Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Thursday, October 23, 2014

2009 Game Thread: Knicks @ Bucks

As per Thomas B.’s Week in advance:

What to watch for: Second chance shots. The Bucks are the best in the league right now at offensive rebounding, and they’re second in the league on the defensive glass. The Knicks are not a strong offensive rebounding team (27th) and they are in the bottom half of the league in defensive rebounding (20th). New York nees to focus on ball movement and getting a good shot as second chances may not be there.

What to watch for 2: Interior defense of the Knicks. Bogut, Jefferson, and Sessions are each adept at getting to the rim. The Knicks will need to work to keep those three from securing easy buckets in the paint.

105 comments on “2009 Game Thread: Knicks @ Bucks

  1. Kikuchiyo

    Lotta Roberson minutes tonight?

    I guess we’ll be seeing a lot of new combinations in the days ahead.

  2. Z

    Having refused to watch the Knicks until Randolph was traded, I have fallen a little behind. Is Curry really hurt, or is he simply out of favor, a la Marbury? (Or simply out of shape, a la Eddy Curry)?

    Seems it’s time for D’Antoni to really earn his money by somehow making Curry tradable, bad skills, bad contract, bad heart and all…

  3. Z

    Thanks Knick Fan–

    Seems like Walshtoni may be taking the same path to divorce with Curry as they have with Marbury. If they can make him immensely uncomfortable perhaps Curry will opt out after this season, just to get off our inactive list…

  4. Z

    Is Tim Thomas really going to play for us again? Can’t Walsh just suck it up just once and buy a guy out? We need roster spots now and his contract isn’t even an asset (as jon pointed out earlier, we have more than enough expiring contracts to offer around next year).

    People don’t want to pay to watch Tim Thomas play for the Knicks. It was bad enough the first time around.

  5. Frank

    Is Tim Thomas really going to play for us again? Can’t Walsh just suck it up just once and buy a guy out? We need roster spots now and his contract isn’t even an asset (as jon pointed out earlier, we have more than enough expiring contracts to offer around next year).
    People don’t want to pay to watch Tim Thomas play for the Knicks. It was bad enough the first time around.

    But Tim Thomas under D’Antoni was an important part of a great Suns team in 05-06 — it’s not outrageous to think he might be worth keeping around until Lebron time.

  6. Z

    But Thomas wasn’t playing WITH D’Antoni. He was playing with Steve Nash, Shawn Marion, and Amare…

    Tim Thomas will look more like the 2004-05 version, when he last shared the ball with Malik Rose.

  7. blackriderx

    With the moves, uh, does someone have the current Knick roster handy, starters, depth chart guesses, etc.?

  8. Italian Stallion

    With the moves, uh, does someone have the current Knick roster handy, starters, depth chart guesses, etc.?

    We still suck very badly (probably even worse), but our long term prospects are much better than yesterday.

  9. jon abbey

    “”[Randolph's] good for us now and in the future,” said Clippers coach Mike Dunleavy, whose team had been lacking an inside presence since Elton Brand left in July to sign with the Philadelphia 76ers. “It was something we felt like we had to do.”

    hahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahaha
    hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
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    hahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahaha
    hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
    hahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahaha
    hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
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    hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
    hahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

    um, good luck with that, Mike.

  10. Rich P

    Is getting under the cap so quickly a priority so that we can resign nate and lee AND go after bron and amare/wade/bosh? If we get rid of jefferies and curry, we will have absolutely no one besides the greenest rooks in 2010. Cap space is cap space, but won’t we need some semblance of a team to attract free agents? I feel like I know the real answer to this, but I’m really wondering aloud if lee and nate are in the long term plans.

  11. TDM

    “But Tim Thomas under D’Antoni was an important part of a great Suns team in 05-06″

    Uhhh – I don’t think so. He turns it on in the playoffs, but that’s about it. Dude’s got all the physical attributes to play at a high level, but no heart.

