Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Tuesday, September 2, 2014

2011-2012 Game Thread: New York @ Memphis

Read Steve’s excellent game preview and get caught up on the action.
Your in-game thoughts here.

321 comments on “2011-2012 Game Thread: New York @ Memphis

  1. Thomas B. Post author

    jon abbey:
    SHUMP SHUMP

    Now that you’ve done your thing, aren’t you going to say something about how this is the worst game thread I’ve ever posted? ;-)

  2. jon abbey

    we’re not going undefeated for the rest of the year, the ideal usage of SHUMP SHUMP is a learning process. I prefer no exclamation points personally, but we’ll see.

  3. ess-dog

    Love the central time zone games. Late enough to get the kids to bed first, not so late that I feel like shit when the kids wake up.

    I feel like my hopes are dangerously high tonight.

  4. marxster

    Did you guys hear what Barkley just said? The Knicks can’t be a good team because players don’t start changing in their 7th or 8th year of their career. Meaning Melo and Stoudemire won’t suddenly turn into solid defensive players.

  5. llcoolbp

    Something as simple as the pick and roll, all these guys have been running it since they were in grade school. What happened, how did they forget?

  6. cgreene

    It’s pretty incredible to listen to Reggie Miller, Barkely and Marv Albert. Their hatred for the Knicks is palpable.

  7. johnlocke

    Easy to hate…when they’re playing horribly!

    cgreene:
    It’s pretty incredible to listen to Reggie Miller, Barkely and Marv Albert. Their hatred for the Knicks is palpable.

  8. art vandelay

    It is pretty obvious why Marv and Reggie hate NY…their vitriol comes through during the telecasts, unfortunately….as far why Barkley hates the Knicks…that still remains a mystery to me….someone should just flat out ask him.

  9. JamesHA

    I always forget that Lionel Hollins is an actual person and not just a player in “Breaks of the Game”…

  10. DRed

    art vandelay:
    It is pretty obvious why Marv and Reggie hate NY…their vitriol comes through during the telecasts, unfortunately….as far why Barkley hates the Knicks…that still remains a mystery to me….someone should just flat out ask him.

    Maybe it has to do with Oakley slapping him.

  11. llcoolbp

    Marv obviously holds a grudge for losing his msg gig. I’m sure what he expected after biting a ladies body. Ferengi toothed Reggie will always hate the Knicks. “sir” Charles is just a hater, who was the epitome of lazy and wasted potential in his career.

  12. art vandelay

    Worst thing about Amare being in foul trouble is that his already atrocious D will now become even more matador-like…at least the guy he is guarding (speights) isn’t a major offensive threat….yet.

  13. Z

    llcoolbp:
    “sir” Charles is just a hater, who was the epitome of lazy and wasted potential in his career.

    Uhmm, you’re talking about Charles Barkley, right, one of the greatest power forwards of all time, despite his height disadvantage??

    I think we all know the epitome of lazy wasted potential is our own Eddy Curry, and he ain’t gettin’ no TV gig anytime soon.

  14. ruruland

    llcoolbp: Marv obviously holds a grudge for losing his msg gig. I’m sure what he expected after biting a ladies body. Ferengi toothed Reggie will always hate the Knicks. “sir” Charles is just a hater, who was the epitome of lazy and wasted potential in his career.

    he’s a much lazier analyst… he is going to say the same thing about the Knicks …. until they win a few playoff series

  15. ruruland

    Z: Uhmm, you’re talking about Charles Barkley, right, one of the greatest power forwards of all time, despite his height disadvantage??I think we all know the epitome of lazy wasted potential is our own Eddy Curry, and he ain’t gettin’ no TV gig anytime soon.

    he was a horrible defender most of his career, however.

  16. mura2337

    nice d by shumpert. i like him as a player now, but when he actually develops a consistent jumper, i’ll love him. aside from melo and amare, he’s the only player we got who can create his own shot. td could…last year. we really need a 1.

  17. ruruland

    mura2337: nice d by shumpert. i like him as a player now, but when he actually develops a consistent jumper, i’ll love him. aside from melo and amare, he’s the only player we got who can create his own shot. td could…last year. we really need a 1.

    Trigger happy though.. wow

  18. BigBlueAL

    I will say this, anyone who rips Melo’s shot selection but has nothing but praise for Shump is the biggest hypocrite ever. lol

  19. llcoolbp

    I know shump is 1-9, but on this team, with the likes of TD, fields, foul trouble on the big 2, low IQ Bill walker, I’ll take shump shooting.

  20. JamesHA

    Z: Or just vote for Rick Santorum.

    For years, “santorum” has carried a distinct definition. Now, I see it all the time in the paper and it is quite humorous. Thanks Dan!!

  21. BigBlueAL

    Knicks need to just stay within 10 at the half and hopefully come out with more energy in 2nd half and steal this game.

  22. art vandelay

    We are really suffering from the regression of TD and Fields this season…they have completely disappeared…rendered completely useless, and it is hurting the offense big time as the defense is completely sagging on the 2 big guns.

  23. ruruland

    llcoolbp: I know shump is 1-9, but on this team, with the likes of TD, fields, foul trouble on the big 2, low IQ Bill walker, I’ll take shump shooting.

    interesting you say that

  24. jon abbey

    DRed:
    Jon Abbey’s terrible, exclamation point-less Shump Shump doomed the Knicks from the start.

    pretty sure it was the overly cocky and unrealistic game preview, but we’re all still learning.

  25. llcoolbp

    Lol, shump is frustrating. But on this lifeless squad right now, he is the only one providing energy. He will learn to cut back on the dumb shots, hopefully.

  26. latke

    Albert’s biting incident was well before he was booted from MSG. I think the reason Marv was let go was because he was openly critical of management decisions. Basically, he said what most intelligent people were thinking at the time. Can’t do that under Stalinist Dolan.

  27. JamesHA

    As mentioned before, I think its gone to Shump’s head, considering this is a national telecast. I am not complaining; at least he has a pulse.

  28. jon abbey

    llcoolbp:
    Lol, shump is frustrating. But on this lifeless squad right now, he is the only one providing energy. He will learn to cut back on the dumb shots, hopefully.

    exactly, it’s like when people gave Starks such a hard time for shooting so many times in the Finals game 7. no one else wanted to shoot!

  29. art vandelay

    Our $100 million man has 2 shots….Shumpert has 13…something is wrong with that, me thinks.

  30. art vandelay

    what latke said about is true….they canned Marv because he was criticizing the team openly…and it really was very fair criticism at the time, but Dolan wouldn’t have it.

  31. ess-dog

    Some of these guys look tired. We need Balkman, Bibby and TD to bring it in this game in order to win. Sucks for us.

