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Tuesday, September 23, 2014

2011-2012 Game Thread Knicks @ Celtics

In game thoughts here.

479 comments on “2011-2012 Game Thread Knicks @ Celtics

  1. BT.Knicks

    New(er) Knicks fan here.

    Off to a tough start already =( I hope they don’t crash the boards this well all game.

  2. Frank O.

    Boy, Amare’s D…
    His rotations are so slow. It feels like he’s a spectator with his feet in cement.
    I think they’re coaching Lin up now that he’s seen what the Celts are doing. He looked a bit confused.

  3. Bruno Almeida

    BT.Knicks:
    nice to see BD hit a three early though! good vibes on that.

    yeah, it was a pretty terrible shot but veteran guys like him need to do that once in a while.

  4. Bruno Almeida

    Frank O.:
    Boy, Amare’s D…
    His rotations are so slow. It feels like he’s a spectator with his feet in cement.
    I think they’re coaching Lin up now that he’s seen what the Celts are doing. He looked a bit confused.

    he looks like a lamppost out there, no effort at all.

  5. BT.Knicks

    +1

    Twice already no?

    I think Lin shoulda gotten that charge call earlier too instead of being called for a foul. Would have loved to seen a slow mo on that.

    Doug:
    Vintage Jeffries!

  6. Frank O.

    BT.Knicks:
    +1

    Twice already no?

    I think Lin shoulda gotten that charge call earlier too instead of being called for a foul. Would have loved to seen a slow mo on that.

    Think his feet were inside the half circle

  7. BT.Knicks

    haha… Even Linsanity is not up for a 270 pass out for a Novak 3.

    Frank O.:
    This is getting embarrassing for the first unit.
    Ridiculous

  8. Z

    Okay– Baron has clearly changed his “chucker spots”. He just passed up a layup to find Novak in the corner for for 3. So cool.

  9. Bruno Almeida

    Frank O.:
    They’re going to attack Novak’s D

    we need to keep J.R on Pierce if they’re going to do that, let Novak guard Bass / Wilcox and force the scrubs to beat you.

  10. BT.Knicks

    Am I the only one that is still nervous on Gameday about Lin getting “outclassed”? I mean – I KNOW he’s proven himself over and over… but I’m always fraking nervous… I’m almost annoyed at myself for being nervous despite the ‘proof’ of the past 16 games.

  11. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    BT.Knicks:
    Am I the only one that is still nervous on Gameday about Lin getting “outclassed”?I mean – I KNOW he’s proven himself over and over… but I’m always fraking nervous… I’m almost annoyed at myself for being nervous despite the ‘proof’ of the past 16 games.

    I don’t know what that word means, but if outclassed means “not being athletic, talented, or skilled enough to play with NBA talent,” I don’t see how that’s possible at this point.

    Fields played on a bad Stanford team, yet he hasn’t been “outclassed” enough to be a below-average player.

    It’s a matter of perception as the media constructs it. We must remember that sometimes the best athletes are not the best basketball players.

  12. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    DRed:

    I can’t tell you how excited I get when Amar’e shoots a 5-foot jumper. I imagine checking Basketball Reference and seeing a TS% that says .6__ and I get butterflies all in the stomach.

    And is it just me, or should Lin put his right arm in a sling and play a summer’s worth of basketball with just his left hand this offseason? Imagine how much more effective he’d be if he developed a set of moves to the left…

  13. BT.Knicks

    SHUMP SHUMP!!!! I’m ALL LIN on him despite my love for Fields.

    Nick C – most Def true

  14. Juany8

    Jeremy Lin needs to relax with these passes, make the smart play not a freaking alley oop from half court

  15. Z

    Wow, Doc. “We need to get’s tops to win.” Your players, in their combined 5,000,000,000 nba games, have never heard that speech, I’m sure.

  16. BT.Knicks

    Fields with a thread-the-needle assist.

    This period has been nothing short of basketball porn

  17. jon abbey

    The Honorable Cock Jowles: I don’t know what that word means, but if outclassed means “not being athletic, talented, or skilled enough to play with NBA talent,” I don’t see how that’s possible at this point.

    Fields played on a bad Stanford team, yet he hasn’t been “outclassed” enough to be a below-average player.

    It’s a matter of perception as the media constructs it. We must remember that sometimes the best athletes are not the best basketball players.

    so much of what you say is entirely wrong, I think you’re some kind of bot sometimes.

  18. jon abbey

    Juany8:
    I hate to say it, but Lin has been our worst player during this run.

    him and Fields have the worst +/- of anyone who’s played so far.

    where’s Jorts? he was supposedly killing it in practice.

  19. BT.Knicks

    Even Stat and Melo.

    I don’t think I’ve seen Stat with this much energy and ‘pep’ in his step since the Bulls game.

    The best part of this is that We can be sure that the 2nd unit will keep this level of energy up and that the Celtics are creaky old and wont be able to keep up in the 2nd half.

    Bruno Almeida:
    ball movement has been fantastic right now, nice to see.

  20. Juany8

    I’m almost glad Lin is in foul trouble, maybe I’m too optimistic about Davis but Lin can’t pass right now

  21. jon abbey

    slick steal by Baron after a terrible turnover, STOP SHOWING REACTION SHOTS OF DOC RIVERS.

  22. Knicks4Eva

    Jesus, how much Doc are we gonna see? There was too much in Duke/UNC last night, then again tonight…sigh.

  23. massive

    I’m thoroughly enjoying watching the Knicks control this game, Amar’e play good basketball, and Melo play like Kevin Durant (buying into the system, letting others create his offense). Also, seeing Paul Pierce not happy always makes me happy. Baron Davis does need to stop gambling, though.

    Did Ray Allen just miss a three?

  24. massive

    One thing I don’t think we can afford against the Celtics is undisciplined basketball. No reason to foul, or even be near Rondo there. Hopefully we can cut the turnovers down going into the 2nd half.

  25. Bruno Almeida

    we need to drop the fancy passes, my god.

    it’s ok to go for one or two lobs once in a while, but trying to turn every play into a highlight reel leads to this many turnovers.

  26. BT.Knicks

    I’m no expert by any means… but the refs have indeed seemed like they are just making random calls out there. some of the whistles have been absolutely weird to my untrained eyes.

    Juany8:
    Ok the refs have lost their minds

  27. Bruno Almeida

    pretty afraid about the 2nd half, this looks like a game in which Boston might be able to come back.

  28. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    jon abbey: so much of what you say is entirely wrong, I think you’re some kind of bot sometimes.

    What are you talking about?

  29. Juany8

    BT.Knicks:
    I’m no expert by any means… but the refs have indeed seemed like they are just making random calls out there. some of the whistles have been absolutely weird to my untrained eyes.

    It’s an underrated effect of the lockout, the refs have been absolute shit all year. It’s not even that they favor one team or another, it’s that there is zero consistency, especially on charge calls.

  30. Knicks4Eva

    It’s not going to work to be undisciplined against them, true, but the Celtics have been falling into the classic reaction to D’Antoni offense…trying to keep up, and they’ve had their share of undisciplined turnovers and bad passes.

  31. jon abbey

    when JR Smith starts hitting 3s (and he will), this offense is going to be as good as ruruland has been talking about for a week or two.

  32. ruruland

    Some easily correctable issues for the second half. This is not the same team that would give up second-half leads to the C’s, as they have in what 4 of their last 7 games.

    How many of you figured the Knicks could score 56 on a tough Celtics defense when Lin is 2pts with 4 turnovers?

    And I’m laughing at all the fools who thought Melo could only play ISO.

  33. ruruland

    jon abbey: when JR Smith starts hitting 3s (and he will), this offense is going to be as good as ruruland has been talking about for a week or two.

    Yep. Jr hasn’t done anything yet offensively. We’re only scratching the surface.

  34. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    jon abbey: exactly what I said, your posts are so often 180 degrees from reality. in that case it was some twaddle about how Lin could never be overmatched.

    Did I say he could never be overmatched? Fuck no. Don’t misrepresent my arguments, O King of Eye-Test Nonsense.

  35. ruruland

    jon abbey: goddamn, Melo does some stupid stupid shit.

    That was an awful foul.

    This one of the few teams that smart and diverse enough to score pretty efficently against the switch defense.
    I’m still sticking to a 10+ point win though

  36. massive

    I feel like every time the Knicks play the Celtics, the Knicks go up big, and then the referees always open the door for a Celtics comeback.

