Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Saturday, October 25, 2014

2009 Game Thread: Warriors vs Knicks.

Welcome back Jamal! We’re all hoping that if the game is on the line for Golden State, the ball is in your hands for an iso play.

110 comments on “2009 Game Thread: Warriors vs Knicks.

  1. David Crockett

    I’m watching college football today (damn you Jayhawks. damn you.), so I’m in and out with the Knicks.

    Is that PJ Carlisimo doing color commentary?

    Did Jamal get cheered or booed at intros.

  2. Gorky

    Kelly Tripucka or however you spell it is doing color. Jamal got cheered when he was introduced and when he made his first shot.

  3. Ken "The Animal" Bannister

    Ok, I thought John Andariese would sling the most homoerotic color commentary, but I really want to ask Kelly Tripucka what a, “Slobber-Knocker” is?

  4. David Crockett

    82 in the first half.

    I wouldn’t have thought these players last year could score 80 in one half, even with the other team playing no D.

  5. David Crockett

    Jeremiah Johnson, the tailback for Oregon, has run (pending a review) for 200 yards in the first half against Oregon State.

    Not hoops related, but damn.

  6. Doug

    Ok, I thought John Andariese would sling the most homoerotic color commentary, but I really want to ask Kelly Tripucka what a, “Slobber-Knocker” is?

    It’s exactly what it sounds like~

  7. jon abbey

    GS giving up an average of 125 points a game in 3 1/2 games since Jamal came on board.

    I think Harrington is going to be a solid player in this system, and Tim Thomas was even hustling a bit in that half.

    the Mobley situation is ridiculous, why can he play for every other team in the league but can’t pass NY’s physical?

  8. Z

    Oh my god! 82 points at the half!? Wish I’d watched that…

    Who suited up at the “8th man”? Our King James?

  9. beanmaxz

    GS is an atrocious defensive team, but in fairness to them, Jackson is an extremely important player on that team. He looks like just another gunner with no conscience in Nellie’s offense, but he keeps the ball moving and is one of their best defenders (I know, damning with faint praise).

    Without SJax, and playing their 4th game in 5 nights, they’re a very, very Bad Team.

  10. Gorky

    For Z, our 8th man is Jeffries. He’s not playing though.

    This game is beyond ridiculous. And Roberson actually passed the ball a few times.

  11. TDM

    I wonder what the record is for assists in a game with no turnovers. 22 assists – 0 turnovers so far for Duhon.

  12. Gorky

    Well, this was a bad team without their best player on the 2nd night of a back to back, playing 5 games in 7 nights, but I’ll take it.

  13. beanmaxz

    Insane lines for Duhon and DLee, but did Duhon really not have any turnovers? I could have sworn he threw one away at the start of the 3rd quarter (and Breen said the same thing).

    People want to hate on the Knicks for “tanking” the next two years in order to binge on free agents, but D’Antoni doesn’t plan to tank. Sure they’ve mainly beaten bad teams, but you have to admire how hard the players play for the coach.

  14. nj hoop

    Man, if we could play GS and Washington the rest of the season, we could be a 60 win team, Duhon and Lee could be Stockton and Malone… Damn, reality just kicked in!

  15. TDM

    I wonder what the record is for assists in a game with no turnovers. 22 assists – 0 turnovers so far for Duhon.

    Whoops – the box score was screwed up. I guess Duhon has 3 to’s. Still not an excellant night distributing the ball. I know there was no defense played in this game, but it was still nice to see D-Lee put up Dwight Howard-type numbers.

  16. Thomas B.

    I wonder what the record is for assists in a game with no turnovers. 22 assists – 0 turnovers so far for Duhon.

    Whoops – the box score was screwed up. I guess Duhon has 3 to’s. Still not an excellant night distributing the ball. I know there was no defense played in this game, but it was still nice to see D-Lee put up Dwight Howard-type numbers.

    Really? How many blocks did Lee have?

  17. Owen

    I can’t believe I missed this game. Lee goes off for 37 and 21? And I miss it? Me? The guy who makes his waffles in the morning? And I missed it?

    Unbelievable. I don’t know why Lee can’t hit his free throws anymore, but still, totally awesome.

    Also, let me just say that no thread is truly complete without an appearance from Ken “the Animal,” who should be the only person allowed to make disparaging remarks about Knicks announcers on this board, forever. Where have you been dude, isn’t time for one of of your gutbusting comedic monologues?

