doesn’t really contradict that Dolan was the one who ultimately worked out the final package–Walsh just says that Dolan went to him before giving the go-ahead. We’ll really never know.

    CapB: Give it time. If the team is winning you will feel much better. Right now they just traded away 4 guys you were looking forward to see developing and the team is 1-1 since then and played poorly.

    Winning cures alot.

    Agreed. Time will help in terms of rooting for the Knicks. But they have to play decently and, frankly, they have to be BETTER than the team we had previously. We could have won more with the team we had if we focused on getting Raymond some real help at point and legitimate banger inside who could man the 5 spot respectably for 20-25 min a night. We could STILL win more with the team we have now if we filled those simple holes. I’m not sure the things that we gained are enough to mitigate the gaping holes we had to begin with which still remain unfilled. You know you’re in trouble when you start hoping the addition of Jared Jeffries will make a significant difference. But let’s see what happens in Miami.

  167. Z-man

    “The Knicks have gotten killed on the boards all year. The trade didnt affect that at all.”

    Actually, we used to have lots of marketable young pieces and tons of cap room to get a tough interior presence. Now we don’t.

  168. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    Peter87: It’s official: the Isaiah Thomas era has returned.The Knicks suck, and will suck for a long time.This has gone down just as the statistics predicted.Melo scores a lot, inefficiently.The mediocre defense has gotten worse.No money/assets to improve in the years to come.We lost 3 good players and 4 likeable players for an egotistic “superstar”.Second coming of Marbury.I am completely disgusted.Somebody call me when they “gel”.  

    Wow. You sound like THCJ.

  169. Frank O.

    outoftowner: Hello KB’ers, I’ve been reading this blog for a while now, have to thank you all for getting me through some years with this franchise.Unfortunately I’m a New York ex-pat, so I’ve been watching the games on league pass broadband this year.I wanted to comment on something that struck me last night while watching the game.It seemed like at some point in the 4th quarter, STAT went into there’s-no-way-we’re-losing-to-these-guys mode and started playing his heart out.I remember 3 offensive rebound-putbacks, which is usually a month’s worth for him, one defensive rebound in traffic, and one monster block on Hickson.The Cavs commenters even noticed it and said he looked like Superman out there.This made me wonder, could Amare always play like that, if he wanted to? If so, that says something pretty awful about the effort he gave us on those 3-rebound nights.Maybe last night was just a fluke though.Anyway, just wanted to see if anyone else noticed something different about Amare last night.  

    I noticed it, too, and you know what happened?
    Amare started to dominate and then Melo tried to take over the game. He took several bad shots. The Knicks lost momentum and then Melo was out and Amare out of sorts.
    These guys don’t know how to play with each other yet and so they revert to form.
    Amare still needs someone to give him the ball. Melo doesn’t really. As I said last night, Melo broke several offensive sets simply by not giving the ball to the point guard and letting him run the offense. Think about it, the two guys with the ball the most both don’t yet know the offense.
    He needs to learn the offense, as does Billups. Until that happens they are not going to use Amare as he needs to be used.

  170. CapB

    Z-man: “The Knicks have gotten killed on the boards all year. The trade didnt affect that at all.”Actually, we used to have lots of marketable young pieces and tons of cap room to get a tough interior presence.Now we don’t.  

    Well I dont think thats what I said at all now was it

  171. Frank O.

    BTW, folks need to get off this Dolan thing.
    These are all experienced, grown men. Each is responsible for their own actions.
    Walsh, D’Antoni and Dolan agreed to this deal. They all said they agreed with this deal. Whether or not Isiah was whispering in Dolan’s ear or not, both Walsh and D’Antoni agreed with the decision and both think this was a needed move.

    Now you can like that or not. I’m not here to judge that. (I was troubled by the trade, but am trying to be realistic about expectations after two games.)
    But to act as if Dolan forced these two very experienced, accomplished men to do something they didn’t want to do is ridiculous. Neither Walsh nor D’Antoni need this job per se. Each would be coveted should they leave NYC. Each would find a job quickly. If they didn’t agree with this move, they would have walked. This is my firm belief.
    To think otherwise is to somehow imply that you are privy to the inner thoughts of these men, which is patently ridiculous.
    So please, hate the move. Stop trying to make it a Dolan/Isiah thing. There is no bogey man in the closet. It’s your imagination.
    And if some day, either one of these guys comes out and says Dolan made me do it, as implausible as that may seem, I will think very, very little of them.
    Each man is responsible for himself.

  172. NateRobinson

    When two 6’9″ guys get double digit offensive boards combined you my friend are in trouble. This is what I have been preaching all year long. MDA sacrifices rebounding and defense for more offense. Which makes no sense at all when you have Stat and Melo as well as Chauncey. Now we will reap the ‘benefits’ of having a horrible MDA roster.

    We need to sign Barron and a hit-man to make MDA play a rebounder for once at gunpoint. Fact is we will never be good rebounding unless we find Arvidas Sabonis out there so he can take 3s as well.

    Amare plays his heart out only to get beaten by the Cavs of all people. This is going to be a sad, and long season…

  173. bobneptune

    NateRobinson: When two 6’9? guys get double digit offensive boards combined you my friend are in trouble. This is what I have been preaching all year long. MDA sacrifices rebounding and defense for more offense. Which makes no sense at all when you have Stat and Melo as well as Chauncey. Now we will reap the ‘benefits’ of having a horrible MDA roster.We need to sign Barron and a hit-man to make MDA play a rebounder for once at gunpoint. Fact is we will never be good rebounding unless we find Arvidas Sabonis out there so he can take 3s as well.Amare plays his heart out only to get beaten by the Cavs of all people. This is going to be a sad, and long season…  

    if the knicks were going to trade chandler and felton, they should have looked for mc gee and hinrich or something like that. unless they think jerome jordan can actually play, how do they ever get an athletic 5 to complement the one way offensive, no rebounding , no defensive players they have up front.

  174. NateRobinson

    Knicks should draft this Brazilian C, hes an athletic shotblocker and an elite rebounder (word of the day). Nothing else should be asked of him with Stat and Melo on this team.

    My perfect draft would be:

    1. PG Brandon Knight/Jimmer Fredette/Josh Selby
    2. C Lucas Nogeira/Markieff Morris

  175. dsulz

    Frank O.: But to act as if Dolan forced these two very experienced, accomplished men to do something they didn’t want to do is ridiculous. Neither Walsh nor D’Antoni need this job per se. Each would be coveted should they leave NYC. Each would find a job quickly. If they didn’t agree with this move, they would have walked. This is my firm belief.
    To think otherwise is to somehow imply that you are privy to the inner thoughts of these men, which is patently ridiculous.
    So please, hate the move. Stop trying to make it a Dolan/Isiah thing. There is no bogey man in the closet. It’s your imagination.

    It’s not a question of Dolan “forcing” them. Once he gets involved in the deal, what’s Walsh going to do? Speak out publicly and disagree with the trade being proffered by their boss? Walking out would have been great, but that would have caused a LOT of waves. I don’t see many GM’s doing that. But nevertheless, you’re right, it’s Walsh’s responsibility too and as a result of this trade I simply do not trust him the same way I did before. He laid out a very clear strategy of not blowing up our team just to get a big star and then blatantly violated this strategy. And Isaiah doesn’t need to be at all involved for this deal to smell bad. It’s got Dolan’s fingerprints all over it, Walsh admitted as much in his intervies, and Dolan is jackass enough. I’ll concede that if anything great comes of this team it will take some games for that to emerge. But even so, they just lost to the worst team in the nba. Jelling aside, that seems worrying.

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