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Saturday, December 20, 2014

2010-2011 Game Preview/Thread: Knicks @ Hornets

New York (10-9, 7-4 away) heads to New Orleans (13-5, 8-1 home).  A tough game to be sure, but I’m not ready to call this a lock for the Hornets.  After an 11-1 start the Hornets are 3-4 since the trade with Raptors that sent Peja Stojakovic to the Raptors in exchange for Jarrett Jack and David Andersen.

    Knicks Offense    
Pace EFF eFG TO OREB% FT/FG
96.5 109.7 51.3 16.1 25.7 28.4
3 7 6 21 18 4
    Hornets Defense    
Pace EFF eFG TO OREB% FT/FG
90.5 100.9 47.2 16.3 23.8 22.8
27 3 4 10 6 11
    Knicks Defense    
Pace EFF eFG TO OREB% FT/FG
96.5 109.4 51 15.8 27.4 22.7
3 22 23 15 21 8
    Hornets Offense    
Pace EFF eFG TO OREB% FT/FG
90.5 105.7 50.3 14.7 21.6 23.3
27 17 13 8 29 18

The Hornets remind me of the Mike Fratello coached Cavaliers teams of the early 90s.  Like those Cavaliers teams, the Hornets combine slow pace (90.5, 27th) with a strong defense (EFF 100.9, 3rd eFG% 47.2, 4th) and feature a strong point guard and solid players on the front line.  By slowing the pace, playing strong defense, and doing well on the defensive glass, the Hornets limit scoring opportunities for the opposition. This style of play is very effective against teams that have inefficient offenses.  However, efficient offensive teams can overcome this.  Four of the Hornets five losses have come against teams with offensive efficiency ratings in the top 12 of the NBA (Oklahoma City, San Antonio, Utah, and Dallas).  This news bodes well for the Knicks who are currently 7th in the NBA in offensive efficiency (109.7)

What to watch for 1: New Orleans perimeter scoring. 

Since the trade with Toronto, the Hornets have had trouble getting efficient scoring from the supporting back court players.  Chris Paul (eFG% 54) has been solid but Jarret Jack–eFG% of 27.8 in 6 games–has been very bad.  Trevor Ariza has been bad all season (eFG% 45.7).  John Hollinger even took notice.  Belinelli (eFG% 55.3) has had several bad shooting nights since the trade as well.  Stopping Paul is a very difficult task, but it seems that Jack, Ariza, Willie Green (49.3), and Marcus Thornton (46.9) are quite stoppable.  The Knicks defensive effort should focus on pressuring Paul and forcing him to look to the wings to create offense. 

What to watch for 2: Pace.

The Hornets are a very strong defensive team and very good on the defensive glass.  The Knicks are not strong on the offense glass so it is doubtful the team will get many second chance shots particularly if Turiaf is out and Randolph rides the pine. This means the Knicks will need to push the pace and create offense in transition before the Hornets are able to get set.  In the half court, the Knicks need to get the best shot they can, not necessarily the first shot.

What to watch for 3: Turnovers.

The Hornets are in the top 10 of the NBA in forcing turnovers. The Knicks are in the bottom third of the NBA in give aways (though they have been better of late).  The Knicks have to make sure they take care of the ball.  The Hornets will slow the pace and limit the chances for scoring, so the Knicks need to be very efficient and make sure to keep the turnovers down.

What to watch for 4: Front court match ups.

Amar’e Stoudamire has been a beast on offense as of late, but Okafor and West present a formidable defensive front.  West’s talent on offense will present a challenge for either Stoudemire or Chandler.  If Turiaf’s sore knee keeps him out, then I’d really like to see D’Antoni give Anthony Randolph some quality playing time.  Randolph’s rebounding and defense can be very helpful against West (20.6/36 52.8 eFG%).

240 comments on “2010-2011 Game Preview/Thread: Knicks @ Hornets

  1. Thomas B. Post author

    Spree8nyk8:

      

    (Quote)

    Sigh.
    You could sneak the word “Firsties” around comments like “Hey Thomas, nice preview” or “Good points, TB.” and thereby decrease the likelihood of deletion. Even “Hey TB stop drinking the Kool-aid.” At least then you could be “firsties” in reading the preview.

  2. Spree8nyk8

    I mean you could have left Mikes thread, but I guess imposing your will due to an abuse of “internet” power was needed because god forbid someone have fun on this board lol. You go tommy b, you go! Congrats on the internet muscle flex lol.

  3. BigBlueAL

    Read on Twitter from one of the writers that D’Antoni said even if Turiaf is back Chandler will continue to start at PF for the near future and also it looks like Turiaf will have his minutes limited when he does play.

  4. Spree8nyk8

    Thomas B.:
    Sigh.
    You could sneak the word “Firsties” around comments like “Hey Thomas, nice preview” or “Good points, TB.” and thereby decrease the likelihood of deletion.Even “Hey TB stop drinking the Kool-aid.” At least then you could be “firsties” in reading the preview.  

    Well like I said, you didn’t have to delete Mike’s thread. And if you think about it, is this board for you? Or is this board for the fans? I’m here every game posting my thoughts, and me (and most others) have had a little fun posting firsties! in the game threads. It doesn’t happen in the other threads because the game threads are like a meetup place for us to kinda watch the game together. So maybe you could treat this as a fun place for the fans to come and congregate and stop looking for spots to piss in to mark your territory. The firsties thing was never done to piss you off, it was done for fun. Stop with the frownie fries already and being a forum nazi.

  5. BigBlueAL

    Hahn just said Turiaf is officially out tonight and West is a game-time decision due to a stomach ailment.

  6. Spree8nyk8

    Finally
    I
    Realy
    Suspect
    That
    If
    Each player
    Starts playing smart that we’ll get a win here.

    I can go all day tommy!

  7. BigBlueAL

    In all fairness to Thomas, the other blog I usually always read that has game threads (its a Yankees blog) also frowns upon people saying first or firsties or whatever.

  8. Spree8nyk8

    BigBlueAL: In all fairness to Thomas, the other blog I usually always read that has game threads (its a Yankees blog) also frowns upon people saying first or firsties or whatever.  

    Yeah, the Nazi’s burned books and didn’t let the Jews say Firsties either….

  9. Z

    I think we need to run a statistical analysis to determine whether there is a correlation between “firsties” and wins. (kind of like in 1989, when John Amarante sang the national anthem for 25 home games straight and the Knicks won them all. (correlation always equals causation when it comes to superstitions!!)).

  10. Spree8nyk8

    Z: I think we need to run a statistical analysis to determine whether there is a correlation between “firsties” and wins. (kind of like in 1989, when John Amarante sang the national anthem for 25 home games straight and the Knicks won them all. (correlation always equals causation when it comes to superstitions!!)).  

    I PROMISE our record is better when someone firsties a game thread…

  11. Spree8nyk8

    Anyone watch any Hornets home games? Just wondering how bad the announcers are gonna be today….

  12. Nick C.

    Nice write up. I didn’t quite get the trade tho Peja and Bayless were doing little, but Jack comes in and does less after at least putting up numbers in Toronto. Thornton scored a lot last year but must be hurt because he hasnt done much when he has played. If West is out does it mean Okafor is the designated big man to go off. Is it OK to say eighteenthsies?

  13. Spree8nyk8

    idk why this has bothered me but for the last few days if you look at the conference standings on espn.com they continue to list the lakers at 13-6 above New Orleans at 13-5. What is the deal with that?

  14. cgreene

    all the beat writers pimping for eddy curry to get run. you’d think might wanna see if he could make it through a dozen practices before throwing him out there.

  15. Sal D

    Hi everyone. I’m a longtime reader and this is my first post. Knickerblogger is excellent, I love the insight. Looking forward to a great game tonight, go Knicks!

    Anyone see the halftime score of NJ/Charlotte? 33-32 Charlotte, ouch.

  16. NYK Ewing

    God Gallo loves to start games off slow. I wish he went up stronger when he goes to the basket.

  17. Z

    Listening to John Andariese commentate the game on XM radio. Had no idea he was still at it. I feel like a 15 year old again.

  18. tastycakes

    marxster: Um, we aren’t allowed to say “firsties” around here?  

    This is a VERY SERIOUS BLOG about a professional basketball team. C’mon now!

    Thomas, great write-up, btw. Seems like the community here is a tad quiet, like people have other things to do on a Friday or something, go figure!

    New Orleans crowd is eerily quiet / hungover?

    Bad end to the first quarter after fighting back. Moz and Walker not doing what they need to be doing on the floor.

  19. Roshi

    With Mozgov, Walker, and Mason Jr. giving us absolutely zilch, we might as well have Randolph out there to learn through trial and error.

  20. Spree8nyk8

    I honestly believe that Mozgov is going to shake the nerves after awhile and have a breakout game. All of the mistakes he makes just look like Jittery mistakes…He always seems like a deer in headlights to me. They said in practice he does fine.

  21. NYK Ewing

    I’m rooting for the Russian every game but he keeps doing some stupid stuff. It still looks to me like a lack of confidence…

  22. Roshi

    Douglas has no clue what to do on the break…there is no hope for him as a distributor. Let him just fill the Nate Robinson role

  23. Roshi

    I feel like without David West we are better than this team. Not playing like it right now, though.

  24. BigBlueAL

    OK maybe I see now why Williams is playing ahead of AR. Forget he was a mid-1st round pick a few years ago, he does have some talent and most importantly he can shoot it.

