I do agree with you, though, re: exposure. The most negatively rated athletes are the ones with the highest exposure, I guess. I’ve actually (get this) never heard of Chad Ochocinco (I hate football), so I’m not sure what he’s done or how he’s done it, but the others are all pretty much the most exposed athletes. I suppose it’s the flaw of the Q Rating, as cheaters and rapists should, realistically, rank behind hot-heads and prima donnas.

My argument has not been so much about LeBron as about guys backing up LeBron’s comments with harsher stances. I absolutely think that racism is a problem, I just don’t think it’s at the core of the LeBron issue.

Jalen Rose, in fact, is part of the media, not white, and spreading misinformation about white season ticket holders: they are racists who hate black people. He is just one dude, but in a perfect position to intelligently discuss the issue he made little rational sense and just basically called all white people racists…

I don’t know much about Q rating and have also never claimed that racism or a racial bias does not exist. My point is that if LeBron or anyone around him thinks race was a major factor here, they are delusional and missing the larger point.

Certainly the Q ratings are an unsettling trend. Two thing I would say:
-a disproportionate number of high profile athletes are black, so I would expect more to be on both this list and the All-NBA and All-Pro teams in the ultra popular and ultra high paying NFL and NBA. All 6 of the most “hated” athletes being black very well may go beyond this to racism and racial bias, but 3, 4, or even 5 might not.
-I’m not particularly surprised that no one cares about Mike Miller, he’s just not that great. Clemens and McGwire are retired, so that doesn’t really surprise me either… Sosa didn’t make the list, either, nor even did the hated Barry Bonds… because no one cares about them anymore. John Daly is fairly amusing and not in the news much for years, so he doesn’t surprise me at all. Roethlisberger does surprise me, and A-Rod a bit. I might say that both have strong fan bases from which to draw support, but you’d think Kobe does too. Then again, I “dislike” (in a sports star sense of disliking someone) Kobe and I don’t think it has anything to do with his race. Roethlisberger’s exclusion may carry racist undertones, but also sexist. Where does he rank? Vick doesn’t surprise me, since even though a lot of people are probably forgiving and forgetting there are a lot of really passionate animal owners and animal rights people. Tiger is as non-black and black. Owens and Ochocinco are pretty obnoxious, though I have to say I don’t care enough about either to actively dislike him and I actually kind of like Ochocinco.
So, that fact is pretty discomforting and I would definitely examine racial bias as a cause of the list, but there are some other factors at play. Certainly these are guys who have been at the top of their games or at least paid like it and treated like it. Maybe there is some racism at play in why I can’t think of many white counterparts, but it could also be that not many white athletes are as dominant/high profile. I can also think of both black and non-black athletes who are far more detestable than these guys, but they are not nearly as high profile. For everyone to hate you, they have to know you.

It would be interesting to look at the highest earning endorsement guys, and you might see a racial bias emerging with some white guys and/or that black guys are also earning the most. I mean Tim Lincecum is not selling as many shoes as LeBron.
In 2009, it appears only 2 of the top 10 earning US athletes were 100% white: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/more/specials/fortunate50/2009/ Golfers taking the top 2 spots, and outside Tiger there just aren’t too many American minorities on the tour. So you might even exclude Lefty and Tiger. Peyton Manning is the only white team athlete (Jeter obviously being half white) on the list and he came in #10. So, for the man who is making $28 mill annually in endorsements off his popularity to be pulling the race card is hard to swallow. People may not hate A-Rod as much, but advertisers still thought he was about 20% as marketable as LeBron in 2009. White people might love them some Peyton Manning, but he’s still less than 1/2 as marketable as Cleveland LeBron was.

Z: people apparently DO hate Chris Bosh for going to Miami. His negative rating rose from 21% to 35%. Wade’s rose too. So it can’t just be that people hate LeBron because he acted like a jerk. Part of it seems to be the decision itself– not just the sideshow surrounding it.

That’s not why I lost respect for LeBron, personally. I would not say this proves racism, though, and would actually say it sort of hurts the case for it. People are jealous and hate the anti-competitive nature of the move to form a free agent superpower (I am jealous, but don’t care too much about the move… though I would have rather they not made it). MJ and Magic have both come out against it, and both are black, rich, and power-brokers as far as I know. In terms of Mike Miller, how are Dampier, Z, Mario Chalmers, Udonis Haslem, Eddie House, or Joel Anthony’s Q ratings doing? Does the American public even know who Joel Anthony is? Even as an avid NBA fan I’ve completely forgotten about Mike Miller for stretches this offseason.

Ted Nelson: I just haven’t heard anything resembling a convincing argument that race is anything more than a backdrop.  

I don’t think LeBron painted it as anything more than a backdrop. The question was: “Do you think there’s a role that race plays in this?” To which he answered: “I think so, at times. It’s always, you know, a race factor.”