  12. Italian Stallion

    IMO Curry doesn’t really care about being a basketball player. He got his big long contract and now all he wants to do is enjoy his life without working so hard. It’s a sad story for Knicks fans, but you can’t make a guy passionate about his occupation. A person either wants to excel and achieve at what he does or he doesn’t. Sometimes in life people wind up doing the wrong thing for a living either for money or even accidentally. I think that’s the case with Curry. He had enough natural ability to skate through and make the pros, but not enough to become a really good player.

  13. Owen

    Yeah, he is really annoying isn’t he….

    This is going to be interesting. I have to say, the smile on David Lee’s face during warmups was broader than I have ever seen before. Looked truly happy, even happier than when I cook waffles for him…

  14. BiggieSmalls

    if jerome James is supposedly not injured why is his fat arse not at the game and in uniform

    Surely we can get a few minutes for his 6+ million

  15. TDM

    It’ll be interesting to see how they try to compensate for the loss of 40 points, 14 rebounds and 6 assists.

    At least we have Malik to pick up the slack. . .

  16. David Crockett

    Luc Richard Mbah Moute with 10 1st quarter boards. Effective defender at UCLA, but the worst hands I’ve seen this side of Jared Jeffries.

  17. Ray

    Why not put him in? I dont think he should let his guys get abused like this. Hes getting paid. Minutes are available. Let him play.

  18. Owen

    Yeah, why not, I feel so good I don’t think it would bother me to see Marbury out there….

    Meanwhile, DLee is looking ok. Getting abused on defense, but canned a few nice jumpshots….

  19. Ted Nelson

    I’m a little suprised that everyone is so happy the Knicks “got cap space today” and suddenly have a brighter future. This is not necessarily true: Crawford could have opted out after this season, I would call it about 50/50. After all the different Harrington to NY rumors for the past few weeks (Curry, Rose, Crawford, 3-way), I think it’s hard to see this is a Crawford dump rather than a deal for the great Al Harrington. The Knicks really wanted him badly.

  20. Owen

    We need to have a poll on whether Crawford would have opted out, I don’t think there is anyway that would have happened….

  21. Z

    Ted– they wanted Harrington as a stop gap, like Duhon, to get the team to 2010. And there is no 50/50 chance he’ll be of the books in 2010.

  22. Ted Nelson

    We need to have a poll on whether Crawford would have opted out, I don’t think there is anyway that would have happened….

    I have no idea, but like I said I’m 50/50. He’s in his prime, so it’s his last chance to get a long-term deal. He was on track for a career year.

  23. Owen

    Biggie – You got to allow me my night to celebrate the fact that Dlee is the starting Power Forward finally in New York.

    And 5-8 with 8 rebounds and a -3 is a pretty strong performance….

  24. Ted Nelson

    Missed most of the 1st Quarter and didn’t even know the Randolph deal went through. Now I will join everyone in their excitement, I thought everyone was elated about the Crawford deal…

  25. Gorky

    The Clippers aren’t missing Mobley or TT in today’s “revenge” game against Elton Brand.

    That’s cause we don’t want Z-Bo anywhere near this team.

  26. Ray

    Im sorry but the KnickerBloggger doesnt have enough cap room to do any polls right now due to the finanacial crisis.

  27. BiggieSmalls

    Lee is actually starting at center with Ill Will at PF

    But I’ll let your dream continue uninterruped

    Shocked he is 5-8..

  28. Owen

    Why would you be shocked? With his missed free throw that would put him exactly on his career ts%?

    Ted- Glad to have you happily in the fold.

  29. Z

    Wow– sorry to be watching a different game than the rest of you, but Vince Carter just beat his old team in OT with a reverse dunk alley-oop at the buzzer.

  30. jon abbey

    yeah, the end of that Toronto game was sick.

    I somehow haven’t had any interest in watching our boys tonight, although I’m taping it, but judging from the box, it looks like I made the right call.

  31. Owen

    Alright, turning this off. I don’t need a win today….

    We played badly today, but I don’t think it has anything to do with the absence of Craw and Randolph. We aren’t going to go 3-23 very often from three. But we will some games, just like we will shoot 45% some days. You are going to lose those games, can’t worry about it…

  32. beanmaxz

    Owen, 3-23 might be a lot more common the rest of the season when your center options are Rose, Harrington and Curry.

