“I would take it further than just $. If Lee is your #3 or #4 guy, he can rebound, pass, and score efficiently without having plays called for him. If Amare is your #3 or 4 scoring option, what else is he doing out there? Nothing. He’s a straight scorer.”

The point I was making is that many people feel that Amare and Bosh are clearly legitimate #2 scoring options on a championship caliber team with either Lebron or Wade, but feel that Lee may not be. So if you spend a lot of money on Lee and he’s your theoretical 3rd option, you still need a #2.

Point being that even if Lee is the better “value” at the salaries because of the other things he does as well or better, strategically it might not be the correct move to sign him and start searching for a legit #2 you can add at a later date because it could be difficult to find that player and make the salaries work.

I suppose the internal debate at the Knicks (and ultimately with Lebron) will be can Lee be the #2 guy and can you afford to pay a #3 what Lee will command (even if he’s a good value) and still make eveything work.

Amare is a great scorer. Overall one of the best in the NBA if not the best. For a team like the Knicks without another top scorer, I might take Amare over Lee. Bosh has been as good a scorer as Amare this season and carried good/very good offenses on his back multiple times in an NBA season. It becomes a little tougher there, and it might come down to what you think about them both defensively. Bosh is a better rebounder and playmaker than Amare, but probably more likely not to repeat his 09-10 scoring.

The two big question marks with Amare, besides doing little outside of scoring most nights, are #1 What can he do without Steve Nash passing him the ball? and #2 How will he age if he loses some athleticism? (He’ll be 28 next season so a 6 year deal wouldn’t end till he’s 33.)

@59

I would take it further than just $. If Lee is your #3 or #4 guy, he can rebound, pass, and score efficiently without having plays called for him. If Amare is your #3 or 4 scoring option, what else is he doing out there? Nothing. He’s a straight scorer.

“In most cases I would WAY rather have Lee for 10.5m-13m than Bosh at the max, but if James comes and we only have room for one other big contract right now, I’d rather take Bosh than Lee + an extra few million to get a role player.”

The difference between $13 mill and the max does not cost you a role player, at least not if you’re a team willing to go into the luxury tax. Clearly the Knicks are. Every season you’re capped out you have the MLE (at least under this CBA). At $7 mill per, you’re losing less than that by signing a max guy instead of a $13 million guy. Knicks might lose out on a $3-7 mill player in year 1, but they can turn around and sign someone for the MLE in 2011.

“Of course if we can convince Lebron to come with Lee instead of Bosh and be patient, then we could use the savings + Curry’s contract to bring in another high level player later on.”

Possible.

“re Oden: I think the best hope for Oden at this point is to have a resurgence like McDyess after he left the Knicks. He got healthy and was a solid role player with an occassional exceptional game, but not an All-Star. I would love to see him prove me wrong and have a HOF career, but I’m overly skeptical at this point.”

Big difference there is that McDyess was 30 when he got healthy in Detroit. Oden will be 23 next season. McDyess was also someone who rellied a lot on his athleticism to become a star in the first place. He was largely an inefficient scorer and mediocre rebounder. He mostly scored a lot of points on bad teams (except his one season in Phoenix, which is still his career year… having both Jason Kidd AND Steve Nash on the team might have helped his scoring efficiency a bit to what is his career high for a full season…). Oden’s game is about size, defense, rebounding, and efficient scoring close to the basket. He was never going to win many foot races or agility drills, I don’t think.

“There are some rumors being floated that Philly is looking to trade the #2, but the price is taking Brand as well.”

Problem is that this would have to happen BEFORE free agency. If the Knicks are skeptical of their chances of getting LeBron and love someone #2, maybe it makes sense. To spend all this energy going for LeBron and then pull out at the last minute… would be a PR nightmare. If the Sixers take back Curry, maybe. If the Sixers somehow took nothing but Curry for Brand/#2 the Knicks could offer LeBron a core of LeBron-Lee-Gallo-Cousins/Turner/Favors… I don’t know if an unproven rookie is going to convince LeBron to come though…

“I would think the price for extracting the #2 pick from Philly would be too high. Three years of a max-contract, badly declining Elton Brand… No thanks.”

