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Friday, October 31, 2014

2009 Game Thread: Nets vs Knicks

[Back to the old blog style for the last game of the season. In case anyone is curious I'll leave the forums up for now, because a few threads are still active.]

These two teams have nothing to play for, or more specifically nothing to win for. A Knick win combined with a Raptor loss would have the two teams tied at 32 wins, meaning a coin flip would determine which team picks 8th in the draft. As for the Nets, a win could move them from a potential 10th overall pick to 14th, depending on if Charlotte and Indiana both lose (and of course another coin flip).

If sticking it to their cross-tunnel rivals with a loss wouldn’t be enough, New York has 4 young players that they should be giving maximum playing time to: Chris Sims, Mouhamed Sene, Joe Crawford, and newly signed Chris Hunter. If the 4 don’t get a combined 80 minutes and the Knicks win, Mike D’Antoni will lose a half a letter grade in his KnickerBlogger year end evaluation.

63 comments on “2009 Game Thread: Nets vs Knicks

  1. daaarn

    I agree. I haven’t been paying too much attention to the roster recently, but going by the blog post, it seems like we’ve signed a lot of end-of-bench guys, and the Knicks should play them and see if they’re worth anything. Speaking of, since I haven’t been keeping track, have any of those guys actually shown some potential, or is there still not enough to evaluate them on?

  2. Mike K. (KnickerBlogger) Post author

    There seems to be little to judge them on. Actually the Knicks dumped Sims for Hunter. I’m not exactly sure why they are doing this. FWIR, Sims’ numbers were better than Hunter’s. My guess is that they’re looking for someone that can score and play some D. But is 10 days really enough to evaluate such a thing? It’s like the Wafer/Roberson affair. The Knicks should be able to figure out which NBDL guys they want by watching the NBDL and using that as a bigger yardstick than just a few practices.

    The other thing that comes across my mind is perhaps this is a Walsh/D’Antoni thing. Maybe Walsh wants D’Antoni to use some of these young guys, and just keeps signing them until Coach finds one that he likes. Hopefully this is done in a non-frictional way.

  3. ess-dog

    Why the hell are we playing all our starters? Is this D’Antoni’s way of saying none of you are safe for next year? I guess we don’t have any ‘stars’ to rest like NJ…

  4. BigBlueAL

    Crawford looks horrible. Back to the NBDL for him next season. Sene just for his size could be worth a look for next season.

  5. jon abbey

    totally forgot about this game until just now, but good to see our blowout win didn’t cost us anything, 8th going into the lottery.

    65 double/doubles for Lee, leading the league, that’s amazing. we all know his deficiencies, but got to give it up for DLee for a superb season, now we’ll see what happens. it’s going to be really depressing if he signs elsewhere for more than Walsh wants to pay, and we lose him for nothing.

  6. daaarn

    Going thru the game notes, it looks like Chris Hunter didn’t even dress due to an injury. Kinda makes me wonder why Walsh even signed him (not to mention the timing this late in the regular season) instead of just trying him out during the summer or something.

  7. Brian Cronin

    Ah…the East, where our #4 seed won less games than the West’s #8 seed (and only one more win than the West’s #9 seed).

    By the way, how the heck did the Hawks win 47 games? That just seems like some sort of misprint. Is Joe Johnson worth getting in 2010 if the long shots don’t come through?

  8. Ray

    No to Joe Johnson. He shouldnt be our main guy he should only be a sidekick to a LeBron. Im definitely rooting for the Cavs in the playoffs because him getting some titles out of the way makes the chances of him coming here greater. So , go get um LeBron.

  9. d-mar

    No to Joe Johnson. He shouldnt be our main guy he should only be a sidekick to a LeBron. Im definitely rooting for the Cavs in the playoffs because him getting some titles out of the way makes the chances of him coming here greater. So , go get um LeBron.

    I agree about Johnson, and the same goes for Bosh. They’re both All Stars, but neither is a franchise player.

    Re: LeBron, there’s been 2 schools of thought on this blog about whether a championship increases or decreases his chances of coming to NY. I think there’s no chance he leaves Cleveland no matter what happens, a friend of mine out there said he just built a huge mansion, and I think he may even re-sign this summer. The next question is, can we get Wade, and I think he’s staying put also.So our best shot is to somehow land 2 of the next tier of FA’s.

