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Friday, October 31, 2014

2009 Report Card: Quentin Richardson

It’s amazing how Quentin Richardson’s 2009 season lines up with his career stats. Except for minor improvements in shooting and minor declines in rebounding, points scored, and free throw attempts, the two are identical.

Season G FGA TS% 3PA 3P% FTA FT% ORB TRB AST STL TOV PF PTS
2008-09 72 12.7 .510 6.3 .365 2.2 .761 1.3 6.1 2.2 0.9 1.4 2.5 13.9
Career 601 13.5 .499 5.7 .354 2.7 .712 1.7 6.4 2.1 1.0 1.6 2.6 14.7

Earlier in his career, Richardson was a more prolific scorer (16.8 pts/36 over his first 4 seasons) but it seems that injuries has robbed him of that ability (13.1 pts/36 since). These days Richardson’s main strength is his rebounding. He does try hard in other areas, including exerting effort on defense, but he’s just not very good at anything else. His three point shooting was at the league level (36.5%), but his overall offensive efficiency was way below it (TS%: 51.0%). The Knicks other swingmen, Chandler and Hughes, are both weak scorers around the hoop, yet they were still better at scoring from “close” (as defined by 82games). Of the three, Richardson had the lowest percentage made of “close” shots (eFG 51.1%) and the highest percentage of “close” shots blocked (17%). Quentin also sported the team’s lowest ratio of free throws made to field goals attempted (.13), a clear sign of poor inside scoring.

The problem wasn’t so much Richardson, but rather the Knicks’ reliance on him. Since coming to New York Q-Rich has started 85% of the games in which he appeared, including 51 of 72 last year. Wearing orange and blue, Richardson has averaged 28 minutes per game, far too much for someone approaching 29 with a moderate skill set.

For 2010 the goal should be to find a shooting guard that will allow Chandler to slide over to forward, or to get Gallo healthy enough for significant minutes at the three. Either of these should limit the time Richardson is on the floor. The Knicks were able to move Richardson this offseason for Darko Milicic to bolster the center position. This likely will open things up for Danilo Gallinari to assume more minutes at small forward.

Report Card (5 point scale):
Offense: 1
Defense: 3
Teamwork: 4
Rootability: 3
Performance/Expectations: 2

Grade: D+

Similarity Scores:

z-Sum FLName Year Tm PER TS% eFG% PTS ORB TRB AST STL BLK TOV
.000 Quentin Richardson 2009 NYK 11.6 .510 .483 13.9 1.3 6.1 2.2 0.9 0.1 1.4
.051 Wesley Person 2000 CLE 12.0 .528 .509 12.7 0.8 4.7 2.6 0.7 0.3 1.1
.058 Chris Mills 1998 NYK 12.7 .512 .462 12.8 2.0 6.7 2.2 0.7 0.5 1.8
.062 Raja Bell 2005 UTA 12.2 .527 .495 15.5 1.0 4.0 1.8 0.9 0.2 1.6
.064 Larry Krystkowiak 1993 UTA 11.7 .524 .466 13.6 2.0 7.4 1.8 1.1 0.3 1.6
.064 Walter Herrmann 2008 TOT 13.2 .494 .458 14.8 2.1 7.0 1.7 0.7 0.1 1.2
.075 Dennis Scott 1997 ORL 12.4 .519 .496 13.7 0.7 3.4 2.3 1.2 0.3 1.3
.079 Bob Hansen 1989 UTA 9.7 .512 .498 12.7 1.1 4.8 1.9 1.4 0.2 1.6
.079 Devin Brown 2007 NOK 14.3 .538 .493 14.5 1.2 5.4 3.2 1.0 0.2 2.0
.080 Keith Bogans 2009 TOT 9.7 .521 .481 10.3 0.9 5.7 1.8 1.2 0.1 1.2
.084 Maurice Evans 2007 LAL 12.1 .523 .476 13.3 1.9 4.6 1.5 0.8 0.3 1.2
.093 Tayshaun Prince 2009 DET 15.0 .516 .477 13.7 1.5 5.6 3.0 0.5 0.6 1.2

63 comments on “2009 Report Card: Quentin Richardson

  1. Caleb

    The one thing I wonder the past few years… with the Clippers, Q was a pretty good post-up player – but once he got to Phoenix, D’Antoni pretty much turned him into a jump-shooter. Maybe the back problems just took away the explosiveness that he needed. He’s a great rebounder for a guard, but doesn’t look like a guy who is long for the league…

  2. Dan Panorama

    I’m just amazed to remember he’s like 29 — he looks like he’s 34 on the court.

    It’s pretty sad that as D’antoni shows up, his body is no longer quite what it was. He had a great season back in Phoenix with him mostly just shooting open 3s thanks to the system.