    I love how ESPN gives the Knicks zero credit for the Celtics bad showing on offense. “KG won’t post up.” Well, maybe that’s due to the size upfront the Knicks have compared to the Celtics. How about the turnovers the 2nd unit’s feisty defense garners every night? When it comes to defense, the national media will never give us credit for it. I really wouldn’t be surprised if Tyson Chandler isn’t All-NBA 2nd team defense this year.

  37. formido

    I love how the Knicks have looked in full control throughout, but the half time highlights focus on the Knick turnovers. Sorry, guys, this is what winning basketball looks like. You don’t “have to do a better job of protecting the ball than that”, when your decision making is precisely why you are winning the game. What people seem to not understand, and I’m sure this will never change, is that every play is a risk/reward estimate, and Lin and the Knicks, over the last 14 or 15 games, are getting those estimates right in aggregate, regardless of what nincompoop talking heads say. Basketball is about winning, not optimizing ancillary stats.

  38. ruruland

    massive: I feel like every time the Knicks play the Celtics, the Knicks go up big, and then the referees always open the door for a Celtics comeback.I love how ESPN gives the Knicks zero credit for the Celtics bad showing on offense. “KG won’t post up.” Well, maybe that’s due to the size upfront the Knicks have compared to the Celtics. How about the turnovers the 2nd unit’s feisty defense garners every night? When it comes to defense, the national media will never give us credit for it. I really wouldn’t be surprised if Tyson Chandler isn’t All-NBA 2nd team defense this year.

    KG has never posted up. They’re still mid-range and 3 jump shooting team (which they’re very good at).

    But most of their damage has come off of turnovers. Keep those down and it’ll be a runaway.

  39. jon abbey

    formido:
    I love how the Knicks have looked in full control throughout, but the half time highlights focus on the Knick turnovers. Sorry, guys, this is what winning basketball looks like. You don’t “have to do a better job of protecting the ball than that”, when your decision making is precisely why you are winning the game. What people seem to not understand, and I’m sure this will never change, is that every play is a risk/reward estimate, and Lin and the Knicks, over the last 14 or 15 games, are getting those estimates right in aggregate, regardless of what nincompoop talking heads say. Basketball is about winning, not optimizing ancillary stats.

    yeah, turnovers are really overrated, at least in some circumstances, I’m realizing more and more.

  40. DRed

    jon abbey: tell us again how Baron Davis is worthless, please.

    Can I get you to both agree that we could do with less discussion about Rondo’s contract status by the announcers in the second half?

  41. ruruland

    jon abbey: yeah, turnovers are really overrated, at least in some circumstances, I’m realizing more and more.

    But I’d say around half of these turnovers simply won’t be the norm in a few weeks. They’ve been from Lin and Baron not really having a feel for the anticipation of where guys will be.

    You’ll always live with the penetration turnovers from Lin.

  42. jon abbey

    DRed: Can I get you to both agree that we could do with less discussion about Rondo’s contract status by the announcers in the second half?

    I don’t care what they talk about as long as they show the actual game and not reaction shots after baskets.

  43. ruruland

    jon abbey: I don’t care what they talk about as long as they show the actual game and not reaction shots after baskets.

    Thank you.

  44. jon abbey

    ruruland: But I’d say around half of these turnovers simply won’t be the norm in a few weeks. They’ve been from Lin and Baron not really having a feel for the anticipation of where guys will be.

    You’ll always live with the penetration turnovers from Lin.

    I agree, but they also got a lot of easy baskets from going for the tough passes that half, which is why I don’t mind the turnovers so so much.

  45. ruruland

    formido: I love how the Knicks have looked in full control throughout, but the half time highlights focus on the Knick turnovers. Sorry, guys, this is what winning basketball looks like. You don’t “have to do a better job of protecting the ball than that”, when your decision making is precisely why you are winning the game. What people seem to not understand, and I’m sure this will never change, is that every play is a risk/reward estimate, and Lin and the Knicks, over the last 14 or 15 games, are getting those estimates right in aggregate, regardless of what nincompoop talking heads say. Basketball is about winning, not optimizing ancillary stats.

    Excellent!

  46. ruruland

    jon abbey: I agree, but they also got a lot of easy baskets from going for the tough passes that half, which is why I don’t mind the turnovers so so much.

    I don’t either. But many of the turnovers have been a result of not-so-tough passes, at least when guys are comfortable with each other’s movement.

  47. johnlocke

    Keys for 2nd half..

    Stat looks good….will he keep it up?
    Lin and Davis too many difficult passes — make the easy play
    Get Novak some more burn if he stays hot
    Keep playing good team defense…don’t let Pierce burn us

  48. cgreene

    Hope we are prepared for the Ray Allen barrage and the Paul Pierce daggers. It’s coming.

  49. Gamecockerbocker

    Is there a team in the NBA that sets more moving screens than Boston. Any player that sets more than Garnett?

  50. DRed

    Landry, if you’re going to finish at the rim like Shump there’s no reason you should be playing over him.

  51. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    jon abbey:
    two terrible turnovers by Fields to start the third, he did that last game too.

    SEND HIS ASS TO THE D-LEAGUE, AM I RIGHT

  52. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    Famz:
    THCJ just STFU. You are annoying man.

    Who are you? You new here? Welcome! I strongly recommend reading the “Layman’s Guide to Advanced Statistics,” which you can find at the top of the page.

    Happy posting!

  53. jon abbey

    here you go, THCJ:

    11:40 Landry Fields personal foul (Ray Allen draws the foul)
    11:19 Landry Fields bad pass (Rajon Rondo steals) 56-51
    10:59 Landry Fields misses layup 56-53
    10:26 Landry Fields bad pass (Kevin Garnett steals)
    9:07 Landry Fields misses two point shot

  54. Gamecockerbocker

    Shumpert or Smith HAS to start over Landry. He’s just not good enough to start on a good NBA team. Can’t miss those layups can’t make those bad passes can’t consistently make open jumpers (even though he does have a three in this one) and still start for us.

  55. Thomas B. Post author

    Landry is killing us. In three touches he had one missed layup, and two horrid passes. Why is he out there now that you have Shumpert and Smith? Bench him and let him back up the 3, which is what he should be doing anyway!

  56. Bruno Almeida

    cgreene:
    Fields just single handedly blew this quarter

    dude, it’s been 3:30 minutes so far in the 3rd quarter, relax.

  57. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    By the way, Abbey:

    Baron Davis has 5 TO in 11 minutes. Be even in your judgment.

  58. jon abbey

    The Honorable Cock Jowles:
    By the way, Abbey:

    Baron Davis has 5 TO in 11 minutes. Be even in your judgment.

    he also turned the game after Lin went out with his second foul, he looks way better than Lin so far this game.

  59. cgreene

    i would have gone to shumpert over smith there as well. smith has not been shooting well.

  60. Thomas B. Post author

    DRed:
    Shump Shump has as many TOs in 9 minutes as Landry does in 15.Just saying.

    How many steals vs. Landry?

  61. jon abbey

    DRed:
    Shump Shump has as many TOs in 9 minutes as Landry does in 15.Just saying.

    Shumpert also has a +9 while Fields has a -13, just saying.

  62. Gamecockerbocker

    I don’t get the blind love for fields. He’s been horrible today. Lin has too and Davis does have a bunch of turnovers but Landry has just been flat out sad to watch.

  63. dogrufus

    ruruland:
    This is not the same team that would give up second-halfleads to the C’s, as they have in what 4 of their last 7 games.

    Damn you…

  64. BT.Knicks

    totally agree. he did well in the Q1 but badly in Q3. And Pringles wont dump a guy after one bad game (Cavs game). maybe after 3 or 4 but I expect Fields will start in the next game against the Mavs too even after this outing (one last shot).

    none-the-less, those were probably the worst 3 minutes he’s ever played as a Knick.

    Bruno Almeida: dude, it’s been 3:30 minutes so far in the 3rd quarter, relax.

  65. dogrufus

    Smith needs to start because Fields can;t shoot and our starting lineup sucks with no spacing.

  66. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    DRed:
    Shump Shump has as many TOs in 9 minutes as Landry does in 15.Just saying.

    Yeah, but Fields doesn’t look good enough for this team. His shooting stats, as Frank O. pointed out, are far better than Shumpert’s, but he’s obviously outclassed out there. Simply not good enough against the upper tier of NBA talent.

    Baron Davis’s 5 TO, though, is not an indicator that he’s outclassed. He looks good out there, even if he does, according to the box score, appear to have given up the ball five times before the Knicks could attempt a scoring play. But it’s Baron Davis — we know he’s an elite player.

