Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Thursday, October 2, 2014

2010 Game Thread and Preview: Knicks v. Bobcats

The only game in the NBA tonight is Charlotte at New York. 

I guess with the BCS National Championship tonight the NBA scheduled a game they thought would be of little importance. Well guess what NBA, this game happens to be very important. Seriously, it is.  The Knicks need this game to even the season series with the Bobcats thereby preventing the Bobcats from holding an outright tiebreaker.  Yes, the playoffs are 4 months away and I’m talking tiebreakers.  But admit it, aren’t you glad the Knicks are even part of a tiebreaker discussion?  Anyway, if the Knicks and Bobcats end the season tied the tiebreaker moves to conference record which favors the Bobcats right now, but a win gives them time to catch up.

Knicks Offense Eff eFG TO OREB% FT/FG
Stat 106.5 50.7 15.1 23.2 19.7
Rank 16 10 9 29 28
Knicks Defense Eff eFG TO OREB% FT/FG
Stat 107.4 50.9 16.2 26 22.5
Rank 19 23.5 9.5 10 16
Bobcats Offense Eff eFG TO OREB% FT/FG
Stat 101.1 48.1 18.3 25.5 25.8
Rank 26 23 30 22 4
Bobcats Defense Eff eFG TO OREB% FT/FG
Stat 101.3 48.9 17.6 24.9 21.4
Rank 3 12 3.5 7 11

What to watch for 1: Who are you and what have you done with the Bobcats?

Charlotte has beaten a few strong teams during their 3 game win streak and are just three games under .500. Wondering how the Bobcats went from losing by 20 to the Pistons to beating the Heat and Cavs? Well, they added Stephen Jackson and subtracted Tyson Chandler in favor of Nazr Mohammed. 

Jackson (17.8/36 minutes) has really helped their anemic offense, which is in the bottom 3rd of the NBA in efficiency and eFG%.

Mohammed has come in at center and put up way better numbers than Tyson Chandler.  Mohammed’s pts/36 (18.9) is double that of Chandler’s, plus he is more efficient.  He has a higher rebounding rate, (17.5) and half the turnover rate (11.2) of Chandler.  Wow if only the Knicks could get their hands on a center like that.  Well I can’t lament too much as trading him got us the pick that became Lee, but still.

What to watch for 2: Stopping the Bobcats 1, 2, 3.

The Bobcats have a strong defense but a weak offense.  The Knicks need to focus on the most important cogs in the Bobcats’ offense: Felton (PG), Jackson (SG), and Wallace (SF)–get it 1,2,3?  Felton, Wallace, and Jackson are the Bobcats’ top scorers and they each prefer to get inside to do their damage, which is probably why the Bobcats are 4th in FT/FG ratio on offense and smart considering the Bobcats are 24th in 3pfg%.  The Knicks need to keep those three out of the paint and force them into bad outside shots.  The Bobcats know the Knicks are not strong inside defenders so they will look to get into the paint.  The Knicks need to stop them.  Oh and Jeffries if you are reading, you don’t have to try and draw a charge on every drive.  A steal or a block is really nice too.

What to watch for 3:  Wilson Chandler.

Chandler has played very well as of late and this game is going to be a very good test for him.  Chandler will likely match up against either Wallace or Jackson and that will be the biggest test for him on defense in weeks.  On the other side of the ball Chandler needs to stay aggressive and force either Wallace or Jackson to pick up a few fouls because….

What to watch for 4: The reserves.

The Bobcats have a very thin bench.  Outside of Flip Murray they get very little from the reserves.  It’s so bad that Larry Brown gives rookie Derrick Brown 11 minutes a game.  Brown only plays rookie out of absolute need.  Staying aggressive on offense and getting to the Bobcat reserves is a very good thing because the Knicks have a clear advantage in terms of depth.

Your in game thoughts here.

193 comments on “2010 Game Thread and Preview: Knicks v. Bobcats

  1. tastycakes

    College Football is SOOO boring.
    And I live in Austin, TX!
    (Gonna flip between the two .. last college ball game I watched in earnest featured Vince Young winning the BCS game against USC, which was amazing)

  2. Z-man

    Felton is also a factor, he’s been very solid, at least against us. Wonder if Nate will be effective against him, his quickness can be a big factor on both ends.

  3. BigBlueAL

    Hell replace him with….nobody. Barring foul trouble Nate will be only player off bench with major minutes, followed by 10-15 minutes for Bender. Maybe TD or Landry gets a few minutes in the 2nd quarter.

  4. Travis Knight Rider

    I don’t know why, but I find Felton’s spin move at the top of the key infuriating.

  5. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    “I don’t know why, but I find Felton’s spin move at the top of the key infuriating.”

    It’s very much a “high school point guard” move.

