Thanks.

I think Kobe is right around top 5, especially because of his defense… and the competitiveness you mention helps but is bared out in the stats. I think you can make an argument for him as being as high as #2, I personally don’t really buy that though. I really don’t think he’s top 3 and Durant might make that not top 4. My main points are that LeBron is appreciably better than Kobe and that there are a lot of guys bunched in that 2-6 or 7 or 8 or maybe even 10 area that aren’t that easy to segregate. I think you can make an argument that Kobe is closer to 10 than 5, but can also do the opposite.
I’m really not that big on saying who THE best player is, but in this case I think it’s clear who the better player is (LeBron > Kobe). I could see an argument for Dwight Howard being better than LeBron since he’s a dominant bigman on both sides of the ball. It becomes a bit of a positional value discussion then. I’ll take LeBron though, I think.

Kobe v. Wade, that’s a discussion that might be more worth having. Kobe v. Durant or Melo also close to me.

To answer your final Q: I would prefer LeBron. Mostly because I think all else equal he gives his team a better chance to win. LeBron also seems like he’d be easier to get along with.

I think career wise Ray Allen is closer to Kobe (and certainly Ginobili is… though not in terms of longevity) than Kobe is to LeBron… especially once LeBron’s gone through his prime years and has 14 years in the league like those two.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=allenra02&y1=2010&p2=bryanko01&y2=2010&p3=jamesle01&y3=2010

We’re not debating whether Kobe is a good, great, or HOF player. You’ll get no disagreement here. The original point was that Kobe Bryant is the most valuable player to his team of all the players in the NBA. To figure that out you might first ask yourself who is the best player in the league. You might ask yourself

In 05-06 Kwame Brown and Chris Mihm split the C duties for the Lakers and Kobe’s ast/36 were the lowest they’ve been since he’s been allowed to legally drink in the US.

LeBron’s TS% is 61% and Kobe’s is 55%. That’s roughly the difference in scoring efficiency between David Lee and Al Harrington.

Kobe and LeBron were both 1st Team All-Defense. It is hard to quantify, but I also think it’s hard to claim Kobe has a huge advantage there. LeBron is a better shot blocker and rebounder, gets as many steals. Both play on good defensive teams.

I feel 100% convinced that LeBron James is a superior basketball player to Kobe Bryant. You can blame it on whatever you want, but Bryant has never come close to LeBron statistically. I have no problem saying I would take 5-10 guys ahead of him as league MVP. LeBron is better and more valuable to his team. Durant is as good or better and more valuable to his team (which otherwise is pitiful offensively). Paul is having a worse season than last season, but still right there and more valuable to his team (he’s missed enough time that he’s probably out of the running). Howard = BEAST. Wade I would put even with Kobe (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=bryanko01&y1=2010&p2=wadedw01&y2=2010) and Bosh (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=boshch01&y1=2010&p2=bryanko01&y2=2010). Bosh is probably more valuable offensively, but less so defensively. I might put Kobe a bit ahead of Roy (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=bryanko01&y1=2010&p2=roybr01&y2=2010). Nash is a far lower volume scorer, but WAY more efficient and assists on fully 1/2 of the Suns baskets when he’s on the floor (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=nashst01&y1=2010&p2=bryanko01&y2=2010). Melo is having a bad year, but is still right there (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=bryanko01&y1=2010&p2=anthoca01&y2=2010)

What’s ridiculous about that? Because Kobe has a reputation as amazing and has won a lot it’s disrespectful to say he’s not even one of the top 5 players in the NBA? Because he’s famous and cocky? Because he hits big shots? I have no problem saying Kobe is not one of the top 5 players in the NBA. He may or may not be one of the top 10. To me calling Kobe the best player in the NBA is the rough equivalent of calling Derek Jeter the best player in the MLB.

I love Kobe as much as anyone but right now its not even close anymore, Lebron is the best player in the NBA and will be for the next few years in a landslide.

Ted,
Bryant has better percentages in jump shots (both 2pt and 3pt), even though he takes many more of them than Lebron James. James makes up for it because he scores a lot inside; which would a stupid thing for Bryant to do, since he has already Gasol and Bynum there, it is not his role, and his frame is not suited for it.

I read somewhere defending Kobe from his ‘poor’ PER that in the triangle offense, assists are more shared among the team, since the bigs are given a lot of the responsability of ball-handling. Also, Kobe is a good defender, which is hardly represented on statistics.

So, for me, Kobe is more valuable to the lakers than Lebron could be. Lebron is a 1-man team in itself, he is capable of doing everything. But his inside scoring would be redundant on the lakers while his ‘poor’ outside scoring would hurt the team. It is difficult to valorate how would perform his ballhandling in the triangle offense, but i don’t think it would be much better.

All in all, Lebron and Kobe are different players, but i think that Lebron is more like a Jack-of-all-trades in a team built around him that somewhat inflates his statistics. Meanwhile Kobe is a piece (and not the only one) in a team built around Phil Jackson’s triangle offense. And yes, i believe the Lakers are the better team and all the quality players they have will make a very big difference in the playoffs.

Rant just to say that statistics are not everything. I don’t know if that makes Kobe MVP; but saying you would take 5-10 guys ahead of him…

There is very little you can do about the negative vibes. Try to ignore it best you can (if only I could take my own advice) if it bothers you. It took me two years to figure out that arguing with people here wont change them.

And really, who cares what some faceless guy who isnt even really named Thomas thinks?

Or a place without comments such as punch this guy in the face, that guy in the face, insults because players they like are no longer here, or they don’t like Italians, David Lee, etc.

Or a place without comments such as punch this guy in the face, that guy in the face, insults because players they like are no longer here, or they don’t like Italians, etc.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=jordami01&y1=1998&p2=bryanko01&y2=2010&p3=jamesle01&y3=2010

Kobe is the worst player of the 3 across the board (3P% better, but overall efficiency worse). He’s not far behind, but decidedly worse. The one thing he has on LeBron is longevity, but LeBron is better now than Kobe has ever been and could get even better since he’s in his 25 year old season. (He could also break his neck and never walk again and quite and join Bison Dele and Dave Chapelle in Africa… I have no idea.) Kobe also has the rings, but if he had never played with Shaq or Pau/Bynum he would most likely not.

(Note: That’s Jordan with the Bulls only.)