  32. jon abbey

    Shump Shump has 3 steals already. if he gets 4 more tonight, he takes over the league lead from Chris Paul.

  33. Nick C.

    art vandelay:
    what latke said about is true….they canned Marv because he was criticizing the team openly…and it really was very fair criticism at the time, but Dolan wouldn’t have it.

    +1

  34. gregor.samsa

    Normally I just read this thread, but I’ve gotta say, if I was D’Antoni Shumpert wouldn’t see the floor for the rest of this game following that display of (almost surreal) ball-hoggery. I gather that everyone’s high on him but he certainly wouldn’t be the first NBAer to let stupidity overwhelm talent and aggression.

  35. mura2337

    i wanna punch reggie miller right in his stupid muck. that being said, cmon shump…there is such a thing as a bad shot. after watching him for, what, 4 years at tech i woulda never thought he’d be a gunner in the l.

  36. Spree8

    Knicks cannot afford to play catch up game today….attack now or never. Shump, stop shooting please.

  37. jon abbey

    who is supposed to be shooting? Memphis is flooding Melo and Amare, and Fields and Balkman and company can’t do shit no matter how open they are.

  38. gregor.samsa

    cgreene:
    It was so obvious that Melo was going to take a bad shot after Gay hit his shot.

    It’s crazy how many ‘attitude’ shots this team has taken this year between Shumpert and Anthony alone.

  39. ruruland

    jon abbey: who is supposed to be shooting? Memphis is flooding Melo and Amare, and Fields and Balkman and company can’t do shit no matter how open they are.

    oh….. i see.

  40. JamesHA

    Swish City for Memphis… but seriously, I think Knicks have hands up in their faces.. They just are hitting the shots (exactly like diaw and henderson did)

  41. llcoolbp

    No training camp really hurt this team. Since they have no continuity, players are human, and they just fall back to old and bad habits. I really believe, as much as I hate dantoni, he would have this offense flowing much better with a full training camp. The best they can hope for now is to hold down the fort, and pray b diddy comes back healthy.

  42. DRed

    jon abbey:
    who is supposed to be shooting? Memphis is flooding Melo and Amare, and Fields and Balkman and company can’t do shit no matter how open they are.

    Big Jorts is back out there.

  43. mura2337

    i just realized my hopes for this season are tied into baron davis coming back healthy and being a cross between cp3 and nash. well. suicide time, right? i mean…right?

  44. JamesHA

    mura2337: i just realized my hopes for this season are tied into baron davis coming back healthy and being a cross between cp3 and nash. well. suicide time, right? i mean…right?

    Hmm, considering the Knicks, I kind of figure they will develop some sort of chemistry, then Davis will come back and mess it all up as they try to integrate a PG… But, getting to the playoffs is all that matters. Then anything can happen….

  45. Thomas B. Post author

    I just put the kids to bed. I love catching up o the game via the thread posts. I have yet to check a score but I can tell:

    -The offense stinks
    -Shumpert is shooting a lot
    -Melo is bad
    -Balkman is worse (the very fact that he got off the bench is a bad sign)
    -We are behind by at least 12 points.

    Am I right about any of that?

  46. BigBlueAL

    ess-dog:
    See?That Melo pull up 5 seconds into the shot clock KILLS US.

    Shump’s 10 pullup jumpers this half killed them 100X more.

  47. Nick C.

    We can hope Rudy Gay comes to earth. He’s 8-9. Of course that someone smacks some shot selection sense into Shump.

  48. jon abbey

    Thomas B.:
    I just put the kids to bed.I love catching up o the game via the thread posts.I have yet to check a score but I can tell:

    -The offense stinks
    -Shumpert is shooting a lot
    -Melo is bad
    -Balkman is worse (the very fact that he got off the bench is a bad sign)
    -We are behind by at least 12 points.

    Am I right about any of that?

    only 11, but it seems like 50. Amare has been in foul trouble also.

  49. mura2337

    JamesHA: Hmm, considering the Knicks, I kind of figure they will develop some sort of chemistry, then Davis will come back and mess it all up as they try to integrate a PG… But, getting to the playoffs is all that matters. Then anything can happen….

    i forgot to mention im taking douglas and fields with me off the building. balkman too. clear up some cap to make a push at nash next year. 40 is the new 30.

  50. ess-dog

    BigBlueAL: Shump’s 10 pullup jumpers this half killed them 100X more.

    I agree, especially that wicked smart 1-on-5 pull up long two he took. But at the end of the half Melo should know better than to do something like that. We coulda been down 7 instead of 11…

  51. DRed

    jon abbey: only 11, but it seems like 50. Amare has been in foul trouble also.

    To be fair to Amare, he wasn’t very good before he got in foul trouble either. Ugly half there, gentlemen. Chandler has been a beast on the glass and Melo is doing pretty well. And that’s about it for the positives.

  52. d-mar

    Cue the “Melo is proving why he’s just a one-dimensional chucker, Rudy Gay is lighting him up, he sucks on defense” and…..go.

  53. jon abbey

    DRed: To be fair to Amare, he wasn’t very good before he got in foul trouble either. Ugly half there, gentlemen.Chandler has been a beast on the glass and Melo is doing pretty well.And that’s about it for the positives.

    Shump played some nice D.

  54. ess-dog

    d-mar:
    Cue the “Melo is proving why he’s just a one-dimensional chucker, Rudy Gay is lighting him up, he sucks on defense” and…..go.

    Well, I do think they should put Balkman on Gay, but I’m more or less ok with Melo’s shot selection besides that last one.

  55. nicos

    Amazing they’re only down 11- I’d rather just see Melo iso’s every time down the floor than whatever it is they’re doing. Shumpert’s forced about 5-6 turnovers but what the heck is he doing on offense???? It’d help a little bit if Fields would at least look at the basket every once in a while.

  56. gregor.samsa

    Mr. Barkley speaking the truth. Shumpert should be buried so deep on that bench right now he shouldn’t even be able to see the game. It’s terrifying how stupid this kid is.

  57. BigBlueAL

    Alright, down 11 at half after playing as bad as you can. Hopefully they get their 2nd wind after the break and make a run in 2nd half.

  58. art vandelay

    Whatever happened to that old argument on this board (which I never bought) that we need to stick with the kids, watch them grow, evolve….more fun to watch a team with homegrown talent, etc….all of a sudden everyone wants to ship out FIELDS and TD…haha, I was never a fan of that whole notion…if players don’t develop, I would rather have a team of 12 free agents we acquired who win than to root for guys who can’t get it done like Fields and TD are not currently.

  59. JamesHA

    mura2337: i forgot to mention im taking douglas and fields with me off the building. balkman too. clear up some cap to make a push at nash next year. 40 is the new 30.