  10. Owen

    “Is Joe Johnson worth getting in 2010 if the long shots don’t come through?”

    Hmmm, strange that the Hawks improved so much since the arrival of Al Horford, yet he gets so little of the credit…

  11. Nick C.

    Hmmm, strange that the Hawks improved so much since the arrival of Al Horford, yet he gets so little of the credit…

    The numbers may say otherwise, but having Bibby running the point rather than Tyronn Lue or whatever else they had may be more than just coincidence. How can you ignore the fact that they signed Randolph Morris and lo and behold their best season in decades?!!? :-)

  12. Z-man

    Too weird seeing “J. Crawford” in the boxscore.

    Consider this equation: Lee + Nate = 1 free agent @ $16 mill + X

    (X represents anything from 0 to whatever is garnered in sign and trade deals, ideally draft picks.)

    Even if X turns out to be 0, I think there is a player out there- either via FA or trade-at $16 mill per that will justify losing Nate and Lee for nothing.

    Obviously, if it is believed that Lee will be easily tradable at $10 mill per, or Nate at $6 mill per, then holding on to them makes more sense, as well as if signing them would help us get rid of the albatrosses.

    In my 40+ years as a fan, I don’t recall ever being as unsure about what we’ll be seeing next opening day at the close of a season.

  13. Z-man

    I guess I can’t complain about this season too much since I predicted 32 wins at the onset.

  14. Ray

    Z-Man..that equation actually makes sense. Realistically, do we really need two top tier free agents? Maybe. If we want the Jordan ,Pippen formula. Im just thinking to myself here but it seems every championship teams has at least two. It just means more to the city when some of the talent on the team has been nurtured on the team through youth and the draft. I hope more so thats what we’ll be able to do. I was looking at NBA draft express at they have us picking Tyreke Evans at 8. Although I love Curry im thinking this wouldnt be such a bad pick for us. He’s 19, 6 foot 5 , can run the point, among the leaders in steals,points. Gets to the line and can finish after contact. Needs to work on the jumper and cut down on turnovers but i think good coaching can help him wtith that. I think he is going to have some good workouts and his stock will soar probably to top 3-5 range so who knows if he’ll even be available at 8. Im just thinking he’d be a nice fit for us.

  15. jon abbey

    I like Evans, but I don’t think he’s much of a passer, which we really need at PG in this (or any?) offense.

    here’s my stat from this season for people to be optimistic going forward, based solely on actual play, not personnel or cap room or anything:

    number of 29+ point wins for the 2008-2009 season:

    Cleveland: 4 (including one against us, but I digress)
    Boston: 4
    Knicks: 3
    Lakers: 1

    we’re right there! :)

  16. Owen

    Who won our prediction contest from the beginning of the year? I think I was off by one game…

  17. Z-man

    I predicted 32 wins. Pay up, boys.

    Seriously, considering the roster changes, the Steph and Eddy debacles, the Gallo injury, the lack of depth at PG and C, this was as good as could have been expected.

  18. Dan Panorama

    Re: LeBron, there’s been 2 schools of thought on this blog about whether a championship increases or decreases his chances of coming to NY. I think there’s no chance he leaves Cleveland no matter what happens, a friend of mine out there said he just built a huge mansion, and I think he may even re-sign this summer.

    Regarding the mansion, most NBA players do not live in the city they play in so I wouldn’t read too much into it. See today’s NYT article:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/16/sports/basketball/16cars.html?ref=sports

  19. daaarn

    Who won our prediction contest from the beginning of the year? I think I was off by one game…

    Here’s the 2008 season prediction thread:
    http://www.knickerblogger.net/?p=948
    Wow, I actually got it (though I don’t know if I should feel good about it or just disappointed about the team):

    I’ll come at this from the other end, and predict about 50 losses +/- 2.

