2010 Game Thread: Mavs at Knicks

Dallas Mavericks

New York Knicks-Offense 93.7 106.3 50.7 15.3 23.4 19.4
Dallas Mavericks-Defense 92 104.9 48.7 15.2 25.6 19.6
New York Knicks-Defense 93.7 107.9 50.6 15.6 26.8 22.2
Dallas Mavericks-Offense 92 107 49.5 14 25.1 22.1

By the standings the Mavs are one of the West’s premier teams, but perhaps they’re not all that they’re cracked up to be. Dallas is 3rd in the Western Conference, but their point differential is only 8th best. From a four factors standpoint they’re just above average on defense and average on offense. When the Knicks have the ball, don’t expect to hear a lot of whistles. New York is 28th at drawing fouls, and Dallas is the best team in the league at denying their opponent free points. On offense Dallas is great and holding onto the ball (3rd in four factors turnovers), but they don’t do anything else particularly well. For their reputation as an offensive juggernaut, their eFG is sub par (tied for 18th) and worse than New York’s (50.7% to 49.5%).

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Mike Kurylo

Mike Kurylo is the founder and editor of KnickerBlogger.net. His book on the 2012 Knicks, "We’ll Always Have Linsanity," is on sale now. Follow him on twitter (@KnickerBlogger).

105 thoughts to “2010 Game Thread: Mavs at Knicks”

  1. This is a tough matchup for the Knicks today, the 2nd straight game against one of the West’s elite to open the 2nd half of the season, gotta get it done. Maybe Hill sees a little more time today after back to back strong showings. What’s up with Nate’s hammy?

  2. If the Knicks fail to improve their point guard play, they will continue to waste strong performances from Lee and Chandler and Gallo this year.

    In the last game thread #45, I think, I outlined how Lee’s performance was literally on par with Gasol’s and Bynum’s – combined – and he played 20 minutes less than them, combined.

    Chandler matched Kobe’s point total.
    But the point guard play was so lopsided.

    No team can survive its point guards shooting 17 percent from the field…and giving up 55 percent shooting to the opposition point guards.

    Jon Abbey’s point about the Knicks not going after a point guard in the draft is dead on. But you can’t point to Lee’s defense, when his offense and boards output is causing far more problems for the opposition.

    I hope Hill gets more minutes and I hope the Knicks use Gallo more to collapse into the paint when the opponent has a big, strong, dominant center. Their length and athleticism would be useful in the defensive paint.

  3. As bad as Duhon is (and he’s bad), I think I prefer him to Larry Hughes (unless you think Toney Douglas can play 48 minutes).

  4. It’s hard to believe that the Knicks are only 3 games back of Chicago.

    Chicago is looking really good and the Knicks are eight games under .500.

  5. Can the Knicks keep Lee and still get a top FA this off-season?

    If they dump Jeffries’ salary, yes. If they don’t, no.

  6. I see the strategy emerging here.

    Get Jeffries and Duhon taking the majority of your shots…

    Damn, brilliant…

  7. Why is Jeffries so bad at tip-ins?

    And Hill, seriously, dude, I dig your enthusiasm, but please stop playing stupidly.

  8. With league revenues exceeding projections by 4.3-5.3%, what effect does this have on the Knicks cap space? Initial projections had the cap between 50 and 53.3 mil and now today there are reports that it could be anywhere from 54 to 57 mil.

  9. 38% field goal shooting.

    I also think the Knicks are actually down 12. MSG seems to have missed a three-pointer earlier.

  10. Im not sure the Knicks could make the playoffs of the all white players league let alone the NBA playoffs this season.

  11. The threes are also wide open ones, too.

    So frustrating.

    The only thing the Knicks have going for them is that it is still early.

  12. All said and done, down 16 is not unbelievable. Especially since Dallas hit so many threes early on (which they are not normally good at). You already saw the three-point percentages coming back to normal a bit at the end of the half, with Dallas missing a few in a row. I would imagine that that will continue in the second half.