  18. jon abbey

    another impressive seven man effort on a Saturday night from our heroes. DLee looked like he did in the rookie/sophomore game, just about as much D being played in both games.

    the one thing I worry slightly about is cutting down Duhon’s minutes some once we have more guys available, he needs to be in the 38-40 range to stay productive all season.

    still .500!

  19. Gorky

    Who would have thought David Lee could have a 20 rebound night against the Warriors?
    Gee, I wonder….
    http://www.knickerblogger.net/?p=1100

    You were right about this too: The return of Jamal Crawford means more offense for Golden State, but far less defense. I’d love to see the Knicks exploit this by having Q play some minutes at the two and work Crawford in the post.

    I saw Q get a few post ups on Jamal, at least in the 1st quarter.

  20. ben bow

    Just in response to Jon Abbey’s comment of Duhon being 4th in the league in assists, i dont think thats accurate. i think hes at seventh behind CP3, Calderon, Kidd, Baron Davis, Nash, and Wade. in that order. but still, awesome game tonight.

  21. Brendan

    That was one of the most preposterous games I’ve seen in a long, long time. Probably 80% of the Knicks plays all began out of the same high pick and roll, and the entire game was the story of the Warriors finding new, inventive ways to botch the defense of that. Two men jumping out and no one rotating to the cutter, two men tearing back to the guy setting the pick and leaving the ballhandler, the backside guy on the other wing diving in and leaving his man open for a kickout…my god was that horrible.

    Don’t get me wrong, our heroes played great, but that was just very strange to watch, especially when the other 20% of the Knicks’ plays involved things like Tim Thomas posting up Kelenna Azuibuike. How does that happen?

  22. Ben R

    I like the size that Thomas and Harrington give us. If it permanantly moves Q to the two and Chandler to the three we actually have very good size 1-4 and Lee and eventually Jeffries manning the 5 is not that undersized either.

    Also Duhon and Lee put on a high pick and roll clinic. Why isn’t that done more often in our other games. This game the Knicks seemed to start over half of the plays with a high pick and roll, but in the past I remember only seeing it about one out of every 3-4 trips down the court.

    Lee since the trade:
    12 pts 13 rebs
    17 pts 15 rebs
    37 pts 21 rebs

    I loved the way the ball moved this game, with no black holes to stop ball movement we could start seeing lots of good ball movement games like this, probably not always hot shooting and lots of dunks but alot more great ball movement.

  23. Thomas B.

    Who would have thought David Lee could have a 20 rebound night against the Warriors?

    Gee, I wonder….

    http://www.knickerblogger.net/?p=1100

    Awesome. Got a pick for the 2009 Super Bowl?

    Yes, a team will win. It will not be Detroit.

    If I had a few dollars to bet– I don’t thanks to my children– I’d put in on the Titans. Speaking of money, when do I get my first profit sharing check from this venture?

  24. jon abbey

    Just in response to Jon Abbey’s comment of Duhon being 4th in the league in assists, i dont think thats accurate. i think hes at seventh behind CP3, Calderon, Kidd, Baron Davis, Nash, and Wade. in that order. but still, awesome game tonight.

    he was 7th coming into tonight at 7.3, tonight pushed him up to 8.2 which I’m pretty sure would make him 4th at the time I posted, above the last three guys on your list, before tonight’s Miami/LAC game currently in progress.

  25. Brendan

    I’m starting to warm to Richardson at the 2- the quickness will always be an issue especially with no shot blockers behind him on D, but offensively he did some nice posting up against smaller guards tonight. it also lets Nate, when healthy, back up both guard spots in different combinations.

  26. Bob Cook

    The Ultimate Teammate

    Say you were 31 and possessed Stephon’s awesome basketball skills. And the Knicks would be prepared to pay you $400k for each game. And you could play in that basketball Mecca, Madison Square Garden. Wouldn’t you do it? Wouldn’t you do it for four dollars?

    But Stephon takes the long view, the big view. He knows that if he played this season as the Knicks starting shooting guard, it would mean another 10 wins or so for them and it would cost them their chance at a great lottery pick for 2009 who could pair with Gallinari and 2010’s hot free agents to finally get the Knicks back in the game at a high level. So he denies himself, and sits. It’s the greatest act of self denial since Bill Clinton gave up interns. …Assuming Bill did.

  27. Italian Stallion

    I’m starting to warm to Harrington’s skill set. I didn’t see the whole game, but I can see how someone might come to the conclusion that he’ll contribute more wins to the Knicks than Randolph.

  28. Ray

    Tim Thomas was at times a bumbling idiot with the ball handling yesterday. Imagine if the game was on the line. Also before we hope to land LeBron we need to find a center thats going to block some shot and get some rebounds. A real anchor. If we get Bosh then thats fine…if not LeBron wont be winning any championships here.