  3. Frank

    Holy schniekes, you’re right. he is 29. I totally thought like you did, that he was born in 1972 or something.

    Unrelated topic — anyone see Hahn’s article today?
    http://www.newsday.com/sports/basketball/knicks/ny-spknix0710,0,1682391.story

    looks like perhaps someone has lit a fire under Curry. 50 lbs in one off-season is no joke regardless of how overweight he was to begin with. As much as I have come to agree with the Owens of the world re: his statistical suckiness, I still carry the endless hope of a hopeless Knicks fan that he can turn into a useful player. Getting his house foreclosed on hopefully at least motivates him to play well enough to get a new contract.

    Now if this Powell guy can teach him to pass out of a double team… and play defense… and rebound… and block shots… and shoot free throws..we could really have something!

  4. Ricky_J

    Curry Losing 50 lbs?

    oh dear god please let it be true, please let it be true, please let it be true, please let it be true…

  5. Ted Nelson

    Frank,

    I share your (slight/ low-level) optimism on Curry. He’s had a rough year: lost a child and the mother of his children, didn’t play all season, and now his financial problems. Maybe he has found some motivation.
    His limitations are clear, but if he can shoot a TS% of 60% within a fluid offense then I think he can make a positive contribution to the team.

    Jon Abbey,

    What was that about no one turning on LeBron? I’m not saying it should, but if Cleveland loses in the playoffs and he leaves for NY it’s going to fuel the “sore loser” rep. It could be overcome in a few years, just like Kobe’s infidelity and trade demands seem like distant memories… a ring or two seems to do that.

  6. Count Zero

    My optimism on Curry is limited to: Maybe someone will take his contract off our hands now!

    If he really has lost 50 pounds, it just might happen…

  7. TDM

    The one thing I liked about Q was that he was gritty and played with some heart – not something that can be said about many Knicks’ players in the past 10 years. That said, no tears were shed in seeing him go.

    Regarding Steady Eddy – 50 lbs? Well, depending on how much he ballooned last season, this could be a good sign. Even if he was 320 (my guess) at his heaviest, a 6’11, 270 lb guy is fairly fit. Based purely on size, that would be comparable to Diop, Kendrick Perkins or Kwame Brown. All 3 of these guys always look in pretty good shape. Whether or not they could get up and down in Mike D’s system is another story however. At minimum, this is very promising for Eddy.

    With Hill staying in PHX, Isola indicates that the Knicks may look to make an offer to Andre Miller. Duhon and Miller would be a good tandem at pg. Depending on the deal, I’d be happy with Andre.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/2009/07/10/2009-07-10_knicks_could_look_to_andre_miller_as_plan_b.html

    Berman pontificates that a Jeffries for Mike James deal may be in the works. Salaries match, but James expires a year earlier. If its possible, that would be even better than Andre Miller, since I don’t see Andre taking a 1 year deal.

    http://www.nypost.com/seven/07102009/sports/knicks/guard_sees_hill__but_not_lebron__in_ny_178492.htm

  8. Ray

    I like the sound of that deal too. We get a solid backup playing in his hometown. I believe James is from Amytiville. Maybe he’ll have something to prove. He can shoot it and run the floor. Hes kind of an off an on guy. We dump salary in JJ leaving and free up miniutes for some of the young guys!! Do it Donnie!

  9. Ted Nelson

    “My optimism on Curry is limited to: Maybe someone will take his contract off our hands now!”

    That’s the hope, but I think it will take some actual on-court productivity. The fact that he actually did what he was supposed to–worked out in the offseason–probably doesn’t make him much more attractive a trade target given all his limitations and his huge salary.

    “a Jeffries for Mike James deal”

    I don’t even want to say anything to jinx it. I’m pretty confident that Mike James has got zero NBA basketball left in him, but that deal could go down as one of the greatest in Knicks’ history… (no offense to Jared Jeffries, but that cap space would be sooooooooo huge)

  10. Ted Nelson

    “The fact that he actually did what he was supposed to–worked out in the offseason–probably doesn’t make him much more attractive a trade target given all his limitations and his huge salary.”

    I should say that relatively to where he stood a few months ago it does, but still probably doesn’t make him very attractive overall.

  11. Count Zero

    Agreed — I was just saying that my optimism doesn’t extend to: “Hey, he might actually be someone useful to keep.”

    I’ve heard a lot of talk around the concept that a skinny (relatively) Eddy with his low post offense would be great in Coach D’s system — I’m not buying that line of thinking for a NY minute. As Frank pointed out so eloquently, even at his physically fit best, he still displays numerous shortcomings.

