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	<title>Comments on: 2010 Game Preview and Thread: Knicks v Raptors</title>
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		<title>By: StevenU</title>
		<link>http://KnickerBlogger.Net/2010-game-preview-and-thread-knicks-v-raptors/#comment-285698</link>
		<dc:creator>StevenU</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jan 2010 16:02:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.knickerblogger.net/?p=3066#comment-285698</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ted and Z-you both make good points re the whole max salary thing. My point is that I think as recently as this past offseason teams were still living in a fantasy land that will actually change this coming season (even though, admittedly, to this point it has not)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ted and Z-you both make good points re the whole max salary thing. My point is that I think as recently as this past offseason teams were still living in a fantasy land that will actually change this coming season (even though, admittedly, to this point it has not)</p>
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		<title>By: Ted Nelson</title>
		<link>http://KnickerBlogger.Net/2010-game-preview-and-thread-knicks-v-raptors/#comment-285617</link>
		<dc:creator>Ted Nelson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Jan 2010 01:02:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.knickerblogger.net/?p=3066#comment-285617</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think Gasol and Pierce, at least, definitely did deserve max deals. They are great &quot;Robins&quot; on Champions, but have also been &quot;Batmen&quot; on solid playoff teams.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Gasol and Pierce, at least, definitely did deserve max deals. They are great &#8220;Robins&#8221; on Champions, but have also been &#8220;Batmen&#8221; on solid playoff teams.</p>
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		<title>By: Z</title>
		<link>http://KnickerBlogger.Net/2010-game-preview-and-thread-knicks-v-raptors/#comment-285610</link>
		<dc:creator>Z</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Jan 2010 00:13:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.knickerblogger.net/?p=3066#comment-285610</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;a max player-imo-is a player you build a team around. A player who can be the best player on a championship caliber team. I think Chris Bosh is...better suited to be Robin than Batman. And those guys do not deserve max money.&quot;

If Robin played in the NBA, he&#039;d command max money, sissy tights and all. 

Look at the Robins out there: Rashard Lewis, signed to a max deal to be Howard&#039;s side kick. Pau Gasol, making max money as Kobe&#039;s assistant. In Boston there are two Robins making more money than Batman. These are the three teams that have played in the finals over the past two years.

These &quot;second best players&quot; may not deserve max contracts, but they get them, and I don&#039;t think Orlando, Boston, or LA regrets paying them top dollar.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;a max player-imo-is a player you build a team around. A player who can be the best player on a championship caliber team. I think Chris Bosh is&#8230;better suited to be Robin than Batman. And those guys do not deserve max money.&#8221;</p>
<p>If Robin played in the NBA, he&#8217;d command max money, sissy tights and all. </p>
<p>Look at the Robins out there: Rashard Lewis, signed to a max deal to be Howard&#8217;s side kick. Pau Gasol, making max money as Kobe&#8217;s assistant. In Boston there are two Robins making more money than Batman. These are the three teams that have played in the finals over the past two years.</p>
<p>These &#8220;second best players&#8221; may not deserve max contracts, but they get them, and I don&#8217;t think Orlando, Boston, or LA regrets paying them top dollar.</p>
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		<title>By: Ted Nelson</title>
		<link>http://KnickerBlogger.Net/2010-game-preview-and-thread-knicks-v-raptors/#comment-285609</link>
		<dc:creator>Ted Nelson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Jan 2010 00:08:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.knickerblogger.net/?p=3066#comment-285609</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;@ Ted-I love Gallo but he is not a superior player to Bargnani. &quot;

Gallo is not better than Bargnani because of his upside. He&#039;s better because of his production. They are both primarily scorers, and Gallo is a much better scorer:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&amp;sum=1&amp;p1=bargnan01&amp;y1=2010&amp;p2=gallida01&amp;y2=2010
One 9-13 game doesn&#039;t change that. Gallo&#039;s career TS% is 54 basis points higher. 

Lee v. Bosh:
Lee has at least made it a question worth asking and it depends on the money both will make, but I have a hard time seeing any argument that Bosh is not a superior player by a pretty wide margin, i.e. on a different level:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&amp;sum=0&amp;p1=boshch01&amp;y1=2010&amp;p2=leeda02&amp;y2=2010

In this league Bosh IS a max player, period. There is no doubt he will get the max. Not even a question. He&#039;s one of the best offensive bigmen in the game. Clearly he&#039;s not the best player in the league, not one of the best 5 even, but under the NBA&#039;s salary structure the guy deserves a max contract. A lot less deserving players have gotten max contracts. A LOT.

