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Saturday, December 20, 2014

2010-2011 Game Recap: Bucks 107 Knicks 80

Ouch. Not much to say about this one. The Bucks got off to a scalding start, led 41-19 after a quarter and dropped a 27-point beatdown on the Knicks. After Milwaukee’s 14/17 start from the field, the Knicks actually tightened up and played passable defense the rest of the way. The Knicks’ offense, however, was nowhere close to good enough to take them out of their early hole; their 38% shooting night was characterized by poor ball movement, lots of perimeter jumpers early in the shot clock and — perhaps most damaging to their chances — 20 turnovers that led to 31 Milwaukee points.

Individually, Amare Stoudemire scored 19 points on 13 field goal attempts in just 28 minutes of play but grabbed only 4 rebounds and compiled a +/- of -18. Anthony Randolph had his best run of the young season in the first half before drifting back out of the flow after halftime; overall he finished with a well-rounded line of 8 points, 9 rebounds, 2 assists, 2 steals, and 2 blocks (albeit on a lowly 2/7 performance from the field). Ray Felton’s 8 assists were off-set by 6 turnovers and Danilo Gallinari turned back the clock to October by missing 5 of his 6 field attempts (although he did lead the team with a gaudy 0 in the +/- column).

After doing a great job on John Wall last Friday, the Knicks perimeter defenders looked more like the group that allowed Rajon Rondo and Derrick Rose to put up big numbers the week before. The Douglas/Felton pairing conceded 19 points on 13 shots to Brandon Jennings, who also picked up 6 assists and 5 rebounds without turning the ball over. Corey Maggette’s proficiency for shooting free throws with quantity and quality permitted him to score 14 points on only 6 field goal attempts. Drew Gooden started off hot but missed 9 of his last 10 shots in what appeared to be a desperate attempt to let the Knicks back into the game. It didn’t work.

Hopefully the Knicks come out with some more measured enthusiasm on Wednesday night for their showdown with the Golden State Warriors and our old buddy David Lee. Hopefully.

Please leave all of your panicked and exasperated comments below.

54 comments on “2010-2011 Game Recap: Bucks 107 Knicks 80

  1. Brian Cronin

    While this game was obviously particularly terrible, I don’t see why 73% of the voters before the season believed that the Knicks would win, at most, 42 games and then many of those same people look at a 3-4 record and see that the sky is falling.

    This is not like a 50 win team starting the season 3-4 here. I’d like better from the Knicks, of course, but I can’t expect much better than close to .500 ball from this team this season.

    So while tonight was an awful game, the season as a whole is still pretty much what I expected (in a good way). Now hopefully they can beat Golden State tomorrow night.

  2. BigBlueAL

    Go 3-0 the rest of the week and I will totally forget the last 2 games. Go 2-1 rest of the week will make me mostly forget. lol

  3. Nick C.

    Good point Brian. One positive was that briefly Andy Rautins was tied for the NBA career FG% lead. Otherwise just Isiah era ugly. Ireally thought these types of non-competitive games were a thing of the past. The Philly loss I can deal with but this stupid looking looking offense described accurately in the game thread as: sloppy, one on one, standign around etc just has to go. I think they invented playes before the depression maybe the Knicks could try a few.

  4. irvin00

    D’antoni is the problem. He is forcing a demented system on this group of players that is guaranteed to turn a 45-win unit into a 30-win bunch of underachievers. There is some talent (Randolph, gallo, Chandler, fields) that will see it’s growth stunted by D’antoni’s reliance of his flawed system.

    Do the math: the Knicks are only competitive when the 3’s are falling. Find out their collective 3-point shooting percentage and that will give you an idea of what to expect in terms of wins and general success. Amare is playing the “good soldier” so far, but things will sour quickly if he feels his numbers are being affected by the team’s play.

    Isay, fire d’antoni. The knocks can’t do worse than they have been doing for the last two years under his ‘leadership’.

  5. Frank O.

    I take this as a bit of flattery for the Knicks.
    The league has noticed that Knicks are playing tough, physical defense, and that their outside shooting is suspect (thanks 22-year-old Gallo).
    So they are forcing the Knicks, who are block happy (they lead the NBA in blocked shots) by duping the young defenders with head fakes. And when the Knicks are on offense, teams are packing in the zone, and their perimeter shooters have failed to stretch the defense.
    Oddly enough, it looks like Mr. Fields may be the Knicks’ best penetrator, given the chance. He handles the ball far more reliably than Douglas.
    Douglas’s play, now that teams are looking for him, has been pretty terrible. Oddly, he’s also allowing it to affect his defense.

    So, now the Knicks need to show their mettle and adjust. D’Antoni needs to teach these guys when to try to block and when to keep their feet.
    And Gallo simply needs to wake up. Don’t be surprised if his wrist is a problem. He definitely hurt it last night, and it’s going to be stiff today.
    Walker isn’t a reliable outside shooter and Mason is an f-ing nightmare. That man has lost his confidence.
    Douglas is inconsistent, as is Felton from outside.
    Until we get some shooting, the Knicks could be in for a rough spot.

    Still, the prospects are good if the Knicks can get their defensive proclivities ironed out.

    And I know AR did some nice things last night, but…well, I’ll leave that for another day.