  29. Gian Casimiro (SSoM)

    Stars must’ve aligned last night.

    Dwight Howard: 31 points, 21 rebounds, 4 blocks, 11/15 FG
    Corey Maggette: 32 points, 12 rebounds
    David Lee: 37 points, 21 rebounds
    Al Harrington: 36 points, 12 rebounds, 5/9 threes
    Chris Duhon: 12 points, 22 assists
    Kevin Durant: 30 points (on 16 shot attempts!), 7 rebounds
    O.J. Mayo: 30 points, 7 rebounds
    Devin Harris: 34 points, 6 assists, 4 rebounds, 3 steals

    (via HP)

  30. cwod

    When Tim Thomas first checked in, he had two quick TOs. He also looked really bad guarding Crawford on one possession, which resulted in a wide-open layup.

    Any chance we can draft Thabeet to be our shot-blocking big?

    Wasn’t NJ supposed to be the worst team in basketball?

  31. Gian Casimiro (SSoM)

    Wasn’t NJ supposed to be the worst team in basketball?

    Basically everyone had NJ finishing better than NY in preseason predictions. I continue to agree with those people. I also don’t think it’s a surprise that OKC is the worst team in the league, though the Clippers’ failures are a bit of a surprise.

  32. jon abbey

    Tim Thomas isn’t good, but if he tries (which he looked like he was doing at least sometimes last night), he can be an OK 8th or 9th man, which is all NY needs from him once Jeffries and Nate are back. I know I keep saying it, but they really could use Mobley, hopefully that will be resolved soon.

  33. ess-dog

    Don’t forget- Lee had 3 steals and a block as well.
    I think Bosh would fit perfectly next to Lee. The problem ironically is filling the 2 guard spot in the future (we could have had one of many 2 guards in the last draft but opted for Gallinari.)
    I’m trying to imagine Duhon, Starting 2-guard, Lebron, Lee, and Bosh… and pinching the hell out of myself.
    Therefore, I’m not remotely concerned with our former Clipper / Warrior players… I’m sure they are swell guys and they are being compensated very well. Let’s just hope we can drop 1 or 2 more contracts (Curry, I’m looking at you) and draft a great defensive 2 guard with a great 3 pt. stroke. Anyone know who to be looking at in college? Can we get Jennings next year?

  34. o_boogie

    If further tests conclude that Mobley and his ticker are unfit to play, can we have him come off the cap this season with some sort of medical exception or medical retirement?

    ——-

    “I think Bosh would fit perfectly next to Lee. The problem ironically is filling the 2 guard spot in the future (we could have had one of many 2 guards in the last draft but opted for Gallinari.)
    I’m trying to imagine Duhon, Starting 2-guard, Lebron, Lee, and Bosh… and pinching the hell out of myself.”

    That means we need to sign Wade, too.

  35. Italian Stallion

    Anyone think Defensive Rebounds may be overrated a bit?

    One of the concerns about losing Randolph was the loss of his 10+ rebounds per night. However, it seems to me that all it translated into was several more rebounds for Lee and perhaps an extra defensive rebound here or there for Harrington, Chandler etc… compared to what they would have had. Maybe it’s not a total wash, but I’m thinking it’s not a major issue.

  36. Brian Cronin

    Great win.

    Question – if Marbury is finally let go on Monday, do you think it’s a lock that Ewing is the guy who gets the spot?

    It just seems as though the Knicks have more of a need for a 2 right now than a 3.

  37. Gian Casimiro (SSoM)

    If further tests conclude that Mobley and his ticker are unfit to play, can we have him come off the cap this season with some sort of medical exception or medical retirement?

    Mobley would have to accept the medical retirement which wouldn’t seem likely because he’d been playing with the condition throughout his career. They tried to get Jerome James to accept a medical retirement and you know what happened.

    They may get an NBA appointed medical examiner and Players Association rep examine the condition to see if it’s career ending. If it is, the Knicks can waive him and clear cap space. Portland did the same with Darius Miles’ knee.

    Question – if Marbury is finally let go on Monday, do you think it’s a lock that Ewing is the guy who gets the spot?

    It just seems as though the Knicks have more of a need for a 2 right now than a 3.

    Agreed. It seems as though PEJ has the spot locked up but the backcourt is awful thin. I’m not sure which non-D-League guards are available via free agency but I think a 2 should be given a 10 day contract before PEJ gets a spot. Once Nate is ready to go, and there are once again four healthy guards, then PEJ would make a little more sense.