  67. Bruno Almeida

    Gamecockerbocker:
    I don’t get the blind love for fields. He’s been horrible today. Lin has too and Davis does have a bunch of turnovers but Landry has just been flat out sad to watch.

    look, I don’t get the blind HATE for Fields…

    he’s a decent NBA player, not a very good starter, not the 11th man on a .500 team.

    just because he has a bad stretch people are going to send him to the D-League?

    oh, by the way, Fields is on the bench and Boston is still running over us.

  68. jon abbey

    The Honorable Cock Jowles: Yeah, but Fields doesn’t look good enough for this team. His shooting stats, as Frank O. pointed out, are far better than Shumpert’s, but he’s obviously outclassed out there. Simply not good enough against the upper tier of NBA talent.

    Baron Davis’s 5 TO, though, is not an indicator that he’s outclassed. He looks good out there, even if he does, according to the box score, appear to have given up the ball five times before the Knicks could attempt a scoring play. But it’s Baron Davis — we know he’s an elite player.

    ooh, there you go. go with sarcasm and you actually get something right, kudos.

  69. Gamecockerbocker

    Bruno Almeida: look, I don’t get the blind HATE for Fields…

    he’s a decent NBA player, not a very good starter, not the 11th man on a .500 team.

    just because he has a bad stretch people are going to send him to the D-League?

    oh, by the way, Fields is on the bench and Boston is still running over us.

    I agree. We have two players on this team that should start over fields.

  70. Bruno Almeida

    Gamecockerbocker: I agree. We have two players on this team that should start over fields.

    I agree on J.R, but not on Shumpert… he’s still terrible shooting, even worse than Fields this season.

    blaming everything bad that happened this quarter on Fields is absolutely stupid.

  71. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    Fields really damaged the team’s collective psyche. Turnovers are contagious.

  72. Juany8

    Lol, this is why I wasn’t sad as a Rockets fan that we gave up Lin. He was the clearcut third best PG on our team behind Dragic, and absolutely nothing he has shown has proven otherwise

  73. Gamecockerbocker

    Bruno Almeida: I agree on J.R, but not on Shumpert… he’s still terrible shooting, even worse than Fields this season.

    blaming everything bad that happened this quarter on Fields is absolutely stupid.

    I blame Lin as much as Landry but fields was te problem at the beginning of the quarter.

  74. Thomas B. Post author

    Davis with another turnover…no wait that was a three pointer. My mistake.

  75. BT.Knicks

    I didn’t hear all these Lin haters talking in February? The whole team is playing sub-par this 3rd Q… no doubt in that. I’m surprised some folks are so fickle

  76. Bruno Almeida

    yeah, taking Fields out and putting J.R and Shumpert in really changed the game!

    long 2s that clang off the iron are the way to go, apparently.

  77. johnlocke

    Where is Stat?
    Lin and Davis still turning it over
    Novak gone cold
    Pierce is now burning us….

    johnlocke:

    Keys for 2nd half..

    Stat looks good….will he keep it up?
    Lin and Davis too many difficult passes — make the easy play
    Get Novak some more burn if he stays hot
    Keep playing good team defense…don’t let Pierce burn us

  78. BT.Knicks

    This last period is the real test for the 1st squad… They need to prove they are a playoff team right here under duress.

  79. cgreene

    terrible rotations by mda btw. that will get lost in the shuffle of the story. why do we have 5 subs in the game? why isnt chandler in the game? why isnt amare in the game? they didnt cause the turnovers. they were playing well. dantoni fell for the whole story about how his bench is awesome and instead of rotating them in with the starters he now has a scenario where he has 2 teams on his hands. bad coaching.

  80. jon abbey

    terrible toss on the jump ball, refs can’t even do that right.

    come on, Baron, keep it going.

  81. Gamecockerbocker

    Lmfao at Pierce hugging Jeffries arm on that replay. That describes how the celtics play basketball an get away with ALOT of stuff.

  82. jon abbey

    cgreene:
    terrible rotations by mda btw.that will get lost in the shuffle of the story.why do we have 5 subs in the game?why isnt chandler in the game?why isnt amare in the game?they didnt cause the turnovers.they were playing well.dantoni fell for the whole story about how his bench is awesome and instead of rotating them in with the starters he now has a scenario where he has 2 teams on his hands.bad coaching.

    and he still isn’t playing Jorts.

  83. BT.Knicks

    1st squad w/o Fields but with JR Smith/Novak needs to show what its made of.

    remember – Linsanity won against Mavs, Raptors, TWolves all in the 4th quarter… Knicks can do it again… and I don’t think they will have a psyche problem…. only a matter of execution.

  84. cgreene

    of course dantoni doesnt come back w melo to start the 4th bc jr smith is playing so well.

  85. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    I’m applying the same evenness of judgment to Davis that you apply to Fields. You mad, dude?

  86. david

    Unlike a lot of people around here, I like Fields and I like playing a separate second unit a times. But I think he might fit in better with the second unit than the first unit. His best traits — movement off the ball, rebounding, size on defense — fill a hole on the 2nd unit, but his lack of a 3 point shot and quickness guarding twos is a real problem with the starters. Moving Smith to the starting lineup and Fields to the bench would be a good move, imo…

  87. Gamecockerbocker

    Fuck.these.refs. If that’s a T Miami should get one on every point they score (exaggeration).

  88. Gamecockerbocker

    And now Jeffries. Wow. These refs are giving Boston the game.. Sorry but that’s what’s happening now.

  89. DRed

    david:
    Unlike a lot of people around here, I like Fields and I like playing a separate second unit a times. But I think he might fit in better with the second unit than the first unit.His best traits — movement off the ball, rebounding, size on defense — fill a hole on the 2nd unit, but his lack of a 3 point shot and quickness guarding twos is a real problem with the starters.Moving Smith to the starting lineup and Fields to the bench would be a good move, imo…

    I don’t particularly care who starts. It’s certainly worth a shot. Landry and Lin seemed to have good chemistry, but it might be that Landry and Carmelo are just a terrible fit together.

  90. david

    This might be the most inconsistently refereed game I’ve seen in a long time. They have gone from letting them kill each other to calling ticky tack fouls (and non-fouls).

  91. d-mar

    KG yells curse words at the opposition every single time he scores, and NEVER gets T’d up.

  92. jon abbey

    david:
    This might be the most inconsistently refereed game I’ve seen in a long time.They have gone from letting them kill each other to calling ticky tack fouls (and non-fouls).

    yep, terrible

  93. david

    DRed — agree that starting doesn’t matter in and of itself, but the mixes are important. The need for spacing and ability to keep up with guards when we have the big front line calls for at least one more shooter, while a front line with Novak and Jeffries needs a bit more rebounding from the other spots.

  94. jon abbey

    D’Antoni is making Baron play too many minutes because Lin looked so bad, he’s not ready for this many.

  95. Frank O.

    Man, I step out to get dog food and run a few important errands at half and return late in the 3rd to see all hell break loose. Lots of nastiness, an the game is tough too. Lol
    I see Fields had his typical two minute brain fart and hasn’t been effective, Davis continues to show rust with his TOs.
    But this game is far from over. Both teams are going to make runs.
    They’re hanging close in Boston.
    I think they’re about ready for a run. PUT THE SECOND TEAM IN A BURY THE CELTS! Lol

  96. d-mar

    Melo seems to be able to get to the rim pretty easily, I would keep going to him. But then of course he would be a ball stopping, non-team player.

  97. johnlocke

    Think Fields is done for the game…(and could spell end of his starting duties shortly thereafter)…JR Swish needs to recover his touch…the only 3 pt shooter we can reliably count on right now is Novak

  98. DRed

    7:03 NY – Carmelo Anthony offensive rebound 80-88
    7:03 NY – Carmelo Anthony misses tip shot 80-88
    7:03 NY – Carmelo Anthony offensive rebound 80-88
    7:05 NY – Carmelo Anthony misses layup 80-88
    7:05 NY – Carmelo Anthony offensive rebound 80-88
    7:07 NY – Carmelo Anthony misses layup

    hahahaha Charles Smithian.

  99. JR Sec 112

    feed melo rest of game. celts i think have 4 fouls now? lets get to the line. Disagree with those who want to take out BD…he still looks fresh out there.

  100. BT.Knicks

    this 8 min right here… Melo and Stat will earn their $40m for the year. This is why we have ‘em right? I think they will show it. They have to – even if its for pride.

  101. johnlocke

    If Charles Smith had gotten fouled that would have been great…

    DRed:
    7:03NY – Carmelo Anthony offensive rebound80-88
    7:03NY – Carmelo Anthony misses tip shot80-88
    7:03NY – Carmelo Anthony offensive rebound80-88
    7:05NY – Carmelo Anthony misses layup80-88
    7:05NY – Carmelo Anthony offensive rebound80-88
    7:07NY – Carmelo Anthony misses layup

    hahahahaCharles Smithian.