  6. totti

    the thing that most fed me up is when some bloggers say to dantoni to put away his eurostyle offense play. This is not eurostyle ball. This is plain and simply a concept of offense based on a good/very good pg. If you don’t have this type of pg, the system simply sucks because is too static with 4 players behind the arc awaiting for lunch.
    I have never seen an offense set worst than dantoni’s one.
    It is clear that the management failed to provide dantoni a good pg. It is also clear that dantoni did not modify anything from last year.
    So, as most of you say: live and die by the 3 shots.

    As for gallo: he recovered his best physical shape, but he is far from the player all of us expect. Why? IMO something broke down between him and coach/management. For sure some of this slump is due to the lack of a coherent offensive plan which affects every other player, but the remaining part of this early failure is mental, imo.

  7. irvin00

    @totti

    “the thing that most fed me up is when some bloggers say to dantoni to put away his eurostyle offense play. This is not eurostyle ball. This is plain and simply a concept of offense based on a good/very good pg. If you don’t have this type of pg, the system simply sucks because is too static with 4 players behind the arc awaiting for lunch.
    I have never seen an offense set worst than dantoni’s one.”

    And whose fault would that be? The bloggers? James Dolan? Isaiah Thomas? Walsh? The fans? The devil?

    Or perhaps D’Antoni, whose responsibility is to prepare the team based on the available talent, instead of forcing a system incompatible with the players?

  8. irvin00

    I take this as a bit of flattery for the Knicks

    This will be the third season the League “flatters” the Knicks into submission :-)

  9. Frank O.

    irvin00:
    This will be the third season the League “flatters” the Knicks into submission :-)  

    Bummed as I am, this team is nothing like the teams of the past.
    They do play defense. They do play hard throughout.
    And they simply have better talent, committed to this team.
    They don’t have any rentals on this squad.

    My hope is you are incorrect. :)

  10. Nick C.

    Frank O. I would tend to agree but last night was an Isaiah team type of performance. To be honest I thought that was a thing of the past. But then again look what Denver did with the great Melo, Big Shot Billups, Ty Lawson and Renaldo Balkman. Miami is but 5-3 a mere two games over 500. So i guess *hit happens.

  11. irvin00

    Frank O.: Bummed as I am, this team is nothing like the teams of the past.They do play defense. They do play hard throughout.And they simply have better talent, committed to this team.They don’t have any rentals on this squad.My hope is you are incorrect. :)  (Quote)

    Frank O.

    I agree with you on all points! They do try to play hard, they have better talent and they are trying to play defense. The problem is they are forced into a system that *MINIMIZES* their productivity – I have said it countless times: the problem is not the players, it is the coaching.

    When the Knicks hit their 3’s they look like world beaters – when they don’t, the loss is almost certain. That means they will lose most of the time (not to mention the incredible strain it must put on players’ psyche).

    At some point, we must place responsibility on D’Antoni’s shoulders: he is the only one who can make Chandler stop taking those ugly 3’s, force Gallo to move around the court, demand that Toney Douglas considers passing the ball, enforces the PnR with Amare/Felton, makes Gallo a reserve and starts Chandler, etc.etc.

    The Knicks have played the same incredibly frustrating good/bad/terrible/bad basketball pattern for a long time. The players come and go, but the only constant is the coaching: why it is that this team plays exactly like the one last season, in spite of the “10 new guys”?

  12. Caleb

    I’m not that worried about one game. And just because we rely on the 3, doesn’t make it a bad strategy. Based on career performance the Knicks have decent shooters.

    But… when do we start to worry about Stoudemire? Through seven games he has a TS% barely over 50, and a career-low rebound percentage (about 2/3 David Lee’s rebound #). He looks ok to the naked eye but for a guy with his health history you have to wonder if he’s coming down with Larry Johnson syndrome. Another 5 games like that and I will panic.

  13. Frank O.

    Caleb: I’m not that worried about one game. And just because we rely on the 3, doesn’t make it a bad strategy. Based on career performance the Knicks have decent shooters. But… when do we start to worry about Stoudemire? Through seven games he has a TS% barely over 50, and a career-low rebound percentage (about 2/3 David Lee’s rebound #). He looks ok to the naked eye but for a guy with his health history you have to wonder if he’s coming down with Larry Johnson syndrome. Another 5 games like that and I will panic.  (Quote)

    Hey Caleb:
    Not to make excuses, but teams are committing to shutting down the paint on the Knicks.
    The reason they have been effective doing that is because the Knicks 3 pt shooting has been attrocious in about half the games.
    If I’m defending against the Knicks, I design a scheme to try and take away Amare and let the other guys beat me.

    That strategy has worked more than it has not.
    Amare, as much of a force he is, is 6’9 and it trying to take the ball inside against a PF and a center, and sometimes a collapsing guard. Everyone is playing a packed in zone against the Knicks.
    So long as the Knicks’ shooters fail to stretch the floor, Amare is going to struggle.
    With the Suns, no one dared collapse in on Amare with a shooter like Nash on the perimeter.
    Right now, Felton is having trouble knocking down shots, Chandler seems content to shoot from 26 ft rather than probing the paint (probably a part of the packing in problem), and Gallo is just non-existent for most of the games. Douglas is terribly inconsistent, as is Walker. Mason has been putrid and young Landry is doing what he can right now.
    So as long as it’s just STAT serving as a threat in the paint (certainly Turiaf and Mosgov have scared no one so far) he’s seeing teams simply collapse on him.