    It’s obviously all about the future, but this weird team of vagabonds representing the Knicks is going to inflict some serious pain on the diehards, and fans of basketball in general the rest of the season (barring a really dramatic move).

  33. Owen

    Honestly, I don’t think it matters who the center is. I have seen the Warriors nail so many threes without a legitimate center on the floor I no longer believe that cliche.

    Shooting threes is a high variance activity. You will have great games and shitty games as a team. You will have great seasons even, as a bunch of players outperform their career means. That was a big reason the Mavericks were so good on offense the year they were the best offensive team of all time.

    I should just say that if it continues, then I will start believing the cliche…

  34. Frank O.

    Seriously, did anyone really believe the Knicks were thinking about this game after a day like today?
    They probably all missed their naps because they were tracking all the back and forth on the trades, just like most of us.

  35. DNS

    I’d love to see them give Thomas some run at center. That’s where he excelled for the Suns — he was big enough to bang a bit, but fast enough to torture centers. While we let Curry rot (I think he’s bought out, not showed off), I think Thomas, Lee, Harrington and Jeffries will give us pretty interchangable “bigs” that are, actually, kinda a good fit for the system.

    The big loss for the seeason will not be Randolph, who wasn’t that good (his sht% was only okay and his rebounding came at the expense of others — he wasn’t getting too many boards that someone else in his spot won’t get). Not having Crawford will be a problem, as there won’t be anyone to run the pick and roll that makes up most of D’Antoni offense when you get in the half court. I think Robinson will see a lot of the ball and a lot of shots.

    Although we are clearly going to suck, one thing that will be good to see is that we have a lot of shooters — Thomas, Chandler, Robinson, QRich and Harrington all can shoot from deep.

    Also, I bet we end up resigning Harrington. Walsh loves him and he’s a good fit for the system….

  36. jon abbey

    absolutely no way IMO that Curry gets bought out, then there’s zero chance his money comes off the cap early. they haven’t even bought out Jerome James yet, and his salary doesn’t affect summer 2010 at all.

  37. Jcon

    Alan Hahn reports Marbury refused to play:

    It’s hardball now.

    After being buried for the first 11 games of the season, Friday’s trades gave Stephon Marbury the first opportunity to step on the court and play major minutes for the shorthanded Knicks against the Bucks in Milwaukee. It could have been a chance for Marbury to showcase himself for other teams and, perhaps, prove Mike D’Antoni wrong for benching him all this time.

    D’Antoni said he went to Marbury before the game and offered him the chance to play.

    “There’s 30-35 minutes out there and they’re yours if you want them,” the coach said.

    Marbury declined.

    “I was told they were moving in another direction and that I wasn’t in the plans,” Marbury said, “so that’s it.”

    Donnie Walsh, who had a terrific day as a GM, now has to put all of his focus on finally putting an end to the Starbury Saga.

    “I haven’t talked about Marbury basically because I don’t have anything really to say,” Walsh said in the conference call. “I haven’t thought about that part of it so I can’t answer that question right no

  38. Brian Cronin

    I really don’t blame Marbury for not wanting to play when he’d be right back to the bench as soon as Mobley shows up.

    If they told him that he might see minutes in upcoming games, then yeah, he should play.

    But if it’s, “We’re short tonight, do you want to play one game?” then I can’t knock the guy for not wanting to accept that generous offer. Especially as he hasn’t practiced in forever. He’d just embarrass himself out there, and when it’s likely just for one game, it seems kinda pointless.

  39. DS

    Owen, 3-23 might be a lot more common the rest of the season when your center options are Rose, Harrington and Curry.

    Jeffries will probably play center… which doesn’t exactly have me jumping out of my seat but I’m will to give it a look before I write it off at least.

  40. jon abbey

    I really don’t blame Marbury for not wanting to play when he’d be right back to the bench as soon as Mobley shows up.
    If they told him that he might see minutes in upcoming games, then yeah, he should play.
    But if it’s, “We’re short tonight, do you want to play one game?” then I can’t knock the guy for not wanting to accept that generous offer. Especially as he hasn’t practiced in forever. He’d just embarrass himself out there, and when it’s likely just for one game, it seems kinda pointless.

