Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Saturday, October 25, 2014

2008 Game Thread: Knicks vs. Hornets

Feel free to use this space to discuss what will almost certainly be the Knicks’ 42nd loss of the season (Really? Malik Rose is going to start over David Lee? Really?). Or, if you prefer, you can use it discuss whether Lebron James will be robbed of the MVP this season.

83 comments on “2008 Game Thread: Knicks vs. Hornets

  1. Ken "The Animal" Bannister

    So he starts Malik Rose instead of Lee.

    I think Isiah would start me at PF before he’d start Lee.

  2. TDM

    There are at least 4 players that should start before Malik — Lee, Balkman, Morris, Jeffries. At least, he put Chandler in during Q1.

  3. Greene

    Kobe will win MVP this year because he has never won before even though I also believe that Lebron is more valuable to his team

  4. TDM

    Who would you rather take the last shot in the big game? Kobe or LBJ? For me, Kobe is the clear choice.

  5. Greene

    This what Isiah came up with for the second team:
    Jones, Collins, Jeffries, Chandler, Lee. And the first play he scripted was a post up for JJ. Because JJ has always been strong with his back to basket. He has great touch.

  6. Ken "The Animal" Bannister

    Frightening as it may seem, I think lee is also the best OFFENSIVE player on the floor right now. And Jeffries really looks like a giraffe on roller skates when he drives the lane

  7. TDM

    Who was it that said they’d like to see more play from Collins? I think he’s averaging a TO per minute. Even Malik has 3 assists. Could he be the Knicks pg of the future?

  8. Ken "The Animal" Bannister

    Hey Isiah,

    Maybe Balkman might be more effective than Jefferies at this juncture. Just a thought.

    I think everyone is lighting a candle for Derrick Rose

  9. Artie

    wow..Chandler back in for Nate with 1:30 to go. We’re crumbling again. No interior D….NO is driving and dunking.

  10. jon abbey

    hilarious how nonexistent our half-court “execution” is at the end of close games. just abused at the end in every way, what a loser Isiah is.

  11. Artie

    shot selection is unbelievable…its a shame they ended up booing Chandler….he didnt deserve that.

  12. Roshi

    They were rightfully booing Nate Robinson being taken out…which of course led to the inevitable four plays in a row of Jamal jacking up awful shots.

    Can someone explain why Balkman played 0 minutes? Is he injured?

  13. stephon

    bring jared jordan back…get rid of everyone except crawford, lee, robinson, balkman….lose every game and draft derrick rose….randolph sucks, curry’s fat….malik rose (enough said)

  14. Artie

    Yea..but Chandler finally gets some minutes but because Isaih is a freakin idiot, works his enchsubstitutions to pull Nate at crunch time and let Wilson hear boos.

    Renaldo looked ok on the bench from what little I saw. Maybe Isaih has finally conceded its time to see the young guys, and Renaldo is his whipping boy.

  15. Ray

    Shoot I didnt even watch the game but I knew the result. There will be no pride in adding additional wins it only darkens the future to draft any higher than 1-3. Ill take Mayo because we wont get Rose.

  16. matty

    well i am finally happy to see that isiah read my post
    thank you for playing chandler and morris they looked good. imagine the possibilitys if you never took on curry. and we all know isiahs to much of a proud man to admit curry is just a mistake. I swear on anything i could sub in and sub out better than isiah
    start game
    nate, jamal, chandler, lee, randolph
    my fav 5

  17. villainx

    From Yahoo Sport’s recap:

    Paul made two of those buckets himself and found Chandler for an alley-oop dunk on the other, part of the Hornets’ 10-0 run to close the game.

    “Tyson is one of the most athletic centers in the league,” Paul said. “Nate Robinson was talking to me out there on the court and he was like, ‘Wish I had a big guy who could go up to the rim like that.’”

    Whee.

  18. Brian Cronin

    That was Chris Sheridan, not Hollinger.