    I’ve been hoping for Nash to suddenly become a jerk and demand a unfair trade only to NY for a while! At least YOU have a plan!! Props!!

  60. Jahredmen

    Barkley’s venom for New York is ridiculous, maybe he should host Saturday Night Live next when they start shooting it in Phoenix!

  61. jon abbey

    Shump Shump is a shooting guard, not a point guard, as he’s showing us tonight (yes, I know he’s shooting awfully). we just need to stay healthy and win enough games to be in the hunt when Baron comes back. Baron is going to make all of you doubters believers…

  62. Thomas B. Post author

    Thomas B.:
    I for one am hoping that SHump hits maybe 2 out of the 5-7 3 point attempts he’ll take tonight.0-6 is not good.

    0-3 in the first half for Shump. How do you guys feel about starting Jorts at the point?

  63. art vandelay

    Fields and TD actually look scared to fail…they are not prepared to make a move or score the ball when they receive it….are they intimidated by STAT, Melo and Chandler….I don’t get it? Overwhelmed by pressure of playing in NY? They just continue of have that deer in headlights look….

    even fratello mentioned at one point TD looked like he didn’t want to shoot the ball

  64. mura2337

    jon abbey:
    also, this is what happens when you play just 8 guys on the first night of a back to back.

    to be fair to dantonis rotation….i got nothin

  65. jon abbey

    I’m a little worried that all of this flak from legends like Reggie Miller and Barkley (at least some of which is ignorant and undeserved IMO) will get into Shump’s head a bit going forward.

  66. d-mar

    Our overall defense that half wasn’t actually that bad, we’re down 11 because of turnovers leading to easy baskets and awful shooting. In the half court, Memphis is having to work pretty hard to score.

  67. JamesHA

    art vandelay: Whatever happened to that old argument on this board (which I never bought) that we need to stick with the kids, watch them grow, evolve….more fun to watch a team with homegrown talent, etc….all of a sudden everyone wants to ship out FIELDS and TD…haha, I was never a fan of that whole notion…if players don’t develop, I would rather have a team of 12 free agents we acquired who win than to root for guys who can’t get it done like Fields and TD are not currently.

    The Melo trade changed everything… Gallo, WChandler… (oh and I count Felton because he was coming into his own in NY and still young). I like Melo, but it changed the framework of what ‘homegrown talent’ existed. Well, I have no explaination for Fields…

  68. jon abbey

    mura2337: to be fair to dantonis rotation….i got nothin

    the point is that you work Balkman and Novak in last night when everyone else is playing well. one of the reasons Balkman looks bad is he doesn’t get consistent minutes, it makes it even harder to get into a rhythm.

  69. DRed

    Balkman’s offensive game, such as it is, depends on him getting to the rim and getting good feeds from his teammates. He’s obviously not going to get a rhythm getting up off the bench for a 6 minutes every 3 games. Maybe it’s pointless since we don’t have anyone who can pass the ball anyhow.

  70. llcoolbp

    Point guards with a real feel for passing, passing savants I call them, don’t grow on trees. Only a few of those is the league. Nash, Kidd, cp3, rondo, Williams, and now Rubio. B diddy when healthy is just a shade below that top group. He’s that good. That doesn’t take away from his sometimes poor shot selection and lazy play. But when passing the rock, there are only 4-5 guys better at it then him. Let’s pray he returns and stays healthy. If so, this knicks team can be special.

  71. art vandelay

    Bear in mind when we have seen Balkman playing “well” it has been in limited action during garbage time against scrubs, including a few preseason games…hard to really gauge how much he could contribute in real game action…what I have seen from him in the few minutes he has been given during legitimate contests has not impressed.

  72. Jahredmen

    jon abbey: the point is that you work Balkman and Novak in last night when everyone else is playing well. one of the reasons Balkman looks bad is he doesn’t get consistent minutes, it makes it even harder to get into a rhythm.

    I agree wholeheartedly. I can’t imagine these guys feel part of the team most of the time, a couple minutes on the floor when another team is rolling isn’t going to change that.

  73. mura2337

    jon abbey:
    Shump Shump is a shooting guard, not a point guard, as he’s showing us tonight (yes, I know he’s shooting awfully). we just need to stay healthy and win enough games to be in the hunt when Baron comes back. Baron is going to make all of you doubters believers…

    real talk. even though iman played the 1 at tech, he was more of an athlete than a distributor. im really not asking much out of bd. 15 and 7 should be good enough. hope you’re right. he’s slated to return at the end of the month, should be up to speed after the as break….

  74. jon abbey

    llcoolbp:
    Point guards with a real feel for passing, passing savants I call them, don’t grow on trees. Only a few of those is the league. Nash, Kidd, cp3, rondo, Williams, and now Rubio. B diddy when healthy is just a shade below that top group. He’s that good. That doesn’t take away from his sometimes poor shot selection and lazy play. But when passing the rock, there are only 4-5 guys better at it then him. Let’s pray he returns and stays healthy. If so, this knicks team can be special.

    I wouldn’t go so far as special, but that would make them a couple of solid bench players away from being just below the top few teams in the league. those players might not come until next summer, unfortunately.

  75. Thomas B. Post author

    Kenny Smith’s analysis of Shumpert was spot on. That 5 on 1 freeze frame was funny. But I have to wonder, where the hell were the other Knicks? How did 5 Grizzlies beat 4 Knicks into the frontcourt? I missed the first half, so how did that happen?

  76. ruruland

    ess-dog: Well, I do think they should put Balkman on Gay, but I’m more or less ok with Melo’s shot selection besides that last one.

    Most of Gay’s makes have come when melo switched off of him. Gay is just having one of those nights though

  77. jon abbey

    Thomas B.:
    Kenny Smith’s analysis of Shumpert was spot on.That 5 on 1 freeze frame was funny.But I have to wonder, where the hell were the other Knicks? How did 5 Grizzlies beat 4 Knicks into the frontcourt?I missed the first half, so how did that happen?

    because the rest of the team has absolutely no energy, except for Melo who is being Melo as usual (in a good way). this is why Shump is taking too much flak for all that shooting.

  78. JamesHA

    Thomas B.: Kenny Smith’s analysis of Shumpert was spot on. That 5 on 1 freeze frame was funny. But I have to wonder, where the hell were the other Knicks? How did 5 Grizzlies beat 4 Knicks into the frontcourt? I missed the first half, so how did that happen?

    He got an outlet pass from Bibby I believe and hoisted it up…

  79. Frank O.

    Painful game so far.
    So, I hear the preview really sucked…lol
    But nothing is worse than listening to two of the biggest knicks haters out there: Charles and Reggie.

