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Tuesday, September 23, 2014

2010 Game Preview and Thread:Hawks at Knicks

Preview and Game thread.

Knicks (1-7) host the Hawks (5-2)

This one has to be quick since I am half watching my oldest boy bathe, and I have to read Green Eggs and Ham to the youngest right at tip off!  Parenting is great.

You can check the four factors for the Hawks here and the Knicks here. Actually, just skip the Knicks, it’ll just make you sad.

I expect the Knicks will have problems with this one (surprise).  The Hawks come to MSG ranked 5th in offensive efficiency (112.3) and 13th in eFG% (50.8).  This puts the team in great shape to attack the Knicks’ disjointed and sporadic defense that is 21st in defensive efficiency (108.5) and 26th in defensive eFG% (53.2).   The Hawk defense isnt great as they rank 16th in defensive efficiency (107.3) and defensive eFG% (49.7), but they are much better in that area than the Knicks.

What to watch for:  I think the athletes on the Hawk front line are going to feast on the Knicks.  Josh Smith (57.3 eFG% and 59.2 TS%) and Al Horford (50. eFG% and 54.0 TS%) will command a very good defensive effort on the part of the Knicks.  I am not sure the Knicks front line is up to it.

What to watch for 2:  Al Harrington v. Jamal Crawford.  Yeah I know they wont D each other (niether of them play D).  But I do wonder which of them will put more focus on showing up the old team.  I think Al will try harder (if you think his play is selfish, just watch the game tape when he suits up against an old team) to show ATL what is lost than Jamal will.  Oh, well that means even more selfish play on offense.

What to watch for 3: Johnson v. Hughes.  Hughes has played well following two DNP-CD’s in the first two games.  Hughes has used a size advantage to some success early on.  That advantage is gone against Joe Johnson.  I am curious to see how (if) Hughes will adjust.

Well Green Eggs and Ham awaits.  Happy Birthday Mrs. K. and to any Veteran reading this or a family member of a Vet, thank you for your service to this country.

98 comments on “2010 Game Preview and Thread:Hawks at Knicks

  1. Thomas B. Post author

    I wish D’Antoni would tell me about changes to the starting line up before I start my previews. So much for Hughes v. Johnson.

  2. Robert Silverman

    Chandler’s not bad, just not doing much either way. He’s looked slow & lethargic (like he has most of the season)

  3. David Crockett

    Gorky it was nice.

    Gallo sped past Marvin Williams, who I think was surprised. He’s such a long strider, deceptively quick.

  4. Gorky

    Listening to the Knicks is better than watching them, because you don’t actually have to watch the Knicks play basketball.

  5. Gorky

    you know what I love? Al Harrington’s spin move. it’s unstoppable. too bad he loves to shoot bad shots instead.

  6. Robert Silverman

    “Gallo sped past Marvin Williams, who I think was surprised. He’s such a long strider, deceptively quick.”

    I think it’s because he’s all elbows and knees out there, like Dontrelle Willis when he pitches so he appears to be flailing/awkward/slow.

  7. Brian Cronin

    It’s interesting to see Curry, but for crying out loud, MSG, there’s a game on! Show the game!

  8. Brian Cronin

    I think Gallo slept with all of the other Knicks’ wives.

    Four players touched the ball before an ugly miss from the outside with the shot clock running down, and Gallo was not one of them.

  9. Brian Cronin

    Duhon drives right to the basket, but figures he’d probably brick the layup, passes to Harrington for an ugly miss from three.

    But the Knicks get the ball back!

  10. Z

    So Toney Douglas got the start, but not instead of Duhon?!

    Interesting.

    Seemed to work well, judging by the fact they’re not down 20 in the first quarter.

  11. Brian Cronin

    I think they like Duhon’s D on Bibby, and think Douglass was their best shot on Johnson.

    Seems like a good call so far.

    Chandler hit a three! So many things going right at the moment. They should only lose by 7!

  12. David Crockett

    Everyone is hitting whatever they throw up (not sustainable), but the passing has been pretty good (sustainable).

    Knicks by 13.

  13. David Crockett

    That little pirouette shot by Lee was ridiculous.

    I’m loving the blocks, deflections, and steals.

    Great half.

  14. cav0011

    gallo probably slept with all thier wives and moms and sisters. I also think dantoni is being really strange with him. Anyhow letting the hawks climb back in before half was a really good plan.