    I could live with that if this was a playground, but again, THIS GUY IS ONE OF THE THREE HIGHEST PAID PLAYERS IN THE LEAGUE. he gets paid a quarter million dollars per game at a time when the economy is spiralling down the toilet. you’d think he’d be able to stay in shape at least.

  41. danvt

    So, are we better now than we were yesterday. Will others take Crawford and Zbo’s shots and make a better % of them? Was last nights game the inevitable growing pains of the team handing the reins to new primary players? Will we be better than that? Will the new guys help? I assume only Harrington will get major minutes.

  42. Nick

    What’s the lineup — Duhon, Mobley, Chandler, Harrington and Lee? Does Richardson start for chandler? For Lee? For Mobley? THomas could start or see serious minutes at the 5.

  43. Nick

    Also, would it be possible to move Curry and one of our big expiring contracts — Rose maybe — to the Wizards, which if they gave us back a poo-poo platter of 2 year deals (haywood, daniels stuff like that) would put them under the cap next year, which would be valuable because no one else is, and would give them a low post scorer, which they don’t have. (Of course, this is premised on them being idiots, but I have no evidence to the contrary).

  44. Sly Williams

    “I really don’t blame Marbury for not wanting to play when he’d be right back to the bench as soon as Mobley shows up.”
    Me either! $20,840,625 for 30 minutes is not even $700,000 per minute! I’d be offended to step on the court for 1 game, when I wasn’t being paid even much more than $11,000 per second.

    Marbury just can’t seem to grasp that putting his own minutes or ego above the teams goals is what is keeping him on the bench and from being a great player. Too bad for us, I think he could fit in well with this system and help the Knicks win, if he wanted to.

  45. jon abbey

    actually, what’s keeping him from being a great player is age and stupidity (I mean on-court stupidity). I agree that he could potentially be a good bench contributor still, but people who think he’s still an All-Star level talent have very short memories.

  46. Gian Casimiro (SSoM)

    I wonder if Walsh can pull off a Curry and Rose for Brad Miller and Kenny Thomas trade. It worked straight up in the trade machine but I don’t know if the 7 mil expiring is enough for Sacramento. But coupled with Bobby Jackson’s contract, they’d have 14 mil expiring after the season.

    I know Brad Miller isn’t the shot blocking presence we need but he’s getting 8 boards and is a seven footer with a jumpshot. Both contracts end in two years, too.

    I don’t know, just a thought. This team needs a big man and I doubt Donnie is done dealing. I just couldn’t think of another center that was gettable. Though the addition of Kenny Thomas is essentially adding another Jerome James for two years.

    Edit:
    Actually this doesn’t make sense cause it would take Sacramento out of the 2010 running entirely.

  47. jon abbey

    well, if the clandestine deals rumored are really true (meaning that both LeBron and Bosh would like to come to NY), then I think Walsh can try to package Lee with Curry. if he can trade those two for deals that have expired by 2010, we could theoretically get LeBron, Bosh, plus Nash on a short-term deal to try to win a title.

  48. ess-dog

    yeah, I feel like Lee will have to be the sacrifical lamb here. I think Miami would be way into a Lee/Curry trade… but do they have to parts we need? We COULD even make a play for Marion, but who wouldn’t prefer Bosh or Amare?

  49. jon abbey

    also, if guys are willing to sacrifice a little money, the sky’s the limit. reunite Marion ($7 million), Stoudemire ($12 million) and Nash ($5 million), and add LeBron to the mix ($12 million).

    whoo hoo! dreams are free! :)

  50. Ted Nelson

    You get two bigtime stars and the Steve Nash’s of the world are going to take the veterans’ minimum for a shot at a ring and even just to play on a contender running D’Antoni’s system.