    And it was a fairly asinine piece. He may turn out to be correct, but if so, it certainly wasn’t because he put any real thought into it.

    That said, hopefully, he is correct!

  19. Brian Cronin

    By the by, speaking of the Chandler bit, I think that was emblematic of the overpraising point guards get.

    When the play happened, all Breen could talk about was how good of a pass it was, while the play happened more because of Chandler’s ability (as Robinson noted) to get to the rim.

    That’s not to say that Paul should not be praised – he is a great passer, and that was a great pass – but too often, I think the efforts of the pass receiver are under-rewarded, relative to the rewards handed out to the passer.

    I think it was Hollinger who argued (and I agree with him) that there are three parts to an assist-

    1. The scorer getting to the right spot
    2. The passer getting the pass to the scorer in that spot
    3. The scorer converting that pass into a basket

    Of those three things, the scorer is responsible for two of them, and yet the passer usually gets all the credit.

  20. Ess-dog

    Dwight Howard thinks Morris is good enough to start in this league: That’s good enough for me.
    For chrissakes Zeke, give him 20 solid minutes, see what he can do! He was so smug about the way he flew in under the radar and grabbed him after the NCAA tourney, and now? He never plays him! I just don’t get it. Especially since we have a serious defensive problem with our big men. Sure if Morris was on the Spurs, let him sit and learn behind Duncan, but c’mon!
    This team is killing me. It’s so boring and predictable, although it has been nice having Randolph out. Is it really that hard Isiah? Start Lee at PF and Morris at Center. Why the F___ not? WHY WHY WHY WHY? God forbid we lose another game…
    But the real problem is that noone trusts Zeke… who would? That’s why the players can’t get behind him at the end of games and end up blowing it every time. Zeke and Dolan empirically run the Knick like East Germany in ’68. Gag orders and freeze outs. Look how they played Steph against Larry Brown and froze Larry out, only now for Steph to be frozen out himself after “crossing the line.” He should have known that if they’ll do it to him, they could do it to you. Good thing it’s only basketball and not our government (ahem.)
    That being said, I’ve got 2 tickets to the Cavs game; sorry J. Abbey, but I’ve got to see Lebron at least once this year.
    Here’s to spring training!

  21. John

    I just read Sheridan’s article about this game being Isiah’s last. His point about Dolan having all his boys next to him seems as if they are planning a way to spin this awful situation in MSG’s favor.

    If Dolan comes out and says, “This was my fault and I’m trying to right the ship, with that said, Isiah and the Knicks are parting ways as the first step,” I think that would be enough for me….for now…..

    It’s what he does afterwards that will make this statement believable. MSG needs to bring legitamacy back to this franchise and he’s going to need to suck up some pride and $$$’s.

    It’s seems as if the process has started.

  22. John

    I just read Sheridan’s article about this game being Isiah’s last. His point about Dolan having all his boys next to him seems as if they are planning a way to spin this awful situation in MSG’s favor.

    If Dolan comes out and says, “This was my fault and I’m trying to right the ship, with that said, Isiah and the Knicks are parting ways as the first step,” I think that would be enough for me….for now…..

    It’s what he does afterwards that will make this statement believable. MSG needs to bring legitamacy back to this franchise and he’s going to need to suck up some pride and $$$’s.

    It’s seems as if the process has started.

  23. retropkid

    doubt this is Zeke’s last game…Dolan will continue to make him earn his combat pay…the rest of us earn fatigue…

  24. John

    I don’t think it’s his last game either. For this 4 game homestand, you’re going to see how bad the Knicks are against some pretty good teams. If a firing is going to happen, it has to come at the end of this homestand OR the end of the season.

    Why not get rid of him now when you know you’re totally out of the playoffs? Get Herb to play the youngsters until the end of the season, then hire a Colangelo type executive?

  25. Ricky

    “Why not get rid of him now when you know you’re totally out of the playoffs? Get Herb to play the youngsters until the end of the season, then hire a Colangelo type executive?”