    This ball movement is making the Knicks look like a European team–

    and that is AWESOME.

  6. rohank

    They should pretty much always feature Lee and Gallo.

    btw when will lee start getting respect (aka calls) from the refs?

  7. SeeWhyDee77

    15..30..37..38..DO-DO-D-D-DOOOOO!! 45-47!!! lol..i’m buggin. I won’t comment much tonite on the game b/c it seems like every time I do-we have a bad game. But..we have got to put our foot in they asses tonite becuz recently LB and his gang has had our number. One thing I would love to see is Bender with his length, play weakside help D like Camby used to. He’s nowhere near as athletic as Camby was, but he’s got the type of length that can hurt opposing offenses. Between he and JJ, there should be no passing lanes lol.

  8. Travis Knight Rider

    Three things:

    Jonathan Bender never passes
    Nate Robinson probably shouldn’t have strayed so far away from Flip Murray
    Wilson Chandler apparently instantly regresses to Bad Chandler when Nate is on the floor.

  9. Brian Cronin

    They should pretty much always feature Lee and Gallo.

    Without Harrington to replace him, Gallo being on the bench really hurts the team.

  10. SeeWhyDee77

    damn. How did I miss his injury? I guess my attention musta been on talkin Arenas outta shootin me with his gun fingers. This broadcast is horrible, what’s up with all the breaks when all u can hear is noise from the arena and no broadcasting?

  11. Travis Knight Rider

    I guess you have to give the refs credit – they’re not giving either team any calls

  12. IMissWillis

    Lee’s having an awesome game. Don’t know off-hand what his stats are, and don’t really care. That dunk was incredible and the hustle (getting slammed into the bench to say the least) is commendable. Wish the other knicks showed half his heart.

    Anyone else get a bad feeling when gallo checked back into the game after having his shoulder wrapped?

  13. Brian Cronin

    Anyone else get a bad feeling when gallo checked back into the game after having his shoulder wrapped?

    Not until you mentioned it. Damn you!

  14. Frank O.

    Bender needs work but three blocks in the first half is useful.
    On the other hand 3 turnovers is bad/.

  15. IMissWillis

    Sorry friend, in our best interest, I will definitely keep my mouth shut on that front.

    I know there have been fraggle rock comparisons to Al, but he looks more like Michelangelo from the ninja turtles to me.

    While the ball movement hasn’t been up to par with the last few games, good to see that the cutting is still there. We can’t beat this team if we revert back to settling for j’s

  16. Brian Cronin

    Definitely need to bench nate then. Causation and all that…:)

    It’s a fine joke, until people actually believe it.

  17. IMissWillis

    Fell like Lee’s all star case would be cemented (from a knicks’ fan’s perspective of course) by a dominating 4th, especially given he played the whole 1st half

  18. Travis Knight Rider

    At the start of the season, I would never have pictured me becoming such a big Chandler fan. He reminds me a lot of Josh Smith – as long as he doesn’t shoot 3s and keeps his focus, he’s really good.

  19. Brian Cronin

    Pelton looks like a genius, doesn’t he?

    He was talking about how the Knicks were bound to have a down game for three-point defense and, well, voila…

    Thankfully, Duhon responded!

    Gallo is impressive playing through obvious discomfort.

  20. Frank O.

    Knicks D has been very tough in the 4th.
    Jeffries is playing very tough.
    I think it’s more defense, with short bursts of offense.

  21. Thomas B. Post author

    Forget New York Boston I want to see New York v Charlotte in the playoffs.

    I’ll say one thing Baseball gets right that all other sports miss. When there is a tie, they have one game playoffs. How sweet would that be?

  22. Frank O.

    Annoying that this is even close.
    The Knicks TOs really are the only reason this is close…

  23. greatscott

    Danilloooooo Gallinarrrrrrrrrrrrrriiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii!

  24. Frank O.

    I could get used to this.
    Two key players down and the Knicks young three step up.
    Lee, Chandler and Gallo played tough. Chandler 27 pts, 7 rebounds and 6 assists…
    Jeffries was the anchor.
    nate has a nifty 19 minutes.
    Bender had 4 blocks.

    Really balanced effort.
    if they can clean up the TOs, this isn’t close.

  25. Thomas B. Post author

    And the Knicks hold another team under 100. Lets give it up for Wilson Chandler who is playing really well as late. 27, 7, and 6. Those are very good numbers. Also, notice how Chandler can dominate a game and never go out and celebrate like Nate does when he makes a layup? Thank god we didnt trade Chandler for that skinny spaniard.

  26. ess-dog

    4 blocks from Bender? Is that a typo? And gallo’s 3 pt % must be insane right now, what is it?

  27. Frank O.

    What has become so interesting about the knicks is they have so many ways they can hurt a team.
    They have legit outside threats. A low post threat. Slashers.
    And then when they need to they can clamp down and shut a team down.