  25. Roshi

    Seems like Gallo has faked himself out of a clean open shot about 8 times tonight…what is up with him?

  26. SeeWhyDee77

    Good minutes from..Shawne Williams? U sure we’re not in Bizzarro world? Right now we need AR’s defense but…he’s glued to the bench for his overall recent bouts of ineptitude. Sigh…

  27. Roshi

    Do we know if Randolph isn’t getting playing time because he stinks in practice or has a bad attitude?

  28. cgreene

    Amare keeping us in it. Felton playing way too many minutes. This team is THIN right now.

    Gallo awful so far. Man, this guy really can’t get consistent.

  29. Thomas B. Post author

    I did not expect to see Shawne Williams tonight, but I’m glad he is here. I’ve heard good things said about him in practice and if Walker isnt going to give us anything, we might as well see what he can do.

  30. Frank O.

    Williams has kept the Knicks in after the Mos jitters.
    He was getting open. Fumbled the first pass, but cleaned that up. Then he tried a few french pastries.
    Needs to tear down the rim.

  31. ltmurray

    lol. MSG shows an iso of D’Antoni calling out plays and yelling “GALLO! GALLO!” Wonder who the shot’s going to? Danilo gets it, and hits it!

  32. NYK Ewing

    I guess the reason I’m so hard on Gallo is because I fall asleep at the half of every game on MSG….

  33. ess-dog

    Strange game so far. N.O. either needs to slash their ticket prices or move that team somewhere else…

  34. Spree8nyk8

    The crappy thing about this game is that even if the Knicks win the media will have nothing good to say about it because the Hornets have slowed down as of late and West is out. Instead of them focusing on a team winning 6 straight road games they’ll look at how lucky they were for circumstances.

  35. Frank O.

    The Knicks beat this team.
    They’re slow and they have a problem because they can’t defend inside and out. If Knicks bury their outsiders, Amare will run wild.
    And the Hornets have no depth.

    i could be wrong…but I don’t think so.

  36. cgreene

    Spree8nyk8: The crappy thing about this game is that even if the Knicks win the media will have nothing good to say about it because the Hornets have slowed down as of late and West is out.Instead of them focusing on a team winning 6 straight road games they’ll look at how lucky they were for circumstances.  

    Been thinking about the continuing weirdness of the coverage even by local reporters. (kind of got into it the other night after Nets game w Hahn where he DM’d me to defend himself as non-negative1… i must admit i was a little buzzed having been in attendance… but i digress). I think it is ok that the Knicks get belittled more for a while. Let them continue to fly below the radar with low expectations. Occasionally teams will still take them for granted and they won’t get over confident by getting national attention.

  37. Thomas B. Post author

    Nice first half showing the Knicks doing what they need to do to win this game. Knicks eFG% is 56.9. Knicks are ahead on turnovers and dimes, but are getting beaten on the boards 16-25. They are keeping Paul from scoring (4pts, 7 ast on 1-2 fg). And it helps so much to have David West sitting this one out.

    Surprise of the first half was Shawne Williams doing what we all thought Roger Mason jr was going to be doing. Thank goodness for him as the rest of the bench has been well not good.

  38. Nick C.

    They needed that time out after some ugly possessions. The question I have is when Felton needs a break who can take over for him?

  39. cgreene

    Nick C.: They needed that time out after some ugly possessions. The question I have is when Felton needs a break who can take over for him?  

    He’s played 31 mins with 15 mins to go

  40. latke

    This is Amare’s best game of the season. He’s getting inside and scoring, while showing confidence in his teammates when he’s not in scoring position. Chris Paul has not looked good. What happened to getting to the rim? And when he’s gotten there, he has looked pretty weak on the finishes. Chandler has gotten a lot of good shots with his back to the basket, but he’s missed them. Really worried here about the minutes for Felton and Amare — felton has played 31/33 minutes and Stoudemire 29/33.

  41. Frank O.

    Knicks have a lot of depth.
    TD is playing nice D, and our interior D has been pretty effective in keeping Paul from penetrating.
    Knicks DEFEND the RIM these days!

  42. Spree8nyk8

    Hmmmm, do you have a clever graph about douchebags that worry about what other people write on an internet forum?

  43. Droidz1979

    Love Felton’s hustle! Amare and him are starting to click in the PNR.. Would say Walsh is a genius getting him at a bargain price just like Fields…

    And am liking what i see from Shawne Williams.. The Knicks can actually win this game if Will stops taking 3’s and takes it strong to the hoop and Gallo plays consistent. Love that Paul is playing frustrated so far but am keeping my fingers crossed that it stays that way.

  44. Droidz1979

    Knicks playing some D! I could get used to this..glad West is not playing, evens out Turiaf’s absence.. to some extent i guess

  45. Spree8nyk8

    Really wish the Knicks would slow down the 3 pt shooting when they have double digit leads…

    And Williams before I could finish

  46. tastycakes

    Had them on the ropes a couple of times, then missed 3s… hopefully it won’t come back to bite us! Still looking good, but a long way to go.

  47. Nick C.

    Shawne Williams is a pleasant surprise for sure. He is gonna be taking Walker’s minutes which I won’t complain about.

  48. Droidz1979

    Am praying that Paul keeps stuck on the bench and Ariza keeps taking that outside shots.. glad he is not in the Knicks uniform anymore

  49. Spree8nyk8

    I was worried this game had blowout potential…..Didn’t know it had POSITIVE blowout potential though!

  50. Droidz1979

    Refs are trying to bring back the Hornets into the game tsk tsk worried about the 3’s that the Knicks are hurling though am glad that they are making it.. hope this does not go into Will’s head and think that he is a 3 point specialist though, might be bad for the succeeding games when it starts to not fall

  51. cgreene

    Hahn tweeting a lot and announcers talking a lot about Paul’s health. He is not at all aggressive. I have to say that I think his long term health is a real issue. Just seems awkward.

  52. Thomas B. Post author

    The Knicks are really taking advantage of the Hornets tonight. It is a great thing to see. The team is shooting well, winning the turnover battle and either playing Paul correctly or he just isnt himself (the knee). I thought the Knicks could play well against in N.O. it’s nice to be right once and awhile.

  53. Thomas B. Post author

    Spree8nyk8:

    I was worried this game had blowout potential…..Didn’t know it had POSITIVE blowout potential though!  

    (Quote)

    Well had you read the preview then started posting…
    See I’m not all bad.

  54. Spree8nyk8

    Looked early like the Knicks were going to get a bunch of standings help with Atlanta, Charlotte, Orlando, and Toronto all trailing, but all of them came back and won :(

  55. Spree8nyk8

    Thomas B.:
    Well had you read the preview then started posting…
    See I’m not all bad.  

    Oh don’t get me wrong, I thought the Knicks could win, but I saw this game either being a close Knicks win or a blowout loss, I didn’t think they had any chance to win this game by ten or more.

  56. Thomas B. Post author

    Frank O.:

    Gonna give you two a time out. :)  

    (Quote)

    Why, we are practically friends now? When the Knicks play well, all is healed, all is forgiven.

  57. Frank O.

    What I like about the Knicks is they come in waves. They pound inside, rain from outside. The defend the rim and pressure the ball.
    They just always put pressure on the bad guys.
    Still haven’t figured out what to do with a strong big, but in time, I suspect they can figure that out.

  58. Frank O.

    Thomas B.:
    Why, we are practically friends now? When the Knicks play well, all is healed, all is forgiven.  

    I’ve got two boys like that here at home….:)

  59. Spree8nyk8

    And Thomas don’t get me wrong, I don’t think you’re a bad guy at all, I love all Knicks fans. But the firsties thing is just funny stuff, and I just don’t think people need to be all super serious about policing a public forum. I do enjoy your writeups for what it’s worth…

  60. Droidz1979

    Good D from the knicks so far, they’re getting the stops when they need to.. would love to get used to this though

  61. Frank O.

    Frank O.: The Knicks beat this team.
    They’re slow and they have a problem because they can’t defend inside and out. If Knicks bury their outsiders, Amare will run wild.
    And the Hornets have no depth.
    i could be wrong…but I don’t think so.  

    Hate to quote myself, but this seemed obvious to me.

  62. Droidz1979

    Good thing Reggie Miller is not on the Hornets team to score 8 in 8 seconds time.. hope its safe to say that we’ve won this game already

  63. Frank O.

    They’ve won 8 of last 9, and now they beat a “good” team in their house.
    I’m getting close to feeling like this is a potentially very good team.
    A lot of depth. Sound defense, and a super star in literally all aspects of the game.
    And Ray is smooth as felt.
    :)

  64. BigBlueAL

    Best part of tonight’s win, I am not even surprised. God help me, but Im beginning to expect the Knicks to win games now. Something must be wrong with me….

  65. Frank O.

    BigBlueAL: Best part of tonight’s win, I am not even surprised.God help me, but Im beginning to expect the Knicks to win games now.Something must be wrong with me….  

    I feel the same about the winning, but I’m okay with it…:)

  66. Droidz1979

    BigBlueAL: Best part of tonight’s win, I am not even surprised. God help me, but Im beginning to expect the Knicks to win games now. Something must be wrong with me….  (Quote)

    strange world out there.. Knicks winning! and then Shawne Williams?! sweet!

  67. Thomas B. Post author

    Spree8nyk8:

    And Thomas don’t get me wrong, I don’t think you’re a bad guy at all, I love all Knicks fans. But the firsties thing is just funny stuff, and I just don’t think people need to be all super serious about policing a public forum. I do enjoy your writeups for what it’s worth…  

    (Quote)

    Well I am a softy for funny. So I guess I can get off the high horse and stop flexing my internet muscles here at admin-gestapo central command.