    I think every Knicks fan has been asking this question the last 3 years.

  26. Roshi

    That Sheridan thing peaked my interest until I actually read it, and realized that he was just blowing smoke up our asses. Not a single one of his points was evidence that Isiah is being fired. In fact, I think he suggested that Isiah will be fired because Dolan needs to save face….since when does Dolan give a crap about his public image? Reason #4 was the Knicks are really bad. Wow, Sheridan, what a novel argument. What a frickin tease.

  27. Brian Cronin

    That Sheridan thing peaked my interest until I actually read it, and realized that he was just blowing smoke up our asses. Not a single one of his points was evidence that Isiah is being fired. In fact, I think he suggested that Isiah will be fired because Dolan needs to save face….since when does Dolan give a crap about his public image? Reason #4 was the Knicks are really bad. Wow, Sheridan, what a novel argument. What a frickin tease.

    Yep. Like I said, total asinine piece.

    My interest was piqued for a sec when someone mentioned it was Hollinger as, well:

    A. Hollinger usually does not break stories, so if he was breaking a story, then it was probably true

    and

    B. Hollinger is a lot less likely to write an article built entirely on specious speculation.

  28. DS

    Sheridan wrote yet another column, this afternoon, about Isiah ducking Marbury questions. Chris is stretching a media relations tactic into speculation.

    I think in a lot of cases, there is a correlation between public/media outcry and coaches/GM’s getting fired or players being traded and if Isiah’s was one of those cases I wouldn’t complain. However (as we’ve discussed ad naseum) no public outcries nor displays of ineptitude on Isiah’s part seem to tip the scales enough for Jimmy Dolan to fire him. Therefore, it seems Sheridan is just wasting our time.

  29. Brian Cronin

    By the by, speaking of Hollinger, I was a bit put off by a recent piece he wrote to back up his assertion that the Raptors are a force in the East.

    Here’s the quote:

    The Raptors haven’t put together an impressive win streak, so they have slipped past everyone’s attention — the Raptors are a solid but hardly awe-inspiring 10-6 in their past 16 games.

    But look closer and you’ll see what an impressive stretch it’s been. Five of the six losses were by five points or less, while eight of the 10 wins were by 17 or more; one of the two that wasn’t was a 114-112 win in Boston that was the best shooting display a team has put on all season.

    Let’s put it more simply: The Raps aren’t beating people, they’re killing them. Toronto topped Milwaukee by 31, Washington by 39, Miami by 32, Minnesota by 23 and 22, New Jersey by 18, Orlando by 17, and New York by 23. In a 16-game stretch, half their games were blowout wins.

    Sum it up and you’ll see in that modest-looking 16-game stretch the Raptors are outscoring opponents by an impressive 10 points per game.

    While it is certainly better to beat bad teams by a lot than a little, I don’t think it is as impressive as Hollinger makes it out to be.

    What say you folks?

  30. John

    Brian,

    No one cares about the Raptors. Hollinger/Sheridan can’t hold Chad Ford’s jock

  31. Adam W

    I was at the game last night, and it’s clear that the tank is on. It’s much more subtle than was going on with teams last year because of the Oden lottery pick, but there’s no other way to explain what Isiah was doing with the lineups yesterday, taking out key components at the most inopportune time.

    In the 2nd quarter, both teams were playing chicken with their B and C squads. Lee was the biggest “name” player on the floor for either team for almost 4 solid minutes.

    Teams know that they can rest their starters for basically the entire second quarter and still win the game. We saw this with the Spurs game a couple of weeks ago. All Pops’ starters sit, the Knicks go up 18, then the Spurs come back refreshed and win the game (albeit on a fantastic tying 3 at the buzzer). Seems like Isiah figured this out, so he takes his starters out now too and dares the opposition’s bench to take on his semi-decent bench.