  20. ess-dog

    I think the Ess-dog remembers guessing 32 wins earlier this year.
    Evans seems more like a 2 guard a la Eric Gordon at the next level. He wouldn’t be the worst pick in the world.
    I think Wade would come up to NY. The Heat core isn’t that great. D’Antoni or Spolestra?
    Lebron, I’m starting to think, could leave if he won a championship. The potential market here in NY is unreal. Could we offer him a percentage of the gate? Build a private skybox for him? That whole arena would change if he or Wade came here. It would be great for NYC, even greater for Dolan.

  21. Mike K. (KnickerBlogger) Post author

    Looking at that thread, this was an interesting tidbit from “George from Scottsdale”

    “41 wins!!! Look to trade Crawford, GS or Wash?”

    41 wins was way off, but Crawford to GS – not bad. :-)

  22. Mike K. (KnickerBlogger) Post author

    I predicted 32 wins. Pay up, boys.

    Seriously, considering the roster changes, the Steph and Eddy debacles, the Gallo injury, the lack of depth at PG and C, this was as good as could have been expected.

    Brian Cronin predicted the same amount, two comments before yours.

  23. Reebok1303

    I’m more of a stalker here than a poster, and I actually voted to keep the forums – I thought that the end of the season and the disappoint over the team’s recent play had caused a natural decrease in discussion – but I absolutely love how there are already 30 comments in this thread when a post about this game in the forums would most likely have generated only a handful at most. Great job Mike K. at reading your audience and understanding the best way to encourage discussions.
    PS. Congrats on the new addition to the family!

  24. Dan Panorama

    I do note that for all the talk of a dismal season, the Knicks beat most of the predictions noted up top in the original post. Hollinger’s 28, for example.

  25. Z-man
    I predicted 32 wins. Pay up, boys.
    Seriously, considering the roster changes, the Steph and Eddy debacles, the Gallo injury, the lack of depth at PG and C, this was as good as could have been expected.

    Brian Cronin predicted the same amount, two comments before yours.

    I will be happy to split my winnings with him and the others whose painstaking analysis of myriad advanced stats led to the correct total. I must regrettably admit that my analysis put the win total at 31.49768932 and I took the liberty of rounding up. Anyone interested in purchasing the algorithm I employed, let me know.

  26. Jon W.

    I’ve followed this site for a long time. I don’t know enough to comment (I’m here to learn), but I had to sign up for an account today just to say how happy I am to see this old style back. I couldn’t follow the site through the forums, so it was as if one of my top websites just disappeared. So good to have it back. Thanks Mike K.

  27. Mike K. (KnickerBlogger) Post author

    Great job Mike K. at reading your audience and understanding the best way to encourage discussions.

    It doesn’t take a genius to change back to something that worked for 4 years, and 90% of the audience voted for. Honestly I liked the forums, but it’s just one of those things that didn’t work as well. I was relieved to wake up to 20+ messages to this post today.

  28. Mike K. (KnickerBlogger) Post author

    I’ve followed this site for a long time. I don’t know enough to comment (I’m here to learn), but I had to sign up for an account today just to say how happy I am to see this old style back. I couldn’t follow the site through the forums, so it was as if one of my top websites just disappeared. So good to have it back. Thanks Mike K.

    Thank you. I love hearing from the lurkers!

  29. Z

    …just to say how happy I am to see this old style back. I couldn’t follow the site through the forums, so it was as if one of my top websites just disappeared. So good to have it back. Thanks Mike K.

    I like the timing too. The day the season ends. Nice closure to a “do over” season.

    Sort of like that season of Dallas when Bobby Ewing wakes up and the whole season turned out to just be his bad dream…

  30. ess-dog

    Nate is supposedly telling people he’s maybe a goner. If he walks without us getting anything, I’ll be pissed at Walsh.
    I’ve got a gut feeling we get a 2nd draft pick this year- even if we outright buy one. We need some able bodies. Did Sene look good last night? I don’t care if he sounds like a sinus medicine, if he can board and block shots, we should keep him.
    By the way, did anyone hear about the “Isaiah Thompson” introduction yesterday? Hilarious. And the perfect slap in the face to the smiling weasel.

  31. Owen

    “Nate is supposedly telling people he’s maybe a goner. If he walks without us getting anything, I’ll be pissed at Walsh.”