  68. Spree8nyk8

    Thomas B.:
    Well I am a softy for funny. So I guess I can get off the high horse and stop flexing my internet muscles here at admin-gestapo central command.  

    New BFF

  69. cgreene

    How do we get Ted back?

    Not to put a damper on things but I don’t think this Hornets team will end up winning more than 45 games. They got off to a hot start. Paul was playing great. Now he seems unhealthy. Their team is not good offensively even with West. I think they are 2-6 in their last 8.

  70. BG

    This is the type of game the knicks would have found a way to lose in the past ( or more likely never have a chance in). Im starting to feel like this team can really make some noise. On another note when do we start to think of felton as the point guard of the future and use our cap space elsewhere such as go to scorer on the wing or a defensive big man who can help out amare when/if we play against big teams in the playoffs like Boston Orlando etc.

  71. Droidz1979

    BG: This is the type of game the knicks would have found a way to lose in the past ( or more likely never have a chance in). Im starting to feel like this team can really make some noise. On another note when do we start to think of felton as the point guard of the future and use our cap space elsewhere such as go to scorer on the wing or a defensive big man who can help out amare when/if we play against big teams in the playoffs like Boston Orlando etc.  (Quote)

    agree with you on that one, instead of getting paul or melo and shredding the rest of the roster aka the Heat model, it might be a smart/prudent thing to invest in getting a decent big who is not injury prone and let Turiaf be the back-up while Mozgov learns the ropes minus the pressure. We can also try our luck in getting picks as Walsh sure can draft and hope that he remains healthy.

  72. nicos

    Great win. Sub-par games for Gallo, Chandler, & Fields and still had a nice cushion down the stretch- I think they’ve had double digit fourth quarter leads in every game during this road winning streak- pretty impressive no matter who you’re playing. A little concerned with both Amar’e and Felton up over 40 minutes. It’ll be interesting to see if Timo gets any PT on Sunday- that Douglas, Fields, Chandler, Williams, Gallo lineup that D’Antoni played in the third might work against Toronto but it won’t against Minnesota. We really need to get something out of either Timo or AR because I have a feeling Turiaf’s going to be having knee issues all year.

  73. Z-man

    I was not impressed by NO at all, even considering that West was out. CP3 looks gimpy, maybe permanently. Okafor is limited. Aria is limited. I predict that this is the beginning of a fall from grace for the Hornets.

    That said, great win. What is nice is that our wins have some consistency to them. Holding on to leads in crunch time, guys making big shots, winning w/o Turiaf, Amar’e playing like an all-NBA player, Ray-Ray atching CP3 and all comers, etc., lovin’ it!!

  74. BigBlueAL

    I know the Hornets arent a very good offensive team plus they were missing West but still nice job by the Knicks holding them to 43% shooting and forcing 18 to’s.

  75. hoolahoop

    Forget CP3. Forget Carmello.
    The missing piece is Greg Oden. Portland already said they will not resign him. If he can play healthy the knicks will have a real stopper in the middle and a premier rebounder that can run the floor on offense.
    Wed got the point guard. We got the power forward. And we have Gallo, WC, and Fields to fill out the roster. LET’S GO KNICKS!

  76. Frank O.

    hoolahoop: Forget CP3. Forget Carmello.
    The missing piece is Greg Oden. Portland already said they will not resign him. If he can play healthy the knicks will have a real stopper in the middle and a premier rebounder that can run the floor on offense.
    Wed got the point guard. We got the power forward. And we have Gallo, WC, and Fields to fill out the roster. LET’S GO KNICKS!  

    Oden? Seriously.
    He’d be the first person in history to shatter his third patella.

  77. Spree8nyk8

    I’m never going to understand the freakazoid math Hollinger uses to make his daily power rankings, where the Knicks have dropped 3 spots after winning 3 games, at 11-9 the Knicks are BEHIND the 6-11 Bobcats despite beating them twice in the last week and beating the team they just lost to. When you have a 6-11 team ahead of an 11-9 team you seriously have some crazy gorilla math.

  78. Spree8nyk8

    hoolahoop: Forget CP3. Forget Carmello.
    The missing piece is Greg Oden. Portland already said they will not resign him. If he can play healthy the knicks will have a real stopper in the middle and a premier rebounder that can run the floor on offense.
    Wed got the point guard. We got the power forward. And we have Gallo, WC, and Fields to fill out the roster. LET’S GO KNICKS!  

    You can’t sign Oden to anything larger than a league minimum contract, it just wouldn’t make sense.

  79. Z-man

    Robert Silverman: Alas, missed the game tonight. looks like a good win. Go NY go NY go!  

    Bummer, RS, great game for the good guys.

    More and more, I am souring on the idea of getting CP3. Looks like we’ll get a mid first rounder next year, let’s hope there is a good backup PG there and hold on for Deron Williams.

  80. Z-man

    hoolahoop: Forget CP3. Forget Carmello.
    The missing piece is Greg Oden. Portland already said they will not resign him. If he can play healthy the knicks will have a real stopper in the middle and a premier rebounder that can run the floor on offense.
    Wed got the point guard. We got the power forward. And we have Gallo, WC, and Fields to fill out the roster. LET’S GO KNICKS!  

    Oden could be intriguing at the right price. Could he be like McDyess after we ditched him?

  81. rama

    Free agents: We all know about CP3 and Deron in 2012…and we all could see tonight that maybe CP3 isn’t going to be functional by 2012 – and RayRay is pretty good for this team. Hoolahoop is right that we should maybe look elsewhere, like the 5. Problem is, the only decent 5s coming available soon are Gasol and Oden, both restricted. it’s going to be tough to find a great 5; I think we’re either going to have to trade or develop Moz and/or AR.

    Odd that we will have all this cap room but almost no one to spend it on. We have a deep team, but there are clearly holes…just not a lot of top players to fill those holes.

    This is where Ted Nelson could shine. Who’s on your list for 2011, Ted?????

  82. nicos

    It’ll be interesting to see what happens with Oden- I’ll be surprised if he doesn’t get at least something like a two year $10m deal- and while Portland may have said they’re not going to re-sign him, you have to think they’ll at least try to do a sign and trade. Look, if he’s healthy he’s a top 10 center- probably top 5; someone (Miami? Knicks?) will be willing to take a short term gamble in hopes of scoring big.

  83. Z

    @150 Tyson Chandler, Nene, Kendrick Perkins, Yao, David West, Pyrzybilla, Dalembert, Carl Landry, and Tim Duncan are all unrestricted free agent big men next summer.

    Plus Carmelo, Battier, and a few other less big men that could make a team better. Wouldn’t say there’s no one to spend it on…

    …except for the fact that there will be no one to spend it on because of the lockout :(

  84. Thomas B. Post author

    Here is confirmation of just how good Landry Fields is:

    He had a 6 point, 9 rebound (8 more than our 6’10 SF and only two fewer than the center), 4 assist, 3 t/o game with a +14, but people still say he had a horrible game. Wow.

    That isnt horrible. If that is the worst we see from Fields, then I’ll be very very happy.

  85. BigBlueAL

    Thomas B.: Here is confirmation of just how good Landry Fields is:He had a 6 point, 9 rebound (8 more than our 6’10 SF and only two fewer than the center), 4 assist, 3 t/o game with a +14, but people still say he had a horrible game.Wow.That isnt horrible. If that is the worst we see from Fields, then I’ll be very very happy.  

    If he can become a good 3pt shooter then he can probably take that next step in terms of increasing his scoring w/o needing more shots. Especially in this offense where he constantly gets wide open looks from 3pt range.

  86. d-mar

    Just got back from poker night and watched the game on DVR, and I’ve gotta say, Amare is just an out and out beast. How cool is it to have the guy you go to when the other team is sniffing a comeback, and he just overwhelms the defender and gets his? Okafor is supposed to be a good defender, and Amare just ate him alive. Between Amare and Felton, they are just playing at a really high level with tons of confidence. 8-4 on the road, are you kidding me??

  87. ASyrett19

    Maybe the Knicks can find a way to play more road games. Another big win.
    @152 Tyson Chandler would look really good on this team. He’s a proven pick and roller and a solid defender. Him and Turiaf would be a very formidable center tandem.

  88. bob cook

    A lot of us like to play General Manager and there’s often a lot of acumen behind the comments made about various players. But I think we’d all agree that there’s an element of luck in foreseeing how a guy will fit in with a new team, new system. Sometimes they blossom; sometimes…they’re Eddie Curry.

    But there was a group that, early on, was saying that Felton was not an upgrade over Duhon. Time for retractions, no? In light of what’s been going on on the court it’s like saying the Beatles were not an upgrade over the Monkees.

  89. Abasi

    It’s nice to see the team winning, but Amare and Felton are playing very, very long minutes. There is cause for concern there, but it’s good to see the team playing with a winning attitude.

    And for those who said Amare was not a big improvement over David Lee, do you really need stats to know they are in different leagues? Amare is a franchise player – Lee is a very good rotation player.

  90. david

    I really hope we win at least 3 of the next 4 — we’ll need the cushion going into the horror stretch that follows that (13 of the next 14 against teams with winning records).