&quot;we could debate the importance of defense where I think the gap IS huge&quot;

I don&#039;t think the gap on defense is as big as on offense. 

&quot;z- a max player-imo-is a player you build a team around. A player who can be the best player on a championship caliber team.&quot;

A max player is by definition a guy who gets the max salary. The CBA is such that great players are underpaid (good players are often overpaid, but I don&#039;t think that&#039;s the CBA&#039;s fault). Call it a &quot;championship caliber franchise player&quot; if that&#039;s what you mean. If there were no max salary LeBron, Wade, Paul, Howard... those guys could make well over 20 mill per. If there were no cap at all they might get 50 mill per or something ridiculous like that.

&quot;I think the fact that the cap is going down for the first time ever, signals the end of an era.&quot;

I think it signals that we are in the biggest recession since the great depression... Even in that recession with the cap going down guys like Hedo and Gordon and Bargnani got paid. 

&quot;And those guys do not deserve max money&quot;

The market seems to disagree with you. A guy like Bosh doesn&#039;t make you a contender without some other really strong players, but if you put a half decent team around him you&#039;re in the playoffs every year. As a fan of a team that hasn&#039;t made the playoffs in 6 years, I can appreciate the value in that. 

&quot;I seriously doubt Joe Johnson, for example will get the $60 over 4 he turned down.&quot;