  12. Dan Panorama

    Shaq was surprisingly decent as the trailer in a D’antoni and D’antoni-style system. Curry, if healthy, is extremely effective if he gets position before the defense can set up — he has a ton of flaws (pretty much every other aspect of his game), but I can at least see how such an offense could utilize his one big strength. Also you figure he might benefit from having Duhon around this season to get him the rock. Knicks were terrible at feeding him (the ball, at least) in previous seasons.

  13. cgreene

    Hill and Kidd not opting to come to NY hurts the perception that players will just want to come here because it is NY and they like to play for D’Antoni. Bottom line is that with the cap and the fact that this year’s team will still not be competitive I have a hard time envisioning LeBron or any major star coming to the Knicks. Time to go hard at Plan B which is get as much young talent as possible and build completely from the ground up. You can do this and still not hurt the cap just in case for years beyond 2010. Start with getting David Lee done.

  14. jon abbey

    “Hill and Kidd not opting to come to NY hurts the perception that players will just want to come here because it is NY and they like to play for D’Antoni.”

    there’s a huge difference between aging role players and superstars. superstars will immediately make any team competitive, aging role players need to factor in other considerations. we need a superstar, just as we have since Ewing left. if we get that, the aging role players will flock to us (if we still want them).

  15. Thomas B.

    Okay so Curry lost close to 50 pounds. How heavy was he when he started the program? That is what I would like to know. 50 pounds is great if you are only 50 pounds overweight..but if you are 80 pounds over well there is still work to do. I guess you could infer that his knee has been strong enough to let him workout. You might also infer that his conditioning has improved. I doubt we will see him doing any standing backflips-his words btw.
    http://www.espn.go.com/community/s/2001/0410/1170937.html


    John from [64.12.102.26], at 3:22pm ET
    Is it true you can do standing backflips??

    Eddy Curry at 3:21pm ET
    It’s true. Before basketball, my hobby was gymnastics.
    —-
    I’m taking the high road on the current hobbies.

    Even if Eddy comes in with the ideal BMI, he is still a poor rebounder, shot blocker, defender, FT shooter, and passer. He is still foul prone-on both sides of the court. But if he can do his one trick: inside scoring between offensive fouls calls and turnovers, we might just get some team in need of a body to put on Shaq to take him off our hands.

  16. Thomas B.

    “Curry, if healthy, is extremely effective if he gets position before the defense can set up”-dan panorama

    Yes, but he can only do that by not running back on defense, which funny enough results in only slightly worse defense than when he does run back.

    Wow Richardson is five years younger than I am?! I thought for sure he was like a senior when I was a freshmen. Yikes. But you know back issues really ages a player quickly it seems. Do remember how bad Bird and Mullin looked near the end, granted they were not 29 but that really makes me worry about DG.

  17. ess-dog

    I can’t believe we were rejected by old man Hill for a picked apart Phoenix team. Not that I badly wanted him or anything, I’m just not sure what Walsh is doing right now. Maybe I’m just being impatient, but can’t we just dump jeffries for an expiring contract like Mike James, let Nate walk and use the remaining money to go after Sessions? There’s really nothing better out there that anyone will part with. Those rookie contracts are gold now because they are so cheap. No one is going to trade 2nd or 3rd year players (although it sounds like Tyrus Thomas might be a goner.)

  18. jon abbey

    “Maybe I’m just being impatient, but can’t we just dump jeffries for an expiring contract like Mike James, let Nate walk and use the remaining money to go after Sessions?”

    there is no ‘remaining money’, we’re over the cap anyway and could only offer Sessions the midcap, which Milwaukee would immediately match. don’t worry, I’m sure we can draft a stud PG…

    ARGH

  19. ess-dog

    Maybe Sessions wants out now that Jennings is in town? I know you’re not supposed to draft for need, buy why oh why didn’t we take a home run swing at Jennings? My confidence level in Walsh is a 3/10 right now… 10 being the highest.

  20. Count Zero

    I actually saw him do the standing backflip thing when he was a senior in HS — I was like, “HOLY S**T! That’s amazing for a dude his size.” Hell, that’s amazing even for a guy my size. ;-)

    Which is why I found it hard to believe just how un-athletic he was by the time we got him. You would think someone who could do a standing backflip would be able to actually get his feet more than six inches off the floor when rebounding / challenging a shot…

    To quote Bono: Dee-zai-ai-ai-ai-er…

  21. Ted Nelson

    Curry’s not the ideal player to be paying 10, 11 mill per, but if the Knicks can’t move him then I agree he can be useful.