  80. latke

    Grizzlies have been this sort of team for a while. THey became less so this team after they centered their offense around Randolph and with Gay out, but they are a risk-taking team. They overplay everything. That kind of style will punish you if you can’t pass, which the knicks are incompetent at, but it’s a style you can punish for easy points if you’re cautious and smart.

  81. jon abbey

    latke:
    Grizzlies have been this sort of team for a while. THey became less so this team after they centered their offense around Randolph and with Gay out, but they are a risk-taking team. They overplay everything. That kind of style will punish you if you can’t pass, which the knicks are incompetent at, but it’s a style you can punish for easy points if you’re cautious and smart.

    exactly, but you can’t if you don’t have a PG, which we don’t.

  82. daJudge

    Like we talk about sometimes, Shump’s hoop IQ gets overwhelmed by his spirit. He doesn’t look like a 1 to me, so again, square peg, round hole. Over and over gain with this squad. He is trying so darn hard though. But putting the youngster, with a big upside, into this role is not such a good idea. Can’t they just run a really, really simple offense, since they are w/o a true 1? I also do not know what the game plan was tonight…or many nights A lot of times a hate the football Giant’s game plan, which I criticize, but one exists. IMO, they are underachieving and failing to maximize their assets. Part player issue, but definitely part coach issue.

  83. jon abbey

    Frank O.:
    Someone please tell SHUMP to stop shooting

    again, I ask, who should be shooting? Melo is in the locker room and Amare looks terrible.

  84. Jahredmen

    Griz still can’t pull away, though, we need Bill Walker or Bibby or Jorts to get hot from 3, can’t believe the deficit is only 10.

  85. Frank O.

    jon abbey: again, I ask, who should be shooting? Melo is in the locker room and Amare looks terrible.

    But Amare at least has a history of turnings it around. SHUMP, much as I love the guy, has no real history to justify this many shots. Amare is one of your best scorers, cold or not, you go to him until he gets hot.
    This is just silly. SHUMP is acting out the very knock on him coming out of college

  86. jon abbey

    Shumpert really is having a nightmare of a game, and he’s still way better than the big blob of nothing that is Landry Fields.

  87. mura2337

    why didnt we sign rootin tootin pistol packin gilbert arenas at the minimum for some punch off the bench? us being weak in the backcourt wasnt a surprise. say what you will, but i take gilbert over landry and td any day of the week. i take a gilbert playing with something to prove and a good team over fields and td any day of the week and twice on sundays

  88. Thomas B. Post author

    I think we need to acknowledge the Knickerblogger T-shirt curse.

    “In Donnie we trust” comes out, next year he retires.
    “Mozgov Obey” comes out, he gets traded.
    “Jeffrightened” comes out, JJ goes down with a leg injury.
    “Shump-Shump” goes live and he can’t hit a shot.

    Hey Mike, can you make a “THCJ” T-shirt next?

  89. jon abbey

    Frank O.: But Amare at least has a history of turnings it around. SHUMP, much as I love the guy, has no real history to justify this many shots. Amare is one of your best scorers, cold or not, you go to him until he gets hot.

    2012 Amare has no lift in his legs for whatever reason (I think he’s musclebound, my friend thinks it’s his knees again) and he can’t do much against Gasol who’s much bigger than him.

    Toney Douglas waking up would make this game a success IMO, even if they lose by 20. sadly I’m not holding my breath on that.

  90. Frank O.

    Their sets are all screwy. Amare and chandler running into each other on the block.
    At least Amare can get to the line.

    Melo out…

  91. Frank O.

    TD is a nightmare out there. Ball handling, shooting, defense. And stat seems to think he doesn’t need to adjust to Gasol

  92. jon abbey

    jon abbey: 2012 Amare has no lift in his legs for whatever reason (I think he’s musclebound, my friend thinks it’s his knees again) and he can’t do much against Gasol who’s much bigger than him.

    like I said, abusive.

  93. JamesHA

    Thomas B.: I think we need to acknowledge the Knickerblogger T-shirt curse.Hey Mike, can you make a “THCJ” T-shirt next?

    Can someone enlighten me, what does THJC mean?
    Oh, and with Melo out, this game is over…

  94. ww007

    TD missing a wide open Chandler under the basket. Also can we fake some passes and then cut towards the basket for easy layups?

  95. latke

    WHy do they continue to ISO stoudemire when he is getting destroyed every iso play? Pick and roll?!

  96. d-mar

    That turnover by Fields may have been one of the dumbest I’ve ever seen. Dribble up the court, no one guarding him and he tries to shovel the ball to TD. Just ugly.

  97. BigBlueAL

    Melo is the only player on this team who can dribble and pass. It is unbelievable that these “guards” cant seem to make basic passes or dribble by anyone.

  98. ruruland

    Gamecockerbocker: Damn guys our offense looks so much better without Melo. Lmao.

    It’s Melo’s fault that they aren’t playing with any confidence.. because really it’s just about confidence with this group

  99. Jahredmen

    Lethargy is one thing, but isn’t it a supposed trait of a coach to motivate and inspire his team when the spirit is not there? Time and again these guys lose spirit so easily, was D’antoni just being carried by Nash as far as that aspect goes while in Phoenix? Relatedly, would Phil Jackson be able to stomach Dolan?

  100. johnlocke

    No one can pass

    latke:
    WHy do they continue to ISO stoudemire when he is getting destroyed every iso play? Pick and roll?!

  101. Frank O.

    Embarassing. The turnovers are comical.
    Jon mentioned the Washington Generals earlier. Little did we know it would be the Knicks in the role of foil

  102. latke

    Thomas B.:
    I think we need to acknowledge the Knickerblogger T-shirt curse.

    “In Donnie we trust” comes out, next year he retires.
    “Mozgov Obey” comes out, he gets traded.
    “Jeffrightened” comes out, JJ goes down with a leg injury.
    “Shump-Shump” goes live and he can’t hit a shot.

    Hey Mike, can you make a “THCJ” T-shirt next?

    Maybe we make a Fields shirt for the reverse curse?

  103. ruruland

    latke: WHy do they continue to ISO stoudemire when he is getting destroyed every iso play? Pick and roll?!

    The Knicks have one ballhandler on their roster capable of running a pick and roll

  104. ww007

    This Memphis team is way over-aggressive in the passing lane. Seems to me a few simple pass fakes should send them flying like jack-asses…

  105. jamesportis

    Uhhh, can they burn the tape before the game is even over? I don’t ever want to see this game again. We’re just awful, and we are playing so awfully that it is actually draining energy. We can’t handle ball pressure and Shump looks unsure out there. I’ll die waiting for some consistency!