I think he will. I don&#039;t think he&#039;s as valuable as Bosh, though... he&#039;s arguably not the best player on his own team.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;@ Ted-I love Gallo but he is not a superior player to Bargnani. &#8221;</p>
<p>Gallo is not better than Bargnani because of his upside. He&#8217;s better because of his production. They are both primarily scorers, and Gallo is a much better scorer:<br />
<a href="http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&#038;sum=1&#038;p1=bargnan01&#038;y1=2010&#038;p2=gallida01&#038;y2=2010" rel="nofollow">http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&#038;sum=1&#038;p1=bargnan01&#038;y1=2010&#038;p2=gallida01&#038;y2=2010</a><br />
One 9-13 game doesn&#8217;t change that. Gallo&#8217;s career TS% is 54 basis points higher. </p>
<p>Lee v. Bosh:<br />
Lee has at least made it a question worth asking and it depends on the money both will make, but I have a hard time seeing any argument that Bosh is not a superior player by a pretty wide margin, i.e. on a different level:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&#038;sum=0&#038;p1=boshch01&#038;y1=2010&#038;p2=leeda02&#038;y2=2010" rel="nofollow">http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&#038;sum=0&#038;p1=boshch01&#038;y1=2010&#038;p2=leeda02&#038;y2=2010</a></p>
<p>In this league Bosh IS a max player, period. There is no doubt he will get the max. Not even a question. He&#8217;s one of the best offensive bigmen in the game. Clearly he&#8217;s not the best player in the league, not one of the best 5 even, but under the NBA&#8217;s salary structure the guy deserves a max contract. A lot less deserving players have gotten max contracts. A LOT.</p>
<p>&#8220;we could debate the importance of defense where I think the gap IS huge&#8221;</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think the gap on defense is as big as on offense. </p>
<p>&#8220;z- a max player-imo-is a player you build a team around. A player who can be the best player on a championship caliber team.&#8221;</p>
<p>A max player is by definition a guy who gets the max salary. The CBA is such that great players are underpaid (good players are often overpaid, but I don&#8217;t think that&#8217;s the CBA&#8217;s fault). Call it a &#8220;championship caliber franchise player&#8221; if that&#8217;s what you mean. If there were no max salary LeBron, Wade, Paul, Howard&#8230; those guys could make well over 20 mill per. If there were no cap at all they might get 50 mill per or something ridiculous like that.</p>
<p>&#8220;I think the fact that the cap is going down for the first time ever, signals the end of an era.&#8221;</p>
<p>I think it signals that we are in the biggest recession since the great depression&#8230; Even in that recession with the cap going down guys like Hedo and Gordon and Bargnani got paid. </p>
<p>&#8220;And those guys do not deserve max money&#8221;</p>
<p>The market seems to disagree with you. A guy like Bosh doesn&#8217;t make you a contender without some other really strong players, but if you put a half decent team around him you&#8217;re in the playoffs every year. As a fan of a team that hasn&#8217;t made the playoffs in 6 years, I can appreciate the value in that. </p>
<p>&#8220;I seriously doubt Joe Johnson, for example will get the $60 over 4 he turned down.&#8221;</p>
<p>I think he will. I don&#8217;t think he&#8217;s as valuable as Bosh, though&#8230; he&#8217;s arguably not the best player on his own team.</p>
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		<title>By: StevenU</title>
		<link>http://KnickerBlogger.Net/2010-game-preview-and-thread-knicks-v-raptors/#comment-285608</link>
		<dc:creator>StevenU</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Jan 2010 21:04:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.knickerblogger.net/?p=3066#comment-285608</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[d-mar-we could debate the importance of defense where I think the gap IS huge, but overall I think we agree-your point is totally valid-as long as we agree that Bosh is the superior player. If I had a choice between DLee at say 9 per or Bosh at 16 per-I&#039;d take DLee in an instant, if anything I think they may both be over valued right now.
z- a max player-imo-is a player you build a team around. A player who can be the best player on a championship caliber team. I think Chris Bosh is a very good player. My real point is that there are very few players who deserve max money. I think the fact that the cap is going down for the first time ever, signals the end of an era. Players like Monta Ellis, Andres Biedrins, Hedo Turkoglu, Ben Gordon-etc-are wildly overpaid and I just do not think that will continue in the same manner.
 The real max players are a short list: DWade, The King, Howard, Durant, Kobe, Paul, and Deron Williams-and maybe Melo, Dirk (borderline at best) and Duncan (on the decline). After those few, I really do not see any. I am not knocking Bosh-in a group with say Amar&#039;e and Joe Johnson-guys better suited to be Robin than Batman. And those guys do not deserve max money. I seriously doubt Joe Johnson, for example will get the $60 over 4 he turned down.
p.s @ z-if the Raps keep Bosh and sign a max FA in addition-I will buy you drinks-and write a lengthy piece about how right you were...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>d-mar-we could debate the importance of defense where I think the gap IS huge, but overall I think we agree-your point is totally valid-as long as we agree that Bosh is the superior player. If I had a choice between DLee at say 9 per or Bosh at 16 per-I&#8217;d take DLee in an instant, if anything I think they may both be over valued right now.<br />
z- a max player-imo-is a player you build a team around. A player who can be the best player on a championship caliber team. I think Chris Bosh is a very good player. My real point is that there are very few players who deserve max money. I think the fact that the cap is going down for the first time ever, signals the end of an era. Players like Monta Ellis, Andres Biedrins, Hedo Turkoglu, Ben Gordon-etc-are wildly overpaid and I just do not think that will continue in the same manner.<br />
 The real max players are a short list: DWade, The King, Howard, Durant, Kobe, Paul, and Deron Williams-and maybe Melo, Dirk (borderline at best) and Duncan (on the decline). After those few, I really do not see any. I am not knocking Bosh-in a group with say Amar&#8217;e and Joe Johnson-guys better suited to be Robin than Batman. And those guys do not deserve max money. I seriously doubt Joe Johnson, for example will get the $60 over 4 he turned down.<br />
p.s @ z-if the Raps keep Bosh and sign a max FA in addition-I will buy you drinks-and write a lengthy piece about how right you were&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: latke</title>
		<link>http://KnickerBlogger.Net/2010-game-preview-and-thread-knicks-v-raptors/#comment-285607</link>
		<dc:creator>latke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Jan 2010 20:42:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.knickerblogger.net/?p=3066#comment-285607</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The Latke guarantee: If the knicks trade Duhon or Harrington, no matter what they get back, they will go on a real winning streak.  If not, they will miss the playoffs.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Latke guarantee: If the knicks trade Duhon or Harrington, no matter what they get back, they will go on a real winning streak.  If not, they will miss the playoffs.</p>
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		<title>By: Z</title>
		<link>http://KnickerBlogger.Net/2010-game-preview-and-thread-knicks-v-raptors/#comment-285606</link>
		<dc:creator>Z</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Jan 2010 20:12:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.knickerblogger.net/?p=3066#comment-285606</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;I do not for example think that Bosh is a “max” player.&quot;

I hear this a lot, and I assume this statement is based on productivity. That for a &quot;superstar&quot; he doesn&#039;t measure up statistically to the truly elite players in the league.