    I wouldn’t take the Kidd/Hill thing too seriously. You could look at it optimistically and say that it does verify the Walshtoni/NYC effect because those 2 vets who were once great players were even entertaining signing with the Knicks. If the Knicks could pay them players were always interested in coming, but those two considered NY for peanuts so that’s something. In reality, they were probably just exploring their options, both had personal reasons to come to NYC (kids for Kidd and wife’s singing for Hill), and maybe gained some leverage. Hill signed in Phoenix in part to play for D’Antoni, and Kidd would probably be happier in some ways and maybe more productive running D’Antoni’s full throttle offense than Dallas’ medium paced offense.

    “I have a hard time envisioning LeBron or any major star coming to the Knicks. Time to go hard at Plan B which is get as much young talent as possible and build completely from the ground up.”

    I don’t think that Plan A and Plan B are mutually exclusive. In fact, I think being on the road to Plan B would make Plan A a lot more likely to actually happen. The Knicks would be a more attractive destination and have more sign-and-trade pieces. If no true max FAs (LeBron, Wade, and Bosh) come they hedge their risk with a good young team, or they can just be like every other NBA team and wildly overpay to get whatever FA is available…

  22. TDM

    I was relieved that we did not take Jennings. The kid is not just young – he’s a head case. Although I was hesistant about drafting Hill, I’m warming up to the idea. Not to mention, if we could obtain a vet pg like Andre Miller without completely blowing our cap for 2010, the Knicks would be very competitive.

    When AI was being run out of town in Philly, they had missed the playoffs 2 years in a row. Miller brought them back to the playoffs the next 2 years in a row. He was a winner in Denver as well. He skipped his final team meeting in Philly – a sign that he knows his time there is over. Although he’s 33, he’s still playing at a high level. This post-season, the guy was a stud – 21 pts, 6 ravg, 5 aavg, 1 savg.

  23. TDM

    “To quote Bono: Dee-zai-ai-ai-ai-er…”

    Was that Bono, or Gene Loves Jezebel? Damn, I just showed my age . . .

  24. cgreene

    Ted – you left off the end of my quote where I said Plan B does not stop us from staying under the cap. My point was that we will not build enough assets fast enough to lure the big player in 2010. It will take longer.

  25. Ted Nelson

    “I know you’re not supposed to draft for need, buy why oh why didn’t we take a home run swing at Jennings?”

    Swinging wildly for the fences results in a lot more strikeouts than HRs… although I guess all you need is the occasional HR. Walsh has usually been pretty conservative with his draft picks, and his approach has served him well over the years. One of the biggest risks he’s taken was Jonathan Bender, and we know that didn’t turn out too well even before the injury. He passed Andre Miller, Shawn Marion, and others to swing for the fences on Bender.
    The benefits might not justify the risk with Jennings. His physical ceiling is very high, but after working him out Walshtoni might have decided that his ceiling running a team is about Marbury level.
    I don’t think Jennings fits much of a need, unless the Knicks need a scrawny PG who might be 3 or 4 years away from making a major contribution. He outright stunk in Europe last season, cultural shock aside that’s not a good sign. I think he would be the first PG to stink in Europe and come light the NBA on fire. His public comments leading up to and after the draft have also been very concerning.
    Walsh also seems to value size highly, having said before the draft that the only player worth giving up assets to move up for (aside from Griffin) was Thabeet, and that he wanted another guy who hit his head on the door frame like Rik Smits. It makes some sense to take a shot on size–even if you’re swinging for the fences. Knicks fans have long been desperate for a PG, but decent PGs grow on trees compared to decent guys 6-10 and above. At the MLE the Knicks brought in a solid PG in Duhon, and might bring in an aging star in Miller.
    I actually think that if they resign Nate and certainly if they sign Andre Miller PG might be one of the Knicks strongest positions, especially if Douglas can play there, but I know I’m in the minority there.

    “My confidence level in Walsh is a 3/10 right now… 10 being the highest.”

    Based on what?

  26. BigBlueAL

    Hey guys anyone know if the Knicks Summer League games will be shown on NBATV?? I know MSG is showing all the games and in the past NBATV simulcasted all those games on NBATV but so far this season looking at the NBATV schedule I dont see them showing any Vegas Summer League games, only showing them on their website for like 15 bucks. Again anyone know if NBATV will be showing any Vegas Summer League games this year??

  27. Z-man

    If the best case scenario for 2009-10 Knicks (Eddy lean and mean, Gallo healthy and maturing, Lee and Nate re-signed, Nate developing PG skills, Hill and Douglas productive, Darko turning the corner in a contract year, Chandler playing more explosively and consistently, etc.) plays out, might be a fun ride this year! As presently constructed, this might be the most balanced and deep team we’ve had in a long time, at least until the other shoe inevitably drops.