    On another note, all those folks who were saying Turiaf is getting too much time…well, you’re probably going to get your wish. The Pharoah has a sprained knee. I’m not sure he will play and if he does he certainly won’t be very effective.
    So after tonight, he might say to you, “how do you like me now?” :)

    One way or another, the Knicks need to make teams pay for packing it in. One would think this is Gallo’s moment to flourish, but so far he is way to passive.

  14. totti

    irvin,

    i don’t like when someone calls horrible dantoni’s offensive sets “eurostyle”.
    The so called eurostyle is just the opposite.
    hard and team defense based on rotations and assignements, this is the priority here, no matter if you’re in spain, italy or greece.
    As for the offense, usually teams play a minded half court set, share the ball and wait for a good shot well built by the team. Not many isolations.

    Now, for sure i don’t want compare euroleagues and nba, beeing the nba another planet.
    All i want to say is that dantoni system is just senseless and improductive, that his only luck has been to have nash on his side and that definitely he does not play an eurostyle one.

  15. ess-dog

    Jesus,
    Glad I decided to watch a movie with my wife instead of this dreck.
    I think what is frustrating is that instead of addressing weaknesses that we all knew were there, the Knicks replaced a good player with a good player and then put crappy band aids on the other parts. OUR POINT GUARD AND CENTER POSITIONS ARE STILL AS WEAK AS A SHIRLEY TEMPLE.
    For some reason, this organization thinks it’s ok to have a team of swingmen.
    Timo and Felton are just not quality NBA starters. As much as we want to will them to be. Plus our starting 2 is a rookie (albeit a good one) and Gallo looks lost.
    How could Amare possibly play well? I agree though, I’ll give it 5 more games before I really panic.
    Hey, do you think we can all collectively pretend that Walsh drafted Lopez and Jennings and use transcendental meditation to make this a reality?

  16. Caleb

    Frank O.:
    If I’m defending against the Knicks, I design a scheme to try and take away Amare and let the other guys beat me.That strategy has worked more than it has not.

    It’s worked the last two games, but the Knicks actually have an above-average group of shooters on the roster. Gallo, Douglas, Walker, Azubuike – all in the 40 percent range. Fields and Felton are solid. Shooting a ton of 3s makes for a lot of variability, but in the long run, high percentage shooters will make a high percentage. So it’s not a bad strategy for the Knicks. Assuming Gallo hasn’t forgotten how to shoot.

    But I agree with you, D’Antoni needs to show more flexibility. It looks like he’s emphasizing the system over the players, which is always a mistake. Once he gets all the way healthy, Randolph is probably the player on the roster with the most long-term potential, and he can’t shoot at all. Chandler is one of the top 5 players right now, and he can’t shoot either. Finding a way to improve ball movement and movement off the ball, get to the rim more, would be great.

  17. Frank O.

    Caleb: It’s worked the last two games, but the Knicks actually have an above-average group of shooters on the roster. Gallo, Douglas, Walker, Azubuike – all in the 40 percent range. Fields and Felton are solid. Shooting a ton of 3s makes for a lot of variability, but in the long run, high percentage shooters will make a high percentage. So it’s not a bad strategy for the Knicks. Assuming Gallo hasn’t forgotten how to shoot.But I agree with you, D’Antoni needs to show more flexibility. It looks like he’s emphasizing the system over the players, which is always a mistake. Once he gets all the way healthy, Randolph is probably the player on the roster with the most long-term potential, and he can’t shoot at all. Chandler is one of the top 5 players right now, and he can’t shoot either. Finding a way to improve ball movement and movement off the ball, get to the rim more, would be great.  (Quote)

    Totally agree with your second graph..

    I’m concerned about the 3 pt shooters. You’re probably right that the shooters will conform to their averages. At least I hope you’re right.

    What is mystifying for me is Chandler heaving up so many threes. Not a good shooter from three, and yet he’s not working to penetrate or shoot from mid-range.

    You know ball movement was amazing against the Bulls and Wiz. What happened against the 76ers and last night with ball movement?
    So much standing around and individual plays, or quick shots that aren’t good, or occur before the team could be in a position even to rebound a miss. Just dumb basketball.

    Did Douglas and Chandler put up big numbers and decide they didn’t need their teammates to make that happen? I mean, they both had a lot of good looks when the ball was moving. The looks they’re getting in iso are far, far worse, and their numbers are the worse for it.

  18. Nick C.

    I have two problems with the reliance on the three one may be silly, which is it relies on guys like Walker and Douglas, who have good numbers but in limited minutes a/k/a “small sample size.”

    My other issue is rhetorical. I just never like the idea of having so many failed possessions … in other words 2/6 from 3 is 6 points which = 3/6 from two. On paper that’s identical. But, if you can set aside the concept of offensive rebounds for a moment or getting fouled, it seems to me that teams would a greater degree of effectiveness offensively following rebounds rather than taking it out from under the basket.

  19. Ted Nelson

    Caleb and Frank,

    I agree about the 3 pt shooting in general. I also think that the Knicks need to keep shooting. As soon as they miss a few 3s they start going away from 3s from their best shooters. Suddenly the only 3PA you get are Wilson Chandler jacking up 3s from 3 ft behind the line or a really awkward hesitant 3 from a good shooter totally out of any offensive rhythm. Part of that has to be on the guys who wilt when they miss a few shots, but part of it also has to be on the coaches and team leaders to encourage them to play smart ball.