If this weren’t the greatest FA year ever, I may disagree. You are basically paying Brand + #2 a combined $23 million. If Turner or Cousins or Favors or Johnson is a legitmate max $ player, think of it as paying him max $ and Brand the $5 mill per #2 contract. If the #2 pick is a bust… you’re an Isiah level idiot for making that deal even before considering the LeBron ramifications…

“I do like the idea of Okafor, who is durable and consistent”

I feel like Okafor is badly overmatched at C. He had a mediocre year in NO, not worth his contract. Then again, a healthy Chris Paul might help Okafor’s offense tremendously. His defense at C appeared to be below average, though. He’s been very durable for 3 seasons, but his first 3 seasons he missed a ton of time. He’s also 28 already next season, which isn’t old but also isn’t young.

“Furthermore, although Biedrins if 4 years younger than Emeka, he has apparently had more trouble staying healthy. In only 2 of his 6 seasons has he been able to log more than 2000 minutes. Emeka in comparison has logged over 2300 minutes in 5 of his 6 seasons.”

I don’t know anything about Biedrins health, so it may be a problem. Fouls also limit his minutes when he is healthy. I don’t think it’s obvious you take Biedrins over Okafor, but I don’t think it’s as obvious in the other direction as conventional wisdom perscribes.

“Douglas, James, Gallo, Brand, Cousins would be a tough team. You could then sign Lee over the cap I believe and start him and bring Brand off the bench.”

You’d have to renounce Lee to take back Brand, #2, and sign LeBron. Not even sure the Knicks could take back Brand and #2 (Thabeet made just shy of $5 mill this season) and still sign LeBron. Also not sure LeBron signs hoping that an unproven rookie makes it.

I think the Sixers might get other offers for #2. Capped out teams can also compete with the Curry offer. They cannot compete with a straight up immediate salary dump, though.

“Evan Turner can play 4 positions and is going to be big in this league. Brand didn’t start to stink until Philly”

Kwame Brown was going to be big in this league, too. Eddy Curry is big in this league, but in the wrong sense of the word… Being a top 5 pick is a guarantee of nothing. I like Turner and Cousins and Favors all as prospects, but you have to realize that the opportunity cost of trading for one of them is likely a chance to sign LeBron.

“But in essence, we would only be giving up Eddy Curry’s deal.”

I doubt it. Again, capped out teams can make a play if the Knicks insist on including Curry. A rich capped out team with an expiring or a few reasonable contracts Philly would like can beat the Eddy Curry straigh-up offer. Even Eddy Curry for Brand/#2 would eat about $12 mill in cap space.

“Why would the 76ers be so eager to get under the cap?”

I don’t know, but that’s the rumor out there right now. They might be looking for more than cap space to do it. A young player or two perhaps. They may just be exploring their options. Their ownership/finance department may have told them cut $20 mill off of next year’s payroll. The rumor may be 100% false. No idea.

“I would say the Knicks’ best hope for him would be him being healthy all season, but coming off the bench for Marcus Camby.”

If he’s healthy all season I doubt Portland lets him go. Even if Camby is their #1 center all season, the guy is approaching 40 and would only have one more year on his deal at that point. They could try to make a big splash in free agency 2011, but the way he played early this season I don’t think Portland lets him go after a healthy season. Portland’s owner, Paul Allen, was Bill Gates’ partner starting microsoft and is one of the richest men in the world. Unless they want to make a play for Melo or another free agent(s) or a trade for Chris Paul, I don’t think money will be an issue in retaining Oden. They already overpaid Aldridge.

“I think Okafor would alleviate a lot of concerns that we have about the Knicks’ interior D! Agreed??”

I’m not a fan of Okafor at the 5. I would probably take Biedrins over him. Okafor has been overmatched this season in NO, and I think he was better off at the 4 in Charlotte. Okafor also has a bad back, makes significantly more money, and is 4 years older than Biedrins. It really comes down to which team, if either, wants to dump one.

“(did you know Rudy Gay is 6?9?? he could be a 4 under D’Antoni)”

I’m not sure that Gay is an improvement over Chandler. If they made the exact same amount of money, I’m not sure I’d take Gay over Chandler. And I’m not a huge Chandler fan…

” Hell, a lineup of Douglas, Childress/Brewer, Lebron, Gallo, Bosh could work just fine under D’Antoni as long as we get the foul calls. Not sure if we have the $$ for that lineup, but you get the idea.”

Until they run into a frontcourt like Boston’s or LA’s in the playoffs, yeah. They’d win 60 games and be unlikely to win a title, in my opinion.
Don’t think the Knicks could sign LeBron and Bosh and still have anything to go for Childress/Brewer. Could try to sign-and-trade Douglas, Chandler, AND Walker or something maybe to make salaries work after capped out.