  32. Dave

    Zeke has been a terrible coach and even worse as a GM but we have to stop letting the true culprit off the hook.

    James Dolan is the one responsible for the mess that stinks up the garden. He is holding the knicks down by keeping Thomas around. He is the one who should be taking the heat from the fans/media.

    Fans need to start boycotting games- that is the only way to reach Dolan.

    Seven straight losing seasons.

  33. Patrick

    I know everyone hates Isaiah… but… What is Isaiah Thomas doing? What is he trying to prove? Why are we playing Chandler and Morris in the fourth quarter of a close game? Is he trying to prove to us that they’re good? Is he trying to prove that to the rest of the league? Is he trying to say: We’re tanking now for a draft pick? Why? I don’t understand him.

    The funny thing is… I understand Dolan completely. Here is a guy, who has never achieved anything on his own. He has grown frustrated by his inability to be considered as valued as his father. So, he has done, what in his mind, will equal him to his father… he has become more well-known. He has contempt for Knick fans, the media, and himself. He does not want or pursue success. He wants to be known. That is the rationale behind his continued support of Thomas. Which will continue as long as it makes him famous. In his mind he is already despised by himself… so what can the fans and media do? People can be motivated by spite, where little else motivat

    Thomas on the other hand… I don’t get. Sometimes I feel like he is afraid to really try because of a fear of failure. If he inserts a degree of difficulty he can always say he wasn’t really trying. The excuses he constantly dream up seem to support this idea. But then, how was he so successful at basketball? The NBA is very competitive. You can not succeed being self destructive. Where did this guy come from? Other failures (CBA/Pacers)? Possibly. He has taken an apporach here which seems to say… NOT that I will do a GOOD job, but instead, I WILL NOT be blamed for a BAD job. Or is it something? Has he directed his competitive nature towards the media rather than against the other teams? Is that what made him come to NY? Is that what made him hire/fire Larry Brown?

    Look, I don’t know. But, it’s fascinating.

    I am done though. God, I love the Knicks. So many great memories. But if/when they do move to brooklyn… I’m a Nets fan.

  34. flitzy

    General topic—

    Ever hear the saying when you win or lose by 6 points or less, its the coach….When its 6 or more its the players? I always believed it and always keep it in mind…With this Knicks teams the saying is if you get the sh*t beat out of u on a nightly basis, everyhting is wrong.

  35. Patrick

    Hey flitzy…

    Lemme give you this hypo:

    It’s a three point game entering the 4th quarter. The coach plays a guy at center who has not been in a game all season. He complements him with Mardy Collins, Fred Jones and Wilson Chandler… all at the same time. Who’s fault is that?

  36. Mike K. (KnickerBlogger)

    Regarding Hollinger/Raps point differential is definitely a statistical key. Year to year point differential does a better job as predictor for wins that wins do. But looking at that post, it looks like there was only one good team that Toronto crushed (Orlando). So I think point differential in a small sample like that needs to be taken with a grain of salt.

    Although on the other hand you can only play who’s on your schedule, so it’s a good sign that the Raps are crushing teams they’re suppose to crush.

  37. Ess-dog

    I feel like I understand Isaiah: he is the ultimate toadie. He pinpoints who butters his bread and stays in that person’s good graces by any means necessary. If that means scapegoating the coach, the point guard, whoever, he’ll do it. His toadying started in college with Bobby Knight. You could even call him Machiavellian except he never finally achieves success (as a coach that is.)