    So if the Knicks also come back to normal (they shot 39% from the field, 1 for 11 from three), they could make this a game.

  13. F-Ugly half
    Lately when I watch the Knicks, they get spanked…
    Hard not to take that personal…:)

  14. I was hoping Toney Douglas would “Wally Pipp” Duhon today.

    Not quite.

    But at least Jared Jeffries may be playing his way into the Mavericks rotation!

  15. I can never quite get over how bad Jill Martin is at this whole “interviewing” thing.

  16. Yeah, Dallas sshot 60 percent from 3, and the Knicks 9 percent…

    That can’t last…unless Duhon keeps chucking…

  17. Lately when I watch the Knicks, they get spanked…
    Hard not to take that personal…:)

    I have not watched a Knicks loss live (either on TV or at MSG) since the Nets game, so they better make a comeback!

  18. “Can the Knicks keep Lee and still get a top FA this off-season?

    If they dump Jeffries’ salary, yes. If they don’t, no.”

    The Knicks CAN sign a max free agent and a $10 million dollar player this summer, even without moving Jeffries or Curry. They stand at $27 mil committed for next season, giving them roughly $30 million to work with.

  19. I will admit that I had not seen the reports saying that the cap might be close to $57 million.

    Yes, if the cap is that high they can keep Lee.

    I’m basing all my cap judgments on a $54 million cap (which is actually higher than what other people have been judging the cap by), in which they would not have enough.

  20. David, I get it – the refs fuck you repeatedly. I get that.

    But come on, dude, quit the whining.

  21. I was looking at Hollinger’s Playoff Odds, and the Knicks were at 20%.

    That sounds like about 20 percentage points too high.

  22. Lee’s got to stop bitching and get his head right.


    Now that could go on a headstone…

  23. The best news I’ve heard all day is that apparently there are reports that the cap next year might be closer to $57 than we ever thought it would be.

    That would be excellent news, as if the Knicks then traded Jeffries, they would be able to afford two Max free agents!

  24. Brian, if they have $27M on the books and the cap is $55M then why can’t they sign a max at $15M (Year 1) and Lee at $7M – $8M (Year 1 in a backloaded deal)?

  25. One of the saddest things about watching the Knicks is that you get the sense that they could just fall off the face of the Earth at any moment, in which case a high lottery pick for Utah would come back on the table.

    With the playoffs looking like a remote hope, I’m almost considering having “just play good enough to stay tenth in the East” as a goal.

  26. Brian:

    I agree with #58…
    Ummm, waiting for the locust and pestilence to come now…
    This agreement between us can’t be good…:)

  27. Brian, if they have $27M on the books and the cap is $55M then why can’t they sign a max at $15M (Year 1) and Lee at $7M – $8M (Year 1 in a backloaded deal)?

    Because Lee is not going to take a $7-8M deal when he will easily have his pick of $10M deals (at least) out there.

  28. Do we disagree on many things, Frank?

    The Nate thing is the only notable thing that I recall.

  29. “I’m basing all my cap judgments on a $54 million cap (which is actually higher than what other people have been judging the cap by), in which they would not have enough.”

    Brian– even if the cap is $54 million, I think the Knicks can still sign a max player and Lee. The first year of a max deal would be $16.2 million. Add that to the $27.3 already committed and you are left with $10.5 million for Lee.

    The moving Jeffires/Curry necessity is if the Knicks want 2 max players this summer. Under that scenario the Knicks have to renounce Lee to make the room.

  30. Oh, Z? If so, then that’s great news, too!

    I could see Lee taking $10.5 to stay in NY.

  31. Since their 1-9 start, the Knicks will be 16-17 since (after this game finishes).

    So, in other words, they’re bad either way.

  32. “I don’t know if there is a scenario where the Knicks would end up with a PG, Jeff.”