  102. Thomas B. Post author

    I think we just witnessed the death of Amare Stoudemire.

    Bow your heads, Knicks fans. Bow your heads.

  103. DRed

    Is there somewhere where I can find how many times a player gets his shot blocked? I’d like to back up my future complaints about Amare getting rejected too often.

  104. Frank O.

    It is hard to understand what has happened to Amare’s leaping ability.
    He looks like Jeffries around the glass

  105. Kikuchiyo

    jon abbey:
    if Baron has anything left, he should come back in for the last few minutes.

    Yeah, because Lin doesn’t play well in 4th quarters.

  106. BT.Knicks

    HEEEEELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLSSSSSSSSSSS YYYYYYYYYYYYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAa

  107. Thomas B. Post author

    The moment Lin goes left bad things happen, but damn is he making up for it right now!!

  108. jon abbey

    Kikuchiyo: Yeah, because Lin doesn’t play well in 4th quarters.

    he just doesn’t have much today, they got lucky on that play.

  109. jon abbey

    DRed:
    Should we put Baron in now, Abbey, or wait another minute?

    heh, seriously? he turned it over again and was lucky to get it back, then Shumpert bailed him out with a sick catch on a bad pass.

  110. d-mar

    You’d think the announcers might comment on why one of the Knicks starters has not played the whole 4th quarter

  111. BT.Knicks

    dude – its freaking basketball man… its all percentages and luck

    jon abbey: he just doesn’t have much today, they got lucky on that play.

  112. MSA

    Lin have to change those snickers.

    I haven’t seen somebody drift so much since need for speed…

  113. DRed

    jon abbey: heh, seriously? he turned it over again and was lucky to get it back, then Shumpert bailed him out with a sick catch on a bad pass.

    Yeah, seriously. We need to get Lin used to games like this if we’re going to do anything in the future. Baron’s not the long term answer. We need to find out if Lin can be.

  114. cgreene

    If they switch that ball screen on Pierce on this last play with Lin they will lose. Why is that the strategy???

  115. johnlocke

    Having said that… Melo needs to fight over these damn picks and defend Pierce…no more switches for Pierce

  116. Nick C.

    How about that Lin Melo magic! The inbounding, the slash from the angle and the money jumper by the games greatest closer

  117. johnlocke

    Don’t hate his isos…hate his isos with 18 seconds left on the shotclock and holding it for 12 seconds

    Gamecockerbocker:
    Damn I hate those Melo isos what a bum.

  118. BT.Knicks

    talk about intensity on all sides… all 3 teams brought their game and heart in this one guys (the Celts and both Knicks 1st and 2nd squads)

    wow.

  119. BT.Knicks

    take Lin out for the Defense here… put in JJ if need be… put in some defensive players RIGHT NOW!!

  120. Thomas B. Post author

    Wow. As bad as that Arby’s Reuben Sandwich looks, I’d rather see that the Landry Field’s jumpshot.

  121. dogrufus

    Man, if only we didn’t have an overrated ball-stopper out there destroying our chemistry tonight…

  122. ruruland

    johnlocke: Thank god JR Swish can jump…because another no fight over the screen from Melo

    This team switches on all ball screens. That’s the strategy.

  123. Juany8

    Let’s not blame Melo for the team’s defensive philosophy, luckily MDA adjusted and put in JR, who can guard Pierce on switches. That was the right adjustment, and it happened

  124. ruruland

    Juany8: Let’s not blame Melo for the team’s defensive philosophy, luckily MDA adjusted and put in JR, who can guard Pierce on switches. That was the right adjustment, and it happened

    Exactly

  125. DRed

    BT.Knicks:
    This will be an even bigger win than against the Lakers and the Mavs at home

    This is even more your fault than Landry Fields.

  126. DRed

    Well, we certainly finished better than Boston. Let’s put these old bastards away in OT.

  127. Gamecockerbocker

    Would’ve been ticky-tack but pierce was riding Melo that whole possession.

  128. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    Frank O.:
    Wow. Fucking Paul Pierce is so great…and so fucking annoying

    Wonder how many Jayhawk coeds said the same thing between ’96 and ’98. You an alum?

  129. ruruland

    Nick C.: F’in Paul Pierce. I’m sick of typing that over the years.

    Celtics are playing as well as they have all year. This is the 60 win version the Knicks are getting today.

  130. MSA

    Well, at least Boston is old as Hell…

    The “Big Three” played 35,36 and 41 minutes.

    Let’s hope they fell apart in OT

  131. johnlocke

    We need to work on fighting over screens and not getting into mismatches….has been killing us all game

  132. Gamecockerbocker

    Apparently the officials no longer like Linsanity. Two drives with some contact two no calls

  133. ruruland

    johnlocke: We need to work on fighting over screens and not getting into mismatches….has been killing us all game

    this is Mike Woodson’s defense. Smart diverse offenses can kill it.

  134. Thomas B. Post author

    Friends we are gathered here today to lay to rest the explosive athleticism of Amare Stoudemire. May his vertical leap rest in peace.

  135. DRed

    And you can stick a big fork in Amare.

    Refs have also not done us any favors. That ridiculous T on Shump turned out to be more important than it shoudl have been.

  136. dogrufus

    well, game over

    looks like we came back within a hair and gave it away, exactly as predicted

    hi 8th seed

    enjoy our sweep vs miami guys

  137. ruruland

    dogrufus: well, game overlooks like we came back within a hair and gave it away, exactly as predictedhi 8th seedenjoy our sweep vs miami guys

    oh my god

  138. Gamecockerbocker

    I swear to god they blew that last whole before Brandon bass caught the ball.

  139. BT.Knicks

    Too early for that BS man… is this how you approach all matters in life? such a ridiculous assertion.

    dogrufus:
    well, game over

    looks like we came back within a hair and gave it away, exactly as predicted

    hi 8th seed

    enjoy our sweep vs miami guys

  140. BT.Knicks

    I’m freaking impressed by the Celtics fans… amazing fan base screw the Garden fair-weather fans…

  141. Doug

    dogrufus:
    well, game over

    looks like we came back within a hair and gave it away, exactly as predicted

    hi 8th seed

    enjoy our sweep vs miami guys

    I’ve never seen you here before.

  142. BigBlueAL

    Of all the heart-breaking losses to the Celtics, this was by far the worst (and stupidest). So fucking predictable.

  143. ruruland

    Disappointing game. Still very confident in what this team is going to do. Celtics are going to be beastly out.

  144. Bruno Almeida

    DRed:
    I’d say Amare plays teflon D, but I don’t want to denigrate a useful polymer.

    yeah, his D has been at an all-time terrible level today.

    people might look at his box score and it’s half decent, but he gave away much more on D than what he contributed on O.

    he needs to go, it’s past the time already.

  145. jon abbey

    Nick C.: You don’t give up do you?

    uh, I like Lin and think he should play more minutes than Baron, no matter who starts, but Rondo has killed him today. he has 20 assists and 17 boards!!!

  146. Degree_Absolute

    I don’t understand why Novak is inbounding the last possession of regulation then seeing no minutes at all in OT. Really fucking dumb.

  147. d-mar

    I still can’t believe Pierce hit that 3 pointer. It’s just uncanny how year after year after year he just tortures the Knicks.

  148. joe

    every loss to boston always looks the same ray allen fuels the almost put out fire and paul pierce seals it then………we fold in over time or the last 60 sec……its like we want it more then they do………..if we cant beat boston we have no chance in the playoffs much less making it to the playoffs

  149. Juany8

    Damn again Lin is young so I’m hoping he can continue improving, but now that he’s become a big story opposing point guards are destroying him. He doesn’t have very good vision either, he forced a ridiculous amount of shots in this game when he could have at least reset or passed out. It’s disconcerting that this is his second game against an elite defense where he’s just a crappy player.

  150. JR Sec 112

    rondo certainly killed him on the boards and Lin’s rotations werent good. Maybe they should have played BD a bit in OT? just for the matchup – BD looked fresh out there and was playing pretty good D in the 2nd half.

  151. DRed

    jon abbey: uh, I like Lin and think he should play more minutes than Baron, no matter who starts, but Rondo has killed him today. he has 20 assists and 17 boards!!!

    Rondo killed everyone. He’s awesome. Our superstars shot 15-37. God, that was frustrating. So close. Novak, Jeffries and Shump were really the only ones who played well. I’d like to know why Chandler sat so much in the second half. Amare started well, but he didn’t do shit after halftime.