  28. Frank O.

    Maybe its post win euphoria, but this team is starting to feel like a better than .500 club.

  29. Brian Cronin

    And gallo’s 3 pt % must be insane right now, what is it?

    He “only” shot 5 for 11 (which is very good, of course, don’t get me wrong), so it shouldn’t affect his three-point percentage too much. He entered the game a little under 41%. That’s quite good, but not insane-levels yet (of course, at a very high volume, which is awesome).

  30. SeeWhyDee77

    See? I told yal-if I don’t comment much during the game, we win!! lol. We could have done w/o the sloppy ball handling tonite, but overall it was a quite efficient game. Those guys are REALLY focusing on defense!! For real!! I never thought it would happen, keep up the good work NYK!

  31. IMissWillis

    This was a good win. There are no ifs and’s or but’s about it. Hard fought. It shows how records don’t mean anything on a given night. Which is a good thing given our’s. Can’t wait to see what we do in the future

  32. Frank O.

    Ladies and gentlemen:
    This has been a much better than .500 basketball team now for a while. We all focus on their record, but take away the 1-9 start and this team is 14-11.
    No shit.

  33. Frank O.

    Since Dec. 1, they’re 12-6, with wins over phoenix, Atlanta twice, Portland, NO, and the ‘cats twice.
    Not a bad run at all.

  34. nicos

    Really nice game for Chandler- great to see him get to the basket against some pretty good wing defenders and his passing off of the drive was excellent- 6 assists w/just one turnover and he hit Gallo and Bender for wide open threes which didn’t go down so he could have had 8. Also did a really good job on D- even guarding Felton at times down the stretch.
    Also- did the Knicks get even one shooting foul? Chandler’s free throws were off intentional fouls down the stretch, Nate’s on techs. I can’t remember the Duhon play. Hard to believe that as often as the Knicks took it to the hoop they didn’t get to the line at all. To be fair the officials were definitely letting them play at both ends but still…
    And that last three by Gallo- as great as it was that it went in that was as bad a shot, given time left in the game and on the shot clock and given where he was on the floor as I’ve seen in a long, long time. Still it’s great to see that he wants to take big shots. And finally, biggest shot of the game? Duhon’s 3 after Charlotte tied it up- absolutely huge.

  35. Brian Cronin

    And that last three by Gallo- as great as it was that it went in that was as bad a shot, given time left in the game and on the shot clock and given where he was on the floor as I’ve seen in a long, long time.

    No way, that straight on three is a shot all big-time three pointer shooters take.

    It’s definitely a makeable shot.

    I had no problem with him putting that up (as opposed to when Nate shot a similar three against Atlanta, where I was thinking, “Noooo…oh, good!”).

  36. Frank O.

    Oh yeah, one of the most accurate 3pt shooters in the NBA gets a straight on look at a three?
    I would question it if he didn’t take it.
    We all have been calling for him to step up and seek out the big shot.
    Tonight, his was a dagger.

  37. BigBlueAL

    What a game, good thing I couldnt comment during the game because the roller-coaster of emotions (and therefore comments) would have been crazy.

    One thing for sure must be noted, a HORRIBLE game by the refs. Absolutely brutal. Also tonight we saw the best of Nate in a short spurt at the end of the 3rd and early 4th and the worst of Nate for the entire 1st half and that unbelievably stupid TO at the end of the game. Safe to say you can love and hate Nate a million different times during the same game like tonight. Reminds me so much of John Starks back in the day.

  38. glidernyc

    Gallo and Chandler bail out Nate tonight. He was a disaster. Seven turnovers in limited minutes just can’t happen.

  39. nicos

    My problem with Gallo’s shot was that there were about 10 seconds left on the shot clock- up 4 and less than 50 seconds left in the game there’s no way you should be putting up a 28-footer when you have that much time left on the shot clock. Add to that with that shot, if you do miss the chances of a long rebound and run-out by Charotte also go up. Under 5 seconds on the shot clock, absolutely take it but there- not the best decision.

  40. BigBlueAL

    The turnovers and his defense in the 1st half was horrible. But in fairness he spear-headed the 15-0 run that bridged the end of 3rd quarter and start of 4th quarter which basically saved the game and the Knicks played amazing D for most of the 4th quarter even with Nate in the game for the first 6 minutes of the quarter. Like I mentioned tonight you saw the best of Nate and worst of Nate.

  41. Frank

    Great win, great game. I love the fact that Gallo had the stones to take those shots. The kid loves to take the big shot and make them. No wonder he was the go-to-guy as a teenager on his Italian team. I have no problem at all with the best 3 point shooter in the league taking a wide open straightaway 3.