He’s taken hits for this answer, as if he was blaming his decline in popularity on white people unfairly turning against him. The fact is, he *didn’t* say that, and yet the (white-owned) media allows such misinformed interpretations of what he said to run rampant. In my eyes, that is where the racism argument gets fuel.

But even if the media is right– that LeBron did blame his decline in popularity on white people unfairly turning against him, such a statement wouldn’t be baseless. His negative Q score rose from 24% to 44% among non-blacks, but only rose from 14% to 15% among blacks. So, whether right or wrong, there is fodder for the argument that racism is more than just a backdrop in the “fall of LeBron James”.

“I would argue it is not racism, because I would argue a white, latino, or asian athlete would have been treated the same way for the same behavior. Tiger. A-Rod. Roger Clemens. Barry Bonds is hardly from the inner-city.”

I don’t know the flaws of the Q Ratings, but the six most unpopular athletes are: 1) Michael Vick, 2) Tiger Woods, 3) Terrell Owens, 4) Chad Ochocinco, 5) Kobe Bryant, 6) LeBron James. All these guys are black. A-Rod is behind them. So is Clemens. So is McGuire. So is Kyle Busch. So is John Daly. So is Ben Roethlisberger. Some of these guys are worse than mere “douches”, yet LeBron has a more negative perception by the general American public.

“No one hates Chris Bosh for going to Miami. He’s not as big a star as LeBron, but he also did it in a more humble way and announced his decision along with his new teammate.”

In keeping with the Q Rating as a statistical measure for “hate”, people apparently DO hate Chris Bosh for going to Miami. His negative rating rose from 21% to 35%. Wade’s rose too. So it can’t just be that people hate LeBron because he acted like a jerk. Part of it seems to be the decision itself– not just the sideshow surrounding it.

And, possibly, some of it could be race. Mike Miller’s Q rating hasn’t been effected at all!

The only compelling argument I’ve heard from Jalen Rose or Z is: they’re white and he’s black. Which, of course, is not a compelling argument at all. The only other arguments are Jalen’s ranting about how LeBron wants to win (which as far as I can tell is a race neutral thing) and Z’s analogy to one particular movie about a white non-athlete. I absolutely agree that racism is a problem and I am open to an argument that race is a big factor here, but I just haven’t heard anything resembling a convincing argument that race is anything more than a backdrop.

Z: LeBron, on the other hand, really hasn’t done anything publicly for people to believe he is a bad human being. He broke convention and announced his free agency decision on TV. Why? Because there was unprecedented hubbub around it, so he could.

I think you’re missing a lot of the details here. I absolutely don’t think LeBron has shown he’s a terrible person or anything, but it was more than just “breaking convention…” He acted like a total prick. He apparently will not admit that, but I think we should since it’s the #1 problem. Not what he did, but how he went about doing it. No one hates Chris Bosh for going to Miami. He’s not as big a star as LeBron, but he also did it in a more humble way and announced his decision along with his new teammate . LeBron would have taken the “leaving his hometown” flack and the “he can’t win one by himself” flack no matter what (and no matter what race he was… he’s taken over the spot owned by Art Modell a white dude in Clevelander’s hearts and other non-champs take flack no matter their race or upbringing), but he invited the “he’s a giant d-bag” flack on himself. That’s the only one I personally really care about, because I actually sort of like the Big 3′s decision to put their money where their mouths are and put winning ahead of money and personal glory. By not announcing it with his teammates and acting like an arrogant tool throughout the process… that’s the way LeBron lost a lot of my respect for him.

Z: I think there is a double standard.

People don’t relate to businesspeople the same way they do athletes. People might love facebook, but I still doubt they feel nearly the connection to its owner that even a casual NBA fan feels to LeBron or even to some obscure athlete.

Z: Is it racism? It can certainly be argued.

I would argue it is not racism, because I would argue a white, latino, or asian athlete would have been treated the same way for the same behavior. Tiger. A-Rod. Roger Clemens. Barry Bonds is hardly from the inner-city.

Z: if people can relate to you, they can sympathize. It’s hard for the average American to relate to the billionaire athlete from the inner-city.

My point about relating to someone was about movies and stories… it’s natural to relate to a story’s protagonist and we are trained to do it throughout our lives, LeBron on the other hand set himself up as the villain.

First, I think your feeling for the general reaction to Zuckerberg (at least before the movie, which I don’t really intend to see anytime soon) are incorrect. He took plenty of heat for being a jerk, despite the fact that before this movie no one knew hardly anything about him (and depending on how realistic the movie is, they still might not). Yes, he’s a wild success story that everyone wishes they could emulate. Same with LeBron, though. He doesn’t have ads on national TV featuring him because people all hate him.
Second, it is a totally different circumstance. One is a movie character who played on a computer and was a jerk in his dormroom and later boardroom, and one is among the most recognizable faces in America who is a jerk in the public eye. If someone made a movie of LeBron James’ life, depicting him as a rags to riches protagonist with an historically great work ethic and other worldy athleticism who lifted up a hurting all-American rust belt city for 7 years before going on to win titles and make history… people would go and people would relate to him. Saying that a white person can’t relate to a black person is, in my opinion, racist.
Finally, there are plenty of black people and people from the inner city of various races who don’t like LeBron. I live outside Cleveland, and I have seen suburban white kids with LeBron Heat jerseys. Race is not nearly as big an issue here as even LeBron made it out to be with his answer to the question or certainly as others have made it out to be.