    The ball movement is definitely part of this. Of course, it’s harder to move the ball against a strong, active defense. Which is where you also need to move yourselves a bit. The Bucks were just all over the place on defense. That was a thorough beat-down that no one thing would necessarily fix… but, when the defense is really active and you just stand around and dribble into the defense… not going to work.

    Will be interesting to see how they respond to that butt whooping tonight against a team that is at least probably not the at the Bucks level defensively (GS is actually 15th in defense right now).

  20. Ted Nelson

    Nick C.: it seems to me that teams would a greater degree of effectiveness offensively following rebounds rather than taking it out from under the basket.  

    May be a valid point–I don’t know–but you also have to weigh it against the offensive efficiency. If you are getting most of the 3s from 40% 3P shooters… that’s pretty efficient. Less misses and more points.

    First problem I have with it is that the Knicks aren’t taking a lot of 3s. It’s not like they’re taking 10 more 3s than their opponent in losses. Last night’s numbers may be a bit skewed in one direction or another by garbage time, but they’re roughly taking the same # of 3s as their opponents. So, pace adjusted I’m not sure they’re overusing the 3. I would like to see more of it after they’re not falling, actually. In theory the best time to take a bunch of 3s is after you’ve missed a bunch. A. You’re likely to regress to the mean. B. The defense may not respect the 3 and close out if they think you’re missing (or course if the reason you’re missing seems to be how well they’re closing out… this doesn’t really work).

    There’s an offensive balance thing, as well. You take and make the 3s and theoretically it can make it easier to get the 2s. The Knicks, IMO, are struggling to run a coherent offense where they get the shots they want, and maybe even where they know what shots they want. Last night I literally felt like Scott Skiles could have called out the shot the defense wanted before every Knicks’ possession (the worst shot) and like 75% of the time the Bucks forced the Knicks into that shot and the Knicks were all too happy to take it: Mozgov 22 footer, Chandler 3, Walker drive right at a defender who has been standing in the same place in front of him for for 10 seconds… It was amazing. To the eye the Knicks were bullied around out there by the Bucks.

  21. Ted Nelson

    So, the problem to me isn’t that they’re taking too many 3s. TD hit 2-3 3PA… Why is he taking only 3 while Wilson Chandler is taking 4??? Why are Gallo and TD combining for 5 3PA and WC has 4??? Why are Gallo and Fields combining for the same # as WC??? It’s not just that WC is taking too many 3s, but also that no one else is taking enough IMO.

    Not trying to kick him while he’s down, but what on earth was Roger Mason Jr. doing kicking out his legs like that on his jump shots?????? It was like he jumped up in the air and did a split when he took a jumper…

    Last random thought… Knicks weren’t getting to the line. This has to partially be due to the Bucks’ superior defense, but also to not attacking that defense IMO. TD, WC, and BW combined for 22 FGA, 8 TOs, and ZERO FTA…

    Ok, one more… Why did Roger Mason take that T? Totally irrelevant in that game, but you’ve got a guy coming in cold off the bench with zero shots taken in the last 2 or 3 games and… he takes the FTA?

  22. Garson

    With Turiaf probobly out tonite… I think well have a chance to see what Randolph can do with some decent meaningful minutes.

    Through his first few games, he looks very lost on the court not knowing his role or what he should be doing. To tell you the truth, i dont even know what he should be doing? It seems with his skill set he should be camping out around the paint as opposed to by the 3 point line calling for the ball.

    one things for certain… he does run the floor extremely well however in the half court set hes been aloof.

  23. Nick C.

    Ted they are taking 24 3s (4th in the league) and opponets 15 if I read the number right on Yahoo. 40% would be fantastic. Just FYI or to make you tear out your hair their % is 34.7 which seems mid pack. Felton, TD, Gallo and Fields are between 35.7 (Felton) and 40.0 (Fields). Walker is @ 31.3 (5-16). Our good friend Chandler has attempted 33 or, three less than TD and one more than Gallo, at a mind numbing 27.3%.

    I guess that can be interpreted any which way other than WC needs to stop shotting 3s.

  24. Frank O.

    DS: @15 “OUR POINT GUARD AND CENTER POSITIONS ARE STILL AS WEAK AS A SHIRLEY TEMPLE.”I wonder how badly the Suns need to do and how well the Knicks young players need to play in order for the Nash-to-Knicks talk to start…http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/knicks/nash_might_become_available_9NJXSZdMNcO8FR9cs1I0NI… from credible sources.  (Quote)

    Fucking Berman.
    didn’t he try to portray what D’Antoni said about last year’s v. this year’s team as a slight to Lee?
    What a moron. I watched that press conference and D’Antoni just stated a fact. They were smaller and less athletic than this team.
    Lee said as much today in a Hahn interview.

    I mean if this what you do for a living, with all the stuff you can write about (hell, read this blog. Typically there are a dozen stories that could be written based on nuggets of ideas that spring forth) why would he feel the need to seek a rub where one doesn’t exist?
    I mean, there are so many smart analysis and news stories he could do on the Knicks. They’re a fascinating lot. I don’t get it.