  38. Italian Stallion

    Great win.
    Question – if Marbury is finally let go on Monday, do you think it’s a lock that Ewing is the guy who gets the spot?
    It just seems as though the Knicks have more of a need for a 2 right now than a 3.

    I agree. They need a 2, especially if there’s a problem with Mobley. I think that will be the deciding issue. If Mobley is going to sign some sort of waiver that allows him to play, then they will sign PEJ. If he’s done, then they will look somewhere else for a 2. It’s a shame we can’t get rid James to open up another spot.

  39. ben bow

    ah jon abbey you were right about the stat things. on espn.com for some reason they had the game and everything, even the total assists i think, but they hadn’t updated assists per game when i checked. yes, now duhon is at fourth which is awesome.

  40. Z

    “They may get an NBA appointed medical examiner and Players Association rep examine the condition to see if it’s career ending. If it is, the Knicks can waive him and clear cap space. ”

    Gian– are you sure about Mobley coming off the books with a medical retirement? I think that may only be for the insurance to pick up the remaining money owed, and doesn’t effect roster or cap space until at least a season or so. This is the passage from the Salary Cap FAQ site:

    “When a player is forced to retire for medical reasons and a league-appointed physician confirms that he is medically unfit to continue playing there is a waiting period of one year following the injury or illness before a team can apply for this salary cap relief.

    Teams are not allowed to trade for disabled players and then apply for this salary cap relief. Only the team for which the player was playing when he was disabled may request this relief.

    If a player retires, even for medical reasons, his team does not receive a salary cap exception to acquire a replacement player.”

    Seems to me Mobley will not be coming off the books for us, cap wise, until his contract expires in 2010.

  41. Brian Cronin

    Speaking of “non-D-League” players, one thing I like to do each season (and I always forget to do so) is to take a look at the veterans whose careers appear to have unofficially ended the previous year (as opposed to those players who officially retired – I’m talking about the players who would like to keep playing but there’s no takers for their services).

    I think I’ll go do that now!

  42. jon abbey

    ah jon abbey you were right about the stat things. on espn.com for some reason they had the game and everything, even the total assists i think, but they hadn’t updated assists per game when i checked. yes, now duhon is at fourth which is awesome.

    heh, actually he’s fifth now, very slightly behind Baron Davis.

    the thing about Mobley is I highly highly doubt his career is over, so that even if he can’t pass a Knicks physical (which is ridiculous, he’s been playing for years with this condition), my bet is that someone else will pick him up.

  43. Brian Cronin

    Okay, some players who (appear to have) played their last NBA games last season:

    Andre Barrett
    Dan Dickau
    Ronald Dupree
    Richie Frahm
    Anfernee Hardaway
    Othella Harrington
    Troy Hudson
    Casey Jacobsen
    Jeff McInnis
    Darrick Martin (he’s debatable – he might count as officially retired)
    Ira Newble
    Bo Outlaw (he’s also debatable, as I doubt he’s still pursuing the NBA)
    Ruben Patterson
    Eric Piatkowski
    Scot Pollard
    Jake Voskuhl
    Aaron Williams
    Loren Woods

  44. Gorky

    What’s the deal with Mobley? Why is he ok to play for the Clippers, but not for the Knicks? We even let Curry play!

  45. Gian Casimiro (SSoM)

    Gian– are you sure about Mobley coming off the books with a medical retirement? I think that may only be for the insurance to pick up the remaining money owed, and doesn’t effect roster or cap space until at least a season or so. This is the passage from the Salary Cap FAQ site:

    “When a player is forced to retire for medical reasons and a league-appointed physician confirms that he is medically unfit to continue playing there is a waiting period of one year following the injury or illness before a team can apply for this salary cap relief.

    Teams are not allowed to trade for disabled players and then apply for this salary cap relief. Only the team for which the player was playing when he was disabled may request this relief.

    If a player retires, even for medical reasons, his team does not receive a salary cap exception to acquire a replacement player.”

    Seems to me Mobley will not be coming off the books for us, cap wise, until his contract expires in 2010.

    That’s interesting, though after reading that, it seems like the roster spot will still open up after the retirement. That’s really the important thing in this case.

    All of that said, I would still prefer to have Mobley than not. I don’t think any cheap contract player they sign would be an upgrade over him. They could take on an extra player in a trade but too many unknowns there for me to comment on.

  46. Ben R

    We need more depth at PG. Roberson is more of an undersized 2 than a 1 and if Mobley returns we have enough depth at the 2 especially because Chandler can fill in at the 2 in a pinch.