    THe win tonight was encouraging — only 2nd win (is that right?) over an above .500 and on the road no less (although them not having West was a nice bump for us). I’m worried about Amare and Felton’s minutes too, but they are playing fantastically (the pnr is good, as is the rest of their game). Chandler was even hitting 3s. Shawne Williams playing surprised me, but until Azu comes back, we need some depth on the wings, and he was alright. Mozgov needs some new hands, but I liked how Felton hit him on the roll — he should have had two consecutive dunks.

  91. Frank O.

    bob cook: A lot of us like to play General Manager and there’s often a lot of acumen behind the comments made about various players.But I think we’d all agree that there’s an element of luck in foreseeing how a guy will fit in with a new team, new system.Sometimes they blossom; sometimes…they’re Eddie Curry.But there was a group that, early on, was saying that Felton was not an upgrade over Duhon.Time for retractions, no?In light of what’s been going on on the court it’s like saying the Beatles were not an upgrade over the Monkees.  

    Agreed. Fess up Felton haters…:)

  92. hoolahoop

    The way the Knicks are playing right now, I think picking up Carmelo would be awful. I see him as disrupting the on court chemistry and flow of the offense. Let’s not make the mistake Miami did. We need complimentary pieces, not superstars that can watch each other try to score. The knicks should be looking for a 5, a defensive big man to shut down the lane that can also get out and run the floor. No scoring necessary. The other missing piece is a good 2 or 3 that can shoot lights out. TD and Gallo are not getting it done.
    With a guy like Oden in the middle and consistent 3 point shooter the Knicks can be an elite team.

  93. ess-dog

    Z: @150 Tyson Chandler, Nene, Kendrick Perkins, Yao, David West, Pyrzybilla, Dalembert, Carl Landry, and Tim Duncan are all unrestricted free agent big men next summer.
    Plus Carmelo, Battier, and a few other less big men that could make a team better. Wouldn’t say there’s no one to spend it on……except for the fact that there will be no one to spend it on because of the lockout :(  

    I am also a Tyson Chandler fan after seeing him play this summer and after his hot start this year. So far in Dallas, his stats are ridiculous. I would guess there’s about a 75% chance that Dallas re-signs him asap, but if he hits the market, I’d go after him. It all depends on what his price would be.
    At this point, I would wait to see if we can get Melo via free agency and then work some sign and trade for T. Chandler if possible.
    I think as opposed to getting a ‘big three’ it might be prudent to go after a big 9 or 10 so that D’Antoni had a full roster of very good players with maybe one or two stars. That path is starting to make more sense. A rotation consisting of Felton, Fields, Melo, Stat, Tyson, Gallo, TD, Turiaf and one or two of Chandler, Walker, Williams, Timo and AR depending on who we have to trade would be really really solid.

  94. Z-man

    I would guess that Amar’e’s stature around the league is growing, now that he has shown that it wasn’t all Nash to those who were skeptical. What has surprised me is the variety of ways he an score. He seems to lose focus at times, especially defensively, but when the game is on the line he seems to up his intensity. His shot-blocking is way better than I had hoped.

    Felton is definitely playing through a sore back, he was wincing as one point last night. Hope it doesn’t get worse.

  95. Frank O.

    Had an interesting conversation with my wife this morning. She noted that it appears as if the Knicks seem to really like each other. She said last year, it seemed as if no one ever spoke to Gallo.
    This year, you see Gallo with an arm around the shoulder of Felton or his hand on Amare’s head. These guys seem to genuinely like playing together.
    The dynamic reminds me a little of the Sacramento Kings of the 1998-99 season, with Webber, Vlade and Williams and Williamson. And Stoy.
    They liked to play together. They had fun on the court. The ball flew around and things happened.
    I actually think the Knicks protect the ball better than that team and are better at PF and PG. But there are similarities.

    Winning helps that dynamic. That’s why it’s silly to underrate beating the weak teams. They are building confidence and a feeling of success. I mean how crushing is it to a team to lose games to bad teams they know they should have beaten?

    Depth. You can’t underestimate the Knicks depth. Walker wasn’t productive. Insert Williams and let him nail some threes. Turiaf goes down? Shift Amare to the 5 and give WC more burn.
    I think the Knicks will need to trust Douglas more. Felton can’t go 40 every night. And they need to suffer thru Mosgov until he figures it out. I mean, he’s getting there. He’s catching the passes on the PnR and getting to the hoop. He needs more aggression. You can’t be a center in the NBA and hesitate in the paint. He simply needs to elevate and use the monster body to jam the ball home and get fouled. If they can teach him more aggression in the paint, he’ll get to the line, get their big men in foul trouble and he can shoot the foul shot.
    Last night, you could see what he can be. His defense was pretty sound.

    D’Antoni needs to get wins now, while he can, because he sees that killer schedule ahead. So he’s logging big minutes with Felton and Amare now. Feast when you can.
    But he’s going to need Mosgov and TD…

  96. Z

    ASyrett19: Maybe the Knicks can find a way to play more road games.   

    All they need to do is knock a little more asbestos onto the playing surface…

  97. Z-man

    Don’t look now, but we have the 5th best record in the East (6th in terms of playoff rankings because Bulls are leading their division.

  98. Frank O.

    Z-man: I would guess that Amar’e’s stature around the league is growing…What has surprised me is the variety of ways he an score.He seems to lose focus at times, especially defensively, but when the game is on the line he seems to up his intensity…  

    What I like about the Knicks is that they can get stops when they need them. They have shot blockers that keeps players like Paul out of the paint. Guards are not penetrating because the Knicks are rotating Amare, WC, Turiaf or Mosgov to challenge shots. Their rotations are quicker and more responsive. They contest stuff.
    Ted and I had a long discussion about the Knicks D. He objected to the phrase situational D, and that’s fine. I think they have the ability to make key plays when needed, and that reflects the D’Antoni belief that the team that scores the most points had the best defense. It seems to underrate defense in general, but I’m beginning to see the genius in that kind of thinking. There is a beauty in the kind of game D’Antoni plays. Last night the Knicks played and ugly defensive team. They were slow and plodding and grinding. The Knicks are a free flowing team that has the ability in key moments to get a shot blocked, or a pass intercepted.
    They also have players whose roles are clearly defined on defense.
    But the key is to get into an advantageous offensive flow, let that build in waves, and when needed they get stops.
    Last night, the game was relatively close in the third, and then the Knicks got a stop, I think a block, and they came down and hit a 3. Another stop, and another 3. And then again. Suddenly, that game felt over.
    The Hornays coach last night said their turnovers were unacceptable because they Knicks don’t pressure the ball. But that’s crap: The Knicks hands are up. People are watching the ball. They’re stepping into passing lanes. Saying that means u…

  99. rama

    “All they need to do is knock a little more asbestos onto the playing surface…”

    Z, I was thinking that, too. How incredibly lucky was that timing!? They were staggering, and because of not having to play a great Orlando team, were able to recover a bit.

    But….

    Z: @150 Tyson Chandler, Nene, Kendrick Perkins, Yao, David West, Pyrzybilla, Dalembert, Carl Landry, and Tim Duncan are all unrestricted free agent big men next summer.
    Plus Carmelo, Battier, and a few other less big men that could make a team better. Wouldn’t say there’s no one to spend it on……except for the fact that there will be no one to spend it on because of the lockout :(  

    Aside from the lockout, most of the players won’t be available. Tim Duncan? Yao? Seriously. And why would you list Landry and West? They’re PFs. As for Nene, nono. Very good player, but overlaps too much with Amare. Pyrzybilla, basically a better rebounding version of Turiaf; not a starter. Perkins, need to see him come back from the injury, and would he leave the Celts? That leaves only Dalembert, who I confess I was always high on but is playing poorly for a poor team, and Chandler, who I thought had already been extended. I expect Dallas will try, but if they don’t offer him enough, we should give him a short contract at or near the max, which is probably better than what Dallas would do, and it would be worth it to have a complementary 5 next to Amare these next three years or so. Get CP3 and we’d have a supertalented, very deep team with only about two healthy knees among them!

  100. danvt

    So happy!

    I get a positive feeling even when this team is down. Like watching the Nash/ Amar’e Suns. They can explode and make up ground quickly, based on pace.

    Amar’e is even better than advertised as is Felton and Fields. Gallo needs to be more consistent but he can rise up in a flash as well and never seems to have a bad game anymore.

    Too many minutes for Stat and Felton.

    Love Fields. When he comes back in I get a feeling of confidence. That’s just amazing from a rook 2nd rounder. Thanks Donnie!

    Donnie said if Lee came back then no Felton and now I see the logic. This guy is a good GM.

    Glad to see this roster doing well. Now, hopefully, we don’t panic and send 3 good young players somewhere for an overpriced Vet. We can play well, try to stay at .500% (or better!) and wait for the opportunity to put us into elite status.

  101. hoolahoop

    From what I understand, the d’antoni system emphasizes defense in the fourth quarter, after they have run the other team to exhaustion.
    Interesting concept if you’re team is well conditioned.

  102. Z

    @168

    There are also a few restricted FA centers next summer: Marc Gasol, DeAndre Jordan, Spencer Hawes, and the aforementioned Greg Oden.

  103. JK47

    We just played two slow-paced teams (NJN and NOH) and were able to impose our fast pace on them, and won both games. This is pretty encouraging.