    Trade Hill for Lawson, maybe?

  33. Brian, you’re right again…

    Um, I’m sorry. You can’t let this shit happen on your home court, with two of their starters out.
    This is shameful

  34. Hey– what happened to your list of awesome free agent PGs??

    I figured I would try to add PGs you could trade for, too.

  35. Jeff’s point is that Steve Blake, or anyone else on that list, would have to be free.

    Unfortunately, since the Knicks went with Hill over Jennings/Lawson/etc…, their PG for next year almost has to be Toney Douglas (barring a trade that brings back a PG in exchange for Jeffries or Curry).

    But luckily, even a minimum salary D-Leaguer is an upgrade over the current PG.

  36. “I figured I would try to add PGs you could trade for, too.”

    Ahhh– cool. That’s what I was thinking too.

  37. Jeez– I just noticed we are losing by 50, on our home court :(

    At least we got to lose in style with our snazzy orange socks…

  38. I think D’Antoni would like to pull an Urban Meyer and take a leave of absence until July 1.

  39. Apropos of nothing, I don’t buy the whole “It doesn’t matter if you play in New York or Cleveland” meme that is being pushed out there. If all things else are basically equal, it’s better to play in New York than Cleveland.

  40. I didn’t realize Malik Rose was with the Knicks again. (And doing what he does best– sitting in a suit and tie and TALKING about basketball.

  41. So, is 50 the worst home loss ever?

    They lost by more than 50 to the Celtics on the road, right?

  42. The Knicks have got to be thanking their lucky stars that the Jets are playing today, so no one will really make much of a big deal out of this loss. And if the Jets somehow win, you won’t hear anyone mention the Knicks in the media for quite some time.

  43. “I could see Lee taking $10.5 to stay in NY.”

    Well, Lee’s cap hold is 10.5 million, so if he wants more than that, we can sign first a max free agent and then sign Lee with his bird rights to whatever amount (or try a S&T to get a 2nd Max Contract)

    We would still need a PG, however, and there’s no cap for that (unless Lee signs for much less than those 10.5 million, which is unlikely)

  44. Great point, iserp.

    If that was the situation, the Knicks would be in a great spot to read the market and find out who is willing to come to NY and tell Lee that if he waits a little bit, they’ll match whatever offer he can get.

    (By the by, I don’t believe Lee’s cap hold is that high – it was being reported a lot during the offseason that it would be $10.5, but I believe that was when people were presuming he was going to make over $8 million. He ended up signing for $7 million, so his cap hold is under $10 million).

  45. “He ended up signing for $7 million, so his cap hold is under $10 million”

    I think that because Lee makes more than the average salary his cap hold is 150% of his current salary. That puts the cap hold at $10.5 million (not sure how one factors the $1 million incentive for making the playoffs, if at all).

    But Iserp makes 2 good points– about going over the cap for Lee AND about how there are still a half dozen roster spots that would need to be filled with minimum contracts.

    In a bizarre world, could a trade like this be possible: Wolves get Curry and Hill, Knicks get Blount and Sessions?

  46. Oh, I see my confusion. I thought that since the Knicks signed him to the one-year deal, that that would not still count as Lee being on his “rookie contract.”

    But since it does, then yeah, it’s 150% of his salary.

    My apologies, iserp. But either way, yeah, if the cap turns out to be $54 plus, the Knicks look to be in good shape to re-sign Lee.

    The problem is that we don’t know their chances of signing anyone else!

  47. what a game! this is the first and the last time Jeffries leads his team for scoring in a game and that is just with 14!!

    Lee is a good player and he developed himself a lot. Yet I am not sure if there is anybody out there who is going to pay him 10M+ x 5 year contract. even 7-8M with lots of back load will not be a good deal either.