  106. ruruland

    Jahredmen: Lethargy is one thing, but isn’t it a supposed trait of a coach to motivate and inspire his team when the spirit is not there? Time and again these guys lose spirit so easily, was D’antoni just being carried by Nash as far as that aspect goes while in Phoenix? Relatedly, would Phil Jackson be able to stomach Dolan?

    This has nothing to do with “spirit.”

  107. Thomas B. Post author

    JamesHA: Can someone enlighten me, what does THJC mean?
    Oh, and with Melo out, this game is over…

    THCJ is short for The Honorable Cock Jowls. He is a poster infamous for his scathing critique of the Knicks. Of course, he’d be right to do so this evening.

  108. JamesHA

    Hey, at least Z-BO isn’t “posting and toasting” us from the inside and out!! *Really crappy brightside*

  109. Nick C.

    We’ll get to see how the offense looks without “ball stopper” Melo. I must say it’s ugly to the point of being embarrassing so far.

  110. JamesHA

    Thomas B.: THCJ is short for The Honorable Cock Jowls. He is a poster infamous for his scathing critique of the Knicks. Of course, he’d be right to do so this evening.

    Thanks, I was trying to apply THCJ to a current Knicks player to no avail…!!

  111. cgreene

    I’m sorry but the Tony Douglas / Landry Fields combo is just destroying this team. That and Amare’s strange inconsistency.

  112. jon abbey

    as bad as Shump has been on offense, he’s caused quite a few turnovers on the other end at least.

  113. Jahredmen

    ruruland: This has nothing to do with “spirit.”

    It often does in other games and I can’t help but see this as a gross exaggeration of such nights. No focus on offense, no confidence in decision making, no seemingly actual plays or consistency in rotation, how much spirit can you have when you’re playing pick-up games against teams who are actually being coached?

  114. jon abbey

    cgreene:
    I’m sorry but the Toney Douglas / Landry Fields combo is just destroying this team.That and Amare’s strange inconsistency.

    yep, dead on.

  115. Thomas B. Post author

    jon abbey:
    this reminds me a little of that Celtics TNT game that we lost by 40 points.

    Except for the fact that the Celtics awere expected to dominate. But yeah, just as bad.

  116. art vandelay

    I was about to type the same thing about this game being reminiscent of the “Boston Massacre” in 07 when Nate made a halfcourt shot at teh final horn to save the knicks from breaking a scoring record….I think they finished with 58 points or something that night…

  117. tastycakes

    Way to make an impression on national TV, guys.
    What a dismal performance.
    Even when they win, they win ugly.
    75-52 at the end of the 3rd; can the Knicks even break 75 tonight themselves?

  118. Frank O.

    jon abbey:
    as bad as Shump has been on offense, he’s caused quite a few turnovers on the other end at least.

    Jon and SHUMPY sittin’ in the tree…
    Lol

    I think the Knicks’ legs are dead. I have seen at least several times where the Grizz have at least four player dashing down the court and four Knicks dragging behind.

  119. tenebrous

    art vandelay:
    I was about to type the same thing about this game being reminiscent of the “Boston Massacre” in 07 when Nate made a halfcourt shot at teh final horn to save the knicks from breaking a scoring record….I think they finished with 58 points or something that night…

    Reminds me more of Dallas’s whipping of us last year. But hey who can argue with 58 points.

  120. mura2337

    what does our future look like? melo and amare are the same guy, they’re both jump shooters. shumpert, if he develops, could be nice. chandler is solid. but what else? we have no picks in this years ( my sweet God, i hate reggie miller so much ) draft. we’re not in the greatest cap situation. so what comes next? we are not a championship team unless baron davis plays at an all star level and he’s like, 33. so, what comes next? dantonis never been a ny coach. too soft. td and fields are miserable. i believe in hope, i live in denver now and that bastard tebows happy energy is pervasive, but im not seeing the light at the end of the tunnel.

  121. JamesHA

    cgreene: TD gives up a wide open 3 to shoot a contested 15 footer. He’s mentally finished.

    If it weren’t for the lack of depth at guard, TD would be out of Dantoni’s world- into THE NATE ZONE!!

  122. Thomas B. Post author

    tenebrous:
    I guess it’s good for the Knicks to come bak down to earth.

    Back from where. The offense was horrid last night too. It just looked okay next to the even worse Sixers.

  123. ww007

    As a side note, anyone else find the PA announcer for the Griz to be like the most annoying announcer ever? The way he screams out the home team players’ names when they score is like a drunk psychopath

  124. jon abbey

    Frank O.: Jon and SHUMPY sittin’ in the tree…
    Lol

    I think the Knicks’ legs are dead. I have seen at least several times where the Grizz have at least four player dashing down the court and four Knicks dragging behind.

    just saying, by far his worst game of the year, and he’s still leagues better than the corpses of Fields and Douglas.

  125. latke

    The commentators are complaining about threes, but I feel like the problem is when you miss open threes, guys are less likely to cover you on the perimeter. Instead, they clog the middle, and as a result you have to take more threes. The knicks just can’t hit threes. I mean it’s a joke how bad the supposed perimeter players have been on this team from distance.

    Fields: 19%
    Shumpert: 26%
    Douglas: 27%
    Walker: 29%
    Harrellson: 31%

    Bibby is the only role player who’s shot well from distance, and he’s so inconsistent. THe only big minute players who have made threes are Anthony and Stoudemire. THese are the guys you DON’T want taking threes. You want them creating offense and passing out to open shooters when the D collapses.

  126. Frank O.

    jon abbey: just saying, by far his worst game of the year, and he’s still leagues better than the corpses of Fields and Douglas.

    Agreed. Four steals

  127. ruruland

    mura2337: what does our future look like? melo and amare are the same guy, they’re both jump shooters. shumpert, if he develops, could be nice. chandler is solid. but what else? we have no picks in this years ( my sweet God, i hate reggie miller so much ) draft. we’re not in the greatest cap situation. so what comes next? we are not a championship team unless baron davis plays at an all star level and he’s like, 33. so, what comes next? dantonis never been a ny coach. too soft. td and fields are miserable. i believe in hope, i live in denver now and that bastard tebows happy energy is pervasive, but im not seeing the light at the end of the tunnel.

    Melo and Amare aren’t the same players… certainly not “just jump shooters.” wtf?
    Baron Davis will have a profound effect on Amare’s….

    I’m not sure people are really grasping how awful this team is outside of Shumpert (defensively),Chandler,Melo and Amare.

    Worst pg play in league by a HUGE margin. Worst sg play in league by a large margin.

    1-2 solid role players is going to make a huge difference… if the Knicks can find a way to sign a JR Smith caliber role player, to go along with excellent passing at pg….. you have a great team.