  38. T-Mart

    With regard to the mind-numbing lack of play for Chandler and Morris, I’ve been dumbfounded for months. I originally thought there was some kind of exotic tanking scheme to make it appear we were really making our best effort, a scheme necessary because of some kind of back-room draft policy the NBA has which penalizes blatant tankers like the Celtics last season, which we are not privy to. But I think the true reason is actually way more obvious then any of us have thought of for the simple fact that we have all once again absurdly over-estimated the intellectual capacity of both Dolan and Isiah.
    Isiah must have gotten Dolan to buy into this silly miraculous Celtics like turn-around all season simply to buy time, subsequent to the early seasons disasterous start following the Marbury shanangans. In the process he painted himself into a corner, because the minute he starts giving Morris and Chandler big minutes he would be waving a white flag contrary to the plan he has somehow brainwashed Dolan with. But now that it is clear that the season is lost and there is really no way we will make the playoffs, he FINALLY has inserted Morris and Chandler. Could it be this simple???

  39. Brian Cronin

    Regarding Hollinger/Raps point differential is definitely a statistical key. Year to year point differential does a better job as predictor for wins that wins do. But looking at that post, it looks like there was only one good team that Toronto crushed (Orlando). So I think point differential in a small sample like that needs to be taken with a grain of salt.

    Although on the other hand you can only play who’s on your schedule, so it’s a good sign that the Raps are crushing teams they’re suppose to crush.

    Yeah, that was my feeling exactly, Mike.

    Is it a good thing they’re beating the bad teams by a lot?

    Sure.

    But I don’t see how a stretch of beating up a bunch of mostly bad teams (with a loss to the Knicks mixed in there) is a reason to be bullish on the Raptors, and yet that’s how Hollinger presented it.

  40. Spider Cider

    As an avid Raptors fan who has watched every game this year, I certainly think it’s a stretch to Toronto a force, especially on the defensive end. They do a good job defending most teams due to Sam Mitchell having implemented a sound defensive system, but when they go up against teams with elite perimeter scorers the Raps are totally helpless. They simply do not have players capable of guarding the LeBron’s and Kobe’s, or even the second-tier stars such as Caron Butler (or even Jamal Crawford, as I’m sure you Knicks fans can recall), and they lack the shot-blockers to discourage penetration from those players. Additionally, their roster and playing style is conducive to blowing out crappy teams, inasmuch as they lose very little offensively when going to their bench, which makes it a lot easier for their second unit to extend leads in garbage time when both teams are playing their bench. The only other team in the top 5 of the East that I can see Toronto beating in the playoffs is Orlando, because the Magic don’t really have anyone who can kill you off the dribble (Lewis and Turkey-glue are more shooters than slashers), and as much as no one on Toronto can guard Howard, no one on Orlando can guard Bosh.

  41. Ess-dog

    I can’t believe we’ve sunk to analyzing the Raptors!
    ESPN has the Knicks at the 5th spot taking Bayless ahead of OJ Mayo… I like Bayless, but I think Rose is the only real high-quality point in the draft (for now.) If we drop out of the top 2 picks, I would look really hard at trading our pick and a player (Randolph) for either Elton Brand or Arenas.
    Thoughts?

  42. Thomas B.

    Ess-dog,

    If we cant get into the top two I am all for taking the best defensive big man available. I would be okay with DeAndre Jordan, or even Hasheem Thabeet. I think Jordan has the skill set to play at Andrew Buynum’s level. I like that Italian player Gallanari(sp?) but do we really need a fourth swingman? If we can’t get Jordan or Lopez, I would not mind trading down for a 2 for 1. I like DJ Augustine, so trade down for him and another player. Send the 5th pick to NJ for their two picks, take Augustine and Thompson.

  43. john r

    you should close this blog down till next year. i think its ridiculous that you are trying to analyze who thomas started, lee, rose, etc. everything is now irrelevant. season is done. wrap up tome.

  44. Capt. Merlin

    where’s the fun in that?

    blogs are always more fun–and needed–when the team is morbidly defective

  45. Ess-dog

    Thomas,
    I like Jordan too, but he’s being predicted out of our reach. So I guess you could amend that we trade if we’re out of the top 3. I like the idea of starting Brand with Lee. If we could get that done, I’d be for it. Of course it’s a risk because of the injury. And also Isiah would never get something like that done. We really have to move Zach so Lee can play, the move to get him still kills me! Curry can rot on the bench for all I care but Zach is a problem. I swear to god I would trade him and Jeffries for Nene and a draft pick right now. At least we’d clear some bodies and maybe Nene would be insured unlike Curry. Then we could get a big man with the first pick and a point guard later with Denver’s pick. I think Denver would do that. Maybe. God we suck.