  152. EB

    We blew this game when we decided to throw 30,000,000 straight alley oops that turned into turnovers. Need our PGs to make smarter plays

  153. ess-dog

    Yeah Rondo with 18, 17 and 20, what a stud. This is the guy they want to trade??

    3rd Q. and beginning of OT killed us.

  154. jon abbey

    DRed: I’d like to know why Chandler sat so much in the second half.

    they were trying to come back, the lineup with Novak and Shumpert was doing well.

  155. ruruland

    Juany8: Damn again Lin is young so I’m hoping he can continue improving, but now that he’s become a big story opposing point guards are destroying him. He doesn’t have very good vision either, he forced a ridiculous amount of shots in this game when he could have at least reset or passed out. It’s disconcerting that this is his second game against an elite defense where he’s just a crappy player.

    The vision is what concerns me most. He missed a ton of open cutters on drives.

  156. BT.Knicks

    That Pierce 3 was nutz. had no business going in.

    the officiating decided this game. no doubt about it…

    and the team overshot the Energy meter… they underperformed in the 1st half against the Cavs and overshot today… they need a middle ground. Half of those turn-overs happened in the same 12 minute period where we were going in overdrive…

  157. Degree_Absolute

    Obviously Pierce is hitting that shot. I can’t believe we had no 3 pt threat in the game for all but 10 seconds of OT when D’Antoni stresses the importance of spacing in nearly every interview.

    Usually when players don’t score, play defense or rebound they don’t see the floor during crunch time. Amare’s minutes killed us.

  158. ruruland

    DRed: Rondo killed everyone. He’s awesome. Our superstars shot 15-37. God, that was frustrating. So close. Novak, Jeffries and Shump were really the only ones who played well. I’d like to know why Chandler sat so much in the second half. Amare started well, but he didn’t do shit after halftime.

    That missed dunk was a killer.

  159. Kikuchiyo

    Is it possible that I now associate Paul Pierce with more Knicks pain than even Jordan-Pippen? It’s probably just time passing, but I swear it’s PIERCE who feels like the Great Satan of Knicks basketball.

  160. johnlocke

    Umm…he’s a 2nd year player that has started less than 20 games against one of the best defensive teams and arguably best defensive pt guard in the game…. he will get better. Just thank the heavens Bibby and Toney D aren’t running the team

    Juany8:
    Damn again Lin is young so I’m hoping he can continue improving, but now that he’s become a big story opposing point guards are destroying him. He doesn’t have very good vision either, he forced a ridiculous amount of shots in this game when he could have at least reset or passed out. It’s disconcerting that this is his second game against an elite defense where he’s just a crappy player.

  161. ess-dog

    BT.Knicks:
    That Pierce 3 was nutz. had no business going in.

    the officiating decided this game. no doubt about it…

    and the team overshot the Energy meter… they underperformed in the 1st half against the Cavs and overshot today… they need a middle ground.Half of those turn-overs happened in the same 12 minute period where we were going in overdrive…

    I agree somewhat about the refs, but you have to win decisively in Boston to get the W, that’s just the way it is. Both Chandler and Amare were missing chippies this game. We could’ve easily won this one. Oh well.

  162. johnlocke

    Jordan did it in the playoffs against championship caliber teams…Paul Pierce abuses us mostly in the regular season.

    Kikuchiyo:
    Is it possible that I now associate Paul Pierce with more Knicks pain than even Jordan-Pippen? It’s probably just time passing, but I swear it’s PIERCE who feels like the Great Satan of Knicks basketball.

  163. GoKnicksGo

    People care more about proving their point on this board, then actually rooting for the team…

  164. d-mar

    Because our record is mediocre, we need every win we can get, and catching Philly is going to be very tough. But don’t take too much from this game, we’ve played Boston 3 times, and the home team has one a nail biter in every one.

  165. jon abbey

    johnlocke:
    Umm…he’s a 2nd year player that has started less than 20 games against one of the best defensive teams and arguably best defensive pt guard in the game…. he will get better. Just thank the heavens Bibby and Toney D aren’t running the team

    ok, but he does seem to be getting worse. let’s hope that Thomas B’s Cinderella comment isn’t too accurate, he looked really out of his league today.

  166. A Voice of Reason

    Few points on the game..

    Terrible Defense by the boys today. The incessant switching has to stop if we are to beat a team with a smart coach.

    Doc Rivers is a really good coach. Crazy that MDA gets as much, or more than he does.

    Paul Pierce owns the refs. He has mastered the art of selling a foul. He’s Divac+Ginobli+D Rose

    Melo has completely lost the respect he’s gotten historically from the refs. He gets no calls on his drives to the basket.

    Amare shrank in crunch time, again. I dont wanna hear the Melo hero ball crap either. He and Lin damn near brought home the victory before PP’s Sunday prayer. Amare needs to assert himself in the paint and call for the damn ball. Even Gasol calls for the ball.

    Baron and Lin need to calm down, because we wont beat anyone worth watching with that many turnovers. The type of turnovers too, run killing, momentum draining turnovers.

    JR needs to assert himself. Novak is deadly until he moves his feet.

    We will be ok tho, I’m optimistic that BD and Lin wont continue to be this terrible with the ball.

    GO KNICKS

  167. BT.Knicks

    the positives:

    There was a LOT of well-placed trust in Melo and Stat in the final minutes. The team needs to trust those guys if its going to win.

    Lin did not fold despite a bad first half. His heroics in the last period, he put up 6 of the most important points of his life without flinching.

    B.Diddy was solid and played 20 minutes. yeah, TOs, but he also put up his first real shots as a Knick.

    Chandler was not injured that game… that would have been worst than a blow-out loss this game.

    The Team played as a team – chemistry was there… time is on our side I think.

    There is plenty of silver lining to this loss in my humble and inexpert opinion (inexpert is a new word).

    People who want to shoot Fields will have more ammo, but I don’t think this was a fatal showing on his part. He’s still very young and has a lot of good mileage ahead of him.

  168. GoKnicksGo

    People were saying Melo sucks after he came back from injury, and he comes up with big bucket after bucket in overtime. Lin played a bad first half then he comes up big in regulation and you say it was a fluke? How is making a shot a fluke. My god what a bunch of fairweather fans.

  169. JR Sec 112

    Out of his league? Thats a big stretch. The Celtics are one of the best (the best?) defensive rotation teams in the league. That might have had something to do with it. played better in 2H – only had 1 turnover I think. not a great game, but not exactly a disaster.

  170. EB

    Liked the game Melo played, good off the ball. Shump needs more minutes, so does novak. I’m beginning to think we need to start with a jeffries chandler frontcourt.

  171. GoKnicksGo

    No one person is responsible for loses just like no one person wins as a team. People need to stop with the hero complex. If you want to watch one person play go watch, golf, tennis or boxing.

  172. BT.Knicks

    agreed with both

    GoKnicksGo:
    People care more about proving their point on this board, then actually rooting for the team…

    d-mar:
    Because our record is mediocre, we need every win we can get, and catching Philly is going to be very tough. But don’t take too much from this game, we’ve played Boston 3 times, and the home team has one a nail biter in every one.

  173. johnlocke

    Co-sign…. JR needs to start shooting well before getting too assertive though

    A Voice of Reason:
    Few points on the game..

    Terrible Defense by the boys today. The incessant switching has to stop if we are to beat a team with a smart coach.

    Doc Rivers is a really good coach. Crazy that MDA gets as much, or more than he does.

    Paul Pierce owns the refs. He has mastered the art of selling a foul. He’s Divac+Ginobli+D Rose

    Melo has completely lost the respect he’s gotten historically from the refs. He gets no calls on his drives to the basket.

    Amare shrank in crunch time, again. I dont wanna hear the Melo hero ball crap either. He and Lin damn near brought home the victory before PP’s Sunday prayer. Amare needs to assert himself in the paint and call for the damn ball. Even Gasol calls for the ball.

    Baron and Lin need to calm down, because we wont beat anyone worth watching with that many turnovers. The type of turnovers too, run killing, momentum draining turnovers.

    JR needs to assert himself. Novak is deadly until he moves his feet.

    We will be ok tho, I’m optimistic that BD and Lin wont continue to be this terrible with the ball.

    GO KNICKS

  174. ruruland

    JR Sec 112: Out of his league? Thats a big stretch. The Celtics are one of the best (the best?) defensive rotation teams in the league. That might have had something to do with it. played better in 2H – only had 1 turnover I think. not a great game, but not exactly a disaster.