    Chandler is really becoming something. This last month he has just been unconscious. 6 assists tonight! And I loved the counter-move he showed tonight when he drove right, then spun left and finished with the left hand.

    Over the last 5 he is shooting 54% from the field, 86% from the FT line on 21 FTs, and best of all is 2 out of only 7 from 3. 22.4 points/game, 8.8 rebounds/game, 3.2 assists/game, and a steal and a block per game. Those are awesome numbers out of a guy we were all killing earlier in the year. If he keeps this up he has a shot at most-improved player. And he plays pretty damn good D as well. At least for now, it looks like D’Antoni knew what he was talking about when he spoke so highly of Ill Will.

  42. TheRant

    So many things to like about tonight’s game. I’m getting weepy.

    - David Lee is quietly so strong. Finishing with both hands, making Nazr Mohammed look so stiff. Playing defense.

    - Team defense on Jackson and Felton was quite good.

    - Wilson Chandler is really turning out to be the player we were sold once upon a time. Not just his stats, but playing strong, playing defense.

    - I loved the Chandler to Duhon to Chandler set play from out of bounds.

    - Gallo is so plaesing to watch. I’m going to start calling him Danny 29 for his seeming ability to hit from 29th St. He’s playing good D. Opposing teams are trying to finish at the rim and he and Jefferies and Bender are always there. We’re almost half way back to the old days of Ewing Oakley and Mason where opposing teams entered the lane at their own risk. (I *did* say “almost half way,” mind you.)

    - Jared Jefferies — who knew you had it in you?

    - And Duhon even seems like a point guard these days.

    A nice win. I’ll take it.

  43. Brian Cronin

    My problem with Gallo’s shot was that there were about 10 seconds left on the shot clock- up 4 and less than 50 seconds left in the game there’s no way you should be putting up a 28-footer when you have that much time left on the shot clock. Add to that with that shot, if you do miss the chances of a long rebound and run-out by Charotte also go up. Under 5 seconds on the shot clock, absolutely take it but there- not the best decision.

    I’m always fine with one of the best three point shooters in the game taking an open look at a three. If it was, like, Chandler or Harrington, then fine, not a good idea. But Gallo? Pretty much any set shot he wants is a good decision in my book.

  44. jon abbey

    yeah, I agree with that. I loved that he was calling for the ball there too.

    Nate was mostly pretty awful (so many wide open 3s for Charlotte while he was in, and some hideous turnovers/decisions), but his stretch at the end of the third and start of the fourth was huge.

    12-6 in the last 18! I did not think there was any chance this team was capable of a run like this, hope they can keep it going.

  45. kaine

    also, when you concentrate too much on the clock, usually ends on a bad\weak shots.

    even kobe takes bad shots…but he can make them. it’s all about confidence.
    great players do that.

  46. knickstoday.com

    that right, take the good shot even though gallo was 28 feet away he was open enough.

    Big win by the knicks they can play with the second tier teams in the east and thensome.

    can you smell .500?

  47. d-mar

    Gallo supplied the dagger, but as someone else said, Duhon’s 3 was the biggest shot of the game. The Cats had just hit 2 3′s to tie it and had momentum, and we did not want to see them go ahead. Big time clutch shot.

    To revisit a prior discussion, which team is better right now – the Cavs w/o LeBron or the Knicks? I think it’s a total no-brainer now that Lee has elevated his game and Chandler has as well. I think Ted Nelson said at the time (and granted this was when the Knicks were struggling) that the Cavs defense was superior, but now I’m not so sure. And offensively I don’t think it’s close. I think we’re becoming a more appealing team to FA”s every day.

  48. Frank O.

    you know, T-MAX’s agent Tellep(?) was at the game last night and met with the knicks about his client.
    I have a feeling that knicks may be trying to talk the rockets into taking nate and maybe jeffries for T-MAX.
    Not sure, but Nate’s offense is pretty exciting for some teams as a 6th man. Altho Nate would have to approve the trade, which means he’d lose his bird rights…
    But houston might be a good place for him to land.

  49. Ted Nelson

    “To revisit a prior discussion, which team is better right now – the Cavs w/o LeBron or the Knicks? I think it’s a total no-brainer now”

    I wouldn’t call it a no-brainer, but the Knicks are definitely making it a tough call. If they lose Lee, Duhon, Nate, and Harrington in free agency and manage to trade Jeffries they have a lot of holes to fill, but their young talent is a big advantage. Z and Shaq are aging free agents, and if Cleveland has no legitimate center (either because they leave/retire or become ineffective as they age) I would probably give the edge to the Knicks.

    “But houston might be a good place for him to land.”

    Might be, but they do have two undersized guards in Brooks and Lowry already.
    One interesting thing I hadn’t really thought about: with so many teams under the cap, might mid-level type guys have a hard time getting a deal because teams do not have their mid-level exceptions and use their cap space on higher profile guys?