  25. Frank O.

    Ted Nelson: Caleb and Frank,I agree about the 3 pt shooting in general. I also think that the Knicks need to keep shooting. As soon as they miss a few 3s they start going away from 3s from their best shooters. Suddenly the only 3PA you get are Wilson Chandler jacking up 3s from 3 ft behind the line or a really awkward hesitant 3 from a good shooter totally out of any offensive rhythm. Part of that has to be on the guys who wilt when they miss a few shots, but part of it also has to be on the coaches and team leaders to encourage them to play smart ball. The ball movement is definitely part of this. Of course, it’s harder to move the ball against a strong, active defense. Which is where you also need to move yourselves a bit. The Bucks were just all over the place on defense. That was a thorough beat-down that no one thing would necessarily fix… but, when the defense is really active and you just stand around and dribble into the defense… not going to work. Will be interesting to see how they respond to that butt whooping tonight against a team that is at least probably not the at the Bucks level defensively (GS is actually 15th in defense right now).  (Quote)

    You’re right, of course, about the Bucks D last night. But the Bulls were a very good D, and they just couldn’t keep up with the way the ball moved, and still collapse on Amare when he touched the ball.
    It looked to me in that game that the crisp passing really put the Bulls on their heels. And it utterly destroyed the Wiz.

    I think it’s a great observation about the shooters. I mean, as soon as I read what you wrote that they should have kept shooting but they wilted when they missed, I thought, “Well, too bad Wilson didn’t stop shooting,” and then I read what you wrote. Funny.

    I hadn’t thought of it that way. Gallo, and Walker need to keep shooting.
    WC needs to have an electric collar put on him that zaps him everytime he raises the ball above his shoulders beyond 22 feet from the basket. Like an invisible fence for dogs.

    I bet he drives like a freight train with a collar like that. :)

  26. Frank O.

    Ted Nelson: I would like to see more of it after they’re not falling, actually. In theory the best time to take a bunch of 3s is after you’ve missed a bunch. A. You’re likely to regress to the mean. B. The defense may not respect the 3 and close out if they think you’re missing (or course if the reason you’re missing seems to be how well they’re closing out… this doesn’t really work).   (Quote)

    See Ted?
    There you go with that counterintuitive thinking? (I’m busting chops here) :)

    But let me pose a question to you:
    If several New York Knicks last night hurried shots because they heard fans arbitrarily counting down 5-4-3-2-1, rather than watching the giant red-numbered shot clock on top of each backboard that indicated there was far more time left to get a better shot, then do you think Knicks players will understand counterintuitive thought?
    Just sayin’. :)

  27. ess-dog

    Damn! I think we missed our window to trade Wilson by a few games…
    Nonetheless, I think we could still pawn him off on the Grizz. They like high volume, low percentage scorers, right? I would take a top 17 draft pick. I just can’t watch him brick any more threes.
    I think in my outrage I was a little hard on Felton. He had a bad game and generally has been playing well – at least as well as Jennings and Holiday – but for some reason, he’s pretty bad at the pick and roll, and we have 2 good dive men in Amar’e and Timo wasting away. I just really really really hope that D’Antoni can at least try running it with Gallo or Fields on the tossing end. There’s no reason they can’t try to establish a rhythm with those guys instead of forcing Felton to make it work. Felton can focus on running the break.

  28. Frank O.

    Ted Nelson: So, the problem to me isn’t that they’re taking too many 3s. TD hit 2-3 3PA… Why is he taking only 3 while Wilson Chandler is taking 4??? Why are Gallo and TD combining for 5 3PA and WC has 4??? Why are Gallo and Fields combining for the same # as WC??? It’s not just that WC is taking too many 3s, but also that no one else is taking enough IMO. Not trying to kick him while he’s down, but what on earth was Roger Mason Jr. doing kicking out his legs like that on his jump shots?????? It was like he jumped up in the air and did a split when he took a jumper…Last random thought… Knicks weren’t getting to the line. This has to partially be due to the Bucks’ superior defense, but also to not attacking that defense IMO. TD, WC, and BW combined for 22 FGA, 8 TOs, and ZERO FTA…Ok, one more… Why did Roger Mason take that T? Totally irrelevant in that game, but you’ve got a guy coming in cold off the bench with zero shots taken in the last 2 or 3 games and… he takes the FTA?  (Quote)

    The announcers last night kept saying the Knicks were athletic enough to attack the Bucks’ centers, and yet they kept settling for jump shots.

    One last thought….Mason….nevermind.

  29. Frank O.

    Garson: With Turiaf probobly out tonite… I think well have a chance to see what Randolph can do with some decent meaningful minutes. Through his first few games, he looks very lost on the court not knowing his role or what he should be doing. To tell you the truth, i dont even know what he should be doing? It seems with his skill set he should be camping out around the paint as opposed to by the 3 point line calling for the ball. one things for certain… he does run the floor extremely well however in the half court set hes been aloof.  (Quote)

    First thing, he needs to dribble with his head up. You run into less defenders that way. You also get get trapped with the ball that way. You might actually see there are four other guys out there dress like you who you can pass to.
    If he focuses on rebounding and defending the rim, he could play a very important role for the Knicks in Turiaf’s absence.

  30. nicos

    Ted Nelson: Why did Roger Mason take that T? Totally irrelevant in that game, but you’ve got a guy coming in cold off the bench with zero shots taken in the last 2 or 3 games and… he takes the FTA?  

    I’m sure D’Antoni was trying to give him a bit of confidence as he’s had almost nothing go in the basket this year.