    But I don’t agree that the team has very good depth. We have five quality rotation players (Amar’e, Chandler, Gallo, Felton, Fields) an iffy backup guard (Douglas) an injury-prone, rebounding-deficient big man (Turiaf) and a bunch of guys who are hopes and prayers (Mozgov, Randolph, Williams, Walker, Mason). Right now there are too many guys on the roster who are giving us zilch in terms of production. D’Antoni is back to playing a very small rotation and sooner or later this is going to come back to haunt us. We need a reasonably decent backup PG and a serviceable big who can give us more than Mozgov’s usual three minutes.

  104. Brian Cronin

    And for those who said Amare was not a big improvement over David Lee, do you really need stats to know they are in different leagues? Amare is a franchise player – Lee is a very good rotation player.

    This is how Shannon Stewart nearly won the AL MVP back in 2003.

  105. danvt

    I feel like last nights win is one of the most important for us in years. All of us fans are thinking that .500% in early December will be the high water mark and they go ahead and set the bar higher with a road win (THEIR 6TH IN A ROW) against a playoff type team (who should have gotten it done despite West being out. Prediction: it will get ugly with CP3 vs. NO)

    Amar’e seems to expect to win, more so than any of us fans. He might be the best player we’ve had since Ewing. I was kind of expecting lots of points on lots of shots and little effect on wins but he has taken the whole team to a new level. Very skilled, adept shooter, smart, and huge clutch blocked shots! Kind of kills the whole Nash’s little brother narrative. We’re a half game better than the Suns right now.

  106. Brian Cronin

    Great win. The best part about it for me is that I was in a cab during the fourth quarter and the cabbie actually had the game on! I never get a cab driver who actually plays sports on the radio!

  107. tastycakes

    It could definitely be a rough month ahead, no question, but we’ll see what this team is really made of.

    It’s just funny, as a Knicks fan through the dark decade, I watch games like last night, where they seem fully in control, and still expect things to suddenly unravel. This has definitely happened this season, against Portland early and then more scarily against Minnesota on the road. After the MIN game, one might have thought “same old Knicks,” but it doesn’t feel like that right now.

    8 wins in 9 games? I don’t care who the competition is, that’s impressive.

    I am really enjoying the core 5 guys play together — Amar’e, Felton, Fields, Gallo, Chandler. Azubuike coming back should be a really good thing. Would be nice to see AR contribute at some point this season, but he’s looking pretty dog-housed at the moment.

    So let’s hope it keeps up, and we continue to beat the cream puffs in the immediate future. Can’t wait for Knicks-Heat on 12/17!

  108. Brian Cronin

    I am really enjoying the core 5 guys play together — Amar’e, Felton, Fields, Gallo, Chandler.

    One of the best things about the Turiaf injury is that it ensures Fields closes out games. I, too, love seeing the main five play together. Although D’Antoni probably shouldn’t be so afraid of Mozgov and Toney that Amar’e and Felton never get any rest.

  109. danvt

    Brian Cronin: D’Antoni probably shouldn’t be so afraid of Mozgov and Toney that Amar’e and Felton never get any rest. 

    I completely agree.

    On Tina Fey Mozgov: I think it’s significant that he’s getting minutes at all for coach Mike considering Darko couldn’t even crack the rotation in an entire season. It’s just that if he struggles he needs to get out rather than grow at the teams expense. I think he’ll play well. Maybe AR too, but look at Shawne!

  110. Z

    Brian Cronin:
    One of the best things about the Turiaf injury is that it ensures Fields closes out games.   

    Except that Shawne Williams closed out the game last night instead of Fields. Last 3 minutes were Williams, Gallo, Felton, Amare, and Chandler. Looks like he’s going to be in the rotation going forward. Pretty cool.

  111. Z-man

    It is great to see that Amar’e is not intimidated by the challenge of putting the franchise on his shoulders. His early hype upon being signed set him up for harsh treatment if he didn’t deliver. Still a ways to go, but could he have done any more than he ha done in terms of leadership? He called the team out during the losing streak and they responded big time. His stats are very comparable to last year, slightly lower TS% and rebounds and higher TOs, but more assists and blocks. If you throw out his first 4 games, he might actually be playing better than last year.

    The one thing that seems weird is that his offensive and defensive ratings are much closer together than they generally were in PHX. I’m not a big fan of those stats or WS for that matter, but it is hard to figure why that happened, given the similarity of his stats.

  112. Z-man

    I agree that we are not really that deep. We really need a 10-15mpg backup PG. As far as a C is concerned, yeah, it is a problem but for now we can get by with what we have.

    Re: Next years FA centers, I think Turiaf has shown that we don’t need a stud, just a mobile, defensive-minded guy with smarts and some basic passing/rebounding skills. Mark Gasol, Pyrzybilla or Hawes would be fine at the right price, if healthy. Of course, maybe Mozgov develops? Tyson Chandler or Oden probably aren’t happening.

  113. Z-man

    Since I’m on a roll, Wilson Chandler is playing to a career high PER of 17+, had a TS of 54%, is shooting 34% from 3 despite taking over 5 a game and getting off to an horrendous start, has career-high numbers almost across the board, and is among the league leaders in blocked shots at 6’8″. So, it seems that instead of getting better by shooting less/more selectively, he is getting better while actually shooting more! He is blossoming into an incredibly valuable player, is there still anyone out there who would trade him for Rudy Fernandez? Good for him. (And us!)

  114. Peter87

    Thanks a million to whoever pointed out the site atdhe.net…finally after many years of living in Europe I can watch the games!
    Only problem is, I have to stay up till 4 or 5 am to follow the live stream…is there any way to download the game a few hours after it’s over, so I can watch it in the morning? Someone mentioned http://bt.davka.info/ but most knick games don’t appear there, and if they do it’s several days late.

    When I can’t stay up to watch a game, I relive the game by reading the knickerblogger thread the next morning before I look at the final result, so thanks for that…I just have a small request; every now and then, before (or after) your comments, put a (+6) or (-4) so I can follow how the score is going during the comments.

    I’m also loving this team, and think perhaps Donnie Walsh is their MVP.

  115. danvt

    Z-man: So, it seems that instead of getting better by shooting less/more selectively, he is getting better while actually shooting more! He is blossoming into an incredibly valuable player, is there still anyone out there who would trade him for Rudy Fernandez? Good for him. (And us!)  

    I was gonna ask if it was just me or is Will a lot better. I agree. Most of the trade scenarios being bandied about in camp seem like great “no deals” at this point.

    Seems like the games Toney missed have set him back but he has had good moments this year. When Turiaf gets back Stat and Felton can sit more hopefully.

  116. Z-man

    danvt:
    I was gonna ask if it was just me or is Will a lot better.I agree.Most of the trade scenarios being bandied about in camp seem like great “no deals” at this point.Seems like the games Toney missed have set him back but he has had good moments this year.When Turiaf gets back Stat and Felton can sit more hopefully.  

    Re Chandler, not just this year, too many here have trashed WC since year 1 and especially last year, expressing deep skepticism about whether he would ever develop into a front-line NBA player, calling him soft, a no-conscience chucker, dumb, etc. The guy was 21-22 and so many were writing him off and saying how much better Ariza and even Balkman were than WC.

    (On the other hand, I have pretty much bailed on AR for now, despite his youth! Despite a year+in the NBA, he seems more raw than a HS player. Would love for him to prove me wrong. Ironically, nobody was higher on him than me before the season started!)

    Re: Turiaf, I thnk you should have said “IF Turiaf gets back….”

  117. hoolahoop

    Z-man:
    Re Chandler, not just this year, too many here have trashed WC since year 1 and especially last year, expressing deep skepticism about whether he would ever develop into a front-line NBA player, calling him soft, a no-conscience chucker, dumb, etc.The guy was 21-22 and so many were writing him off and saying how much better Ariza and even Balkman were than WC.(On the other hand, I have pretty much bailed on AR for now, despite his youth!Despite a year+in the NBA, he seems more raw than a HS player. Would love for him to prove me wrong.Ironically, nobody was higher on him than me before the season started!)Re: Turiaf, I thnk you should have said “IF Turiaf gets back….”  

    I think WC adds a lot to this team. He’s athletic and aggressive. I can’t say every shot he took was a good one, but when the team is playing like crap everybody looks worse. I think he makes enough three’s to keep taking them. (Reminds me of Antoine Walker’s reply to why he took so many three’s? “Cause there ain’t no 4’s!”)

  118. hoolahoop

    Peter87: Thanks a million to whoever pointed out the site atdhe.net…finally after many years of living in Europe I can watch the games!
    Only problem is, I have to stay up till 4 or 5 am to follow the live stream…is there any way to download the game a few hours after it’s over, so I can watch it in the morning?Someone mentioned http://bt.davka.info/ but most knick games don’t appear there, and if they do it’s several days late.When I can’t stay up to watch a game, I relive the game by reading the knickerblogger thread the next morning before I look at the final result, so thanks for that…I just have a small request; every now and then, before (or after) your comments, put a (+6) or (-4) so I can follow how the score is going during the comments.I’m also loving this team, and think perhaps Donnie Walsh is their MVP.  

    I know what you mean. Because I don’t have a tv, before I found atdhe.com I would watch the game by reading posts here in real time and switching back and forth with foxsports.com to see the score and stats. Pretty pathetic.

  119. danvt

    Z-man: Re: Turiaf, I thnk you should have said “IF Turiaf gets back….”  

    True.