“I think we put too much importance on height for a C. Dwight Howard isn’t exactly the tallest guy out there, but he is the DPOY.”

In pre-game Howard stands next to Patrick Ewing and appears to be the same height to me.
I don’t think you should put too much emphasis on straight height, but interior talent is very valuable. To me if you have a PF at C and a SF at PF you’re going to be vulnerable in the more physical playoffs (compared to regular season), unless those two players are uniquely talented. Tyrus Thomas, for example, would be giving up 35-70+ pounds along with a few inches to the guy he’s guarding every night. That’s tough to overcome against the more talented bigs.

The Knicks can make a sign-and-trade with Cleveland without sending back any salary at all since they will be far enough under the cap. The Magic just sent a 2nd rounder or something to s&t for Lewis. If the Cavs know LeBron is gone they might take Wilson Chandler to at least have another wing player to compete with Parker and Moon for minutes. Douglas, Gallo, 2 2nd rounders this year, involving a 3rd team to take Curry’s expiring deal are all possibilities… No one wants to trade Gallo (probably including LeBron), but if that’s the only thing standing between the Knicks and a LeBron/Bosh core… doubt it’s an issue.

The Cavs are over 46 million in cap space if LeBron leaves. That’s with 9 players, so I believe there are 3 roster holds on top of that. At 47.5 mill I’m not sure Cleveland can offer a FA much more than the MLE, if anything.

It would be pretty marginally less than Bosh. something like 3-5 million over the first 5 years and then the Knicks could resign LeBron long-term as soon as he becomes eligible for an extension. With endorsements there’s little doubt LeBron could be taking home significantly more income than Bosh. He had little say in the matter, I suppose, but LeBron made 4.2 mill less than Shaq this season… I assume that the answer is yes, LeBron would play for marginally less than Bosh (or Wade) if he surveys his options and decides that playing in NYC with Bosh is his favorite option.

The “story” goes that the Knicks can sign and trade Lee to the Raptors and they would be willing to sign and trade Bosh to the Knicks. That way Bosh gets an extra year and the extra money he wants and the Raps get a very good player in return. I can buy that much as a possibility.

However, doesn’t that leave Bosh making more money than James unless we also do a sign and trade with the Cavs?

What can we offer to the Cavs that would prompt them to say yes to a sign and trade instead of simply accepting all the cap room to make independent moves later?

If the Cavs say no (which I think would be reasonable unless they actually get some kind of value back), would James be willing to play for less than Bosh?

We have no first round picks left unless you want to go out to 2014 (can’t trade 2013 because we traded 2012) and don’t have any other players we want to move other than perhaps Chandler.

IMO Amare is a better player than Lee. That becomes clearer if you discount the early part of the season when he was still adjusting to issues with his eyes and recovering his condition.

But the question remains is he better by enough to pay him the max when you can get Lee for a few million dollars less?

In my opinion (and I give this kind of thing endless thought) it depends whether Lee is going to be your second best player or third/fourth best player.

If you already have two studs, then I think you are usually better off taking the slightly inferior player for less money and getting good value (Lee). If you only have one stud, then I think you have to try to get a second one even if you have to overpay just a little because you need to get as much talent as you can get in the top couple of spots.

I think we face the same issue with Bosh.

In most cases I would WAY rather have Lee for 10.5m-13m than Bosh at the max, but if James comes and we only have room for one other big contract right now, I’d rather take Bosh than Lee + an extra few million to get a role player.

Of course if we can convince Lebron to come with Lee instead of Bosh and be patient, then we could use the savings + Curry’s contract to bring in another high level player later on. But that may be a lot to ask.

It seems to make much more sense to try to make it work with Brand for a year or two, then in year three of that terrible contract he becomes an expiring and thus an asset. Evan Turner to the Knicks is a fantasy; there is no possible way it is going to happen.

But so much can go wrong here, which is where I see why anybody would be shaky to take this deal. Evan Turner could turn up a bust, something I don’t see coming, and Elton Brand could turn into Eddy Curry. A move like can this can either make Walsh brilliant, or Isiah Thomas 2.0. But in essence, we would only be giving up Eddy Curry’s deal. Nothing too valuable, considering a) Melo will be working out an extension with Denver this summer, b) Caron Butler couldn’t put Dallas over the top, c) Tim Duncan is old and loves the Spurs (can’t blame him), and d) Parker too loves the Spurs. Pretty much the whole free agent class, except for the 07 draft class, guys who should get locked-up long term this summer.