  15. cav0011

    looking at the box score at half. Would anyone be shocked if I told you the 3 lowest +/- are Duhon, Chandler, Harrington…. in that order. (Duhon has the worst)

  16. Brian Cronin

    gallo probably slept with all thier wives and moms and sisters.

    And their grandmothers, that sicko!

  17. daJudge

    Great game so far, except Duhon. Hey, is there a stat that measures open outside shot fg%? Just wondering.

  18. cav0011

    I dont think duhon has hit more then 20 shots the whole year. That includes games played at the end of the 08-09 season also.

  19. Brian Cronin

    I love Clyde’s reaction to Breen talking about how Duhon was the “first guy off the bench to congratulate Douglas” the other night. He was sort of like, “Yeah, so?”

  20. Brian Cronin

    Bad pass by Lee (really bad) and an even worse foul on the other side of the court.

    Gallo sits down for some reason.

  21. cav0011

    the benching of gallo has to be for the back right? there is nothing else I can think of besides minute limiting to keep the back feeling good.

  22. Z

    Lee’s rebounding has actually been down a lot in the last 4 games: 6, 7, 7, and now he’s on pace for 3 tonight. Explanation??

  23. Brian Cronin

    the benching of gallo has to be for the back right? there is nothing else I can think of besides minute limiting to keep the back feeling good.

    Well, to be honest, if no one is going to pass to him, I guess he really isn’t all that helpful out there.

    That, of course, should not be his problem, but his teammates’.

  24. cav0011

    true… I still feel much more like paying attention when gallo is in…. at least i have dougie still.

  25. Gorky

    Yeah, maybe Gallo’s minutes are under strict control.

    He’s laying 30.6 mins, +/- 5.6 mins. I guess not then.

  26. TDM

    I cant’ believe I’m typing this, but why doesn’t D’Antoni start Toney in the backcourt with . . . Hughes. I know crazy, but in comparison to Duhon, Hughes has been distributing the ball and has been the more consistent player.

    “Anyhow letting the hawks climb back in before half was a really good plan.”

    Maybe Mike D was thinking about “Seabiscuit” when his jockey let War Admiral catch up in the back stretch.

  27. cav0011

    that sounds alot like what nash plays in pho actually. I read they try to keep him around 30-35 for the back thing.

  28. cav0011

    haha seabiscuit. I really feel that there is some sort of trick dantoni and walsh are doing but im just to stupid to figure it out.

  29. Z

    Jeffries has the worst hands in the league, hands down (NPI).

    I’ve never seen him catch a ball–

    Bat at it, yes, but that doesn’t do much good when it’s passed to you.

  30. tastycakes

    I love the Knickname “Jeffrightened.” Way to handle that transition dish, JJ! Worst Knick ever?

  31. Thomas B. Post author

    “Al Horford (50. eFG% and 54.0 TS%) will command a very good defensive effort on the part of the Knicks. I am not sure the Knicks front line is up to it.”

    Sigh. Its hard being right all the time.

  32. SJK

    We should just shut down Jeffries. It’s not like hes going to do anything for us, and I think the more he plays the worse he gets. No way we can trade him. Just cut our losses

  33. David Crockett

    Thomas B.

    You have my sympathies.

    Some of those first half steals were fool’s gold. The Knicks have been reaching and gambling so much in the 2nd half, and consistently out of position.

    Atlanta hit a few contested shots, but they’ve gotten a lot of wide open looks.

    Now the challenge will be to keep the guys playing D after they tried it this one time and still got blown out.

  34. Dan Panorama

    How is it possible we suck THIS bad? Were we really this bad with the same crew and no Galinari last year?

  35. David Crockett

    Atlanta *has* hit more than their fair share of 8 dribble, 3 crossover shots.

    That part has really sucked.

    Oh, and Horford abusing Lee seems like it’s becoming an annual event. Sigh.

  36. ess-dog

    Every game it seems like I’m saying:

    “Well, Speights always owns Lee”
    “Well, Bogut always owns Lee”
    “Well, Horford always owns Lee”

    Maybe Lee actually kind of er, well, sort of… sucks?

  37. Gorky

    Yeah, I agree. The only player who I might say is selfish is Harrington, and he’s always been like that. I agree that it’s probably a function of lack of talent and depth. But they did better last year with the same talent and depth?