  50. tastycakes

    It was a very satisfying win, for sure. I love beating up on old man Brown.

    The refs seemed like they needed to get out of there so they could watch the BCS game or something.

    So .. maybe the cap gurus here can enlighten me. Is it possible to let this team play out the year and move Jeffries — who will then only have 1 year remaining — before the free agent sweepstakes begins?

    As I said in an earlier thread, if you can move Jeffries without taking on contract or giving up too much youth, you have to do it. But do they have to do it *this year*?

    Having fun watching the Knicks. Good times!

  51. mase

    Nate and jeffries for t- mac, we might not make the playoffs. Walsh would have a tough decision to make

  52. IMissWillis

    Decent box score that might lead one to believe this was another dominating game for the Knicks:

    FG%: 53-41 NYK
    3pt%: 50-46 NYK
    FT%: 87-70 NYK (How can the refs only give 18 ft’s for THE WHOLE GAME!)
    REB: 43-35 NYK
    AST: 23-23
    PiP: 44-30 NYK

    However, it was the turnovers that killed us:

    STL: 11-3 CHA
    Team TO ( points off ): 18 (18)-7 (9) CHA

    Mr. Robinson I am looking in your general direction… hopefully just a by-product of sitting

    Interesting that Lee’s +/- was -3

    Good to see Landry get some run, even if it was for only 5. Second quarter too, if memory serves

  53. IMissWillis

    Dominating might have been too strong a word, but given those stats you would probably not guess that we only won by 4

  54. Kikuchiyo

    While I hope my comment won’t bring a curse upon the Knicks (ahem), I do think it’s worth mentioning that Isiah is looking much better these days as a spotter of young talent. Chandler, Lee, Robinson, Frye, and Ariza are all making a lot of noise in the league these days.

    Of course this does nothing to change Isiah’s historically bad free agent signings unless Jared Jeffries suddenly develops Duncan-esque offensive skills.

  55. Ted Nelson

    It’s a fair point, Kikuchiyo. Jeffries is not Tim Duncan, but his value is also its highest since coming to NY. Crawford and Randolph, other Zeke acquisitions, are also having career-year type seasons on good offensive teams. That leaves Curry and the Balkman/Mardy draft as the only undeniable blunders (pure talent wise) I can think of. Even Francis (+ Frye) turned into Randolph which is not necessarily a good thing in any context other than the revival of Isiah acquisitions.

    It was never a question of whether Isiah and/or his scouts could spot talent, though, it was a question of whether he could build and run a team. He failed on both counts. Maybe he’ll get it done at FIU, where trades and cap considerations are irrelevant.

  56. ess-dog

    The T-Mac trade:

    It must be obvious to everyone involved that we want to do it for the cap space. Walsh can couch it by saying we’ll give TMac a fresh start, a chance to show his stuff before he becomes a free agent, a starting spot, we love what he brings to the table, blah blah blah, but the desire is to get rid of Jeffries so that we can get 2 max free agents. Only problem is, Houston can make a big run at Wade if the renounce all their free agents (including Scuola) which they should want to do. So I can’t imagine them taking back non-expiring contracts for TMac. Maybe it would be worth doing if we can also get their 1st round pick for a Jeffries/Nate type package. But Nate will probably nix the deal and no one wants to send Chandler packing right now. And no other deal really makes sense. I would maybe focus on the Blazers re: a Jeffries trade. Maybe the Clippers? Any team that isn’t a player in 2010.

  57. Sandy

    A lot of players can develop if you give them the lions share of minutes over time. Thomas deserves very little credit in my book.

  58. Brian Cronin

    Interesting that Lee’s +/- was -3

    Yeah, he missed the second part of the Nate-driven 15-0 run.

  59. Z-man

    Nice win. The teams seem evenly matched, and the games have reflected as much.

    Jeffries is currently worth every penny of the MLE he signed for. After the game, they played a montage of the little things he did to help the team win, e.g. altering shots, double-teaming penetrators, etc.

    I thought Bender had his best all-around game since his first game back. Quietly, he played some nice interior defense and attacked the defensive boards. His 3 was part of the nice comeback, wasn’t it? His hands seem HUGE! His footwork is still a mess, but I see D’Antoni’s reasoning in sticking with him.

    Good for Harrington to see that he doesn’t have to do it all.

    I thought Hughes could have helped us defensively for a short stretch, but the ol’ “when you’re out, you’re out” rule applied.

    Hmmm… who do we root for in the Bucks-Bulls game?

  60. Thomas B. Post author

    @ Sandy 151
    “Thomas deserves very little credit in my book.”

    This is the thanks I get for all the hard work I put into these game previews? Gee thanks alot.

  61. Frank O.

    Thanks for the link, Mike.