    If he walks without us getting rid of Jeffries I will be disappointed. But I don’t know, I think Walsh has long term plans for him. Which is understandable. He was well above average this year, crowd favorite, etc.

    But I would still rather use him to clean the cupboard a bit more, a pretty consistent position of mine. It’s not the Nate Robinson’s of this world that make you a championship contender…

  32. Gorky

    By the way, did anyone hear about the “Isaiah Thompson” introduction yesterday? Hilarious. And the perfect slap in the face to the smiling weasel.

    Did anyone read the Wojnarowski hate-article on Isiah? It made me feel bad for the guy.

  33. BigBlueAL

    Ive been saying for awhile I think Nate is as good as gone. Unless he gets basically no offers to speak of, and even then he might just sign the 1-year qualifying offer and still be traded. Actually that might be the best way to trade him if he does do that, easier to package him with a Jeffries contract if that happens for example.

    I could care less if Nate leaves, as long as the Knicks draft a guard…

  34. Brian Cronin

    I predicted 32 wins. Pay up, boys.

    Ha!

    When I saw that, I thought, “Wow, they ended up with 32 wins? That sounds familiar.”

    Go me!

    Of course, my excellent predicative skills were based on the fact that no one had guessed 32 yet at that point, but still…

  35. ess-dog

    Ive been saying for awhile I think Nate is as good as gone. Unless he gets basically no offers to speak of, and even then he might just sign the 1-year qualifying offer and still be traded. Actually that might be the best way to trade him if he does do that, easier to package him with a Jeffries contract if that happens for example.
    I could care less if Nate leaves, as long as the Knicks draft a guard…

    This is a good point, because most of the teams in the league right now (roughly 2/3rds) are in dire, dire straits financially. And I think it’s worse than owners are letting on, so Nate’s best option might be the qualifying offer. The only problem is that some owner might think that the kryptoNate show will be a huge draw and fill seats, and be willing to pay him more for that.
    On the flipside of that, if things get even worse, we could get some real talent for our expiring contracts (Harrington, Hughes) because some teams will be so desperate to shed contracts and save money. If we could do that while saving room for 2010, that would be amazing.
    It really makes me wish we’d pulled the trigger on that Sacto trade.

  36. Caleb

    “I don’t care if he sounds like a sinus medicine..”

    That’s good.. now if it only came in extra-strength..

  37. Caleb

    re: Nate, the Knicks are dealing from a position of strength so if he goes, it won’t be for nothing.

  38. Z

    re: Nate, the Knicks are dealing from a position of strength so if he goes, it won’t be for nothing.

    So you are saying the Knicks should match any offer at the mid-level for Nate?

    That could end up costing over $50 million for a guy who is cheaply replaceable. Really, the only thing I’ve liked about Robinson over the years is that his production per dollar was good. In my eyes if he’s making JJ money, he just becomes another over-paid, cap-busting hindrance.

    Not sure if that is really a “position of strength”.

  39. Z

    re: Nate, the Knicks are dealing from a position of strength so if he goes, it won’t be for nothing.

    So you are saying the Knicks should match any offer at the mid-level for Nate?

    That could end up costing over $50 million for a guy who is cheaply replaceable. Really, the thing I’ve liked best about Robinson over the years is that his production per dollar has been better than other Knicks’. In my eyes if he’s making JJ money, he just becomes another over-paid, cap-busting hindrance.

    Not sure if that is really a “position of strength”.

  40. ess-dog

    Where are you getting $50M from? Let’s say mid-level is $6M, that would be a max of $36M, no? $50M would be a $8/$9M per. That seems awfully high for a 6th man.

    I don’t think anyone will pay 9 mil for a guy who is absolutely not a starter in this economy. This off -season will be interesting. A lot of people will be out of work. Steph? Will he get a new contract ANYWHERE? If we lose Nate maybe we can get Jarrett Jack for less? Didn’t he have some big games at the Garden?
    Also, how much do you think Jason Maxiell would cost?

  41. Z

    Where are you getting $50M from? Let’s say mid-level is $6M, that would be a max of $36M, no? $50M would be a $8/$9M per. That seems awfully high for a 6th man.