  28. BigBlueAL

    “As presently constructed, this might be the most balanced and deep team we’ve had in a long time”

    Thats not really saying much!!!! LOL

  29. Frank

    Does anyone here think that maybe the best point guard available on the market right now might be on our own roster? (I’m not talking about Duhon). Our choices right now are people like Andre Miller, who I do like but is old, and who else?

    I think we can probably sign Nate to a, say, 4 year 16 million dollar contract, which I think is pretty reasonable. He clearly took his game to a somewhat higher level last year, and I think has improved each season. Of course, he still plays out of control at times, goes one-on-one way to often, goes under screens too much, etc…. but at the end of the day, he had the 2nd best +/- (for what that’s worth) of all the players who actually played real minutes at + 6.3 (interestingly, Gallinari was far and away the best at +9.4, and Lee and Duhon were -2.7 and -3.9 respectively), had a reasonably good assist/TO ratio (4.9/2.3 per 36), an above average TS% of 55%, and a PER of ~19. The Knicks were equally as terrible on defense with him and without him, and were better on offense.

    And most of all, I think he is showing increasing maturity each year. I didn’t see much completely inappropriate boasting (like a few years ago when he was celebrating scoring 30 something points while giving up 50 to Iverson).

    I just feel that D’Antoni has this great reputation for being able to coach up PGs — Nate, at times last year, was the best player on the team, able to distribute and score at will against some very good defenses. Can D’Antoni coach him up to a 7 assists/30 without increase TOs? I think he should be able to.

  30. Ted Nelson

    cgreene,

    Sorry, didn’t intentionally misquote you, just took a blurb. I believe our thoughts mostly overlap. We both seem to agree that they just need to keep making the best decisions they can and see how things pan out. I agree to an extent that its unlikely to see someone leave a contender or even just a playoff team for a “rebuilding” 25-35 win team, but there are other factors to consider: NYC, Walshtoni, and the possibility of getting 2 top flight players through one or two sign-and-trades. And as Jon Abbey points out “superstars will immediately make any team competitive”… and LeBron and Wade are definitely superstars.
    I don’t think there’s a great chance of getting LeBron or Wade, but even a 1% chance with those guys is something. Like our chances better with Bosh… Hedo hurts, but Bargnani at 10 mill per probably helps the Knicks. Really like our chances with Amare. Manu and Joe Johnson are available. Rajon Rondo’s restricted, as is Ronnie Brewer. There are plenty of lower price options as well. If the young core looks good they could pick up a few solid vets that fill needs on short-term deals, which is in-line with your point about building slowly.

    Frank,

    Agreed. Nate is one of the best Knicks and one of the best FAs left on the market.
    I think Nate is probably trying to establish his market value. As the most attractive MLE candidates sign, he might get the full MLE somewhere or at least close. He’s up against the same wall as Lee, though, where teams know the Knicks might match a reasonable deal for one of their best and most marketable players. So, they have to be willing to wait a week to see if the Knicks match. Unlike Lee, Nate might be best off just taking his qualifying option, which at 2.9 mill might be a lot closer to what he can get as a RFA. At 4 yrs 16 mill I’d be thrilled as a Knicks fan (great value), but I don’t think Nate would (probably less than he expects).

  31. Brian Cronin

    Wade, by the way, is sounding more and more like a guy who is ready to move on.

    I thought his “if they’re competitive, I will stick around” comment was brilliant in its vagueness, but Pat Riley seemed to really call him on it a lot harder than I figured he would (“I can’t add the pieces you want if you won’t commit to the team”).

  32. cav0011

    I signed up for the las vegas summer league streams. The announcers are like the polar opposite of the orlando ones. I cant stand these guys.

  33. cgreene

    Ted, yes. We agree. And to detail that out and to add to what Frank was saying about Nate I have changed my mind on a few things as the summer has played out. Nate can play quality minutes at the NBA level and put up points and at times make the team dramatically better. I was ready to let Nate walk because I have D and coachability but I have revamped my thinking on him based on Frank’s argument and the market. Lee at times on this blog was discussed as a borderline all star but in reality is a 3rd to 4th best on a contender. Both of those guys are basically FAs who are available exclusively to the Knicks more than any other team and can be nice parts. DW has let the market play out long enough. The demand for them is not strong. Therefore, now they can be wooed by DW to take a nice long term deal at good money for them ($8M per for Lee, $4-5M per for Nate) and we then have assets in quality contracts that can be used as building blocks or as trades down the line to get bigger stars. You can structure the deals creatively with opt outs so if they dramatically improve they can test the market again in three years still very much in their prime. This is the way to stock pile assets by having them in quality contracts.