  38. daJudge

    Z—Not much coaching tonight; oh wait, at least I’m a Giants fan; no wait, at least I’m a Mets fan, no wait, I better go to sleep. Good night all.

  39. BigBlueAL

    We could be witnessing the worst team in Knicks history. Will this team win more than 23 which I believe is the fewest wins in a season in Knicks history????

    Sadly we have witnessed the Knicks win just 23 games twice in the last 4 years and we may be heading to 3 times in 5 years yet not have a Top 5 pick to show for it. *Sigh*

  40. Z

    I’m actually missing Jamal right now… Even when he was killing us with bad shots, I kept rooting for him. This current group is hard to keep rooting for (but somehow I’ll persist!).

  41. Sandy

    favorite line the night…

    Clyde: “Crawford, not fighting over a screen again…”

    Our lack of talent is very apparent out there. We are getting nothing from Jeffries and Duhon. We are getting less than we expected from Chandler and Harrington Even with the nice additions of Hughes and Douglas, it is not enough to compensate for our lack of talent. We are also getting abused on the inside. Again, D Lee is atrocious down there. We need someone who can guarde. Milicic? Maybe Curry? Anyway, lets keep on developing the young guns.

  42. ess-dog

    Well, we got the Warriors on Friday… the only organization that’s a bigger shitstorm than ours. Maybe if we slip a little vodka into Nellie’s gatorade we can stir up the pot enough to sneak out with a W? Or they could bitch-slap us the way they did the Kahn’s group of guppies. Oy…

  43. d-mar

    Al Horford vs. NY Knicks = Moses Malone.

    On another note, I read today that Milwaukee is 2nd or 3rd in the NBA defensively ( I think they were beating Denver tonight last I saw which would make them 4-2) A team with no stars and limited talent finding a way to win with a lunatic defensive coach. I’m always the first to defend D’Antoni, but maybe if we had a coach like Skiles we would be better off. We’re supposed to be a run and gun team and we don’t even run, and our defense is putrid. If Skiles was our coach, would we be 1-8? Just askin’…..

  44. BigBlueAL

    If Skiles was our coach no big-time FA would want to come to NY to play for him next year. D’Antoni was hired with 2010 in mind not for what he could do with the crap he has to coach his first 2 seasons.

  45. Thomas B. Post author

    Wow I saw the section where Breen threw it to Al for a chat with Curry and I am awed at how thin this guy looks. I hope he also loss his disinterest in rebounding and defense. Also, if he can move a bit better, perhaps the turnover will be reduced. Maybe if he can command a few doubles, the offense could improve. And the team could make a run at a playoff spot. Wow Curry could be the answer to…oh wait, the pilot went out on the stove and the room is filling with gas. I’ll think about this again when the room airs out.

  46. d-mar

    “If Skiles was our coach no big-time FA would want to come to NY to play for him next year. D’Antoni was hired with 2010 in mind not for what he could do with the crap he has to coach his first 2 seasons”

    BBA, excellent point, I guess I was just throwing out a hypothetical. Skiles isn’t exactly what you would call “a players coach”, but he does squeeze out a lot out of a little.

    Our season has really come down to can we get Curry on the court and productive and move his contract. Then 2010 really gets interesting.

  47. BK

    >>Every game it seems like I’m saying:

    “Well, Speights always owns Lee”
    “Well, Bogut always owns Lee”
    “Well, Horford always owns Lee”

    Maybe Lee actually kind of er, well, sort of… sucks?<<

    Thank you ess-dog: anybody who had any illusions David Lee was a $10 to $12 million player should watch film of his defense this season and say…no. This "he's undersized playing against 5s!" nonsense should be put to rest by the way Horford (who no one will confuse with Shaq) completely obliterated him.

    I'm as baffled as anyone why Gallo doesn't get more touches, but part of the problem may be that the best passer on the team who could get him the ball is shooting 26 percent and doesn't deserve the playing time. Everyone else (Hughes, Douglas, Lee, etc) has good intentions, but they're not good instinctive passers and can't seem to find Gallo for looks.

    Gallo isn't helping his cause by forcing opportunities at times (his ballhandling, frankly, has disappointed me so far this season), and on defense (like most everyone else), he has a hard time keeping track of the ball and his man.