  46. Tony

    The next true culprits are the fans that go to games – even if they get them for free.

  47. jon abbey

    free tickets are cool, as long as you don’t spend any money there. if you yell some insulting yet funny things on top of that, you’re one of the good guys in my book.

    but yeah, people really need to stop paying for tickets, I’ve been preaching that here already but it can’t be said enough.

  48. JEG

    Apropos of nothing, but I arrived at this website from the yahoo boards and have to express my admiration. The idiocy shown on those boards beggars description, but here…my god, people intelligently discussing Basketball?!?

    Always thought Knicks fans were the best fans of any sport. I remember a game in either 92 or 93 when Mark Price scored 20 points in the fourth quarter and actually got applause from Knicks fans.

    Anyway, I agree, only a genius like Isiah Thomas would start Malik Rose over David Lee, and I’m a Spurs fan who still kind of likes Malik.

  49. Kevin

    Guys,

    I gonna be depressed for a week, the worst possible news I can think of was in a NYT article. Lee and Nate can be a restricted free agent this year and unrestricted next year. What if they want to leave?

    The article also perpetuates the fiction that the Knicks will have cap space to sign a free agent (the James, Bosh, Wade class). I don’t see it, assuming the cap goes up $4 MM per year (the average increase over the last 3 years)the cap will be $68MM for 2010/11 season. The Knicks have four guys under the last year of a contract (Randolph ($17), Curry ($11), Crawford ($10) and Jeffries (7) for $45 MM) leaving $23 MM for 8 spots. 2 of which will be taken by the 08 and 09 draft picks (~$4 MM) Qualifying offer for Balkman is $3 MM, So lets keep him at that number so it $16 MM for five spots. So if you sign Lee and Nate for a total of $12 MM (which seems low). You have $4 MM left and only 9 players under contract. The good news is no money will need to be spent on a 2010 first round pick as that will be sent to Utah (last part of the Marbury deal). The only hope to get one of the prizes as a free agent is if D-Wade’s shoulder collapses, and his arm falls off. Bet you Isiah could get a one-armed Wade to agree to less than the MLE )of course the 12-year deal may come back to haunt the team.

    Granted its a long ways off who know what talent the Knicks may have accumulated, but the Knicks wont have significant if any cap space and will have to hope that Cleveland will take expiring contracts, some talent, picks and a salary dump to get something for LeBron in a sign and trade. Anyone want to bet on the Knicks having enough talent left to interest LeBron.

  50. Nick

    Does it really seem likely that the lure of NYC and potential bonus advertising income will overwhelm coming to a franchise that is and has been the league laughingstock for several years? If the current management stays in place why would anyone concerned about basketball as opposed to the allure of $$$ or NYC want to come here, more importantly, why wouldn’t Lee hightail it out of here first chance he gets?

  51. Roshi

    It must be great to be a Spurs fan. The worst thing Spurs fans can complain about are the price of hotdogs at the stadium. You just can’t run a franchise better than they do. Everything kind of works itself out when you draft a high-character superstar, pair him with a sensible coach, and surround him with veterans who know their role and great european prospects discretely taken late in the draft. Buford/Popovich are fishing with dynamite, while Dolan/Isiah crashed on the way to the bait shop.

  52. Thomas B.

    Ess-Dog,

    I like Brand. Question is how do we get him? I don’t like trading the 5th pick for Brand straight up. Why trade a lottery pick for a forward coming off a knee injury (McDyess)?