    But not having anything that resembles a point guard or guys who can simply make open shots has a huge domino effect over the course of a season.

    In other words, very close, but oh so far away.

    And this team can get the right role players, and who knows what happens with Nash next year……The Knicks are positioned well. Injuries aside, this is the worst they’ll be with this core… probably by a long shot.

  128. JamesHA

    latke: The knicks just can’t hit threes. I mean it’s a joke how bad the supposed perimeter players have been on this team from distance. P>

    I also thought this is why we picked up Novak, instead of a guard. I would like to be able to judge his play, but he barely plays.

  129. yoda4554

    jon abbey: just saying, by far his worst game of the year, and he’s still leagues better than the corpses of Fields and Douglas.

    If you think Shumpert has been better than Fields this game, I don’t know what to tell you. It’s really, really hard to wreck a team’s offense as badly as Shumpert has this game without actively trying. I mean, I’ll grant him that he’s a rookie and not a natural point who’s been thrown into a tough spot because his team has been horribly, top-heavily constructed by management with pieces that don’t really fit, but 5-20 with 6 TOs is worse than corpse-level.

  130. tenebrous

    This is on dantoni. Or me cause I wanted dantoni from Phoenix in the first place. But I don’t like the 8 men only rotation either. But im not a coach. So maybe im wrong. Kinda selfish either way. Anyway, players r thinking way too much.

  131. d-mar

    You think they’ll go right to the second game of the doubleheader when this one ends, or will they give Barkley enough time to gleefully trash his favorite team?

  132. ruruland

    yoda4554: If you think Shumpert has been better than Fields this game, I don’t know what to tell you. It’s really, really hard to wreck a team’s offense as badly as Shumpert has this game without actively trying. I mean, I’ll grant him that he’s a rookie and not a natural point who’s been thrown into a tough spot because his team has been horribly, top-heavily constructed by management with pieces that don’t really fit, but 5-20 with 6 TOs is worse than corpse-level.

    The team is poorly constructed NOW. But it’s well within reason that it will change simply by signing leage-average role players in the same salary slots guys are in now…..

    If you happen to get good ones, which is totally feasible, watch out.

  133. Juany8

    Hey at least Bill Walker is looking like a rotation player tonight, and he hasn’t made any of his trademark worst IQ in the league mistakes yet.

  134. BigBlueAL

    Knicks will have full mid-level next off-season. Also I assume will have the mini mid-level or whatever its called. Just adding 2 decent NBA caliber players will be huge.

  135. yoda4554

    ruruland: The team is poorly constructed NOW. But it’s well within reason that it will change simply by signing leage-average role players in the same salary slots guys are in now…..

    If you happen to get good ones, which is totally feasible, watch out.

    What salary slots? The team’s whole salary cap allotment is essentially tied up in Melo, Anthony, and Chandler. No new free agents outside mid-level exception types–and I’d add draft picks, except that we traded them all.

  136. BigBlueAL

    Frank O.:
    Not saying it’s right, but games like this get coaches canned

    They just won 4 in a row, even after tonight for as bad as they have played to start the season they will be 6-5. D’Antoni shouldnt be anywhere near close to losing his job.

  137. ruruland

    BigBlueAL: Knicks will have full mid-level next off-season. Also I assume will have the mini mid-level or whatever its called. Just adding 2 decent NBA caliber players will be huge.

    exactly….. plus Balkman’s 6.1 will be expiring next year,

  138. cgreene

    BTW, Marv said BD was expected back end of Feb. Last night Knicks were saying end of this month. I assume it’s more like 2-3 weeks not 4-6 weeks on the time table right now?

  139. ruruland

    yoda4554: What salary slots? The team’s whole salary cap allotment is essentially tied up in Melo, Anthony, and Chandler. No new free agents outside mid-level exception types–and I’d add draft picks, except that we traded them all.

    Those kind of free agents are nothing to sneeze at. Remember, a lot of teams are in NY’s position.

  140. Juany8

    Being right all the time? This the same guy that talked about Fields as a super star and Melo as an average player? I suppose everyone still thinks Melo’s ball hogging is the offense’s main problem? Ball movement only works when you have people who can dribble, pass, and make an open shot. Otherwise it just leads to turnovers and rushed Melo iso’s lol

  141. Frank O.

    BigBlueAL: They just won 4 in a row, even after tonight for as bad as they have played to start the season they will be 6-5.D’Antoni shouldnt be anywhere near close to losing his job.

    Like I said, not saying it’s fair, but this team looks utterly lost right now. That often is on the coach.
    But I have been the guy saying they have played well in spurts and there is reason to be optimistic.
    Tis has just been a horribly played and coached game. Has anyone seen any adjustments from first half to second?

  142. BigBlueAL

    Maybe the bench players will have confidence going into next game after playing decent in the 4th quarter??

  143. cgreene

    I will say that I liked how the backups gave effort and the team looks like it stuck together and didn’t get blown out in the end. Says good things about chemistry.

  144. d-mar

    Hey, it’s one game, but unfortunately we don’t get a chance for revenge, it’s the first and last time we play the Grizz in this bizarro season.

  145. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    When did I say Fields was a superstar? He was the best player on the Knicks last year (by far), but he’s been absolutely terrible this year. Like, D-League terrible. Worse than D-League. I don’t even know what to call that. Maybe something like the Chinese league that Wilson Chandler’s been dropping 40+ a night on.

    And yes, Melo’s an average player. Argue all you want, bro, but the numbers say what he is. It’s been argued ad nauseum on this site, and the arguments boil down to: 1) the numbers say he’s average; 2) the numbers say he’s slightly above-average; 3) my eyes tell me that he’s a top 15 player. Who ya got?

    Until you show me conclusive evidence that his ballstopping nonsense makes everyone else 5% more efficient from the field, I’m going to keep saying he’s average, because he is. Deal with it.

    And this Knicks team is maxed out garbage. Nothing more. The Chandler signing saved D’antoni’s ass; he might get another 50 games out of his contract before he gets canned. Otherwise, he might have ended the season 30-36 and been back in Italy by Memorial Day.

  146. Thomas B. Post author

    Melo, Stats, Jorts. Total minutes played 66. Total FGAs 20
    Shump. Total minutes played 27. Total FGAs 20.

  147. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    ruruland: Those kind of free agents are nothing to sneeze at. Remember, a lot of teams are in NY’s position.

    What do you mean “nothing to sneeze at?” Do you mean to tell me that Amar’e has earned his contract this season? Or do you think that $18M could have been better spent elsewhere? You know, on a point guard, maybe? Or a decent power forward who doesn’t think that a max contract makes him Dirk Nowitzki 2.0?