    I think there are only two players right now who are indispensable to our hopes. That’s Amar’e and Raymond. Interesting to have clarity on this. Seems like others can step up at other positions. Chandler starting for, essentially, Turiaf actually made that group a little better. Also, Williams did what Gallo does as well as Gallo did in last nights game. We have no one else who can really do what Stat and Felton can. Obviously it’s easier to think about picking up a good backup PG than it is to pick up a back up an all star/ go to PF. Long term I think 5 is the position that really could use an upgrade.

  120. Brian Cronin

    Except that Shawne Williams closed out the game last night instead of Fields. Last 3 minutes were Williams, Gallo, Felton, Amare, and Chandler. Looks like he’s going to be in the rotation going forward. Pretty cool.

    I think that had more to do with the lead than anything else. If it were a close game, I don’t think Williams would be out there instead of Fields.

    But yes, the fact that Williams has legitimately worked his way into the rotation is very cool.

  121. rama

    I’m just not that worried about the 5. I mean, would I offer Tyson Chandler a max deal for say, 3 years, if he’s available in the offseason? Absolutely. He would be HUGE for this team. But after that, the options aren’t great. We could obviously chase MGasol and Oden, but I doubt Memphis would let Gasol go (especially if they thought Gay was worth that asinine contract), and I don’t think the Knicks can afford to make any mistakes yet – and Oden could be a mistake. Which is of course why he might be gettable, but…is it worth the risk? I guess three years at 6 mil per, sure, but that isn’t likely to get it done.

    Z – Spencer Hawes, no way. DeAndre Jordan, tell me more – haven’t really seen him play. Stats per 36 seem promising.

  122. rama

    But while I’m not worried about the 5, I’m REALLY worried about PG. Felton can’t play that many minutes all year, and what TD do just ain’t about distributing.

  123. BG

    I think Tyson Chandler would be almost a perfect fit with our team but likely wont happen. Dalembert or D’andre Jordan would also fit well as both are mobile enough for dantoni system and fit well as rim protectors/finishers. A big man rotation of Jordan/Dalembert, Amare and, Turiaf off the bench would great. I love Chandler at the four but if we wanna make serious noise in playoffs we need another big.
    Also I am not high on douglas as a backup PG. He is a ball hawk on D but too one dimensional on offense. Maybe we could look at a point guard out of the draft this yr. What do you guys think ?

  124. d-mar

    tastycakes: It could definitely be a rough month ahead, no question, but we’ll see what this team is really made of.It’s just funny, as a Knicks fan through the dark decade, I watch games like last night, where they seem fully in control, and still expect things to suddenly unravel.This has definitely happened this season, against Portland early and then more scarily against Minnesota on the road.After the MIN game, one might have thought “same old Knicks,” but it doesn’t feel like that right now.8 wins in 9 games?I don’t care who the competition is, that’s impressive.I am really enjoying the core 5 guys play together — Amar’e, Felton, Fields, Gallo, Chandler.Azubuike coming back should be a really good thing.Would be nice to see AR contribute at some point this season, but he’s looking pretty dog-housed at the moment.So let’s hope it keeps up, and we continue to beat the cream puffs in the immediate future.Can’t wait for Knicks-Heat on 12/17!  

    For the past few weeks, I think we’ve all been watching these games and waiting for the inevitable meltdown in the 4th, but the difference is Amare and Ray. They step up big time down the stretch and have no fear of taking the big shot. Plus Amare has made some huge defensive plays late in games. And gotta give props to ill Will also for being clutch late in games.

    I was also thinking last night that in the “old days” ,when a basic unknown like Shawne Williams put up 13 pts., it used to be for the other team, and Knick fans would lament “who the hell is Shawne effin’ Williams and how do we let him burn us like that?” I’m sure the Hornets blogs (f there are any) are saying that right now.

  125. ess-dog

    If Douglas can improve his playmaking (and regain his shooting touch) then I think he could eventually be a respectable back up point.
    Felton’s only averaging 5 minutes more per game this year as opposed to last year. And Douglas is starting to look a little better running the show – he had 4 or 5 assists last night I think.
    I mean does it make more sense to continue to teach Douglas, or bring in some schlub like Alston?
    I wouldn’t be opposed to grabbing a pg in the draft next year, but by all accounts, pg will be weak in next year’s draft class.
    Also, there’s no way I see Walsh or D’Antoni bringing in Dalembert or Oden to play in this offense…

  126. JK47

    I like the idea of Dalembert. He’s in a funk so far in Sacramento, but he seems to be the type of C we’re all pining for– quality defender, high-efficiency/low usage offensive player, legitimate size for an NBA center. He rebounds, blocks shots, stays healthy…

    He’d be cheaper than Chandler but would probably give us reasonably comparable production.

  127. Z

    rama: DeAndre Jordan, tell me more – haven’t really seen him play. Stats per 36 seem promising.  

    DeAndre Jordan is tough to figure out. He was projected as a lottery pick in the ’08 draft but fell to the 2nd round. His rebounding is very good (11 per 36 career), and he blocks 2 shots every 36 minutes. This year he is shooting a TS% of .610. And he’s only 22.

    But his usage rate is miniscule (11.9 so far this year), and he can’t seem to get many minutes, even though Kaman has been hurt. Also, in case there is any question about it, the Clippers aren’t very good (though they did just beat the Spurs– a game that saw Jordan log a season high 34 minutes, block 3 shots, grab 13 rebounds, and go 0-4 from the free-throw line).

    All things considered, he could actually be a really nice fit. He’s restricted, but Sterling likes his money more than his players, so it may not take a high-ball offer to pry him free. Would he be worth $5 million a year? Maybe. It depends on who we’d bring in with whatever cap space is left over.

  128. hoolahoop

    Despite all the accolades bestowed upon Felton, he is still not a top tier point guard. However, I believe he may have the potential to develop into one of the leagues best. His shortcomings are fixable.
    For starters, he throws to many lazy passes, especially late in games, that are easily picked off. This is a lack of focus issue. Also, too many times, he just looks to dump the ball off to Amare, without regard to where Amare is. In other words, he uses Amare as a crutch. Instead, he should be more aggressive and getting Amare, or someone else o the team, the ball in good position to shoot. This too, is lack of focus. Additionally, there are many possessions that he has a tendency to shoot first. Also, a focus issue.
    On the other side of the ledger, he has the most paramount skill for a point guard – to set up his teammates. Plus, he has a good shot.
    I know this is nitpicking, but this is what it takes to play championship ball.

  129. rama

    Hoolahoop – OK, fine. So: which of the 10 better points would you get for the team and how? Not that there’s anything wrong with pointing out his weaknesses, but what’s the point? (Pun intended)

    Until 2012, I don’t think complaining about his weaknesses makes much sense. He’s playing way better than most people expected, and continues to improve. More significantly, he’s not a weakness, on a team that still has weaknesses.

  130. Robert Silverman

    Signing the likes of Chandler or Dalembert (and please, let’s not talk about Oden. It’s really too bad but he just can’t stay healthy) esp. for the 10-12 million it’s going to take wouldn’t be wise. Mainly b/c MD’A’s basic preference seems to be playing Stat at the 5 and going uptempo. What you need is a young player who does many of the things Turiaf does (block shots, only shoot on dunks/layups, be a solid passer from the high post) and is a better rebounder/more athletic than Ronny.

    But lo! That cat is already on the roster. His name’s Anthony Randolph and if he’d only start producing at the level he did his first two years in the league, all this pining for overpriced centers would go the way of the dodo bird

  131. The Ghost of Ted Nelson

    Robert Silverman: Signing Chandler for the 10-12 million it’s going to take wouldn’t be wise…all this pining for overpriced centers should go the way of the doodoo bird   

    ???????????!

    TS% .747!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Total Rebound% 20.0!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WS/48 .255!!!!!!!!!! 2 blocks per 36!!!!!!!!!!! At $11 million, how is he overpaid????????? But yeah, Anthony Randolph totally brings that same production. His TS is only 300 points lower!!!!!

  132. hoolahoop

    rama: Hoolahoop – OK, fine.So: which of the 10 better points would you get for the team and how?Not that there’s anything wrong with pointing out his weaknesses, but what’s the point?(Pun intended)Until 2012, I don’t think complaining about his weaknesses makes much sense.He’s playing way better than most people expected, and continues to improve.More significantly, he’s not a weakness, on a team that still has weaknesses.  

    What’s the point of discussing anything here? I’m pointing what I see as one of the obstacles of getting to the top. A team with no holes. Numero uno. Championship. That’s the ultimate objective. I’m not a fan that accepts mediocrity as okay. That’s okay in Milwaukee. I love the knicks and I love that they’re playing better. But that’s not enough – for me. I’m a competitor and the knicks are my team. How do we get the golden ring. One step is for Felton to hone his skills a little more. This is a collective conscious. From our voice to the the world to Felton himself. That’s what makes MSG the best venue and NY’rs the best basketball fans in the world.

  133. JK47

    Robert Silverman: Signing the likes of Chandler or Dalembert (and please, let’s not talk about Oden. It’s really too bad but he just can’t stay healthy) esp. for the 10-12 millionit’s going to take wouldn’t be wise. Mainly b/c MD’A’s basic preference seems to be playing Stat at the 5 and going uptempo. What you need is a young player who does many of the things Turiaf does (block shots, only shoot on dunks/layups, be a solid passer from the high post) and is a better rebounder/more athletic than Ronny.But lo! That cat is already on the roster. His name’s Anthony Randolph and if he’d only start producing at the level he did his first two years in the league, all this pining for overpriced centers would go the way of the dodo bird  

    Dalembert isn’t going to get 10-12 million– he’ll be available for WAY less than that I think. I’d love for Anthony Randolph to emerge as a player for us, but I really question whether the guy will ever be able to guard big, strong centers. Amar’e is best cast as a PF, and thoughts of him as the full-time C give me nightmare flashbacks of Kevin Love putting up a 30-30 game on us. I think we’re going to eventually need a true center on the squad if we really want to be a true contender.