    I don’t know how I feel about sacrificing Lee to move Curry. I don’t think it’s really necessary, but what the Knicks do with Lee/Nate has to depend mostly on whether they feel they can resign them and get 2 2010 free agents. (As restricted free agents the Knicks can try for a sign-and-trade, and they can obviously wait for an offer sheet to not overbid. Teams might assume the Knicks will match their offer if the Knicks focus on bringing back one, but the Knicks could be in a vulnerable position if they try to keep both.)
    I think Curry can be moved by next season’s deadline without giving Lee. Once Lee’s off the table (one way or another) dealing Curry for value might actually get easier because teams can’t ask for Lee.

  51. Italian Stallion

    So, playoffs this year? Probably not?

    Honestly, without another move I think we may be one of the worst teams in the East (if not the THE worst). Even though I love the moves yesterday from a long term perspective, I think Harrington is a downgrade from Randolph and Mobley is a downgrade from Crawford. I’m not sure what Thomas brings, but it’s not much. The best case scenario is that these new players do better in D’Antoni’s system and it’s close to neutral. Given that we were only 6-6 because of the soft schedule, I can easily see us going on quite a negative run given the tougher opponents, new mix of players to try to fit in, and IMHO downgrade of talent.

  52. Z

    yeah, I feel like Lee will have to be the sacrifical lamb here. I think Miami would be way into a Lee/Curry trade… but do they have to parts we need? We COULD even make a play for Marion, but who wouldn’t prefer Bosh or Amare?

    If Donny’s in the mood to keep dealing, they may be able to swing a deal that looks like this:

    Heat get: Curry, Lee, Marbury, Rose

    Knicks get: Marion, Haslem, Blount, (Chalmers or a pick)

    Heat would save about $9 million in the deal. They also get the best player in the deal. (It also doesn’t completely screw them over for 2010 because they have the Bird Rights to the #2 FA in that class. I’m not sure what their long term planning is, but there have been reports showing an interest in Curry, correct?).

    As for the Knicks, we get to dump Curry and Marbury, which is cause to stay out all night and celebrate like we just traded Randolph and Collins or something…

  53. jon abbey

    “They also get the best player in the deal.”

    honestly not sure if you mean Lee or Marbury, but neither of those guys is anywhere near Marion.

  54. ess-dog

    Call me crazy, but I think Nate will be in the starting lineup, if not immediately, then a month or so down the line. Coach D. loves his energy, and Mobley’s on the downside… Even though he’s in better shape, I still don’t think Q can play the 2, unless it’s a specific matchup. I would start Duhon, Nate, Chandler, Lee, and Harrington and run the hell out of people. Q could sub at the 2 and 3, Mobley could sub at the 2, Nate could play some 1, and Jeffries could play some 4,5. Curry could get some minutes at the 5 I suppose, but I would prefer not to have to see Tammy Thomas out there… While the interior D is a huge weakness, it’s a pretty balanced albeit small lineup. I think it could win 35 games.

  55. TDM

    Don’t know if someone mentioned this already, but Newsday is reporting that there is a standing offer to Miami of Marbury for Marion. So far, Miami has not bitten on the offer. I’m not sure why Miami wouldn’t go for that deal. They get to test drive Marbury for the rest of the season and get more cap relief at the end of the season than Marion would provide.

  56. nj hoop

    When I hear LeBron, Bosh (or Stoudamire) and Nash, I just want to push the fast forward button and get to 2010 already.

  57. Z

    “They also get the best player in the deal.”
    honestly not sure if you mean Lee or Marbury, but neither of those guys is anywhere near Marion.

    True, but Miami seems to value Lee more than they value Marion. He’s on the downside, while Lee is presumably on he upside (though his stats this year show a decline). Marion is not is Miami’s long term plans (nor should he be in ours), and a guy like Lee is. Therefore, Miami gets the best player in the deal, even if he’s not really the best player, career wise.

    The deal I proposed is probably a bit dreamy, but the biggest reason that the two teams won’t make a deal is because they are conference rivals, not because of the players being exchanged.