    A couple interesting points made.
    1) @145 noted that the game was closer perhaps than the stats would have indicated.
    But hte article you mosted, Mike, drew the complete opposite conclusions from the stats. To whit:
    “Another funny thing about this game is that if you look at the numbers, you would think that the Bobcats won. Seriously, they hit the same number of 3s, went to the line more, had 11 fewer turnovers, 8 more steals, and had more offensive rebounds. The Knicks were a tad more efficient of the offensive end (better FG% and 3P%) and got easier shots (more points in the paint). That was enough to give them the slight edge.”

    2) The breakdown shows that once again Jeffries did a smart, little thing that gave Gallinari just enough room to get the shot off.

    I think we have all moved beyond the box score an stats on Jeffries and begun to see his contributions in a different light entirely. i don’t think anyone would dispute that this run for the knicks would be no where near as successful without him.
    in one game, i can’t recall exactly which one, he fouled out of a close game with 2;30 left, and from the point on, the opposition seemed to score at will.

    Someone wrote that at this point he’s worth every penny of the mid-level and i would have to agree.

  62. Frank O.

    Also, last night, for the first time, the Knicks seemed to solve Felton.
    I think jeffries played a valuable role there too.

  63. Thomas B. Post author

    Like most things, my feelings on Jeffries can be captured in song.

    “Something Stupid” for JJ

    I know you hold the defensive line
    And you do it all the time
    To help the team win
    And if you come up with a block
    I know that it won’t be a shock
    When you are seeing me grin

    Then afterwards you take a charge
    And even come up with a steal or two
    And then you go and spoil it all
    By trying a scoring move
    That you can’t do

    I can see it in your eyes
    When you’re beyond the 3 point line
    “Hey, I’ve hit these before.”
    But your shot is such a joke
    And you’ve got such an awful stroke
    All you hit is the floor

    I search every single day
    to find some clever way
    To make a trade come through
    But when I pull your salary,
    That’s when I am forced to see
    I’m stuck with you.

  64. KnickFan4Life

    Nate, Jeffries, and Hughes I believe works.

    They get two expiring’s and a useful player for one expiring, fair enough, and they might be able to keep Nate since that team could use scoring in the back-court.

    For those wanting to trade Nate, you have to remember he has veto power. He supposedly nixed a trade to Memphis already…

  65. nicos

    Another key to the play on Mike’s link was how quickly Chandler got the ball to Gallo- no hesitation at all, clearly didn’t even consider taking the 3 himself. Of all the improvements Chandler’s made his improved passing is probably the most surprising to me. He’s made a number of really nice passes off of drives- including two last night that Jeffries was actually able catch and convert (if there was any justice in scorekeeping those would count for at least two assists each!). Here’s a question- would you use Wil as throw-in to move Curry’s contract (I’m taking it as a given that given how well both of them are playing you wouldn’t move Chandler with Jeffries just to dump salary w/o getting something of real value in return)? I don’t Wil has played well enough to get anyone to bite on Curry yet but if he averages 20 for the next month (at over 50% fg) & 7 or 8 boards and 3 or 4 assists and continues with low turnovers & very good man defense does he make Curry movable?

  66. Frank O.

    Thomas:
    Jeffries hater…
    :)

    You know how some people grow fond of an ugly dog…that’s kind of where I’m at with JJ. :)

  67. Frank O.

    A point worth making about Lee:
    I was watching some more of the game from last night and i have noticed that Lee is not only getting more aggressive offensively. He’s getting more aggressive generally.
    There were several dunks and rebounds and plays around the hoop where Lee gave shoves, dropped elbows or kind of played in some guy’s faces.
    I think all great players have a mean streak, or that ability to get nasty from time to time. Lee’s got it.
    It was just noticable some of his posturing. When he slammed, really postorized, Wallace and a couple other plays, he got in their faces a bit.
    i like to see it.

    FWIW, he’s also one of the better interviews in the league.

  68. Spree8nyk8

    People talking about adding Lebron and Wade are insane. It would be a horrible fit. They both need the ball to do what they do. Also, if the Knicks add two marquee players they are going to lose David Lee. So the answer has to be Bosh. Otherwise they have to keep Lee. You need a big man who rebounds a ton if you are going to lose Lee. Bosh is 8th in scoring and 5th in rebounding and would be a much better fit with Lebron. If you get Wade and Lebron whose going to rebound?

    Honestly, I just hope that whatever they do incorporates Gallinari well, bc he is going to be a star.

  69. Z-man

    d-mar, agree, Duhon’s shot was key.

    Jeffries and Lee have complicated the salary cap picture. What about only going for 1 max this year and 1 next year? (otheres here have said that.) Maybe we go for LeBron now and CP3 later.