    The much bigger risk actually, in my opinion the “home run swing” as it was being described above, is to not woo these guys, have their egos bruised (and we all know how easily this happens to athletes no matter how much we think of a guy like Lee not thinking that way), have them play out their QO contracts, have them walk as UFAs next year while we are out there trying to make a play for DWade, LBJ, Bosh etc and basically lose them for nothing. The worst case scenario there is you DON’T get a top flight superstar, you lose Lee and Nate for nothing after grooming them for four years, you have no 1st round pick and you are left with a new young core of Gallo, Chandler, Hill and Tony Douglass none of whom have proven that they have as much game and durability as Lee and Nate.

    That scenario scares the crap out of me and says that the conservative play is to lock up your assets into good deals while it looks like the market is in your favor. You are still under the cap for 2010 (maybe not as much as you hoped but your cap is heading in the right direction). You might be able to trade Curry and/or Jeffries to get further under and be able to make a stronger superstar pitch with better assets.

    If I am DW that is my high level strategy today.

  34. ess-dog

    Potential Duhon for Miller trade? Yuck. No thanks. I’d rather stick with Duhon and give Toney some tick at point.
    Curry’s scenario could be a bit different if he really is in shape. The Rockets might pull the trigger. Does that mean we would take back T-Mac? Curry and Hughes for T-Mac? Sounds great. Maybe Almond could then man up enough to get some minutes behind T-Mac/Hughes. If we could swing that Curry trade, then we could get a better deal for Lee and not have to worry about 2010.
    Oh please God, if you can hear me…

  35. Z-man

    cgreene and Ted,

    Agree with your reasoning. I am interested to see whether Toney D shows any indication that he can play the point. If he can, we can probably get away with not signing a PG.

    While it is true that you don’t want to bruise egos, I hope that Nate is getting humbled a bit by the percieved lack of interest in him (which surprises me as well!) Could it be used as leverage to convince him that he would be far more marketable as a small PG than a woefully undersized SG? If he could ever bump his assist per 36 rate up to 7 or so, he would be much more attractive on the FA market. If he could get himself into that mindset, the QO deal might work really well for him.

  36. funkyd

    What’s with the Andre Miller dislike? He’s got at least 3 years left in him and has always been an above-average starting PG on winning teams. He could easily average 8-9 assists per game for D’antoni. There is no reason to suspect that Toney Douglas (as promising as he may be) has the requisite PG skills, given his college numbers and age. What would happen if Duhon got injured this year? Nate for 48 minutes?

  37. Z-man

    Following up on my last comment, I took another look at KB’s Nate Report Card thread, specifically the similarity scores. Mike K noticed that the similar players were almost exclusively taller shooting guard/small forward types, but seemed to imply that his “playing taller” was a good thing. I think it is the worst thing about Nate from a marketing perspective because the bottom line is that he is 5’7″ and will always be seen as a role player at the 2. The perception that PG’s need to be tall is less of an obstacle, and I think he has the talent to be at least perceived as a potential starter on a good team at the point.

    Mike, I wonder if he adds 2-3 assists per game, whether his similarity scores would involve some shorter players and PGs. None of the players in the current match had more than 5.4 assists (N8’s buddy Brandon Roy) and almost all were under 5.

  38. TDM

    Here’s the story on the potential Miller / Duhon swap. Sounds more like his agent sees his client potentially going into a backup role if the Knicks obtain Miller so he wants to find some other team willing to let him start for them. They would have to sign and trade Duhon to make it work, for multiple years and for more money, all to the benefit of his agent (and Duhon). Personally, I want them both. Duhon needed someone to spell him, and Miller at 33, will likewise need a good backup. I’d start Miller.

    http://www.phillyburbs.com/news/news_details/article/126/2009/july/11/sixers-knicks-could-swap-point-guards.html

  39. TDM

    My bad. On closer inspection, Miller would be the guy that needed to be signed and traded, not Duhon.

  40. cgreene

    Allow to me amend something from my previous post about signing Lee immediately. In the NYTimes today DW clearly says that he wants to send Lee an offer but is not bothering because they are so far apart on $. This verifies the rumor the Bartelstein is pricing Lee at about $12M per season. That is a ridiculous number for Lee. Basically he is completely pricing Lee out of the market so I do not at all blame DW here for not being aggressive enough.

    From the Times:
    Lee’s agent, Mark Bartelstein, has expressed frustration at the lack of progress on contract talks. He is seeking a deal that averages $12 million a year, which is at least $4 million more than the Knicks are comfortable spending on Lee. But no team appears willing to meet that price, and Lee is a restricted free agent, which gives the Knicks leverage.

    “We don’t really stand anywhere,” Walsh said of the talks, “because in the case of David, he wants a large number and I really couldn’t do that.”

    Walsh said he had not made a formal offer to Lee, “because it wouldn’t do any good.”