  48. BigBlueAL

    Yeah dont get me wrong I think Skiles is a pretty good coach, actually a very good coach. But again D’Antoni was hired in part to make the Knicks a more attractive place to play. I still think very highly of him as a coach and am not going to change my opinion of him because of the circumstances and roster he has to coach with this season.

  49. latke

    Food for thought: Knicks three point percentages & attempts/makes for their first 8 games. They are fourth to last in 3 point % and have more nearly double the attempts of any of the teams with lower percentages. The number in parentheses is the # of points they won/lost by.

    MIA 10/39 – .256 L (-12)
    CHA 9/36 – .250 L (-2 OT)
    PHI 14/41 – .341 L (-14 OT)
    NOH 7/23 – .301 W (+6)
    IND 7/26 – .269 L (-12)
    CLE 8/26 – .286 L (-9)
    MIL 8/15 – .533 L (-15)
    UTA 8/29 – .259 L (-2)

    overall 71/237 – 30%

    I wanted to do a correlation, and since the knicks pretty much shot the same percentage in nearly all their games, I decided to do a correlation between margin of victory/loss and three point shots attempted. The correlation is about -.106, meaning that there is a very small correlation, but a correlation nonetheless. As 3 point field goal attempts increase, the knicks lose by a larger margin.

    Now, the knicks shot fewer than average threes tonight and lost by more than their average, so that would decrease that correlation.

    I guess I’m just grasping at straws here, trying to understand what the knicks could do to improve. I’d like to do FTAs and margin of win/loss, because that would test the notion that if they go inside they have more success, but I’ll save that for a later date.

  50. latke

    And to everyone wondering how we’ve fallen so far, we are missing nate robinson. Last year he put up 17ppg, 4 rebounds, 4 steals, and most importantly, he was the guy who put some energy into a team that often looked lifeless. Even in the three games he played in, his numbers were way way down — 9ppg, 3 assists, 3 steals. What you saw out of Douglas tonight was the kind of energy we often saw out of Robinson, except Robinson came off the bench. The energy guy off the bench is key when things aren’t going well.

  51. ess-dog

    I’m sorry:

    32 points and 9 freakin’ assists for Brandon Jennings against the Nuggets???

    I’m going to go drink a fifth of burbon now.

  52. jon abbey

    “I guess I’m just grasping at straws here, trying to understand what the knicks could do to improve. ”

    well, they could occasionally move on offense, instead of 3-4 guys constantly standing on the perimeter, waiting for the ball. AND THEY COULD GET GALLINARI THE BALL MORE.

  53. SJK

    Okay, maybe I’m crazy but let’s say Curry returns to how he was playing (at least on offense) before Zach Randolph came. If he commands a presence down low, teams will collapse on him, leaving more space for Danilo/Douglas/whoever to shoot and/or penetrate. It could really open up the offense. What if we can’t trade him for whatever reason, would it really be the worst thing in the world to keep him. I mean he was pretty good before he got fat… A core of Douglas, Chandler, Galinari, Lee, and Curry might be enough to lure LeBron or DWade… just speculating

  54. Thomas B. Post author

    SJK,

    I thought the same, then I realized the room was filling with gas. Check your pilot light.

  55. tastycakes

    “I think the sheer # of guys playing for a contract may be hurting the team.”

    I agree with Gorky. It’s not that they are playing selfishly, it is that they are playing like they don’t give a shit.

    If you know that you are not a serious part of the franchise’s plans *past this year*, what is your incentive? Possibly you are playing for a contract somewhere else, but you don’t believe the team as constructed can win anything, and you don’t feel wanted.

    In order to succeed in the NBA, a team has to be coherent and focused and driven.

    I’ve said it before: the Knicks have zero toughness and zero leadership. It’s just a bunch of guys playing ball.

    Some other team may be able to steal D Lee next year for a relatively modest contract. He’s certainly not performing up to the level his contract demands would indicate he deserves. Can’t imagine him being here next year.