    Gallo
    LeBron
    DLee
    IllWil
    CP3

    That could work!

  70. Z-man

    BTW I didn’t like the way Nate almost got a T on the offensive foul call. It was definitely a bad call, but a T there would have set him back.

    The refs let everything go, and I think that helped the Knicks.

  71. Spree8nyk8

    Z-man, won’t work, Resigning Lee would take away the cap space that we would have left so it wouldn’t be an option.

  72. Thomas B. Post author

    @ 163

    Its a love hate relationship for me. Love him on d hate him shooting. Of all of Thomas’ free agent signings, this was the best.

  73. Mulligan

    Anybody else secretly dream about playing ‘Bron as a PG? If we keep Lee, fuggetabouit that’s a perennial contender the way our guys are playing right now.

    Lebron
    Pretty Toney/Jeffries/Bender/Morris Almond/Anybody
    Chandler
    Gallo
    Lee

    Just to be clear: is it impossible for us to have Jeffries on the books, sign Lebron and keep Lee? Jeffries really is growing on me…

  74. Mulligan

    Also: what happened to Owen and Caleb? I miss those guys. I always thought it was awesome that Caleb’s avatar/picture thingy was Jim Carroll. Wish I had thought of that (maybe I’ll steal it if he’s not comin’ back).
    While I’m in a wistful mood: I think I’ve been reading this blog since 2004. Besides the NYTimes and Slate, this is probably the only website I’ve visited consistently for that long…
    Thanks for all the wonderful content Mike and other contributors. I rarely post here, but love reading the posts and most of the comments…

  75. Frank O.

    I just watch noah stare at the hoop for 5 seconds holding the ball at 13 feet, unwilling to shoot and utterly unguarded.
    Not good.
    Remember how there were people on this blog ready to give up Lee for Noah…?

    Not in a million years now…

  76. d-mar

    “I just watch noah stare at the hoop for 5 seconds holding the ball at 13 feet, unwilling to shoot and utterly unguarded.
    Not good.
    Remember how there were people on this blog ready to give up Lee for Noah…?

    Not in a million years now…”

    That’s a great point Frank. I think there were other equally bad (in hindsight) deals proposed for Lee before his resurgence. One thing I really like about Walsh is his patience, so far in his tenure, it truly is a virtue.

    More difficult hypothetical question, would you trade Jeffries (forgetting about the contract) straight up for Noah? Not an easy call, IMO.

  77. Z-man

    “Z-man, won’t work, Resigning Lee would take away the cap space that we would have left so it wouldn’t be an option.”

    If Lee really wants to stay in NY, cant they renounce his Bird rights and sign him after signing LeBron? I thought the cap hold was the problem, but I’m not too up on that.

    “Paul is under contract for two more seasons after this one.”
    Shoot. What other big name FAs are available in 2011? Or maybe via trade for Jeffries’ expiring?

  78. Z-man

    d-mar,
    Agreed on Noah v. Lee. I would probably trade Jeffries for Noah, though… if the $$$ was right.

  79. Frank O.

    d-mar:
    I have been watching Noah lately and I don’t like his game.
    He is a better rebounder and shot blocker, by far, but he seems a bit lost lately.
    Now, he’s not as versatile as Jeffries is, and he’s only slightly more effective offensively.
    I think it would depend on the situation.
    For this Knicks team, Jeffries is a better fit because on any given night he can defend the best offensive player at four different positions.
    Noah simply isn’t as mobile.

  80. Frank O.

    League pass is fantastic.
    switching from game to game.
    great night to Dallas against spurs, Phoenix and Miami.

    I simply love Phoenix’s game. Stoudamire is simply a force tonight…so far. A real shot blocking threat. But their bench is as weak as advertised, altho they have been fairly solid tonight. I suspect that is more about Miami not being very good rather than Suns bench being any good at all.
    Miami has got almost nothing beyond Wade. Haslem is hit or miss. O’Neil has seen better days. After that, not much .

    And friggin Frye…he’s become a player. A center who plays on the 3 line. Very tough to match up for opposing centers. especially for older guys like O’neil. Can’t get out there anymore.

    Spurs and Dallas really hate each other. Great grinding game.

  81. Frank O.

    Patience.

    Watching McDyess, Frye, thinking about Ariza.
    Not a patient franchise for a lot of years now…

  82. Mulligan

    Because of the difference in the talent levels of the two conferences, it’s now plausible for the Knicks’ pick to be lower than Utah’s own pick. Crazy! Who would have predicted that a month ago?

  83. Frank O.

    Man, the refs gave Miami that game.
    Some horrible calls against the suns. Wade travelled at least three times I saw, and there were several other ridiculous non-called travels that let to fouls and points.
    And they were at Phoenix…

    Is it just me or has officiating gotten weird lately…?