    “I’ll start over again,” he added, “and see if we can get to a reasonable number.”

  41. ess-dog

    Interesting notes from Hahn in Vegas summer league on 3 key players:

    “The most impressive player was Toney Douglas. He has NBA speed and agility and terrific hands. Gets into the paint and can dish as well as he can finish.

    Jordan Hill took a pounding from Sene, who is known to foul a lil bit. Hill looked like he had trouble getting his legs under him, but one noticable trait was how he got after the ball. The post moves are raw and hesitant. He’s got some work to do.

    Danilo Gallinari was in the gym and worked out on his own. He has been running for almost two weeks and said he feels good and plans to be 100 percent by training camp. He spoke very optimistically and with confidence, which we didn’t get last season.”

  42. Z-man

    Alan Hahn observations from Vegas:

    “The most impressive player was Toney Douglas. He has NBA speed and agility and terrific hands. Gets into the paint and can dish as well as he can finish.

    Jordan Hill took a pounding from Sene, who is known to foul a lil bit. Hill looked like he had trouble getting his legs under him, but one noticable trait was how he got after the ball. The post moves are raw and hesitant. He’s got some work to do.

    Danilo Gallinari was in the gym and worked out on his own. He has been running for almost two weeks and said he feels good and plans to be 100 percent by training camp. He spoke very optimistically and with confidence, which we didn’t get last season.”

  43. Z-man

    Ha! Obviously we have the sorriest lives on this blog.

    Love the positive comments about TD. Could he be that elusive all-star find out of the bottom of the first round?

  44. Brian Cronin

    The proposed James deal definitely is one of those situations where you think, “How can that deal be for real? And if it is for real, how can it not be done yet??!?”

    I had such a thing for Mike James for years – he used to be a really good underrated player, but then he basically died about four years ago but his corpse just refuses to stop playing basketball.

    Still, a corpse like James for one year is better than Jeffries for two.

  45. Brian Cronin

    By the way, I like Jarrett Jack, but for five million a year for four years? I know Toronto felt they needed to go high to keep Indy from matching, but with their depleted roster, five million to Jack seems excessive.

  46. ess-dog

    Right, where does that leave a player like Nate then? Or Sessions for instance? For all the talk of the economy, all the signings so far seem on par with last year. 10-12 mil to Lee doesn’t seem out of the question, maybe with a cap at 4 years… I can see why they are miffed. Maybe at this point, you do take the QO rather than suck it up with a 3 year 7-8 mil deal, same with Nate…

  47. Thomas B.

    It seems the Knicks 2005 draft class will have earning that reverse the selction order.

    Frye took 2 years at about 1.6 per year
    Robinson is looking at about the MLE (5-6 million)
    Lee wants-snicker-10-12 million-ha ha.

    The first shall be last and the last shall be first…

  48. Brian Cronin

    What do you think Frye’s rationale with going to Phoenix? That Nash would somehow make his stats go up and then he’d get a bigger deal in a couple of years?

    Or that Phoenix would be a good team next year, and he would get a bigger deal in a couple of years due to his association with a good team?

    Because I don’t see how you turn down Cleveland for comparable money if you’re Frye.

  49. Brian Cronin

    When I saw Toronto signed Jack to an offer sheet, I thought, “Wow, that’s silly – Indiana will certainly match, because what kind of money could Toronto possibly be offering him?”

    When I saw it was 4 years/$20 million, well, then that explained that nicely. ;)

  50. Thomas B.

    Frye grew up in the area and has family there. I guess he wanted to be close to home and I dont think he had many better offers did he? I would have liked to see him him back in NYC. He actually may have done well in this offense and we could have used the upfront scoring. Jordan Hill does not look like the answer to me. Why did he make that pick?

  51. cwod

    Beck’s Twitter says Douglas looks good running the point — in summer league practice.

  52. danvt

    I’m optimistic (if you can use that word) that Darko can give us, at the 5, what Quentin did at the 2 and 3. I liked Quentin at times and was horrified at others. As a person I liked him, so thanks for everything Quentin. His back obviously limited him and his legacy is probably as more damaged goods (with big contract) that we have given up healthy players for. See also, Steve Francis.

    The Knicks got the third best big man prospect in this draft in Hill (unless I’m missing someone). So, I guess it was worth it with the eighth pick. NYK’s most glaring weakness has been interior defense. This has been detailed on this site many times. So, the pick might be a good one in that regard.

    His stats at Arizona were good, obviously. The team split or did better against most pac 10 competition. 1-1 against UCLA, USC, Stanford. They lost twice to Arizona State and Cal. So, the team did not dominate but Hill did well in a bad loss to UCLA going 10-15 from the floor. So, maybe he didn’t have much support.