    My problem with the Knicks threes are how few of them seem to be in rhythm- it’s Chandler catching the ball, hesitating for a couple of seconds deciding whether or not he wants to drive and then hoisting a three. When he just catches the ball and steps into the shot in rhythm he’s a much better shooter. Same goes for Gallo- he seems more hesitant on the catch than he did last year- maybe it’s the wrist, maybe it’s that he’s looking for opportunities to drive more this year and thinking a little bit more than he did last year- either way I think it’s affected his shooting.

    Of course it’s difficult to get shots in rhythm when the offense is so stagnant. A big part of the problem is you have a number of guys playing big minutes- Amare, Chandler, Douglas, Gallo- who don’t make quick decisions with the ball. You can add Timo to that list if he takes a big chunk of Turiaf’s minutes if Turiaf misses a lot of time with the knee. AR, while he shows signs of being a good passer can also be very hesitant at times. About the only two guys who you can say move the ball quickly are Turiaf and Fields. I don’t think Felton’s been awful- he certainly hasn’t been as good in the half-court as he’s been on the break but he hasn’t been pounding the ball for 10-12 seconds every time down the court as I feared he might. That said, he’s not the kind of point who gets the whole team moving. Given that the ball is probably not going to move that quickly from side to side- when was the last time you saw a skip pass from someone besides Felton?- D’Antoni’s going to have to do something- more baseline screens for shooters perhaps? He did scrap SSOL last year but it took him half the season- hopefully this year he’ll make quicker changes and try running some kind of more structured offense.

  31. BigBlueAL

    For the person worrying Amar’e is the new Larry Johnson, he is averaging 8 boards and 2 blocks per game. Since the Bulls debacle he has shot exactly 50% from the field. His PER is now above 15 and Im assuming by the end of the season it will be in the early 20’s where it usually always is with Amar’e.

    To me Amar’e is the least of the problems since it seems like he has adjusted since the Bulls game and is not jacking up shots like crazy. Plus he has proven to be much more active on D then I ever imagined he would be.

    Also for as pissed as I was after last night’s game lets be honest, D’Antoni called off the dogs as he stated after the game by the end of the 3rd quarter since they are playing tonight. If he wanted to keep the starters playing for the most part the entire game they dont lose by 27 most likely they lose in the mid to lower teens. Hell he didnt even put out the 2nd team in the 4th quarter last night he had freakin Mason and Rautins playing.

    Hopefully as I mentioned above they win tonight and the next 2 games which are all extremely winnable and we can forget these past 2 games and just chalk it up to the ups and downs this team will experience all season long. Considering next week they play 4 games in 5 nights on the west coast there will be plenty of down moments ahead in the immediate future most likely. Just hopefully not anymore this week.

  32. nicos

    I should add that it’s no coincidence that the two guys that move the ball the quickest- Turiaf and Fields- also move the most off of the ball- easier to pass the ball when you create a bit of space for yourself by moving. The one game where the Knicks really moved the ball well was the Wizards game- why? Because the Wizards play absolutely no defense off of the ball- they let you stroll wherever you want on the court. Milwaukee on the other hand…

  33. Nick C.

    As an aside why all the hate for a career 38.1% #pt shooter in 1144 attempts whiel a pass or much love goes out to the shooting of alphabetically, a .389 shooter w/ 592 attempts and .384 shooter with 211 attempts and a .414 shooter with all of 133 attempts???

  34. Ted Nelson

    Nick C.: Ted they are taking 24 3s (4th in the league) and opponets 15 if I read the number right on Yahoo.

    But look at the losses:

    Bucks: 16 Knicks: 19
    Sixers: 18 Knicks: 19
    Wiz: 16 Knicks: 29
    Bulls: 19 Knicks: 24
    Portland: 13 Knicks: 28
    Celts: 16 Knicks: 27
    Raps: 10 Knicks: 24

    So, generally I think the Knicks do better when they shoot more 3s. Celts and Blazers are expections, but those are good teams the Knicks actually played very closely. The great collapse against the Blazers came almost entirely on WC and Amare taking over the offense, as in the 4th the other shooters were actually 3-4 for 8 points from the perimeter.

    Against the Sixers and Bucks, it seemed like the Knicks missed a few 3s and suddenly WC was the only one taking 3s. Or they go away from the 3 for long stretches, then shoot 3s on a few possessions in a row… possibly because D’Antoni let them know not to go away from the 3, but that’s 100% speculation.

    Nick C.: Just FYI or to make you tear out your hair their % is 34.7 which seems mid pack. Felton, TD, Gallo and Fields are between 35.7 (Felton) and 40.0 (Fields). Walker is @ 31.3 (5-16).

    I don’t think they’ll shoot 40% as a team, but their best shooters might be in the high 30s to 40%. If WC were taking 1 3PA per game at 30%, the team would be at 36%. If Walker is more of a 37% shooter (which may be a low estimate or may be right) than the 31.3% so far… Knicks are at 37%. TD and Gallo hit a few more… Fields is capable of taking a larger volume while staying around 40%… All big assumptions, but a few of them are correct and Knicks can maybe get to that 38+% on a high volume that they need to be anything like the Suns. A lot of it also comes down to knowing what kind of shot you want as an offense and executing to get it. Last night, at least, and I think in other games to a lesser extent, the Knicks didn’t/don’t seem to know what shots they are looking for. They are taking what the defense gives to an extraordinary extent, even if the defense gives them a crappy long J from one of their crappy shooters. Or a drive for a crappy in-traffic driver like Walker (3 charges on virtually the same play in the same game????? really????? Guy needs his driver’s license suspended… if he couldn’t do it in the Summer League how is he going to do it against the Bucks?).