  56. Ted Nelson

    What a bad team… Duhon? What is going on?
    You guys are right that Lee’s defense is a major problem. I really don’t get D’Antoni sometimes. They desperately need inside defense, so they play the one guy on their entire roster who might, possibly, maybe, a little bit give it to them for 2 minutes… In D’Antoni’s defense, if the Knicks could have made more than 21% of their 3s (or, you know, played basketball in the 2nd half) this would have been a game.
    Siked about Douglas; although, only 1 FTA on 19 FGAs and 2 assists all game makes me wonder if he is Wilson Chandler’s smaller clone or the Knicks “PG of the future…”
    Can’t wait to see more of Landry. Siked that the Knicks got a hard-worker and someone from the same genetic line as Carl Landry. On the other hand, the fact that they signed another NBA players’ brother stinks of bad, old school decision making, the classic Steve Kerr move.

    “the benching of gallo has to be for the back right? there is nothing else I can think of besides minute limiting to keep the back feeling good.”

    There’s that $6 mill in cap space that getting Jeffries traded could create. Seriously, though, the back is probably part of it. He’s still playing decent minutes at 21, though.

    “We should just shut down Jeffries. It’s not like hes going to do anything for us, and I think the more he plays the worse he gets. No way we can trade him. Just cut our losses”

    I don’t necessarily disagree that all else equal they should bench him, but if he can keep hitting 33% from downtown (which he is through 9 attempts) and blocking a shot per game (which, again, he is) then maybe he can be traded. It’s a small sample size, but if he keeps it up for a month or two and tightens up other aspects of his game then maybe he can be sold as a versatile defensive stopper who can hit the open 3. The TOs are ridiculous, but as we Knicks fans know not all NBA GMs use logic when acquiring players. If there’s any chance of him being traded I don’t mind him getting 18 mpg.

    “I’m actually missing Jamal right now…”

    I am not.

    “Well, we got the Warriors on Friday… the only organization that’s a bigger shitstorm than ours.”

    Not far off, but I’ll take Memphis.

  57. Ted Nelson

    What a bad team… Duhon? What is going on?
    You guys are right that Lee’s defense is a major problem. I really don’t get D’Antoni sometimes. They desperately need inside defense, so they play the one guy on their entire roster who might, possibly, maybe, a little bit give it to them for 2 minutes… In D’Antoni’s defense, if the Knicks could have made more than 21% of their 3s (or, you know, played basketball in the 2nd half) this would have been a game.
    Siked about Douglas; although, only 1 FTA on 19 FGAs and 2 assists all game makes me wonder if he is Wilson Chandler’s smaller clone or the Knicks “PG of the future…”
    Can’t wait to see more of Landry. Siked that the Knicks got a hard-worker and someone from the same genetic line as Carl Landry. On the other hand, the fact that they signed another NBA players’ brother stinks of bad, old school decision making, the classic Steve Kerr move.

    “the benching of gallo has to be for the back right? there is nothing else I can think of besides minute limiting to keep the back feeling good.”

    There’s that $6 mill in cap space that getting Jeffries traded could create. Seriously, though, the back is probably part of it. He’s still playing decent minutes at 21, though.

    “We should just shut down Jeffries. It’s not like hes going to do anything for us, and I think the more he plays the worse he gets. No way we can trade him. Just cut our losses”

    I don’t necessarily disagree that all else equal they should bench him, but if he can keep hitting 33% from downtown (which he is through 9 attempts) and blocking a shot per game (which, again, he is) then maybe he can be traded. It’s a small sample size, but if he keeps it up for a month or two and tightens up other aspects of his game then maybe he can be sold as a versatile defensive stopper who can hit the open 3. The TOs are ridiculous, but as we Knicks fans know not all NBA GMs use logic when acquiring players. If there’s any chance of him being traded I don’t mind him getting 18 mpg.

    “I’m actually missing Jamal right now…”

    I am not.

    “Well, we got the Warriors on Friday… the only organization that’s a bigger shitstorm than ours.”

    Not far off, but I’ll take Memphis.