    I can’t imagine that D’Antoni would want a guy with no shooting touch so maybe he’ll surprise there. 65% free throws isn’t so bad and he seemed to fluctuate between efficient games and way less so. So, on a given night he might go 8-10.

    I think the reason Duhon was so bad in the second half of last season was that he was worn down. We need someone like a Stephon Marbury to spell him for 20 minutes a night. I hear he’s available. Kidding, but a veteran point guard off the bench along with a good post defender is something we can do now that might be worth a few games in the standings before the summer of 2010. So, I’m for Andre Miller.

    Along the same lines, Lee and Robinson are our best players so hopefully that gets done (in an economical way). I’d like to see the team be more competitive right now and these moves would address our present on court issues. I’m pleased to see others leaning this way in their posts as well.

  53. cwod

    From Hahn’s Twitter page:

    “Eddy Curry is on the court. OK he’s not going to be mistaken for Jared Jeffries, but he is moving well. Just drills now.”

    “Running real well…dunking with ease which was not something he did at all last year. Knee issues seem behind him. But he still looks big.”

    Also:

    “@Berman_NYP is calling in tweets here from the gym! Tweet cheating!! Get a TwitterBerry Starberman!!! That’s poor twittaquite.”

  54. BigBlueAL

    For those of you on Twitter, follow John Thorpe from ESPN since he is constantly tweeting during all the Summer League games, should be interesting once the Knicks start playing. His Twitter name is coachthorpe.

  55. TDM

    “But he still looks big.”

    North of 300 big? Hey Hahn, a little more info please. Would he fit in a Smart Car?

    Stat of the day from summer league: Marcus Williams is playing for the Griz – 17 assists / 1 turnover.

  56. cwod

    Beck tweets, “ECurry has lost about 30 lbs, according to D.Walsh. Everyone mum on what he weighs now. Best guess: 330. D’Antoni says 290-300 is ideal”

  57. Ted Nelson

    “What do you think Frye’s rationale with going to Phoenix?”

    Besides geography, playing time’s also got to be part of it. With Z, Shaq, and Varejao, youngsters Hickson and Jackson, and possibly an aging ring-seeker a la Joe Smith last season there are few minutes available in Cleveland’s frontcourt. With only a 2 million dollar commitment to him I don’t think Frye would be given a minute he didn’t earn, and he might not even see all those that he did.
    Outside of Amare, Phoenix does not have one legitimate NBA bigman. Not sure if Big Ben’s playing, but he’s a shell of his former self. Robin Lopez had a poor rookie season. Earl Clark’s a rookie SF/PF with questionable work habits/ attitude. Louis Amundson… Basically, Frye’s got a chance to earn big minutes for the Suns if he’s on his game and no one else takes a huge step forward.

    “Could it be used as leverage to convince him that he would be far more marketable as a small PG than a woefully undersized SG?”

    It’s possible, and with a slightly different mindset he could probably sell himself as a PG. But his strength is not running the point, so if you’re the Knicks I don’t know if you want a mediocre little PG or a blur of an efficient SG. Whether he’s a 1 or a 2 he’s got to buy into the team concept on both sides of the ball more and stop whining to the refs. If he can really change his mindset and work on his PG skills, then I’d be all for it. All I’m saying is that one thing I thought D’Antoni did well last season was to let Nate be Nate: for the most part, great coaches and teams put players in a position to play to their strengths.

    “He is seeking a deal that averages $12 million a year, which is at least $4 million more than the Knicks are comfortable spending on Lee.”

    If that’s his stance, I think Lee’s either got to take the QO or find a team willing to offer him a one-year MLE deal that the Knicks will match… maybe a division rival or someone who would just like to see the Knicks spend an extra $6 mill next season ($3 mill + luxury tax)… then go out next offseason and see what he can get.
    At some point I think I would just take the 4 yrs 32 mill or 5 yrs 40 mill, especially if I could get the final 2 yrs as player options. But if he really thinks he’s worth 12 mill per, then I guess have a great year and at least try to get 10 or so per next offseason.

  58. Caleb

    With 6-12 teams throwing around big dollars next summer, Lee has a good shot at getting $10 million per… so I would hate to see the Knicks let him go on the market like that. Lock him up for 5 years at $40+…

    re: Nate, the reason his comps are all bigger players is a) he is basically a shooting guard, and b) he is a terrific rebounder. That said, your position is defined by who you can defend and he’ll never be able to defend SGs. I’d definitely see if we can use Nate to move Jeffries’ or even Curry’s contract, but otherwise, like Lee, I’d like to see us lock him up for 4-5 years at a decent rate, say $4-5 million. If we let him hit the market next year we probably lose him for nothing, or overpay.

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