    When we buy out Marbury I think we should try and resign Taurean Green. He played very well last year in the D-League, is an outstanding 3 pt shooter and is not on an NBA team right now.

  47. Greene

    I think Walsh needs to be credited with a nice move on the Duhon deal. Everyone panned that deal this summer and it has been an excellent pickup. Actually wish that he had signed for a third year. He will be a valuable player that knows how to run D’Antoni’s system when we are trying to bring in LeBron et al and will be a free agent. If we lose him we will need a starting point guard in addition to the other free agents we bring in… But 22 assists. Whoa. Nash-esque. Better defender too.

  48. Italian Stallion

    I think Walsh needs to be credited with a nice move on the Duhon deal. Everyone panned that deal this summer and it has been an excellent pickup.

    That deal is working out better than I expected.

    I think we also have to give credit to D’Antoni on this one. If you notice, Nash’s numbers are down this year. I think D’Antoni’s system gives a good pass first PG the opportunity to excel. Part of it is pace, but it goes beyond that. Either way, we have a real quality PG for the first time in a long time.

    We could use a little more depth at guard and a defensive shot blocking big man. Then we’d actually have a pretty darn good team. As it is now though, I still think we are going to have a lot of trouble with all the very good and very big teams. So far though, the team is outperforming my expectations.

  49. jon abbey

    “everyone” certainly didn’t pan signing Duhon, I was begging for him from the start of the offseason.

    we don’t have a “pretty darn good team” or even close, we’ve had a really weak schedule so far. if we win any of the next five games, I’ll be impressed and surprised.

  50. Ted Nelson

    I remember the general reaction to the Duhon deal here on Knicksblogger being that it was a solid signing but the Knicks might have overpaid. I certainly don’t think I “panned” that deal.

    He’s played solidly, but I don’t think we should get too carried away because of one 22 assist game or extra minutes from the team’s lack of depth. His assist rate is still pretty average for a starting PG (28), although he has been scoring pretty efficiently (.574 TS%) and is definitely the best defensive starting PG the Knicks have had in a while. I still wouldn’t mention him in the same sentence as Nash offensively, probably not the same paragraph.

  51. Ted Nelson

    Interestingly, the Knicks have been worse both offensively and defensively with Duhon on the court. Although he’s played such a large portion of the minutes (81%) that this may be insignificant.

  52. Ted Nelson

    Okay, some players who (appear to have) played their last NBA games last season:
    Andre Barrett
    Dan Dickau
    Ronald Dupree
    Richie Frahm
    Anfernee Hardaway
    Othella Harrington
    Troy Hudson
    Casey Jacobsen
    Jeff McInnis
    Darrick Martin (he’s debatable – he might count as officially retired)
    Ira Newble
    Bo Outlaw (he’s also debatable, as I doubt he’s still pursuing the NBA)
    Ruben Patterson
    Eric Piatkowski
    Scot Pollard
    Jake Voskuhl
    Aaron Williams
    Loren Woods

    Fred Jones does seem like he might be the best option: the best overall veteran available and maybe an ok fit for D’Antoni. Might be a bit awkward after letting him walk but I think he would swallow his pride to get back in the league and pick up an NBA paycheck. Anyone know what he’s doing? He was rumored to be signing with Tau this summer, but never did.

    Eddie might also be interesting, although he shot the ball like Mardy Collins last season so he might be done. Dickau could be a serviceable back-up if the Knicks are desperate. The other guy that could be interesting is Patterson: career year 2 seasons ago and then nothing last season.

  53. jon abbey

    not sure I’d take this formula very seriously, but according to ESPN’s rankings, DLee played the sixth best game last night that anyone in the league has played so far this year, better than any single LeBron or Kobe performance.

    that’s right: Stoudemire, Parker, Bosh, Paul, Wade, DLee. how were you not at this game, Owen?

    http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/gameleaders

  54. Brian Cronin

    Why do we constantly get these absurd straw man arguments?

    “This will teach you guys who ripped Walsh for not trading Z-Bo along with a first rounder!”

    “Everyone panned the Duhon deal!”

    Just argue the actual arguments, people!

  55. Brian Cronin

    Fred Jones does seem like he might be the best option: the best overall veteran available and maybe an ok fit for D’Antoni. Might be a bit awkward after letting him walk but I think he would swallow his pride to get back in the league and pick up an NBA paycheck. Anyone know what he’s doing? He was rumored to be signing with Tau this summer, but never did.