  58. Ted Nelson

    I’m a bit surprised that Tim Thomas is not greeted as a conquering hero after the worship Jared Jeffries has been receiving. Tim Thomas is also a jump shooter who spreads the floor, should get a lot of people excited…
    (To clarify for anyone who’s not a regular, I don’t think Tim Thomas is a conquering hero–although he did play ok for D’Antoni in Phoenix–I just find it ironic that people who love jump shooters more than anything hate him…)

    “They also get the best player in the deal.”
    honestly not sure if you mean Lee or Marbury, but neither of those guys is anywhere near Marion.

    Given his defense I think Marion probably would be the best player in that deal; however, he’s been a low-usage/low-efficiency scorer in Miami this season which is exactly what he was in Miami last season. In fact, on his career his TS% is probably 70 percentage points lower w/o D’Antoni.
    Given their ages I think Lee is definitely “anywhere near him.” I don’t think I’d be for that deal, because no one else in the league is giving a Lee caliber player for Marion OR taking back Blount with him, let alone both. It’s pretty similar to giving up Crawford for Harrington when there’s no evidence anything close was on the table.
    (Random rant… I have no idea what other offers they had, but I don’t think I heard a single rumor that any team besides the Knicks was interested in Al Harrington–Harrington for Gerald Wallace was mentioned but evaporated pretty quickly. Maybe a contender offered garbage plus a late 1st so the Knicks had to offer Crawford or give up a pick. Maybe they just wanted to move Crawford rather than face the lose him for nothing/ be stuck with him forever conundrum. That’s definitely part of it, actually, I just think they could have gotten a better long-term deal.)

    So, playoffs this year? Probably not?

    Honestly, without another move I think we may be one of the worst teams in the East (if not the THE worst). Even though I love the moves yesterday from a long term perspective, I think Harrington is a downgrade from Randolph and Mobley is a downgrade from Crawford. I’m not sure what Thomas brings, but it’s not much. The best case scenario is that these new players do better in D’Antoni’s system and it’s close to neutral. Given that we were only 6-6 because of the soft schedule, I can easily see us going on quite a negative run given the tougher opponents, new mix of players to try to fit in, and IMHO downgrade of talent.

    The East is surprisingly deep with decent teams, and I agree that the Knicks could be one of the worst or THE worst (could have been one of the worst regardless of the trades, as well) although Washington’s making it very hard to compete and Larry Brown doesn’t seem to have re-found what he lost in NY thus far.

    I don’t know that Harrington is a downgrade compared to Randolph (I’m very tempted to call him an upgrade), but Crawford should be missed (because Mobley looks like he’s completely done). By directly replacing Crawford and Randolph with equal or better players (Robinson and Lee) and replacing Robinson and Lee with 3 potentially capable rotation players (Harrinton, Thomas, Mobley) plus the return of Jeffries, I don’t know that the Knicks’ rotation is necessarily worse off than it would have been. Of course, I’m sure Harrington gets 40 mpg, and whether he shoots the way he did last season (pretty well) or on his career (poorly) may determine the Knicks’ success to a large degree.

    Now that they’ve moved the only active players they needed to, I’m not sure I mind the Knicks openly tanking, anyway. On the other hand, maybe they can get Curry and Jeffries is action and work the Randolph magic.

  59. Z

    “I think Walsh can try to package Lee with Curry. if he can trade those two for deals that have expired by 2010…”

    I agree with the thinking here, especially in the wake of yesterday’s purging. But with hindsight, it would be a bitter pill to swallow. People on this site seem more willing to trade Lee since last summer, but his value was higher then. Last June his agent killed a deal to Memphis that would have ultimately sent O.J. Mayo to the Knicks. It would be too bad if a few months later all he returned in a trade was Eddy Curry’s empty locker…

  60. jon abbey

    Ted, if NY was 100% sure that Crawford would opt out, I’m sure they would have been happy to just let him go. he was showing bad signs in recent games of entirely disappearing for long stretches, though, many more of those and I’m not sure GS would have still been interested.

    ess-dog, I don’t see how Nate can guard opposing 2 guards as a starter, he seems like an ideal sixth man gunner to me.