    $50 million is after taxes (and it’s actually $72 million, based on a max MLE of $36 mil). Thought the luxury tax is not relevant to the salary cap, Walsh has indicated a general shift away from reckless spending and towards fiscal responsibility. Paying that much dough to a guy who can be replaced by any number of cheaper, younger players is not exactly responsible, and doesn’t really qualify as a “position of strength”

  42. ess-dog
    Where are you getting $50M from? Let’s say mid-level is $6M, that would be a max of $36M, no? $50M would be a $8/$9M per. That seems awfully high for a 6th man.

    $50 million is after taxes (and it’s actually $72 million, based on a max MLE of $36 mil). Thought the luxury tax is not relevant to the salary cap, Walsh has indicated a general shift away from reckless spending and towards fiscal responsibility. Paying that much dough to a guy who can be replaced by any number of cheaper, younger players is not exactly responsible, and doesn’t really qualify as a “position of strength”

    I would let Nate go and go after McCants for 3.5 mil. McCants shoots a better 3 ball.

  43. Owen

    Delonte West is the prototype for the kind of guy I would like to find to replace Nate. Productive and dirt cheap at 3 years for 14 million….

    Wallace and Varejao have played great, and Mo Williams has been ok, but West was really a great addition. That’s the kind of low risk, high reward gamble that the Knicks haven’t seemed to feel like making in a long time.

  44. Brian Cronin

    I think Marbury will easily find work. He has not embarrassed himself on Boston at all.

    The only question will be whether he finds a gig that will pay him more than a million/$2 million. That I find hard to believe, but I bet he can easily find a gig for $1-2 million.

  45. adambede

    Sorry to spam, but I need to reiterate that it’s really great for us lurkers to have the old format back.

    I love the extended conversations on this site.

  46. jon abbey

    “Wallace and Varejao have played great, and Mo Williams has been ok, but West was really a great addition. That’s the kind of low risk, high reward gamble that the Knicks haven’t seemed to feel like making in a long time.”

    he’s the kind of player that doesn’t help much if you don’t have a superstar like LeBron, who makes everyone around him far better. or do you think it’s an accident West wasn’t nearly as good on his previous teams and was pretty much handed to Cleveland for nothing?

  47. Z-man

    Jon, I totally agree. However, I also agree that the players we have taken chances on were high risk players like Jamal, Zach, and Eddy. The new players we have brought in, like Harrington and Hughes, were logical cap moves and low risk, but set us up to make West-type moves now. The bottom line is, nothing we do woll make much difference until we get a superstar or two.

  48. jon abbey

    “The bottom line is, nothing we do will make much difference until we get a superstar or two.”

    exactly, which is why Walsh went for Gallinari over Eric Gordon or whoever last year, because Gallinari had the most potential in this direction of anyone left, along with probably more potential to be a total bust.

  49. ess-dog

    Um, I think Gordon is going to be pretty good (unless the Clipper organization screws him up, I mean until they do.)
    Has anyone seen this John Wall fella play? I hope he gets into this draft, because the more talent, the better for us this year. Is he ranked higher than Jennings was? Or better than Warren for that matter?

  50. jon abbey

    John Wall was in high school this year, he can’t go pro because of the stupid, unfair rules in place.

  51. ess-dog

    John Wall was in high school this year, he can’t go pro because of the stupid, unfair rules in place.

    Yes, but I think there’s a unique situation where he did 5 yrs in high school and is 19. So he might be eligible. The NBA still has to make a ruling I think.

  52. d-mar

    Watching some of the Bulls-Celts game yesterday was equally enjoyable and painful. Enjoyable watching the Celts lose, painful watching our 2 lost draft picks, Noah and Thomas, start and fill the stat sheets. (Hope you’re enjoying watching the playoffs, Eddy) And I still get pissed off that the Bulls got Rose, and now he’s showing he’s a true star in this league. Oh well, what’s done is done I guess..

  53. ess-dog

    I know d-mar. It’s quite painful. Not only do we still suck, but the horribulls are starting to fulfill their promise. I’m feeling very down about it all.

  54. jon abbey

    the missed chances at Rondo and Bynum are way more upsetting to me than the results of this trade, Isiah could have easily drafted them instead of Balkman and Frye.

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