    Eddie might also be interesting, although he shot the ball like Mardy Collins last season so he might be done. Dickau could be a serviceable back-up if the Knicks are desperate. The other guy that could be interesting is Patterson: career year 2 seasons ago and then nothing last season.

    Oh, sorry, I didn’t mean to imply that this was a list of folks who were available free agents. I was just satisfying my own curiosity about players who probably played their last NBA season last season. I don’t think any of those players are gonna be in the NBA this year.

    I can try to work up a list of actual available NBA talent!

  56. kenB

    It’s a shame Jamal’s return was on the weekend. Weekday game Knick fans are far more emotionally invested and I believe would have greeted Jamal’s introduction with greater volume and warmth. GOOD LUCK JAMAL!

  57. Brian Cronin

    Okay, readily available talent with some NBA experience – sticking to guards and small forwards:

    Mateen Cleaves (still trying to make it – gotta give him credit)
    Will Conroy
    Guillermo Diaz
    Desmon Farmer
    Taureen Green
    Adam Harrington
    Mike Harris
    Trey Johnson
    Coby Karl
    Dwayne Mitchell
    Kasib Powell
    Salim Stoudamire
    DJ Strawberry
    Jamaal Tatum
    Jeff Trepagnier

    This does not count rookies and people who have never played in the NBA at all.

  58. Ted Nelson

    Oh, sorry, I didn’t mean to imply that this was a list of folks who were available free agents. I was just satisfying my own curiosity about players who probably played their last NBA season last season. I don’t think any of those players are gonna be in the NBA this year.

    Oh, I thought you were posting the list as veterans the Knicks might look to pick up should Mobley remain unavailable and/or the Marbury situation finally ends. Given their apparent interest in winning now, the Knicks should probably look at a list like that one along with one of young guys with upside.

    Most of those guys on the first list have probably played their last NBA games, but maybe not all. A few have not played their last professional basketball games. Loren Woods is the leading scorer on Lithuania’s best team, a Euroleague team. Andre Barrett’s a bench player for FC Barcelona (they’ve got a stacked backcourt). Dickau was actually picked up by the Warriors this season, but waived after 20 days without appearing in a game.

    Stoudamire’s skill set is pretty close to Anthony Roberson’s, I don’t think you can have both those guys in your rotation. I think I’d take Taurean Green over Stoudamire, because he might also bring some PG skills to the table. I was also excited to see what the other Balkman acquiry, Bobby Jones, could do. There’s a guy who could be D’Antoni’s Raja Bell in NY (not that Bell was ever let go by 5 teams in one season, he was only released once by San Antonio).

    Strawberry could give them the defensive specialist they lost in Mardy Collins, and lit up the D-League in 5 games last season. D’Antoni’s in a good position to weigh in on that one as he coached Straw Jr. last season, I would imagine that if D’Antoni was fond of him (which he’s probably not since he can’t shoot) he’d have played for the Knicks in Summer League. (Imagine if the Knicks end up with the sons of Patrick Ewing and Darryl Strawberry on their roster…)

    I’d still put Fred Jones towards the top of my list.

    Smush Parker’s a guy who could be on both lists.

    A young athletic bigman would be nice, suppose not too many are available at this point: Chris Richard (another Florida guy), Jermareo Davidson, James Mays, Courtney Sims…

  59. caleb

    Last season I suggested a Lee for Devin Harris trade. (I forget if Harris’ extension had kicked in – might have had to play with salaries a bit)

    Totally hypothetical at this point… but would be happier now if we’d made that trade? It would also mean no Duhon, and no PF except Al Harrington….

    Some interesting names on that list – Stoudamire is a pure, pure shooter. True, he and Roberson bring an identical game – but I haven’t been too impressed by Roberson. I’d have said Stoudamire is a better version, at least he was a couple of years ago.

    DJ Strawberry was the best athlete at the draft combine two years ago – people say he can defend. Being cut by the Suns these days is almost a guarantee that you actually can play. It’s like opposite-land out there — they dumped him to sign Goran Dragic, a point guard who almost has more turnovers than assists, burning it up with a 38.4 TS% and a PER of 4.59.

    For two years straight people have written articles about Coby Karl, how he really can play, he’s having a great camp, he’s gonna stick, might even be a rotation player… oops. He’s cut. Has anyone ever seen him? Which verdict is correct?

  60. Italian Stallion

    we don’t have a “pretty darn good team” or even close, we’ve had a really weak schedule so far. if we win any of the next five games, I’ll be impressed and surprised.

    I agree. I said we’d be pretty darn good if we had better depth at guard and more importantly signed a solid defensive shot blocking big man.