  148. Thomas B. Post author

    And this Knicks team is maxed out garbage. Nothing more. The Chandler signing saved D’antoni’s ass; he might get another 50 games out of his contract before he gets canned. Otherwise, he might have ended the season 30-36 and been back in Italy by Memorial Day.

    See what I mean about scathing critique?

  149. Jahredmen

    still held opponent under 100-silver lining? Much more fun watching bench in 4th chucking 3′s than the stumps and shump show.

  150. Shad0wF0x

    I actually enjoyed how the backups played out the game in the end. Maybe Toney will get his shot back.

  151. latke

    Douglas and Fields looked 100x more comfortable with no superstar (or in this game, no Iman Shumpert) to slow down the ball movement.

  152. nicos

    Fields wasn’t the best player on the Knicks by far last year. Berri (and you) had him as roughly twice as productive as anyone else on the team yet his +/- was only +1.5. Now you can’t read too much into plus minus but if a guy is better than everyone else on your team by a factor of two, you’d think he’d make a bit more of a difference. He was great at taking advantage of the spacing that was created with Amar’e & Felton running the P & R while everyone else hung out by the 3 point line- lots of room for cuts and offensive rebounds. He deserves some credit but that space isn’t there if the P & R is being run by Felton & Mosgov so Amar’e has something to do with that too. That space disappeared with Melo’s arrival and he’s been awful since. He was productive but completely overvalued by Berri.

  153. joe

    i saw alot tonight

    no husstle
    a tired knick team
    cold handed shooting and alot of bad shots and no chemistry with that being said the knicks have alot of work to do but i do believe if baron davis comes back and we let woodson chime in on actual games overall we will be ok cause it seems dantoni cant do it by himself ya know

  154. Juany8

    THCJ would also have you believe that last year the Mavericks would have been a better team with Kris Humpries or Reggie Evans taking Dirk’s minutes. But then when you think you can entirely determine a player’s value by looking at a box score and pretending defense and team context don’t exist, you’ll get a lot of funny looking player rankings. Like an all in one statistic that says Kevin Love is far better than Derrick Rose

  155. nicos

    latke:
    Douglas and Fields looked 100x more comfortable with no superstar (or in this game, no Iman Shumpert) to slow down the ball movement.

    They also looked 100x more comfortable when the game was over and Memphis pulled back the defensive pressure- when Memphis’s guards were actually applying pressure they were both awful.

  156. Thomas B. Post author

    Bill Walker 14pts, 3 ebs, 1 ast. 0 fumbles and a +/- of -1 is our player of the game. Man that is sad.

  157. ruruland

    The Honorable Cock Jowles: When did I say Fields was a superstar? He was the best player on the Knicks last year (by far), but he’s been absolutely terrible this year. Like, D-League terrible. Worse than D-League. I don’t even know what to call that. Maybe something like the Chinese league that Wilson Chandler’s been dropping 40+ a night on.And yes, Melo’s an average player. Argue all you want, bro, but the numbers say what he is. It’s been argued ad nauseum on this site, and the arguments boil down to: 1) the numbers say he’s average; 2) the numbers say he’s slightly above-average; 3) my eyes tell me that he’s a top 15 player. Who ya got?Until you show me conclusive evidence that his ballstopping nonsense makes everyone else 5% more efficient from the field, I’m going to keep saying he’s average, because he is. Deal with it.P>

    How does an average player lead a 50 win team in Roland rating/Simple rating the last 7 years?

    How does an average player crack the top 20 in PER 6 of the last 7 years, and finish 33rd the other year?

    How does an average player post a 24.3 PER in a 16 game playoff run?

    How does an average player improve his teams offense by an average of more than 5 points per game the last 6 years?

    What evidence is there that he’s average?
    LMAO

  158. tenebrous

    Chalk up another one for the l. I guess that’s the goal now: get as bad as u can and hope to draft an mj.

  159. tenebrous

    ruruland: How does an average player lead a 50 win team in Roland rating/Simple rating the last 7 years?

    How does an average player crack the top 20 in PER 6 of the last 7 years, and finish 33rd the other year?

    How does an average player post a 24.3 PER in a 16 game playoff run?

    How does an average player improve his teams offense by an average of more than 5 points per game the last 6 years?

    What evidence is there that he’s average?
    LMAO

    He’s avg bc thcj

  160. tenebrous

    ruruland: How does an average player lead a 50 win team in Roland rating/Simple rating the last 7 years?

    How does an average player crack the top 20 in PER 6 of the last 7 years, and finish 33rd the other year?

    How does an average player post a 24.3 PER in a 16 game playoff run?

    How does an average player improve his teams offense by an average of more than 5 points per game the last 6 years?

    What evidence is there that he’s average?
    LMAO

    He’s avg bc thcj says he is. But mayb that doesn’t make him avg.

  161. scogg888

    latke:
    Douglas and Fields looked 100x more comfortable with no superstar (or in this game, no Iman Shumpert) to slow down the ball movement.

    Douglas and Fields were drafted and trained to play in D’Antoni’s REAL offense. So when there aren’t any superstars running iso’s and overzealous rookies making questionable decisions, I suppose the team would run the traditional 7 seconds or less…I honestly didn’t really watch the last 10 minutes or so so I’m not sure if this was what happened.
    My point is now that Melo is here, and here for a long time presumably, its time to ditch the coach and the players that would only thrive in his system. It feels like an incredibly awkward stage between a rebuilding team and a polished contender. Most of our pieces are there but we don’t have the right coach or supporting players to make it work. I’m not hating on D’Antoni or any players in particular, but its time to make the transition. Unfortunately unless Phil Jackson is actually intent on being the next coach, any other change would probably be for the worse, and the knicks are not going to get much value for td or fields. So we’re probably gonna have to wait. Sucks.

  162. Spree8

    Shump needs to concentrate his energy on the defensive end and leave at that. There’s no need for him to be the hero with Melo & Stat out there on the court.

  163. tenebrous

    scogg888: Douglas and Fields were drafted and trained to play in D’Antoni’s REAL offense. So when there aren’t any superstars running iso’s and overzealous rookies making questionable decisions, I suppose the team would run the traditional 7 seconds or less…I honestly didn’t really watch the last 10 minutes or so so I’m not sure if this was what happened.
    My point is now that Melo is here, and here for a long time presumably, its time to ditch the coach and the players that would only thrive in his system. It feels like an incredibly awkward stage between a rebuilding team and a polished contender. Most of our pieces are there but we don’t have the right coach or supporting players to make it work. I’m not hating on D’Antoni or any players in particular, but its time to make the transition. Unfortunately unless Phil Jackson is actually intent on being the next coach, any other change would probably be for the worse, and the knicks are not going to get much value for td or fields. So we’re probably gonna have to wait. Sucks.