  134. Robert Silverman

    The Ghost of Ted Nelson:
    ???????????!TS% .747!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Total Rebound% 20.0!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WS/48 .255!!!!!!!!!! 2 blocks per 36!!!!!!!!!!! At $11 million, how is he overpaid????????? But yeah, Anthony Randolph totally brings that same production. His TS is only 300 points lower!!!!!  

    Tyson Chandler’s in a contract year for one, and if you think he’s going to maintain those #’s for a full season I’ve also got a bridge in Bklyn you might be interested in. Two, Randolph is also off to a career-worst start. It’s not like he hasn’t produced. And Randolph is going be be about 1/10th of the cost of Chandler. If you think spending all the Nix cap space on an inconsistent, injury-prone C with a history of not giving a crap (and that means no Melo) is a good idea, well (to paraphase Lloyd Bensten)…

    I know Ted Nelson. I’ve posted on threads with Ted Nelson.

    And you, sir, are no Ted Nelson.

  135. hoolahoop

    I don’t know enough about Oden’s condition, but man, he would fit perfectly in D’Ant’s system. He’s a seven foot fly swatter in the middle of the lane, eats everything off the glass, and can run the floor like a sprinter. . . . and doesn’t care about scoring a lot. I think it’s a perfect fit.. I doubt he’ll be expensive because of the risk factor. If the knicks continue to play good ball for the remainder of the season they may be the perfect team to take a chance on him. . . and keep cap space for anyone else. Could you imagine this lineup. Oden, Amare, WC, Felton and Fields. WC and Gallo off the bench. Miami who?

  136. Robert Silverman

    JK47:
    Dalembert isn’t going to get 10-12 million– he’ll be available for WAY less than that I think. I’d love for Anthony Randolph to emerge as a player for us, but I really question whether the guy will ever be able to guard big, strong centers. Amar’e is best cast as a PF, and thoughts of him as the full-time C give me nightmare flashbacks of Kevin Love putting up a 30-30 game on us. I think we’re going to eventually need a true center on the squad if we really want to be a true contender.  

    My point was that AR doesn’t have to be a full-time C. You’ve got Turiaf doing his thing for 20 mpg. All AR needs to do is perform well against backups (and a few mins v. the starter) for 20 mpg while Stat plays when they go small for 8 mpg. That’s what Randolph has done in the past. Even if he doesn’t improve and just returns to career norms, the problem is solved.

    After all, it’s the PF’s of the league that have killed the Knicks this year, not the C’s (Love, Gibson, Gooden, Blatche, Griffin, Lee, Garnett, Brand, Scola, Ty Thomas).

    It’s just not a Center league anymore and committing 1/5th of the cap to rectify a problem that has cheaper alternatives is the way to kill a contender (like Dallas did when it lavished 70 million on Erick Dampier over keeping Nash)

  137. ess-dog

    JK47:
    Dalembert isn’t going to get 10-12 million– he’ll be available for WAY less than that I think. I’d love for Anthony Randolph to emerge as a player for us, but I really question whether the guy will ever be able to guard big, strong centers. Amar’e is best cast as a PF, and thoughts of him as the full-time C give me nightmare flashbacks of Kevin Love putting up a 30-30 game on us. I think we’re going to eventually need a true center on the squad if we really want to be a true contender.  

    I don’t know. Jermaine O’Neal got 2 years for 12 mil and he’s 3 years older than Dalembert. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Sam get 32-36 mil over 4 years… depending on the new bargaining agreement. Hell, Drew Gooden got 5 years starting at 6 mil.

  138. ASyrett19

    Maybe this ship has sailed, but would it be worth checking out Fazekas? His offense would seem to fit well. Can he defend? Maybe after they are able to waive Curry.

  139. BG

    Randolph has potential but I do not think that a combination of Turiaf, Randolph, and Moz is a rotation that could allow us to compete in the playoffs. If the knicks are going to become serious contenders they must upgrade at the 5. Turiaf is great role player but would be better suited off the bench. The best move would be for the knicks to use there cap on another big to help Amare rebound and defend and develop the young core.

  140. BigBlueAL

    I think its a little too much to be talking about what the Knicks need to do to become a championship contender. Lets just enjoy the way the team is playing right now and understand the fact that they are one of the youngest teams in the league and are being re-built the correct way.

    The Knicks are hopefully following the path of most re-building teams which is sneak into the playoffs this year which would show tremendous improvement obviously then with the cap space and ability to make more moves this and possibly next off-season make the moves needed to take the team to the next level which is becoming a championship caliber team.

    Right now its about again enjoying this min-renaissance and evaluating the younger players on the team and figuring out which are the long-term keepers besides Amar’e. What I do fear is trading for Melo this season. I just want to play the season out and head into the off-season with as much cap room as possible. Of course if DW could make trades this season to upgrade the current team but not add future payroll and help their chances of making the playoffs (getting a legitimate backup PG and C/PF) that would be great too.

  141. Ben R

    A couple of points about our cap situation. We can only sign a max player next year if we don’t resign Chandler or Azubuike. Also Turiaf will probably opt out and need to be resigned. Throwing lots of money at Melo or a five would mean letting Chandler and Azubuike and maybe even Turiaf go.

    I think we need to develop our youth before looking for mediocre solutions in free agency. I would sign Tyson Chandler for 10 mil a year or Jordan for 5 but other than that I would rather role the dice on the players we have.

    I think Moz will develop, he was a beast in preseason and most of his offensive problems seem to be a combination of nerves and a lack of aggressiveness around the basket, both fixable. Also Randolph, while right now struggling mightily, will come around and should be a solid rotation player if not later this year then next year.

    I also agree with ess-dog that Douglas will continue to develop and down the road should be able to easily hold the point down for 15 minutes a game. He is already a good scorer, recent shooting woes notwithstanding, and a very good defender, though he gambles a little too much. I think a fulltime backup would possibly not even be an upgrade because of the step down in defense and scoring.

    All in all we have Douglas, Randolph and Mozgov all struggling right now but all three should get better plus we have Azubuike coming back and Williams emerging from nowhere to I think give this team overall very nice depth moving forward. Inconsistancy and bouts of bad play is the price of devloping young talent, we need to grit our teeth and know they will all get better.

    We need to start budgeting resigning Wilson which takes us out of any max contract discussions.

  142. GAx

    Seriously. Let’s not trade for Melo. If he wants we can sign him next summer, but a trade would be be giving Denver 10 Euros for $10. We’d end up losing out in terms of the total team we have afterwards.

    And all this talk about potential free-agent C’s next year is a little misguided. The list of 2011 FA’s is kind of craptastic after this previous summer seeing half the league be an expiring contract. You can see the list here: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=FreeAgents-10-11

    After a quick scan, the only possible C candidate I can kind of get excited for is Marc Gasol and maybe Tyson Chandler. Both will be re-signed with their respective teams(Gasol’s a nice up-and-coming center and Chandler might be the best center in Dallas’ history. Seriously.). Other than a Carmelo signing this summer that I’m not banking on, I’d rather we develop our in-house assets and continue to grow this team moving into next year.

    But then again, we’re talking about next season and it’s just now December. Maybe this is a little pre-mature? Looking Forward to Next Year was a character trait of Knick fans in the past few years. I guess old habits die hard. :)

  143. hoolahoop

    I think Melo could have a negative impact on this team.The ball would stop moving when he got it, he’s not a very good defender, and the team chemistry may be disrupted. I agree that the knicks should develop the team this season, keep cap space, and see what opportunities present themselves over the next several months. The better they play, the less urgent it is to make a move.

  144. danvt

    GAx: But then again, we’re talking about next season and it’s just now December.

    Yes, they still need to finish this season at .500 or better and make the playoffs. Then they will truly be that one free agent away. LeBron did not come because he knew we were more than one or two players away. Thank god Amar’e did, because now we may be. I think a max player is a definite possibility. Let’s say we sign Melo. Well, then, we’d need to find a destination for Will anyway, or one of our other young guys. It’s cool that we can keep everyone long term and still sign someone new, though not to max money in that event. We probably won’t do that. Some people leave, others come in, and the product gets better. At least it did this year. If a deal were to happen right now it would have to be along the parameters of one young player plus Curry’s corpse. This is what we’d lose in the off season anyway. We’re playing well and we don’t have to give up the farm.

  145. Resounding Rebounding

    First time poster here. Like many others on this site, I`m very interested in statistical analyisis. With that said, I agree with alot of the you that the biggest need of this team right now is a center. So I`ve been looking around to see what centers are available right now and are playing well, statistically speaking. There is a 6’11 center from LSU available. Through six games he’s putting up the following numbers:
    GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
    6 32.3 0.540 0.000 0.765 2.2 5.8 8.0 1.5 0.7 3.2 3.50 3.67 20.0

    His TS% is .588. Now there are two caveats. The first is that it’s only been six games, so we have to see if these numbers hold up over a longer period of time. The second is that this player is a D-League player. The guy I`m talking about is Chris Johnson. He is in many ways an Anthony Randolph clone. In fact, he’s the guy that basically replaced Anthony Randolph at LSU after he was drafted. The numbers that he put up at LSU are solid but not spectacular.
    Here are the numbers for his last two years at LSU:
    MIN PTS REB AST TO A/T STL BLK PF FG% FT% 3P% PPS
    29.8 11.6 6.6 .8 2.4 .33 .6 2.6 2.4 .525 .852 .306 1.33
    25.2 7.7 7.2 1.2 1.6 .72 .5 2.7 2.2 .453 .747 .200 1.15
    He was a member of the 2009 SEC All Defensive Team. He went undrafted after his senior year and played last year in Poland and Turkey. I`v read a couple of scouting reports on him on NBA draft sites and they all describe him as very athletic, able to run the floor very well,

  146. Resounding Rebounding

    Sorry for the double post, first post didn’t come out right and I pressed submit by mistake.