Again, I have specifically listed examples of athletes who are not from the inner city, and are still hated. Same goes for white public figures in other areas, say politics. Say an actor like Mel Gibson who acts like a total nut-job. Even reality TV stars. I really think the racism thing is an excuse from LeBron that he can be a total jerk-off and still be the victim. I’m sure that will motivate him personally, but from an outside perspective it is irrational. If an athlete of a different race were to have done the same things in the same way… he would get a very similar or identical reaction. That means it is not, at its core, a problem of race.

LeBron’s people messed this one up by not realizing his personality was best kept behind closed doors besides for well scripted, totally positive situations. The way other egomaniacal stars and other public figures are often handled. How in the world was this “Decision” going to be a PR hit? There was no way: He’s leaving his hometown team. He’s leaving the only team he’s played for. He’s got the hopes of people in the three biggest media markets in the country… the three most populous cities in the country… sky high. He holds the event right outside of the biggest media market in the country (probably world), where people think he might be going. He’s having a TV special that is all about him. His two new teammates have already announced that they will be playing together and done so, you know, together as teammates (which is my big problem with LeBron… should have done it with his teammates instead of sticking out like a lightning rod). He makes the announcement in a total douchebag way: “I’m taking my talents to South Beach…” with a cocky little smile that made you want to punch the guy. There was no way he could come out of that looking like anything but the villain no matter what race he was, and if he and his people didn’t realize that going into it… they’re stupid. It’s almost as if they wanted him to be the villain, or were totally out of touch with reality and though people would be happy he was going to the Heat. Sure, he raised money for charity which is a commendable thing. He could have done so in a different way, though, or made the special itself more about kids or LeBron’s efforts to help kids… and not all about LeBron and his decision to go to the 42nd biggest city in the country with a population under 500,000. He alienated millions upon millions in the largest media markets and the rust belt while making happy a few hundred thousand in a city that hardly cares about basketball. If his people didn’t see this coming, he should fire them. Perhaps they did, though, and he just didn’t believe them or wouldn’t be convinced. Who knows. Maybe he knew it was coming and just figured he’d invite in the full storm. Maybe he wants to be the villain.

amare is a proven quantity and we got the best big man available this summer.

AR has great tools: reminds me of Lamar Odom; great talent, not mentally strong enough to lead but a great follower

Gallo is a complete player and that will show

mozgov is really raw but he can play, better than turiaf.

the question mark are the guards…the frontline is capable of second turn of PO (given the right matchup) but the outcome of the season stands on the little men’s shoulders

latke: Re: zuckerberg and LBJ.I think this is an apt comparison, and while it sounds like you observed people in the theater giving him props for his behavior, he has taken a lot of heat for being arrogant and naive.  

I actually don’t think it is an apt comparison (even though I brought it up), which is basically my point. Zuckerberg (the character) really IS a bad person (and Zuckerberg the person hasn’t sued Aaron Sorkin for libel yet). He had one friend in the entire world– the one person who could tolerate him for more than 10 seconds– and he screwed him over, only to serve his own megalomaniacal ways. There is nothing ambiguous about his behavior. He was detestable.

LeBron, on the other hand, really hasn’t done anything publicly for people to believe he is a bad human being. He broke convention and announced his free agency decision on TV. Why? Because there was unprecedented hubbub around it, so he could.

I think there is a double standard. Is it racism? It can certainly be argued. What I think it probably comes down to is what Ted said: if people can relate to you, they can sympathize. It’s hard for the average American to relate to the billionaire athlete from the inner-city. They, themselves, are neither rich, good at athletics, nor from the inner-city. On the other hand they CAN relate to the middle-class white guy that got wedgies in school but grew up to conquer the world…

rama: Dee, why are you worried about Rooster’s 3s?Anytime a guy gets 24 points off 14 shots, he’s doing fine.

Rooster’s a good shooter..but 11 three’s worry me because I think he’s too talented to fall into Starksdom. What’s Starksdom u ask? When a player who has talent with the ball in their hand camps out around the 3 point line and launches more 3′s than 2′s (94 Finals game 7 anyone?). 11 of Roosters 14 shots were from 3!! 5 for 11′s nice…but 4 for 8 is better-IF there’s some 2′s attempted with some FT’s. Rooster got away with it becuz he did connect on 50+ % and he did get 5 FT’s. But how often did we see him just become a mad bomber last season? His line was great…don’t get me wrong. I just don’t wanna see him shoot mostly 3′s with his talent. Maybe i’m bein picky but I jus got great expectations for the kid.