  61. Italian Stallion

    Nets took down the Suns behind Harris’ 47-point night. I never realized how good he was.

    Kidd is playing very well this year, but If you are Cuban, you can’t feel very good about that deal with Harris being so young and having a break out year. By the way, before the start of the season I said the Nets were going to be better than people thought, but it appears they are actually also better than I thought.

  62. njhoop
    Nets took down the Suns behind Harris’ 47-point night. I never realized how good he was.

    Kidd is playing very well this year, but If you are Cuban, you can’t feel very good about that deal with Harris being so young and having a break out year. By the way, before the start of the season I said the Nets were going to be better than people thought, but it appears they are actually also better than I thought.

    I am shocked that they beat the Suns on a back to back after slamming the Jazz. Any team in the NBA would be thrilled with a 3-1 trip which included LA, Utah and Phoenix. Don’t watch much of the Nets, but from what I’ve seen, they’re playing really solid D and of course Harris is playing out of his mind. 9-7 with a really easy schedule coming up, I guess we have to consider them serious playoff contenders now.

  63. jon abbey
    we don’t have a “pretty darn good team” or even close, we’ve had a really weak schedule so far. if we win any of the next five games, I’ll be impressed and surprised.

    I agree. I said we’d be pretty darn good if we had better depth at guard and more importantly signed a solid defensive shot blocking big man.

    yes, and that’s not correct, we’d just have a chance in 2/3 of the games then instead of maybe half.

    “pretty darn good” is a 48-50 win team IMO, right now we’re maybe a 32-34 win team and adding the two pieces you suggest wouldn’t bridge that gap.

  64. Italian Stallion

    we don’t have a “pretty darn good team” or even close, we’ve had a really weak schedule so far. if we win any of the next five games, I’ll be impressed and surprised.

    I agree. I said we’d be pretty darn good if we had better depth at guard and more importantly signed a solid defensive shot blocking big man.

    yes, and that’s not correct, we’d just have a chance in 2/3 of the games then instead of maybe half.
    “pretty darn good” is a 48-50 win team IMO, right now we’re maybe a 32-34 win team and adding the two pieces you suggest wouldn’t bridge that gap.

    I guess it depends on the quality of the big man. If we could get a guy like Camby WITHOUT giving up a key piece, I think we could be better than a .500 team. As it is now though, I think we will lose the vast majority of games to every team with good inside scoring big men because our weakness in that area is so extreme the other team will have a field day.

  65. Thomas B.

    Lee and Curry to the Clips for Camby and an unprotected 2009 or 2010 draft pick?

    Lee’s stock is as high as it is going to get. We need to secure a draft pick to replace to 2010 we lose the Utah. A lottery pick give us another shot at Rubio or Griffin. We get rid of Curry’s contract (11 million) and remove the worry of signing Lee (7-10 million).

    Camby gives some rebounding and shot blocking, which we sorely need.

    Getting Curry frees the Clips to move Caveman. Lee’s rebounding makes Curry’s less a problem. Gordon and Davis handle the scoring.

  66. Owen

    “remove the worry of signing Lee (7-10 million). ”

    So worrisome. Honestly, that’s what terrifies me as a Knicks fan. That we might break with 8 years of deeply entrenched tradition and actually sign a player to a contract for less than he is worth.

  67. Ted Nelson

    Lee and Curry to the Clips for Camby and an unprotected 2009 or 2010 draft pick?
    Lee’s stock is as high as it is going to get. We need to secure a draft pick to replace to 2010 we lose the Utah. A lottery pick give us another shot at Rubio or Griffin. We get rid of Curry’s contract (11 million) and remove the worry of signing Lee (7-10 million).
    Camby gives some rebounding and shot blocking, which we sorely need.
    Getting Curry frees the Clips to move Caveman. Lee’s rebounding makes Curry’s less a problem. Gordon and Davis handle the scoring.

    So the Clippers give up an unprotected lottery pick to reconstruct the 07-08 Knicks frontcourt? They trade for a bad center who can’t even break the Knicks’ rotation so they can trade away two solid centers?

  68. Thomas B.

    “remove the worry of signing Lee (7-10 million). ”

    So worrisome. Honestly, that’s what terrifies me as a Knicks fan. That we might break with 8 years of deeply entrenched tradition and actually sign a player to a contract for less than he is worth.

    I’ll try it again using small words this time..

    Signing Lee and Robinson without moving Curry would take the cap space fans want for a big time free agent. My suggestion, however implausible it may be (thanks jon, you are correct the Curry/Randolph front court worked so well in NY, of course LA would jump at it!), removes the concern of losing cap space from keeping Lee (7 million was the most conservative estimate). The move also secures a lottery pick, which would be very helpful towards adding talent without overpaying to get it.