  48. Rmush, you are misreading the situation. Lee will easily get 10M per year, and he’s worth it, too.

    Unlike last year, he is an unrestricted free agent, and should be a first-time all star. And don’t forget that there are plenty of GMs who have made a career out of overpaying guys. I think the Knicks may find 10M per for him, by dumping Jeffries. Or, if this cap news holds, that’s terrific news for the ‘bockers. But maybe OKC comes in and offers 11.5 or something and the Knicks don’t want to overpay ..?

    I’m really glad I had no idea the Knicks were playing today. I think I’ll stick with tennis and football for a little while.

  49. Wow, so glad i missed this one. Did we just quit in the 4th quarter or what? This is a complete embarrassment in my book. Maybe the refs had a lot to do with it, but losing by 50 to a Kidd-less Mavs is a disgrace. I’m tired of this team playing with my emotions like a yo-yo.

  50. Knicks play the T’Wolves twice this upcoming week (home to Toronto and at the Wizards in between) so if there is any slight hope left of this “playoff run” lasting a bit longer they better go at worst 3-1 the rest of this month.

  51. The Knicks loss to the Lakers was understandable and expected being the Lakers size over the Knicks, plus Lakers having 7-Starters in their game by game 9-Man Rotation (the best record in the NBA).

    But what happen to the Knicks after the loss to the Lakers? Did something take place in the Lockerroom, Practice, or off the court Texting, before the Mavs game???

    The Knicks vs Mavs in MSG….was the “Worst-Defensive-Game” the Knicks showed in 5 seasons.

    WOW! WTF happen to defending your oponent!
    We were “Torched” for a 50 point loss….when both teams shot 86 fga!!!
    another speechless Damntoni Knick game….every player committing a turnover (even DNP Hughes never standing-up during any timeouts).
    Worst Loss in the career of the Knicks franchise in MSG….whats next???

    I been asked several times by B-Ball Fans this season “What facts or proof do I have to show that Damntoni probably wont be the Knicks headcoach in 2010-11 season?”.
    After the 50 point loss in MSG to a defenseless Mavs team (without their super-star guard Kidd), I’m sure thats a question I wont see asked on my text and in Knick Forums again, b/c the head coach is answering the question himself. (not directed at anyone b/c the question will answer itself).
    The same-page coach Damntoni got a wake-up call this Sunday afternoon.
    Did anyone watch Shawn Marion before and after the game???

    P.S. I have come to the conclusion Chris Duhon could do no wrong in Damntoni system

  52. On TKB they wrote about trading Lee, Jeffries, Chandler for Amare Stoudemire claiming he was better than Lee at all facets of the game. I think that would be an AWFUL trade for the Knicks. First of all I do not think Amare is a better rebounder, passer or finisher in the pick n roll. Second, Amare has a history of injury. Third, he is not a good defender for his athletic level. Fourth, he is not worth a max deal because he is does not make you an immediate 50 win team.

    The idea of getting rid of Jeffries in this deal is indeed enticing but I would prefer Lee, Chandler, LeBron to just Amare, LeBron.

  53. Really other than shot blocking and maybe vicious dunking (which of course is worth the same as a plain dunk) what can he do better than Lee? Not rebound, nor shoot, nor prevent opposing big men from having big games when they play him. I think Amare is a bit of faux superstar. And Amare gets the benefit of playing with Nash while Lee has to do his work with.

  54. You have a career waiting in the back pages of the Post, young man. Take thee to the comments section there and commiserate with your fellow DanDummi sufferers.

    Seriously, Damntoni? I thought seeing DanDummi there was lame. Now granted I was only able to half-watch this at work, so I entirely missed the third quarter by the grace of god, and maybe that keeps me from being so suicidal about it, but let’s not overreact. You had some salient points in your post(like Duhon being untouchable by default) but you’re just putting a HS essay in a Lisa Frank binder with that language.

    After this weekend I wouldn’t be surprised to see us lose to the Wizards, but if we only go .500 this week, the faint promise of this season won’t be getting any brighter.

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