    R u trying to make our life more miserable for the next 4 years

  164. Juany8

    Wait tenebrous you forgot… David Berri has scientifically determined player value from a box score, it turns out all the millions spent on GMs, coaches, and scouts can be beaten by using a simple math formula. Somehow no one’s caught on to the fact that it’s better to build around Kris Humpries types than the Kobe Bryants of the world…

  165. ruruland

    Juany8: Wait tenebrous you forgot… David Berri has scientifically determined player value from a box score, it turns out all the millions spent on GMs, coaches, and scouts can be beaten by using a simple math formula. Somehow no one’s caught on to the fact that it’s better to build around Kris Humpries types than the Kobe Bryants of the world…

    I hear that. But I’d like to know what total valuation metric, or what combination of metrics this character would use to make the claim that the aformentioned player is average.

  166. jon abbey

    Spree8:
    Shump needs to concentrate his energy on the defensive end and leave at that. There’s no need for him to be the hero with Melo & Stat out there on the court.

    but were you actually watching? Melo was getting his shots, he would have had a fine game if he didn’t get hurt. Amare couldn’t do a damn thing against Gasol, he could have shot thirty times and not hit five of them. Shumpert took a few bad shots, but he missed a bunch of perfectly fine looks, and everyone else on the floor besides Melo looked clinically dead until garbage time.

  167. jon abbey

    at least Bill Walker had his best game of the year, D’Antoni really needs to consistently play at least 9 or 10 guys.

  168. Juany8

    Guys lets be honest, the only teams with point guard play as bad as ours are the Lakers and Heat, and their point guards take open shots and play within their limits, partly because the have other people on their team capable or running offense by themselves. Melo is not a guard. Would anyone call Durant a selfish chucker for not being able to run a pick and roll? He’s always averaged more turnovers than assists. What about Dirk? When was the last time anyone saw him bringing the ball up? Just because Lebron is capable of pulling it off doesn’t mean that anyone who isn’t a guard is even supposed to. If Baron Davis can simply push the pace, hit open guys, and handle ball pressure like a professional basketball player, it’ll make a massive impact on this team.

  169. d-mar

    Hahn summing up perfectly what it’s like to watch the Knicks on TNT:

    “Tough watching national broadcast. Analysts have shallow info on teams. No real feel for recent trends. No real perspective.’

  170. tenebrous

    r u saying kris humphries has character (by dumping kim) and kobe cheated on his wife (even though he is now divorcing her and hence is making everyone else feel better) so the latter is a cancer anyway?

  171. tenebrous

    d-mar:
    Hahn summing up perfectly what it’s like to watch the Knicks on TNT:

    “Tough watching national broadcast. Analysts have shallow info on teams. No real feel for recent trends. No real perspective.’

    perspective is out the window when someone hands u a buck. who can blame the receiver?

  172. jon abbey

    d-mar:
    Hahn summing up perfectly what it’s like to watch the Knicks on TNT:

    “Tough watching national broadcast. Analysts have shallow info on teams. No real feel for recent trends. No real perspective.’

    YES! glad someone said this.

  173. Spree8

    jon abbey: but were you actually watching? Melo was getting his shots, he would have had a fine game if he didn’t get hurt. Amare couldn’t do a damn thing against Gasol, he could have shot thirty times and not hit five of them. Shumpert took a few bad shots, but he missed a bunch of perfectly fine looks, and everyone else on the floor besides Melo looked clinically dead until garbage time.

    Yes, I was watching the game..as painfully as it was. I like Shump’s fearless mentality, but I think it’s a good indication to start looking at other options out there on the court when you bricked your first 5 shots. I really don’t see how much worse it could get. Unless the players encourage him to take more shots (I am pretty sure the coach did not). His plays seem a little selfish out there today to be frank.

  174. yoda4554

    ruruland: I hear that. But I’d like to know what total valuation metric, or what combination of metrics this character would use to make the claim that the aformentioned player is average.

    WS/48 has him at .128 for his career, which is only slightly above average. It’s really not that hard of an argument to make. The overall stats that value high-volume scoring without much attention to efficiency like him, but those that aren’t as impressed don’t. His scoring efficiency has been pretty consistently average, in the 54% zone, and particularly since he’s played most of his career with high-effiency teammates who’ve maintained their efficiency just fine without him suggests his scoring’s not really helping his teammates score. He has made himself a good rebounder for a 3, and can be a good passer when he wants to be, but whatever advantages those bring, along with the volume scoring, are largely canceled out by his below-average defense, leaving overall averageness (or slightly above). I do think it’s kind of damning that Denver’s defense (and team overall) vastly improved when he left, and that several of the players in NY have gotten starkly worse offensively since his arrival (especially Stoudemire and Fields).

  175. jon abbey

    Spree8: Yes, I was watching the game..as painfully as it was. I like Shump’s fearless mentality, but I think it’s a good indication to start looking at other options out there on the court when you bricked your first 5 shots.I really don’t see how much worse it could get. Unless the players encourage him to take more shots (I am pretty sure the coach did not). His plays seem a little selfish out there today to be frank.

    ok, I just wasn’t seeing those other options. obviously he took a handful of bad shots, but it seemed like every time NY tried to get into a halfcourt offense, Memphis jumped the passing lanes, stole the ball and dunked it. a really bad matchup for us even without Randolph, glad we don’t see them again.

  176. ruruland

    yoda4554: WS/48 has him at .128 for his career, which is only slightly above average. It’s really not that hard of an argument to make. The overall stats that value high-volume scoring without much attention to efficiency like him, but those that aren’t as impressed don’t. His scoring efficiency has been pretty consistently average, in the 54% zone, and particularly since he’s played most of his career with high-effiency teammates who’ve maintained their efficiency just fine without him suggests his scoring’s not really helping his teammates score. He has made himself a good rebounder for a 3, and can be a good passer when he wants to be, but whatever advantages those bring, along with the volume scoring, are largely canceled out by his below-average defense, leaving overall averageness (or slightly above). I do think it’s kind of damning that Denver’s defense (and team overall) vastly improved when he left, and that several of the players in NY have gotten starkly worse offensively since his arrival (especially Stoudemire and Fields).

    Denver hasn’t improved. The entire team struggled during the Melo trade talk period. They were bruning off a lot of steam after the trade. When you look at how Denver performed with a somehwat healthy team from 2008 to 2010, their winning percentage and offensive and defensive efficiency were quite comparable.

    Nene and Aflallo’s efficiency are down quite a bit post-trade. Those were the two guys who shared the most minutes with Melo. We both know Amar’e and to a lesser extent Fields have struggled becuase of the pg issue.

Comments are closed.