    I like Lee, but I would rather have Bosh and James with Robinson, Gallo, Chandler, and two 2009 picks-one of them lottery (maybe 2 if the Knicks struggle) over James, Lee, Robinson, Chandler, Gallo, and 1 2009 pick. If moving Lee helps to secure James and Bosh, then I think you have to do it.

    Whoops, I used a few words with three syllables. :-)

  69. Thomas B.

    Lee and Curry to the Clips for Camby and an unprotected 2009 or 2010 draft pick?
    Lee’s stock is as high as it is going to get. We need to secure a draft pick to replace to 2010 we lose the Utah. A lottery pick give us another shot at Rubio or Griffin. We get rid of Curry’s contract (11 million) and remove the worry of signing Lee (7-10 million).
    Camby gives some rebounding and shot blocking, which we sorely need.
    Getting Curry frees the Clips to move Caveman. Lee’s rebounding makes Curry’s less a problem. Gordon and Davis handle the scoring.

    So the Clippers give up an unprotected lottery pick to reconstruct the 07-08 Knicks frontcourt? They trade for a bad center who can’t even break the Knicks’ rotation so they can trade away two solid centers?

    Since when does what we post here have to make sense? I mean I spent all Saturday night/Sunday reading Lee and Duhon ? Howard and Nash. Is this trade any less plausible? Does anything done by the Clippers ever make sense? It not like I said San Antonio would fall for this mess, sheesh.

  70. Caleb

    Agree that Miami is likely to want Lee, but their draft pick won’t be high enough to make it worth it for us… plus, I wouldn’t want to re-sign Marion, past 30 and in steep decline.

    Lee’s stock is as high as it is going to get.

    I seriously doubt that, especially now that he’s starting.

    But I’d move him for a top-8 pick, maybe top-10… saving a big chunk of money vs. the cap, without giving up talent, or much talent, long-term. It’s not Lee & Robinson vs. Bosh. It’s Lee & Robinson vs. Chance of Signing Bosh. If it came to that, there’s always a sign n trade.

    If we trade Lee, won’t be the Clips – they just got a PF.

    And it won’t be an unprotected pick, either. If anyone was ever tempted, they just saw what happened to Isiah.

    Other questions:
    Why would the Clips trade Camby for Curry?

    Why would they want Curry in place of Kaman?

    Why would they want Curry for any reason at all?

    Why would we want Camby? (unless it’s for someone we don’t want, anyway). I guess this is controversial – after all, if he gets healthy, Marcus can still play – for now – but do we want an over-35 center on a rebuilding team? If we win a few extra games this year it only messes up our lottery odds. I’m not in favor of tanking, but I don’t want to trade for players who aren’t part of the long-term plan.

  71. Ben R

    Once we move Curry we will have enough money to sign Nate, Lee and two max free agents in 2010.

    Besides if we have to have a salary cap casualty then I would much rather have it be Nate than Lee.

  72. Owen

    “Besides if we have to have a salary cap casualty then I would much rather have it be Nate than Lee.”

    Exactly. Why do we need to sign Nate? It’s a lot easier to find someone like him than someone like Lee. Before this year, Nate had been a below average NBA player. In 418 minutes this year, he has posted very good numbers, but that’s 16 games worth of data.

    I don’t know. I think we can live without him. I also think you are muck more likely to find a replacement for Nate in the draft than for Lee.

  73. Italian Stallion

    “If” we are talking about 2010 plan, we have one major long term goal left – getting rid of Curry’s contract.

    “If” we want to be more competitive this year (the short term goal) we need a defensive shot blocking center. However, I don’t see how we can get anyone of any quality without giving up someone we’d like to keep around for the long term. It doesn’t make much sense to sacrifice the long term to be better this year. Unless Walsh has something up his sleeve, I don’t see it happening.

    “If” we can accomplish the first goal, we can sign both Lee and Robinson plus a couple of free agents.

    “If” we can’t accomplish the first goal, it may be necessary to include either Lee or Robinson (most likely Lee) in a deal to move Curry.

    The key seems to be getting Curry back in shape (LOL) so that he can play and make it more likely the Knicks can move him. Based on what I am hearing/reading though, we have a better chance of James getting in shape and playing than Curry. In fact, it sounds to me like Curry is turning into a new version of James. He wants to sit around and collect checks until his contract is over and then get a job at Burger King as a food taster.

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