    I expect Walker to come around, Gallo is at 37.5%, TD is 36%… and it’s a small sample. Those are the guys the Knicks need shooting the majority of their 3s (and probably Fields, and maybe Azu or Mason or Rautins if they are in the rotation). That’s one thing that made the Suns so effective. Annually, Marion would take a few 3s at 33%, but the vast majority of their 3s were taken by guys like Nash, Bell, Barbosa… who were hitting 40%. As a team the Suns would be at 39, 40% despite Marion’s crappy 3P% because he limited his attempts. As you say, WC is #2 in 3PA on the Knicks and Amare also isn’t far behind Fields (which right now might be more on Fields, since Amare is 3-6).

  35. Ted Nelson

    Frank O.: But the Bulls were a very good D

    Maybe it’s too small a sample and maybe Boozer helps… but both in that game and overall I wouldn’t compare them. Bulls are giving up 6 more pts/100 possessions (maybe thanks in part to the Knicks) and the Bucks were just bullying the Knicks out there last night.

    I agree that the Knicks need to do more and not just collapse under defensive pressure, though. And about the 3s.

    Frank O.: If several New York Knicks last night hurried shots because they heard fans arbitrarily counting down 5-4-3-2-1, rather than watching the giant red-numbered shot clock on top of each backboard

    LOL. I don’t know if it’s youth, coaching, or they’re just not a smart team. They play pretty dumb, though, which is super frustrating to me since I was looking forward to no more of that. If Felton and Amare are really team leaders… they need to step it up now. Knicks need to keep competing every night and try not to dig too much of a hole in the standings.

  36. Frank O.

    nicos: I’m sure D’Antoni was trying to give him a bit of confidence as he’s had almost nothing go in the basket this year.My problem with the Knicks threes are how few of them seem to be in rhythm- it’s Chandler catching the ball, hesitating for a couple of seconds deciding whether or not he wants to drive and then hoisting a three. When he just catches the ball and steps into the shot in rhythm he’s a much better shooter. Same goes for Gallo- he seems more hesitant on the catch than he did last year- maybe it’s the wrist, maybe it’s that he’s looking for opportunities to drive more this year and thinking a little bit more than he did last year- either way I think it’s affected his shooting. Of course it’s difficult to get shots in rhythm when the offense is so stagnant. A big part of the problem is you have a number of guys playing big minutes- Amare, Chandler, Douglas, Gallo- who don’t make quick decisions with the ball. You can add Timo to that list if he takes a big chunk of Turiaf’s minutes if Turiaf misses a lot of time with the knee. AR, while he shows signs of being a good passer can also be very hesitant at times. About the only two guys who you can say move the ball quickly are Turiaf and Fields. I don’t think Felton’s been awful- he certainly hasn’t been as good in the half-court as he’s been on the break but he hasn’t been pounding the ball for 10-12 seconds every time down the court as I feared he might. That said, he’s not the kind of point who gets the whole team moving. Given that the ball is probably not going to move that quickly from side to side- when was the last time you saw a skip pass from someone besides Felton?- D’Antoni’s going to have to do something- more baseline screens for shooters perhaps? He did scrap SSOL last year but it took him half the season- hopefully this year he’ll make quicker changes and try running some kind of more structured offense.  (Quote)

    *snicker*
    Roger Mason is 0-2010-2011

  37. Ted Nelson

    Nick C.: As an aside why all the hate for a career 38.1% #pt shooter in 1144 attempts whiel a pass or much love goes out to the shooting of alphabetically, a .389 shooter w/ 592 attempts and .384 shooter with 211 attempts and a .414 shooter with all of 133 attempts???  

    Because Mason has been absolutely unbearably awful so far this season (he does actually have 7 reb in 34 min…)… he has barely hit any shots between pre-season and his few regular season numbers.

    And because after a down season he’s started this one missing everything and kicking his legs up the air like a gymnast while he shoots.

    Seriously, though, I don’t think he does enough else to really be in the rotation. Felton is a better playmaker. TD is a better version of Mason, IMO. And, while he may be as good or better a player as/than Bill Walker, I don’t know the Knicks need another short guard out there. (I know Mason is 6-5, but can you honestly tell a height difference between he and TD or Felton based on play? I’d say they all play at the same height if you follow.) Then again, maybe another guy with handle out there would be good. The Knicks have other guys who can hit 38% and do more in other areas. His intangible might be useful, he might get hot at some point and earn minutes, and/or he might prove valuable in the case of injury/foul trouble to a rotation player (depth).

  38. ess-dog

    Ted Nelson:
    Because Mason has been absolutely unbearably awful so far this season (he does actually have 7 reb in 34 min…)… he has barely hit any shots between pre-season and his few regular season numbers.And because after a down season he’s started this one missing everything and kicking his legs up the air like a gymnast while he shoots.Seriously, though, I don’t think he does enough else to really be in the rotation. Felton is a better playmaker. TD is a better version of Mason, IMO. And, while he may be as good or better a player as/than Bill Walker, I don’t know the Knicks need another short guard out there. (I know Mason is 6-5, but can you honestly tell a height difference between he and TD or Felton based on play? I’d say they all play at the same height if you follow.) Then again, maybe another guy with handle out there would be good. The Knicks have other guys who can hit 38% and do more in other areas. His intangible might be useful, he might get hot at some point and earn minutes, and/or he might prove valuable in the case of injury/foul trouble to a rotation player (depth).  

