By the way, I was playing around with ESPN’s slot machine game – and boy, how silly. Lebron ends up on the Nets more often than he does on the Knicks, which is way too silly. And when Lebron does end up as a Knick, it’s usually by himself. Oh well, I suppose you can’t expect a little slot machine game to be realistic.

Good points. It’s not that I don’t give D’Antoni any credit. I just try to put it into perspective. He was given THE perfect roster for his system… I mean can you think of any NBA roster in the last decade or two that would have been better for D’Antoni? His system worked great with one particular core group, but has never worked any other time on this side of the Atlantic. Journeyman coach Alvin Gentry doing every bit as well with a similarly talented Suns team as D’Antoni ever did also makes him look bad. I’m not trying to be negative about D’Antoni. He obviously has his positives too and I would call him a good NBA coach overall. I’m just saying that I don’t think he’s done enough to establish his greatness yet and I wouldn’t take the magic of his system too far, as the knicks have spent two years proving. The talent is what drives the system on both sides of the ball. Ignoring interior defense is going to make thing a bit of an uphill battle. All I would say is that Bosh probably gives up 20 lbs to Amare and Danilo is not yet Shawn Marion… I believe D’Antoni himself even would at least want a strong defensive.3rd big if that’s his frontcourt.

@massive,

I largely agree that D’Antoni doesn’t ignore defense, though he doesn’t seem to stress it as much as other coaches either. That’s why I’ve been arguing he’s not going to go ape shit about a Bosh/Danilo frontcourt without some serious defensive reinforcement.

It’s also about perception, though, and LeBron is on record taking a shot at D’Antoni’s lack of attention to D could be a problem.

I agree with most of your points. I’m going to wait for D’Antoni to prove it to me before I assume he’ll figure it out.

At this point, both Walsh and D’Antoni should know the value of defense. What I want to see is how D’Antoni adjusts his system, because it seems inevitable now. This year is the “hot seat” year with high-expectations. I want to see Walsh string something together and get a high energy big who plays defense, and get some real defenders more the vet. min like Matt Barnes and Raja Bell. Then any combination of Johnson/Wade/ and Stoudemire/Bosh/Lee would work best because you have guys who are willing to score, run, and defend all around them. A Douglas/Wade/Gallo/Bosh/Biedrins starting line-up with Chandler, Walker, Barnes, Bell, two draft picks and maybe Ben Wallace creates a really talented team that could win 55+ games next season. Maybe Johnson and Lee together won’t accomplish this feat, but its possible.

My point is you shouldn’t worry about D’Antoni because of what he did with no talent. Of course sticking to Duhon last year was at least questionable, but this year everybody’s hoping we don’t have to worry about the players. I’m sure D’Antoni will make it work. Walsh did say something like D’Antoni is as good a defensive coach he’s been around and compared him to Dean Smith. Now I doubt all of this, but he seems to be confident in D’Antoni’s defense.

He and most here should know I am a pretty big fan of D’Antoni BUT I agree 100% with Ted in regards to the fact that Walsh is not married to him and worships at his altar and will fire him in a second if he feels it would be necessary to do so. Walsh is the boss and runs the Knicks not D’Antoni. He is very respectful towards him and defends him to the press because Walsh is smart and good at his job but again he is the boss and is the one making the decisions even though Im sure he obviously asks D’Antoni for his input.

Also saw this today on ESPNNY.com on the Knicks blog about D’Antoni’s Suns teams defense. As has been mentioned before they were not horrible at all but were just average at best although if you have the best offense in the league and an average defense you will win alot of games. Here is the link in case someone wants to check it out: http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/knicks/post/_/id/75/defending-dantonis-d

I guess it comes down to some semantics, but I still think Walsh is looking for talent. LeBron, Bosh, Wade, Dirk… these are guys that are going to fit into any system. Guys who shoot the 3 are valuable in any system. Long athletes who can play are valuable in any system. I just don’t see many examples of a guy who is valuable in D’Antoni’s system and not just generally valuable. Shawn Marion seems like one possible example, but you don’t see too many Shawn Marion clones out there. (Look, for example, at Boris Diaw. He was supposed to be some special D’Antoni guy, but he’s played just as well for Larry Brown who some would consider about as far from D’Antoni strategically as you can get in today’s NBA. Raja Bell was similar to Bruce Bowen who was valuable to the Spurs. Nash, KT, Amare, Joe Johnson, Barbosa… all valuable outside D’Antoni’s system. Alvin Gentry has found a way to make the WCFs with Robin Lopez and Amare playing together… something we all seem to question whether D’Antoni would even consider.) My fear is that “the system” may be more exclusive than inclusive. I’ve said many times before that if you need Nash, Amare, Marion, etc., etc. to be a great coach… you’re not a great coach. You’ve got to adapt at least a bit to a new situation.

My disagreements with you aren’t over actual moves made, but interpretations of the power structure of the Knicks and strategy. I trust Donnie Walsh to do the right thing if D’Antoni’s magical system gets in the way of building a good team… maybe I’m wrong but that’s my interpretation. So far results are a bit mixed.

Some coaches don’t have much of a say about the players, but when D’Antoni came here it was with the understanding that he plays a specific style of basketball. Walsh bought into that system and has already stated numerous times that he evaluates players on both a talent level and whether they will fit into the system (numerous times).

In this case that’s probably especially true because the Knicks plan right from the beginning was to start with what was essentially a clean slate anyway.

I think they work as a team trying to identify talented players that will fit.

If you have a dispute with any of that or any of the players they used, signed, or eventually sign it’s not a disagreement with me. It’s a disagreement with Walsh and D’Antoni.

#8

@7

He did make a mistake, though. Duhon couldn’t run his system and was outplayed on the season by Robinson, Douglas, and even Hughes (defense). If the Knicks weren’t tanking the season I think he gets fired. Sticking with Duhon all season and not playing 2 bigmen may have cost the Knicks 10 victories. That’s off the top of my head, but I really believe it. The way Hill played in Houston makes D’Antoni look bad.

Duhon was a questionable signing in the first place: slow, walk it up, physical PG… not a running playmaking type. His hot shooting saved him in year 1, but it was a questionable signing all along. And that was one D’Antoni apparently championed. Most coaches make terrible personnel decisions and don’t actually know which players are going to fit their system. They have a limited eye for talent.

“THat’s why I said in the previous thread that most coaches have their system in mind when they trade for, draft, and sign players.”

I disagree. Most coaches have little say over personnel. If they can’t deal with the players on the roster, they get fired. Many more teams change their coaches for their players than vice versa. The average coaching stint lasts, what, 2 or 3 seasons? If the Knicks weren’t looking at 2010 the last two season, D’Antoni would be shown the door right about now.

@9

Blair could be an undersized 5 for D’Antoni. He could have had a good rookie season and then been traded either mid-season or now. I’m fine with Douglas, but if the Knicks had taken some scrub like Wayne Ellington or Jermaine Taylor I would be really pissed they passed on Blair because of “fit” and “projectability.” That late in the draft you’re just trying to get NBA talent. Blair and Budinger obviously had NBA talent, so any teams that passed on those guys for scrubs should be kicking themselves.

But then he presumably would have had to trade Lawson to Houston in the McGrady trade to free up the cap space to get the second max FA, that is, if Houston would have accepted Lawson rather than Jordan Hill.