But in the case of Bosh, isn&#039;t it possible that his perceived value IS his real value? That he is worth max money because his presence on a team is enough to convince another, truly elite player, to sign with the team in the off-season. He may not deliver as well on the court as his salary would dictate, but he could, theoretically, deliver a second superstar to a team that has enough cap space to afford two max players this summer.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I do not for example think that Bosh is a “max” player.&#8221;</p>
<p>I hear this a lot, and I assume this statement is based on productivity. That for a &#8220;superstar&#8221; he doesn&#8217;t measure up statistically to the truly elite players in the league.</p>
<p>But in the case of Bosh, isn&#8217;t it possible that his perceived value IS his real value? That he is worth max money because his presence on a team is enough to convince another, truly elite player, to sign with the team in the off-season. He may not deliver as well on the court as his salary would dictate, but he could, theoretically, deliver a second superstar to a team that has enough cap space to afford two max players this summer.</p>
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		<title>By: d-mar</title>
		<link>http://KnickerBlogger.Net/2010-game-preview-and-thread-knicks-v-raptors/#comment-285605</link>
		<dc:creator>d-mar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Jan 2010 19:17:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.knickerblogger.net/?p=3066#comment-285605</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Steven U - I&#039;m not going to argue that Bosh is a better player than Lee, it&#039;s just when you say &quot;not on the same level&quot; that implies a much larger gap than I think there is. I don&#039;t think anyone viewed this game as a &quot;who&#039;s better - Bosh or Lee?&quot; referendum, so I&#039;m not exactly sure whose point you&#039;re refuting?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steven U &#8211; I&#8217;m not going to argue that Bosh is a better player than Lee, it&#8217;s just when you say &#8220;not on the same level&#8221; that implies a much larger gap than I think there is. I don&#8217;t think anyone viewed this game as a &#8220;who&#8217;s better &#8211; Bosh or Lee?&#8221; referendum, so I&#8217;m not exactly sure whose point you&#8217;re refuting?</p>
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		<title>By: StevenU</title>
		<link>http://KnickerBlogger.Net/2010-game-preview-and-thread-knicks-v-raptors/#comment-285604</link>
		<dc:creator>StevenU</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Jan 2010 18:09:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.knickerblogger.net/?p=3066#comment-285604</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@d-mar- a loss is a loss and a perfectly good time to point out the fact that DLee is not (yet?) an elite C/PF. particularly a loss to a mediocre team. Yes, Lee has elevated his game. I&#039;ll even grant that he has done so beyond what I thought he was capable of. He is  in the best scoring groove of his life. And, I am not even all that crazy for Chris Bosh. I do not for example think that Bosh is a &quot;max&quot; player. Still, Bosh is MUCH quicker on defense, a much better shot blocker, always requires a double team etc.-and one game does not a season or a career make. When Lee had to guard Bosh, Bosh took him right to the hoop and got fouled. Bosh has the quickness to blow by DLee. Lee is crafty, has extended his range, has improved his handle, and at the 5 usually quicker than his opponent.  he does not demand a double team, even in the post, let alone 19 feet from the hoop, his passing is improved but his assists to turnover rate is nothing to brag about, and most importantly: he is (still) a total defensive liability. Can you disagree with that statement?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@d-mar- a loss is a loss and a perfectly good time to point out the fact that DLee is not (yet?) an elite C/PF. particularly a loss to a mediocre team. Yes, Lee has elevated his game. I&#8217;ll even grant that he has done so beyond what I thought he was capable of. He is  in the best scoring groove of his life. And, I am not even all that crazy for Chris Bosh. I do not for example think that Bosh is a &#8220;max&#8221; player. Still, Bosh is MUCH quicker on defense, a much better shot blocker, always requires a double team etc.-and one game does not a season or a career make. When Lee had to guard Bosh, Bosh took him right to the hoop and got fouled. Bosh has the quickness to blow by DLee. Lee is crafty, has extended his range, has improved his handle, and at the 5 usually quicker than his opponent.  he does not demand a double team, even in the post, let alone 19 feet from the hoop, his passing is improved but his assists to turnover rate is nothing to brag about, and most importantly: he is (still) a total defensive liability. Can you disagree with that statement?</p>
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		<title>By: BigBlueAL</title>
		<link>http://KnickerBlogger.Net/2010-game-preview-and-thread-knicks-v-raptors/#comment-285603</link>
		<dc:creator>BigBlueAL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Jan 2010 17:16:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.knickerblogger.net/?p=3066#comment-285603</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[d-mar, I totally agree with the Bulls being vulnerable but to me thats the only team the Knicks can catch and pass.  The Raptors have too much talent imo.  Of course if Bosh is traded before the trade deadline that would change everything.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>d-mar, I totally agree with the Bulls being vulnerable but to me thats the only team the Knicks can catch and pass.  The Raptors have too much talent imo.  Of course if Bosh is traded before the trade deadline that would change everything.</p>
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