    I’d almost rather give Mason’s scrubby minutes to Rautins who can hopefully become a good distributor…

  39. Ted Nelson

    nicos: My problem with the Knicks threes are how few of them seem to be in rhythm

    Agree 100%. Great points. This is part of what I’m getting at with them not seeming to know what a good shot is and isn’t.

    Agree 100% about the stagnant offense. It’s all sort of inter-related I’d say.

  40. Frank O.

    Ted Nelson: Because Mason has been absolutely unbearably awful so far this season (he does actually have 7 reb in 34 min…)… he has barely hit any shots between pre-season and his few regular season numbers.And because after a down season he’s started this one missing everything and kicking his legs up the air like a gymnast while he shoots.Seriously, though, I don’t think he does enough else to really be in the rotation. Felton is a better playmaker. TD is a better version of Mason, IMO. And, while he may be as good or better a player as/than Bill Walker, I don’t know the Knicks need another short guard out there. (I know Mason is 6-5, but can you honestly tell a height difference between he and TD or Felton based on play? I’d say they all play at the same height if you follow.) Then again, maybe another guy with handle out there would be good. The Knicks have other guys who can hit 38% and do more in other areas. His intangible might be useful, he might get hot at some point and earn minutes, and/or he might prove valuable in the case of injury/foul trouble to a rotation player (depth).  (Quote)

    I think Mason needs to show some balls now, rather than getting time on reputation.
    Basketball, like any other business, is about what you have done lately. And he has really sucked through preseason and early season. I actually think 2 of his 6 shots were airballs.

  41. jimmyjam

    Caleb:
    But… when do we start to worry about Stoudemire? Through seven games he has a TS% barely over 50, and a career-low rebound percentage (about 2/3 David Lee’s rebound #). He looks ok to the naked eye but for a guy with his health history you have to wonder if he’s coming down with Larry Johnson syndrome. Another 5 games like that and I will panic.  

    Don’t worry about Stoudemire. He is a FIVE time ALL STAR!

    LMAO @ David Lee getting a video tribute tonight. I feel tributes should go to star players or players who were here for at least a few successful playoff years where you made impacts. A video tribute should go to guys who were incredibly great Knicks. Lee doesn’t fall into either category!

  42. jimmyjam

    Ted Nelson:
    Agree 100%. Great points. This is part of what I’m getting at with them not seeming to know what a good shot is and isn’t.
    Agree 100% about the stagnant offense. It’s all sort of inter-related I’d say.  

    I never take stats off a blowout loss. I want to see offense in a close game. That’s when a real MAN and REAL ballas like AMARE step up and show their skill sets. So far, David Lee’s NBA career is about filling up the statsheet for losing… teams in blowout scenarios!!!!!

  43. latke

    Ted Nelson: So, generally I think the Knicks do better when they shoot more 3s. Celts and Blazers are expections, but those are good teams the Knicks actually played very closely. The great collapse against the Blazers came almost entirely on WC and Amare taking over the offense, as in the 4th the other shooters were actually 3-4 for 8 points from the perimeter.

    You could also argue that the lower number of attempts are a result of teams defending the three better, resulting in fewer available three point shots and in the shots that are available being a higher degree of difficulty. The evidence seems to support that–
    Knicks 3pt% in games with fewer than 24 3pt attempts: 21%
    Knicks 3pt% in games with 24 or more 3pt attempts: 38.6%

    I think it’s simply a case of the fact that the better the defense, the more patient you have to be. Against certain teams, the middle will be consistently be more open, and against other teams, the perimeter will be more open, but really good defensive teams will not consistently reveal a weakness. On one play, you may be able to find an open three, and on another play you may be able to get into the interior, but on most of those places it will take patience and awareness in order to

    It’s a matter of evaluating the defense in the moment, and that’s when you really can’t get around not having good decision makers, and so far this year, the knicks have exhibited an inability to make those play-by-play adjustments. The culprits seem to change from game to game. Early on it was Amare and Gallinari. Last night it was mostly the guards: Douglas, Felton, and Walker. They all forced shots in the paint or from the perimeter at various times during the game, resulting in steals, charges, or missed shots.

    The bottom line too is that good defensive teams ARE going to get more stops, and that doesn’t always mean you need to adjust. Sometimes you just have to trust that even though the defense made a great recovery last time you made that pass, they aren’t always going to make that spectacular defensive play.

  44. ess-dog

    Ellis is starting tonight. I’m predicting a lot of this lineup: Felton, TD, Gallo/Fields, AR, Stat. Run and force their post guys to beat us. Lotta points, but more D than in the past. I hope to watch this one.

  45. jaylamerique

    irvin00: Chandler should start, istead of Gallo.  

    no he shouldnt. chandler cant shoot and our problem is shooting. if chandler started the paint would be packed in.

  46. Z

    Caleb:
    But… when do we start to worry about Stoudemire? Through seven games he has a TS% barely over 50, and a career-low rebound percentage (about 2/3 David Lee’s rebound #). He looks ok to the naked eye but for a guy with his health history you have to wonder if he’s coming down with Larry Johnson syndrome. Another 5 games like that and I will panic.  

    And when should GS worry about Lee? His TS% is even worse: 125 points below his career average!

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