  58. Ted Nelson

    tastycakes,

    Interesting point. At first I was thinking “they’ve got millions of incentives…” but you go on to explain your point well.

    d-mar and BBA,

    Interesting back and forth re: Skiles. I was pulling for first Skiles and then Avery Johnson as Knicks coach, personally.
    I understand the D’Antoni attracts FAs logic, but find it flawed:
    1. I think winning tends to attract FAs more than anything besides money (which the Knicks can’t offer).
    2. Two seasons is long enough for the magic of the D’Antoni system to wear off and people to realize that it’s a bunch of crap. That roster in Phoenix was just built to run and D’Antoni allowed them to. The Suns are running again after jettisoning Shaq and despite his best efforts to sabotage himself Kerr has got them winning again. You put solid NBA players around Nash and Amare and let them run and good things will happen. It’s something like having Ewing and Oakley and deciding to be a slow, physical, defensive-minded team… duh. And in both cases the NBA rules were bent towards that style of play at that time.
    On the other hand, the silly notion that D’Antoni’s system somehow makes everything better has been exposed. It’s ok to completely give up on the offensive boards when you make a lot of shots (which Phoenix did), but not when you miss a lot of shots (which the Knicks do… and the Knicks are listed as last in ORebing on the stats page as of this writing). Telling talented, smart basketball players (which Phoenix mostly had in their rotation) with a great PG orchestrating things to take the first decent shot is not the same as telling untalented, dumb players (which the Knicks mostly have) to take the first shot they get. Telling a few guys to stand around with and exceptional playmaker at the point (Nash) and other very good passers for their positions (Johnson, Diaw, Hill…) is different from telling them to stand around with a mediocre PG and few other passers. Playing an undersized 4 is ok when he can defend, rebound, and finish around the basket at an All-Star level, but not ok when you’ve got a bunch of scrubs. Saying it is not your job to teach young players is ok when you have a talented veteran team, but not when you have a crappy team with some intriguing young talent.

    Long story short… The Knicks could use someone who will over-coach (putting set plays in place and literally tell them where to be at all times and what to do)… They need someone who will ride them on D. They need a center. Skiles could be a great coach for the Knicks. They don’t have the defensive talent to be #1, but had they targeted defensive talent effectively and bought into Skiles system for a whole season already I don’t think they’d be 1-8…

    D’ANTONI LOOKS LIKE THE WORST POSSIBLE COACH FOR THE KNICKS RIGHT NOW… I can only hope he still has enough luster left at the end of the season to attract a great FA. Remember that Larry Brown was coming off back-to-back Finals appearances when he came to the Knicks and lost all credibility as an NBA coach in just one season.

    Went off on a tangent there, but basically I think D’Antoni is doing an inexcusably poor job coaching this team.

    By the way, B-R doesn’t have tonight’s game up as I write this, but the Bucks are listed as THE BEST defense in the NBA. They were also the 28th offense, so a .500 finish sounds like a starting point (they probably regress to the mean on both counts, but the imbalance is clear).

  59. BigBlueAL

    I dont see Douglas as a PG at all to be honest. I do think he is a perfect backcourt mate for a SG who can handle and pass the ball like a Joe Johnson or obviously Lebron. Douglas really pressures the opposing PG on D which is nice to see and can score. He has a feistiness to his game which is great. I think he and Hughes should start in the backcourt and Nate come off the bench. At this point Duhon should be lucky to even get garbage minutes.

    Ted one thing that I love about D’Antoni which I know is totally meaningless is listening to his press conferences because he sounds like he really knows what he is doing. Its a breath of fresh air from listening to the garbage that Isiah spoke which made it sound like he had never coached a game before in his life, all he would do is remind everyone how he grew up in the mean streets of Chicago and how good his Pistons teams were. Before that Larry Brown was just negative all the time and Herb Williams, Lenny Wilkins and especially Don Chaney just sounded like guys who didnt have a clue.

    I definitely miss the days of the great quotes Jeff Van Gundy and Pat Riley used to deliver on a daily basis. BTW again I know this criteria is absolutely meaningless in evaluating a coach but I enjoy listening to D’Antoni because he does sound like a very smart basketball coach, unfortunately again his team freakin sucks and he has what might be the lowest basketball IQ bunch of players in NBA history.

  60. d-mar

    In D’Antoni’s press conference last night, when asked about Duhon, he didn’t exactly give a ringing endorsement. He would normally say “He’s a good player, he’ll snap out of it” but instead he looked exasperated and at a loss to explain the depths to which Duhon has fallen. I think you may see Duhon as a DNP when Nate comes back.

    Knicks next 3 games are GS, Indy and Nets, with a ton of off days in between. If they are to salvage anything from this dreadful season, now would be the time to start. Oh, sorry, my rose colored glasses just fell off my head, 1-11 is realistic.

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