  61. jon abbey

    Don’t know if someone mentioned this already, but Newsday is reporting that there is a standing offer to Miami of Marbury for Marion. So far, Miami has not bitten on the offer. I’m not sure why Miami wouldn’t go for that deal. They get to test drive Marbury for the rest of the season and get more cap relief at the end of the season than Marion would provide.

    no, it’s the same cap relief, both of their salaries are expiring. just because Marbury makes more than Marion doesn’t change Miami’s other salary obligations for next year.

  62. ess-dog

    “ess-dog, I don’t see how Nate can guard opposing 2 guards as a starter, he seems like an ideal sixth man gunner to me.”

    Despite his height, he is better defensively than Crawford at a younger age. I just think a Duhon/Mobley backcourt will not provide enough offense. Is there any reason that Nate can’t play 40 minutes a game the way Craw did last year?

  63. GiantsKnickFan420

    anyone who has any sympathy towards steph is nuts. The dude quit. Again. doesnt matter what he does or doesnt do, hes a loser and will always be. We’re done there. Too bad dolan or walsh dont wanna swallow that contract. Right now with all the moves mad yesterday, they are better served jus getting rid of him right now. I doubt he won over any new suitors either.
    I was a bit torn becuase jamal was very professional, but clearly a one dimensional player. Mobley atleast puts forth solid effort on the defensive end.
    I was a bit bothered that nate let the trade affect his game, he jus looked completely flat out there last nite, i understand they were close but its a dog eat dog world and nate should realize this means a bigger responsibility and more minutes out there since atleast jamal was a minutes eater…
    Some say in the short term we may suffer but i dont agree, it may take some time now to readjust but i think we got 3 capable players for 2. Mardy wasnt making anything special happen, now atleast we got back 2 players with some size in harrington and thomas.

  64. Ted Nelson

    Ted, if NY was 100% sure that Crawford would opt out, I’m sure they would have been happy to just let him go. he was showing bad signs in recent games of entirely disappearing for long stretches, though, many more of those and I’m not sure GS would have still been interested.

    If they were 100% sure he would opt out (and presumably didn’t want to resign him) then I think trading him for a 2 season deal was the right thing to do. I would have traded him for an expiring contract and even a late 1st rounder or 2nd rounder over Harrington, personally, only because you take a shot at getting a long-term piece. Harrington should be an adequate rotation player for the next 2 seasons, so I’m not too upset about the deal… just think they could have done better.

    Considering that Crawford might not have opted out I can definitely understand why you trade him in a lateral deal, especially one that works well with the Randolph deal. I just stlll think an expiring contract and draft pick would have been a better deal. Nothing against Harrington, who I look forward to rooting for for the next 2 seasons.

    I’m not against Walsh’s philosophy of winning now while keeping an eye on winning big later, I just thought Crawford was one of his most tradable assets (and best players) and would have loved to see him dealt this past offseason when he was coming off a 20 ppg season. Basically I’m nitpicking.

  65. Ted Nelson

    As far as disappearing for stretches, he’s been in the league 8 full seasons… I don’t think GS (or any other team) failed to realize how inconsistent he’s always been. As a 6th man/5th starter you can choose to keep in when he’s playing (scoring/distributing) well or take out in favor of a better starter/equivalent backup when he’s now, is where I think he’s got value.

  66. Ben R

    Ted – I am in total agreement about the Crawford trade, Harrington is not a bad player but I would have liked to see at least one potential long term piece in these two trades. I would rather have scrub with one/two year contract plus late first or ok prospect over Harrington, but I am still satisfied with the trades and look forward to a Knicks team without Randolph.

    As for Harrington, Mobley and Thomas the one positive about all three players is they have shown the ability to shoot the 3 better than anyone currently on the Knicks, all three have had multiple better than 40% from the 3pt line seasons. That could really help since D’Antoni’s offense creates so many open looks from downtown. Also I think Mobley is a solid defender and can see a Raja Bell kind of role. Harrington is also a good defender and Thomas is no worse than Randolph. So our defense should improve, and our shooting should improve. My big worry is that Lee is the the only player on the whole roster who is even average at rebounding from the 4 or 5. So I see us getting killed on the glass.

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