  147. Nick C.

    I think the Felton issues, such as they are, are related to playing a bit too many minutes. Hopefully TD can step up. Mozgov just needs more time to get up to speed. He is only 20 games into his rookie year and with all due respect the league he played in was probably not even D1 college level. That being said love how they are playing and the issues of the day are kinda nitpicks.

  148. Darrell H.

    Mozgov played decently in the first few games. He was a presence on both ends. I think he heard the coaches (fans?) harping that he fouled too much and got timid. Just let the kid play and he’ll figure it out!

  149. The Ghost of Ted Nelson

    Robert Silverman: (to paraphase Lloyd Bensten [sic])…I know Ted Nelson. I’ve posted on threads with Ted Nelson.
    And you, sir, are no Ted Nelson.   

    And you, sir, will get as many people to agree with you that Anthony Randolph is better value than Tyson Chandler as the Bentsen/Dukakis ticket got electoral votes.

    “Tyson Chandler’s in a contract year for one, and if you think he’s going to maintain those #’s for a full season I’ve also got a bridge in Bklyn you might be interested in.”

    Chandler is putting up numbers that are consistent with his career. The only thing that is spiking is his TS%, which is due mainly to the fact that he’s gone from being a 60% free throw shooter to being an 80% free throw shooter over the past two years. But even if that reverts to form, he’s still worth every penny he’s going to make this year.

    “If you think spending all the Nix cap space on an inconsistent, injury-prone C with a history of not giving a crap is a good idea…”

    Anthony Randolph hasn’t exactly proved to be an iron man thus far in his career. Nor has he proven to “give a crap”. He was yanked from the rotation by two of the most lenient coaches in history. Tyson Chandler, on the other hand, has played deep into the playoffs, and opted in to Team USA.

    But sure, why upgrade at the one position that is producing nada, in the hopes that a guy who has demonstrated a Quayle-esque bball IQ will someday play, let alone play well, let alone play even remotely as well as T. Chandler.

    Oh, and for the record, Dukakis/Bentsen got 111 electoral votes. I challenge you to find 111 people who would agree with you that Anthony Randolph is better value than Tyson Chandler. 111. I’ll even let you include members of the Silverman family. Cousins, great aunts, anyone. And the Randolph family too. 111.

    (1 character left on the Nelson meter,…

  150. BG

    I think there is a chance that Randolph could produce this yr or more likely next year. But to say that he could defend 5’s in the east doesn’t make sense to me. I think if we could get Tyson Chandler we do it. He and turiaf together would be a great combo imo

  151. Brian Cronin

    Yeah, what’s interesting about Felton is that strictly in point guard skills, he’s been pretty mediocre this season. Very much middle of the pack. Everything hoolahoop says about his relatively weak passing is true.

    However, he has been such a great shooting guard (his true shooting percentage is outstanding, far and away his best shooting season) that I don’t know if it really matters much.

    So when you add in Toney’s woeful play at the point (dude’s assist ratio is 14.3%!!! 14.3!!!!), I really don’t see why Felton’s mediocre passing game would be the nit you would want to pick, since he has been so amazing as a scorer and so much better than the only other option at point as a passer.

  152. Robert Silverman

    Dear Fake T. Nelson,

    1. Take a look at Randolph’s production at age 19-20 v. Chandler’s and see if you still want to make the statement that Chandler’s going be the better player in the next 2-3 seasons even w/o salary being a factor. It’s not “will he ever play as well as Chandler” – Randolph is waaaaaayyy ahead of him at the same age whereas this is pretty much TC’s absolute peak value. My point is that spending 1/5th of the cap on an inconsistent player who’s already at his best (in a contract push year) is just a bad idea.

    2. Randolph wasn’t benched for his ‘tude. He got absolutely jerked around by Nellie, who’s been known to alienate a talented player or two (see Ewing, Mason, Webber, Cummings, Jason Richardson and on and on). TC got traded from Chi b/c Skiles hated his work ethic. NO dumped him for a more expensive Okafor for the same reason.

    3. Oh, so now the majority opinion (even the overwhelming majority) is ALWAYS right. I guess Landry Fields really was a wasted pick then, huh? So yes, Bush ! won in a landslide – but I think, having the pleasure of hindsight, that Duke would have been a better president and if Poppy B. had lost in ’88 we’d all have been spared 8 years of George W.

    Tyson C. and Andy R. Are the same way. You may not be able to see it now, but looking at the economics and the numbers, and I can practically guarantee that 5 years down the road, you’ll see that a mega-deal for Chandler would have been just be a colossally bad idea.

  153. hoolahoop

    Brian Cronin: Yeah, what’s interesting about Felton is that strictly in point guard skills, he’s been pretty mediocre this season. Very much middle of the pack. Everything hoolahoop says about his relatively weak passing is true.
    However, he has been such a great shooting guard (his true shooting percentage is outstanding, far and away his best shooting season) that I don’t know if it really matters much.
    So when you add in Toney’s woeful play at the point (dude’s assist ratio is 14.3%!!! 14.3!!!!), I really don’t see why Felton’s mediocre passing game would be the nit you would want to pick, since he has been so amazing as a scorer and so much better than the only other option at point as a passer.  

    Agreed, Felton has become a pleasant surprise. Certainly, his shooting has gone a long way to help his cause. In the long run, his ability to be a court general, and his passing/assist skills are going to determine the sustained success of this team.

  154. Brian Cronin

    I guess, but if the Knicks find a way to move the ball while letting Felton playing the scoring role he has done so well, I don’t know if the lack of a true court general matters too much. I mean, the Spurs won a gazillion titles without a court general (Parker is even lesser of a passing point than Felton). The Lakers won the last two seasons without a court general. The Rockets didn’t have a court general when they won their two titles. So while sure, it’d be nice to have, I don’t know if it is a major concern.

  155. Brian Cronin

    By the way, I said the other day that if the Knicks beat the Hornets, you’d see a major bump in their Hollinger rankings, and I just checked and sure enough, they’re now all the way up to #14! Just barely behind the Thunder at #13! Pretty cool.

  156. latke

    Z: DeAndre Jordan is tough to figure out.

    Jordan is an offensive zero. The reason his TS% is so high is because he only shoots the ball from right under the rim. He could maybe be a steven hunter type player — only playing when the knicks need someone to defend a big man, but in that case I’m not sure if he has much more potential than Mozgov. I suppose he’s a better rebounder. Regardless, he’s not worth more than 2-3 million.

    Robert Silverman: What you need is a young player who does many of the things Turiaf does (block shots, only shoot on dunks/layups, be a solid passer from the high post) and is a better rebounder/more athletic than Ronny.

    Agreed. The problem with randolph though is that he’s just too weak to guard centers. He’s listed right now at 205 lbs, whereas turiaf is 250. I think that he would be getting mozgov’s minutes in spite of his deficiencies if he put on 15-20 pounds. Hell, Chandler even has 15 lbs on Randolph.

  157. latke

    BigBlueAL: I just want to play the season out and head into the off-season with as much cap room as possible.

    I’m not an expert on the salary cap rules, but let’s say the knicks trade all there expirings before february to bring in some longer contracts and end up over/at the cap before FA season starts this summer. Wouldn’t that mean they could then go over the cap to sign wilson chandler (due to bird rights)? I’m not saying that’s the right way to go, but it certainly makes trading the contracts more palatable. And regardless we could still do a sign and trade with chandler which might net us a useful asset or two.

  158. Brian Cronin

    The Ghost of Ted Nelson:
    Agreed!!!  

    I know it is all in good fun, but using Ted’s name like that seems to be a bit much. As a one-off joke, sure, it’s totally fine, but now that the joke’s been had, could you please go back to your normal screen name? Pretty please?

  159. Brian Cronin

    I’m not an expert on the salary cap rules, but let’s say the knicks trade all there expirings before february to bring in some longer contracts and end up over/at the cap before FA season starts this summer. Wouldn’t that mean they could then go over the cap to sign wilson chandler (due to bird rights)?

    Yes, they could do that.

  160. danvt

    The Ghost of Ted Nelson: Oh, and for the record, Dukakis/Bentsen got 111 electoral votes. I challenge you to find 111 people who would agree with you that Anthony Randolph is better value than Tyson Chandler. 111. I’ll even let you include members of the Silverman family. Cousins, great aunts, anyone. And the Randolph family too. 111.

    Just like the picture of Dukakis in the tank that Papa George used to defeat him, we see the manly picture of the fearsome Chandler turning back defenders and think this is the man to defend our paint/ country. But just as our country rues the decision for the belicose Bush, the man who began our ruinous forays into nation building, the Knick fan now sees how we could have kept a boy named Camby at one time as well.

    (1 character left on the Nelson meter,…  

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