  84. rama

    I don’t know how to look for my old posts specifically, but I proposed something like Lee and Curry for Noah, Brad Miller, and filler. The reason remains 1) offload Eddy to acquire expiring deals and therefore room to sign two max FAs, and 2) acquire a good-rebounding defensively oriented 5 to retain in the middle after Lee’s gone. Because WE CAN’T SIGN LEE AND A MAX FA RIGHT NOW.

    I’m not sure why people don’t understand this. WE CANNOT SIGN TWO MAX FAs. If the cap is close to what Stern predicted, we will also lose DLee. Meaning…

    WE MUST UNLOAD CURRY/JEFFRIES!!

  85. rohank

    Excerpt from Ian Thomson’s article on si.com:

    Isn’t the best option for the Knicks Carmelo Anthony in 2011? I don’t think they have a shot at any of the big guns this year, but Anthony seems like a perfect fit. The Nuggets will be an older team. Melo is an East Coast guy. And most importantly, I think he has a big enough chip on his shoulder to try to take the challenge of resurrecting the Knicks. This will give him the opportunity to establish himself as one of the five best players in the league, and give the Knicks their best scorer since Bernard King.
    – J.T., Saratoga Springs, N.Y.

    That’s a good question. The Knicks are viewing free agency as a two-year project, with cap space to spend both this summer and 2011 when Anthony can exercise his option to become a free agent. If the Knicks fail to land a big name this summer, look for them to pursue solid moves to improve the team while leaving enough space to acquire Anthony or another star the following year. This is not going to be an all-or-nothing summer for them.

  86. Travis Knight Rider

    One thing to consider when looking at Noah is that his head coach is probably the worst in the league.

  87. astrasberg

    Didn’t see this mentioned yet, but ESPN True Hoop did a little piece about Jeffries. Basically called him the MVP of the Bobcats game, and said he was the key to the Knicks defense even though his contributions don’t show up in the stat sheet:

    http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/12132/watch-jared-jeffries

    What’s most interesting me is, this is the player Isaiah thought he was getting when he signed him. But it’s taken D’Antoni to get him to that level. I haven’t focused on Jeffries like the writer did, but I wonder if D’Antoni is being as innovative with his defense as he was with his offense.

  88. Owen

    “Also: what happened to Owen and Caleb? ”

    I am here. Was out of the country and then pretty sick with the flu everyone seems to have. Happy New Year to all…

    Don’t even know what to do with myself now that the Knicks are playing decently. I have to agree with Mike, Pelton really did kill it. IT’s interesting to see how a slower pace works better with these players, apparently…

    Re Jeffries, I think that’s a pretty decent line from him the other night but Abbot’s point is well taken that it doesn’t capture the extent of his impact. A Win Score of 12.5 is nothing to sneeze at. Noah is a ton better than Jeffries though.

    I don’t want Anthony. Still very overrated. Lebron and Paul are the only two guys worth having at a max contract we could reasonably get, in my book…

  89. J Weezy

    “I don’t want Anthony. Still very overrated. Lebron and Paul are the only two guys worth having at a max contract we could reasonably get, in my book”

    So you wouldn’t sign dwight howard to a max contract if he were to be entering free agency this summer? I think its almost a proven fact in the NBA that teams with dominant big men fare much better than teams without dominant big men expect for maybe a couple of exceptions. I believe that Howard will win championships in his career, possibly even one with the Magic.

  90. nicos

    “Noah is a ton better than Jeffries though”

    All things being equal definitely, but for this Knicks team, no. Jeffries’ flexibility has been absolutely essential to the Knick’s defensive turnaround. In fairness to Jeffries, he’s probably been capable of this all along. I think the biggest difference between this year and years past is probably Gallo- his range has allowed the Knicks to keep the floor spaced enough to hide Jeffries offensive ineptitude. Teams still cheat off Jeffries all the time but the way Knicks are able to spread the floor means that Jeffries’ guy often has too much ground to make up to be effective.
    And on a side note- given how consistent the Knicks are at getting to their spots in their half-court offense, why is it that they seem incapable of running a proper three-on-two break?

  91. david

    As someone who loves trade machine (what a great time suck), I’ve been playing around a bit with trades between us and New Orleans.

    It strikes me that the knicks and the hornets could solve a bunch of each other’s problems….

    Jeffries/Curry for Peja plus $4 plus in expiring contacts gives us an extra $3M in space this off-season, while it saves them dollars this year (the 15% difference allowed) plus gives them two expiring deals to trade next season (and they aren’t coming under the cap this year anyway). On top of it, if anything can save Peja, it is coming off the bench in a D’Antoni system.

    The only harm I can see to the Knicks is that it would be harder to trade Peja as an expiring next season, but we’d probably just let him expire and use the cap space after next season….

Comments are closed.