    That was the Celtics of the last 4 years. When all of their pieces are going like that they’re nearly imppisble to beat. Defensively they were amazing.

  175. NattyIce

    Gamecockerbocker:
    Apparently the officials no longer like Linsanity. Two drives with some contact two no calls

    Seriously! They call a T on Shumpert for what? Screaming??!? That was ridic, and then yah, JLin, drives twice to the lane, gets heavy contact and no-call? WTF. Oh and Rondo’s offensive rebound in OT with about 2 mins left, he straight up two hand shoved JLin to get that . . . .

    When Pierce and Rondo are on like that, sure, it’s hard to say they didn’t deserve the win, but, the refs sure helped.

  176. EB

    ruruland: That was the Celtics of the last 4 years. When all of their pieces are going like that they’re nearly imppisble to beat. Defensively they were amazing.

    I respectfully disagree, you usually make the better points on this board but I think we threw this one away with sloppy play going into the half.

  177. JR Sec 112

    and yet, they still had to have their big 4 out there over 40 min, needed Pierce to shoot the ball better than he has all season, and had to go to OT at home. Thinking about this game vs. playoff series last year – its night a day. Actually a lot of positives today.

  178. Degree_Absolute

    Granted the Knicks were switching a lot, but Hubie Brown needs to understand that Shumpert on Pierce is the match up the Knicks wanted. Probably better to point out Lin on Pierce or Shumpert on Wilcox, than Shumpert on Pierce. He did it at least three times.

  179. EB

    JR Sec 112: and yet, they still had to have their big 4 out there over 40 min, needed Pierce to shoot the ball better than he has all season, and had to go to OT at home. Thinking about this game vs. playoff series last year – its night a day. Actually a lot of positives today.

    Thats a good point I think were all just frustrated. Play looked really sloppy and we maybe simple mistakes. Chandler dropped the ball twice, amare missed some dunks, the horrible full court passes.

  180. formido

    Baron Davis played too many minutes. Lin has +14 point differential per 100 possessions. When he came in in the 4th, the Knicks ALMOST pulled it out. I will never get bored of the silly people who continue to fail to see the forest for the trees by focusing on individual bad plays.

    Note that almost all of those 6 TOs that the media, (and complicit “fans”) are whining about were excellent decisions and could have been converted by the receivers with a little more concentration and skill. There’s a good reason the Knicks were a high turnover team before Lin came aboard.

    Lin got “destroyed” by Rondo? Do people even understand what they’re watching when they watch the team game of basketball? Lin was continually picked off the ball. His teammates were continually put into matchup nightmares by the Knicks’ defensive switching, giving Rondo easy assists. When Rondo DID go at Lin one on one, driving to the basket, Lin continually shifted his driving angle to make him miss numerous layups.

    When Lin has put up great numbers against Deron Williams or John Wall, no one claimed he “destroyed” them, because that’s absurd.

    Aggregate numbers don’t lie. When Lin is in, the Knicks have a chance to win. When he’s out, the Knicks are an 8-15 team. Only in New York could the player that literally saved the season already be taken for granted and held to an unimaginably high standard.

    You can’t win them all. When I read comments like “we are entering the no excuses” phase of the season, I just shake my head. Seriously. It’s like you don’t follow basketball. It’s like you’ve never played it. The Knicks are NOT CLOSE to being well oiled machine. It will be weeks or months from now. They will get there though. As long as Baron Davis doesn’t steal too many of Lin’s minutes.

  181. ruruland

    EB: I respectfully disagree, you usually make the better points on this board but I think we threw this one away with sloppy play going into the half.

    That’s how good this team is or is going to be.

    They should have had a 15 pt halftime lead.

    And the Celtics are a very difficult match-up for Woodson’s defense because of their mid-range shooting and ability to post-up and shoot over smaller players.

  182. johnlocke

    Shumpert on Pierce is not what we wanted — at least I hope it isn’t — Pierce’s best move is the fade away jumper and he’s three inches taller than Shumpert… we needed Melo on Pierce… in the clutch Pierce guarded Melo, but somehow Melo rarely guarded Pierce…including on the three he jumped over Shump to tie the game and send into OT

    Degree_Absolute:
    Granted the Knicks were switching a lot, but Hubie Brown needs to understand that Shumpert on Pierce is the match up the Knicks wanted.Probably better to point out Lin on Pierce or Shumpert on Wilcox, than Shumpert on Pierce.He did it at least three times.

  183. themark

    im surprised we kept up with rondo having those kind of numbers. He did outplay lin though…hope lin learns some things from this game.

  184. ruruland

    Degree_Absolute: Granted the Knicks were switching a lot, but Hubie Brown needs to understand that Shumpert on Pierce is the match up the Knicks wanted. Probably better to point out Lin on Pierce or Shumpert on Wilcox, than Shumpert on Pierce. He did it at least three times.

    Melo can guard Pierce 1-1 just fine. They should have started with Melo on Allen, get them out of their screen game. They set great screens.

  185. JR Sec 112

    its actually a testament to the quality of this team that despite sloppy play, poor calls, and missing some shots we should make, we were right there. Again, last year even in game 2 it was pretty clear the Knicks needed to ‘steal one’ to get a win vs. Cs. Now? We’re a much better team. Maybe not Miami or Chicago good, but on talent right behind. Cant wait for the Texas trip – get a better read on how close we are right now.

  186. BT.Knicks

    I think in the OT, our players simply did not look as hungry as they did in the last 5 minutes of the 4th. That final 3pter was a buzzkill and they simply did not fight for the board the same way they did at the end of the regulation. That is a mental thing.

    But overall – I agree more heart than one would have expected from the Knicks this year… and more heart from Melo and Stat than we could have hoped for even as of last game. I think we will spank them on April 17th at MSG… I’d say double digits. Our team will be a well-oiled machine in 2 to 3 weeks.

    Thank you all for your company. I enjoyed ‘watching’ this game with you all. See you all on Tuesday.

  187. ruruland

    johnlocke: Shumpert on Pierce is not what we wanted — at least I hope it isn’t — Pierce’s best move is the fade away jumper and he’s three inches taller than Shumpert… we needed Melo on Pierce… in the clutch Pierce guarded Melo, but somehow Melo rarely guarded Pierce…including on the three he jumped over Shump to tie the game and send into OT

    that’s why they should have Melo on Allen or Bass to begin with.

  188. KnicksFanInVA

    With Pierce hitting the game tying 3, I’m wondering what people on the board think of fouling on that play and putting the offensive player on the line for 2 shots? I always think that the D should be able to pull it out, but there are so many instances where teams give up the 3 and it ends up biting them in the ass.

  189. Degree_Absolute

    formido: As long as Baron Davis doesn’t steal too many of Lin’s minutes.

    Baron had a few bad turnovers today, but overall I don’t think he was the problem. He should pretend that Magic Johnson is watching everyone of his games and maybe that will make him play within himself like he did last game.

    I think we should have won this game. Novak’s disappearance in OT made no sense. We had no spacing at all.

  190. EB

    johnlocke: Shumpert on Pierce is not what we wanted — at least I hope it isn’t — Pierce’s best move is the fade away jumper and he’s three inches taller than Shumpert… we needed Melo on Pierce… in the clutch Pierce guarded Melo, but somehow Melo rarely guarded Pierce…including on the three he jumped over Shump to tie the game and send into OT

    Shump does have crazy long arms

  191. JR Sec 112

    Disagree though – Shump on Pierce was not what Cs wanted. They wanted Lin on Pierce. Shump was amazing today, btw. If he plays in control like that on offense he can be as valuable to the team as Chandler. Those 2 guys fill a ton of holes on D.

  192. GoKnicksGo

    As a team, there were just too many turnovers. Too many fancy passes. Baron had the same amount of TO’s as Lin, for those with selective memory, so both are guilty of errors. Boston basically read the Knicks offense if you noticed in the second half. Every time they would drive and kick out…with a Boston player waiting. The offense is still a work in progress…but considering that its only been a week. This was much better than what we had in Miami. As long as they are constantly improving…I don’t mind losses to a good team playing a good game. It wasn’t like Miami where we got outplayed, or against New Orleans where we had no reason loosing.

  193. JR Sec 112

    great point about fouling on the Cs last possession. Especially cause if i remember correctly Garnett had the ball at the top of the key for a while looking to pass. Should have just hacked him right there ESPECIALLY considering Cs had ZERO TIMEOUTS. have to hang that one on MDA.

  194. ruruland

    JR Sec 112: Disagree though – Shump on Pierce was not what Cs wanted. They wanted Lin on Pierce. Shump was amazing today, btw. If he plays in control like that on offense he can be as valuable to the team as Chandler. Those 2 guys fill a ton of holes on D.

    Shump will be starting in no time. his offense is so much better with a point guard, allows him to slash on 2s and run.

  195. nicos

    At least the Celtics schedule is as bad as ours this month. Got nothing from Fields and JR, a relatively poor game from Lin, and still should have won the game. Biggest problem defensively was obviously Rondo’s penetration- Knicks should have made a concerted effort to keep Shumpert on him rather than switching everything. Still Lin let Rondo go backdoor and also gave up a gift layup on an offensive rebound in overtime- he’s got to compete better than that on D. I’d have been fine with Novak subbing for either Amar’e or Chandler in overtime- the Celtics really packed the paint when Chandler was in the game, closing off all driving lanes, with Amar’e the spacing was much better but the defense suffered.

  196. johnlocke

    Or fight through the screen / double to get the ball out of Pierce’s hands or defend him with a 6’8 player at a minimum

    ruruland: that’s why they should have Melo on Allen or Bass to begin with.

  197. ruruland

    JR Sec 112: great point about fouling on the Cs last possession. Especially cause if i remember correctly Garnett had the ball at the top of the key for a while looking to pass. Should have just hacked him right there ESPECIALLY considering Cs had ZERO TIMEOUTS. have to hang that one on MDA.

    A contested 3 from that distance has a 10-15 % chance of dropping at most. Too many stupid things can happen when you’re trying to foul late in the clock.

  198. GoKnicksGo

    The Knicks have all the pieces…I’m more worried about D’antoni’s ability to adjust in game. A lot times, Boston was exploiting mismatches. In all honesty, there was just a gap in experience.

  199. ruruland

    johnlocke: Or fight through the screen / double to get the ball out of Pierce’s hands or defend him with a 6’8 player at a minimum

    I agree that there are games and certain opponents where fighting through screens is a much better opotion. That’s on the staff. Melo can fight through screens.

  200. JR Sec 112

    ruruland, if you foul KG with back to the basket inside the 3pt line and 10sec left in the game, I dont see a lot of risk. Cs had no TOs left as well. I would say %s in that situation better if you foul.

  201. Degree_Absolute

    I loved Shump’s stuff on Garnett. Despite the loss, at least you know that Garnett is still thinking about it. I hate that guy.

  202. ephus

    The technical on Shumpert was ridiculous — and costly. Reminds me of the T that Al Harrington got for rim hanging when Gus Johnson was yelling, “I am Al Harrington and I make buckets.”

  203. ruruland

    JR Sec 112: ruruland, if you foul KG with back to the basket inside the 3pt line and 10sec left in the game, I dont see a lot of risk. Cs had no TOs left as well. I would say %s in that situation better if you foul.

    I agree but that takes a really heady defensive player to do that. If there’s no directive from the coach, which their clearly wasn’t because I’m geussing they thought ball would stay on the perimeter, then it takes a guy a really smart play. Coach has to say foul or no foul. Coaches aren;t going to ask for fouls on any shots so it’s a real time judgement.

  204. johnlocke

    agreed…MDA doesn’t like doing that though for whatever reason…

    JR Sec 112:
    ruruland, if you foul KG with back to the basket inside the 3pt line and 10sec left in the game, I dont see a lot of risk.Cs had no TOs left as well.I would say %s in that situation better if you foul.

  205. Brian Cronin

    I think D’Antoni did okay. The only thing I would change is something I would frequently change with D’Antoni – he doesn’t reward Novak enough for good play. I mean, if they guy is having a mediocre game, of course, don’t play him. But when he is killing it, you have to reward the guy – especially since he has been consistently killing it as of late. The notion that you don’t play Novak in OT is just silly, especially when three-point shooting tends to be more important in overtime.

  206. ruruland

    Brian Cronin: I think D’Antoni did okay. The only thing I would change is something I would frequently change with D’Antoni – he doesn’t reward Novak enough for good play. I mean, if they guy is having a mediocre game, of course, don’t play him. But when he is killing it, you have to reward the guy – especially when he is consistently killing it. The notion that you don’t play Novak in OT is just silly, especially when three-point shooting tends to be more important in overtime.

    He was really getting abused defensively.

  207. jon abbey

    Brian Cronin:
    I think D’Antoni did okay. The only thing I would change is something I would frequently change with D’Antoni – he doesn’t reward Novak enough for good play. I mean, if they guy is having a mediocre game, of course, don’t play him. But when he is killing it, you have to reward the guy – especially since he has been consistently killing it as of late. The notion that you don’t play Novak in OT is just silly, especially when three-point shooting tends to be more important in overtime.

    another reason Fields needs to be dropped out of the rotation.

    sorry for saying this a billion times, but I’m going to keep doing it until D’Antoni does it or Fields proves me wrong.

  208. JR Sec 112

    I would point out though that Novak was getting killed on the boards (by Wilcox, etc) when he was in there. Also, who do you take out for him? Amare would be the only logical decision and yet probably needed Amare on boards and as another option in OT. So its a tougher call than it seems.

  209. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    Fields has proven you wrong throughout the season. Frank O. posted his shooting numbers, courtesy of Synergy, and you haven’t responded to them. You select the data you believe to be important (a few bad turnovers, missed layups, etc.) and you disregard the data that doesn’t fit the narrative you’ve chosen to construct. It’s not scientific. It’s horseshit.

  210. nicos

    One positive is Shumpert has been able to finish inside- I thought that reverse layup was just as impressive as the dunk. You have to wonder how much his knees had been bothering him prior to the all-star break- the fact that he got tendonitis in left knee after injuring the right makes you think the right knee wasn’t 100% after the injury. He definitely looks a lot more explosive than at any point during the season. If he continues to play like this and Fields continues to struggle from outside, you’d have to think he’ll wind up starting. That said, I think JR is probably the best fit with the starters when/if he gets his jumper going.

  211. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    JR Sec 112:
    I would point out though that Novak was getting killed on the boards (by Wilcox, etc) when he was in there.Also, who do you take out for him?Amare would be the only logical decision and yet probably needed Amare on boards and as another option in OT.So its a tougher call than it seems.

    With Chandler’s wrist woes, there’s no reason that Jordan should have been sent to the D-League.

  212. jon abbey

    The Honorable Cock Jowles:
    Fields has proven you wrong throughout the season. Frank O. posted his shooting numbers, courtesy of Synergy, and you haven’t responded to them. You select the data you believe to be important (a few bad turnovers, missed layups, etc.) and you disregard the data that doesn’t fit the narrative you’ve chosen to construct. It’s not scientific. It’s horseshit.

    second straight game with a full rotation, second straight game Fields was the worst Knick who played, second straight game Shumpert has been great.

    that is not only scientific, it’s factorial.

  213. jon abbey

    nicos:
    That said, I think JR is probably the best fit with the starters when/if he gets his jumper going.

    I think JR is still better off the bench, that’s what he’s been used to his whole career and is a role he’s previously thrived in.

  214. JR Sec 112

    Who else thinks maybe Baron should have played more in Q4 or OT? I think its interesting – the closing lineup for this team is going to be Chandler, Melo, Amare, Shumpert, and Lin. And yet, if BD is playing like he was today, given he’s a better defender than Lin, he might be the only guy I would switch in, depending on how Lin is playing.

  215. jon abbey

    Fields sat for the final 26 minutes today after that disaster to start the third, so hopefully D’Antoni is getting closer to sending him to Toney-land.

  216. jon abbey

    JR Sec 112:
    Who else thinks maybe Baron should have played more in Q4 or OT?I think its interesting – the closing lineup for this team is going to be Chandler, Melo, Amare, Shumpert, and Lin.And yet, if BD is playing like he was today, given he’s a better defender than Lin, he might be the only guy I would switch in, depending on how Lin is playing.

    not sure if his conditioning is there yet, he said after the last game that 15 minutes was plenty for then.

  217. nicos

    The Honorable Cock Jowles:
    Fields has proven you wrong throughout the season. Frank O. posted his shooting numbers, courtesy of Synergy, and you haven’t responded to them. You select the data you believe to be important (a few bad turnovers, missed layups, etc.) and you disregard the data that doesn’t fit the narrative you’ve chosen to construct. It’s not scientific. It’s horseshit.

    His synergy defensive numbers are the worst on the team but I guess that doesn’t fit your narrative. Fields is shooting worse from beyond 15 feet than Shumpert is- he’s been terrible from outside. Yes, he’s been efficient driving the ball but that starting unit needs him to do something from outside to spread the floor. He’s been pretty good running the pnr from the wing when the ball gets swung to him on the weakside but he’s been useless out of the corner which is where you’d like him to be in this offense. He was terrible to start the second half in each of the last two games and deservedly got benched.

  218. jon abbey

    The Honorable Cock Jowles: With Chandler’s wrist woes, there’s no reason that Jordan should have been sent to the D-League.

    uh, to get some game action instead of sitting on the bench as the 13th or 14th guy? they have Jorts ahead of him also.

  219. ess-dog

    Brian Cronin:
    I think D’Antoni did okay. The only thing I would change is something I would frequently change with D’Antoni – he doesn’t reward Novak enough for good play. I mean, if they guy is having a mediocre game, of course, don’t play him. But when he is killing it, you have to reward the guy – especially since he has been consistently killing it as of late. The notion that you don’t play Novak in OT is just silly, especially when three-point shooting tends to be more important in overtime.

    I also think D’Antoni did pretty well. Novak had 27 minutes, which is a lot and you have to hedge with him because of his defense. I would reduce Stat’s minutes. He can’t play a whole game strongly right now. Use Jeffries for what he can bring defensively. And Landry played less that Shump and Smith so I’m fine with that.

    The Celtics just got hot from outside. And even though Rondo generally played amazing and found all the lanes, he still shot fairly bad, 7-20. Also, Lin should’ve gotten to the line more.

  220. Gamecockerbocker

    NattyIce: Seriously!They call a T on Shumpert for what?Screaming??!?That was ridic, and then yah, JLin, drives twice to the lane, gets heavy contact and no-call?WTF.Oh and Rondo’s offensive rebound in OT with about 2 mins left, he straight up two hand shoved JLin to get that . . . .

    When Pierce and Rondo are on like that, sure, it’s hard to say they didn’t deserve the win, but, the refs sure helped.

    If it wasn’t for that bogus T on Shump we win the game. That’s a fact, no?

  221. jon abbey

    Gamecockerbocker: If it wasn’t for that bogus T on Shump we win the game. That’s a fact, no?

    no, among other things, there were a couple of goaltending calls that went against Boston that were wrong.

  222. A Voice of Reason

    Abbey is right on with the Fields argument. He is obviously the fifth best guard we have, for what we need our guards to do…

  223. Z

    jon abbey: another reason Fields needs to be dropped out of the rotation.

    sorry for saying this a billion times, but I’m going to keep doing it until D’Antoni does it or Fields proves me wrong.

    Not sure what Fields needs to do to prove you wrong. He can’t undo his playoff performance from 2011, and you don’t even want to give him the chance to even if he could.

    Fields is a second year player who came out of nowhere to prove himself at the NBA level. He is a good player that can help a team win (as he has shown in a rather large body of work).

    That said, I really love Shump. I don’t think I’ve seen such a defensively gifted player on the Knicks in my life time (a long time now). Maybe Camby, but certainly not a perimeter player. I would much rather have shump defend Pierce on that shot than Carmelo. (And over Fields, too :)

  224. jon abbey

    Z: Not sure what Fields needs to do to prove you wrong. He can’t undo his playoff performance from 2011, and you don’t even want to give him the chance to even if he could.

    Fields is a second year player who came out of nowhere to prove himself at the NBA level. He is a good player that can help a team win (as he has shown in a rather large body of work).

    he can prove me wrong by showing that he deserves minutes on this version of the team, and I think he’s running out of chances. as I said above, we’ve had two games now with a full complement of guards, and he’s been easily the worst of the five in each game (although JR Smith didn’t do much today either).

    “Fields is a second year player who came out of nowhere to prove himself at the NBA level.”

    people are stuck on this part, plus he seems like a nice guy, I don’t care one bit about either of those things. I care about what seems to be best for this version of the Knicks, and to me, it’s obvious that Fields doesn’t deserve minutes anymore.

  225. ess-dog

    I also really like Fields as a player but at this point, I’d rather re-sign Novak than spend $ on Fields. Shump will eventually be the starter, JR is the perfect 6th man and Novak is clearly perfect as a spot shooter in this rotation.

    I’m curious how high of a draft pick we could get for Fields.

  226. A Voice of Reason

    I dont think that the faith in Fields is misplaced, but with the roster we have now, there is a guard that does everything better than he does, except maybe rebound position.
    Here is where (little) i believe Fields ranks among our 5 guards excluding TDDWTDMNDA (may never do again):

    Outside Shooting- 4
    Inside Shooting/Finishing- 4 until BD gets legs back
    Free Throw- someone has this stat, I’m sure
    On Ball Defense- 3
    Help Defense- 4
    Rebounding- 1
    Ball Handling- 5
    Passing- 5
    Creating Shots for Others- 5
    Running P&R- 4

  227. DRed

    jon abbey: another reason Fields needs to be dropped out of the rotation.

    sorry for saying this a billion times, but I’m going to keep doing it until D’Antoni does it or Fields proves me wrong.

    Every time Fields has a good game you ignore it, Jon. Your cherry picking is absurd.

  228. Juany8

    Until Landry Fields start hitting 3′s and playing average defense, he will never have that good a game for the Knicks. He adds nothing on either side of the ball for this team besides being able to drive at the basket once his man has left him to help with the main action and rebounding pretty well for his position (which doesn’t have a significant rebounding impact in general). I’m not sure what Landry Fields is doing well, other than refusing to take shots outside 10 ft to avoid lowering his percentages. The problem is, the team doesn’t want Fields passing up open 3′s, it wants a player who will take those open 3′s so that he has to be guarded out to the 3 point line.

  229. jon abbey

    DRed: Every time Fields has a good game you ignore it, Jon.Your cherry picking is absurd.

    that’s really not true, he had some good games post-Lin, but right now he’s clearly the third best SG and the 11th guy overall. all 10 guys ahead of him (including Jorts) are better fits for this team, and the two games since we had a full complement of players have just proven my point even further.

    if you want to play 11 guys, he could maybe get some minutes at backup SF, but there is absolutely no reason for him to play any backcourt minutes given the other four guards we have. why would you give those other four less than 96 minutes combined?

  230. jon abbey

    Juany8:
    Until Landry Fields start hitting 3?s and playing average defense, he will never have that good a game for the Knicks. He adds nothing on either side of the ball for this team besides being able to drive at the basket once his man has left him to help with the main action and rebounding pretty well for his position (which doesn’t have a significant rebounding impact in general). I’m not sure what Landry Fields is doing well, other than refusing to take shots outside 10 ft to avoid lowering his percentages. The problem is, the team doesn’t want Fields passing up open 3?s, it wants a player who will take those open 3?s so that he has to be guarded out to the 3 point line.

    EXACTLY. how is this not obvious to everyone?

  231. Z

    jon abbey:

    “Fields is a second year player who came out of nowhere to prove himself at the NBA level.”

    people are stuck on this part, plus he seems like a nice guy, I don’t care one bit about either of those things. I care about what seems to be best for this version of the Knicks, and to me, it’s obvious that Fields doesn’t deserve minutes anymore.

    Let’s just say, hypotheticall, that Fields had his first half second and his second half first last year (i.e. he struggled at first, then exceeded expectation at the end). Everything else (2011 playoffs and 2012 season thus far) remains the same. Would you be as down on his play, or would you be optimistic about his future?

    I think that Fields set the bar too high for himself in his first few months, and it has proven difficult for him to reach that level again. (Peter Principle at play?)

    I just hope Linisn’t following in his footsteps. It’s an exciting way to introduce yourself to NY, but probably not worth the backlash…

  232. jon abbey

    Z: Let’s just say, hypotheticall, that Fields had his first half second and his second half first last year (i.e. he struggled at first, then exceeded expectation at the end). Everything else (2011 playoffs and 2012 season thus far) remains the same. Would you be as down on his play, or would you be optimistic about his future?

    this sounds like Toney Douglas, he had a great second half last year, but people soured on him (rightfully) very quickly when he was dreadful this year.

    to answer your question, I’d be very slightly more optimistic as I think the intensity of play goes up as the season progresses (in a normal year, things kick into second gear after the Super Bowl), but his inability to hit 3s the last month or so would have me 98 percent as down on him as I am now.

  233. Owen

    Tough loss. Lin performed about as I expected. It’s incredible how he just launches himself towards the basket with basically just the hope that he can figure out what to do on the fly. Not an easy thing to do against KG and a pretty stout defense.

    Pretty amazing sequence though with the steal, layup, and three.

    I don’t know what the numbers are, can’t find player pair data anywhere anymore, but it seems to me that Melo is like kryptonite for Fields.

    Novak has to get more pt if he is going to shoot like this.

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