    Now I would not mind sending Marbury’s expiring contract, the 5th pick, and Balkman to the Clips for Brand, Mags, and the Clips’ pick (projected 6th). Clips get way under the cap next year, they move up a pick and they move a guy who hates it there. Knicks get a forward that rebounds, plays D and is a force in the box. Mags is what Q-Rich was (minus the d). Then you take the best point available at six.

    Yes, we really need to move Randolph. It not that I think he is bad, I just like Lee alot more.
    ——–
    Even though they lost the last two games, the Knicks looked better playing without Randolph. Curry was much more energetic. The only problem was that with Randolph gone and Robinson on the bench (still don’t understand that move) the Knicks had no way to score in the final 2 minutes of the Hornets game. But I thought the half court sets looked a bit better without Randolph holding the ball for 8 seconds.

    Curry needs to be more aggressive in the post. Curry seems to hesitant and Randolph far too reckless. Curry will throw the ball back out if he does not have optimal scoring position. Conversely, Randolph will force a number of bad shots when he should just pass.

  53. T-MART

    Fox Sports’ current power ranking blurb for the Knicks lol:

    (18-42) Isiah should be proud. Through shrewd trades, astute free-agent signings, fearless use of cap space and – lest we forget – pure coaching genius, he’s put together a team that can be horrible for many years to come.

  54. Ray

    I think Brand is a beast. The thing is he may be damaged good. I dont want another McDyess situation. That was the beginning of our problems. Camby would still be here if it werent for McDyess. If there was a way to get and extra pick in this draft so that we could get a PG and maybe Thabett then that would be a great situation. Id still take Mayo over Bayless because Mayo has better D than Bayless and a higher upside. He can also play the 1 and 2. It gives us more versatility. Hes going to score in the NBA as well and improve every year. The team that gets him is going to be very fortunate. I just hope its us. This draft is so key for us because it might determine what may happen for the Knicks in the next couple of years. Hopefully Zeke is gone and we get someone in here that can make the right moves to get us back on track. We have plenty of talent to move and in the end even if we lose someone as precious to us as D. Lee if we win and make the playoff and so on we wont even care.

  55. Capt. Merlin

    Lee and Nate can’t become RFA’s until NEXT summer, and Unrestricted after–not RFAs this summer

  56. matty

    whats wrong with randolph . i like him he has heart. he even tries to play defense. he has all the skills just needs the right direction. cury is horrible everytime he is on the court we are down by atleast 8. he lacks all the intangebles needed. even chadler can box out properly and how much has he played. randolph can be anything he wants to be because he has all the skills minus some ups. lee is great but he is not a starter till he develops that shot. and im sure if he had it zeke would but him in.
    isiah’s gonna be here for 2 more yrs im tellin you.
    and i guarentee we make the playoffs next year guarenteed

  57. David Crockett

    Ever-searching for novel ways of thinking about the catastrophe that has become these Knicks, a question. Has there ever been a better case of “escalating commitment bias” than this team?

    As for today’s Times piece, it seems needlessly alarmist. The team will extend those two players. They should do better with the Knicks than any other team. Obviously, either could be moved in a deal but both could play for almost whoever is the next coach. Some things make too much sense not to happen, even for the Knicks.

  58. jon abbey

    we still have a couple of years before we become the Clippers, where every potential free agent leaves as soon as possible. that day is getting closer, though.

  59. T-Mart

    What is the rationale of “lifting” the Marbury ban??? What was the point of even having one to begin with. Was that really just a temporary axe Isiah had to grind?

  60. Thomas B.

    David,

    I admit I had to get an encyclopedia for that one.

    Escalation of commitment bias is the phenomenon where people increase their investment in a decision despite new evidence suggesting that the decision was probably wrong (known informally as “throwing good money after bad”).

    The term is also used to describe poor decision-making in business, government, information systems in general, software project management in particular, politics, and gambling.

    So yes, I think that is a great way to describe the current situation with the Knicks.

  61. Thomas B.

    I think Isiah is trying to get fired. I’m just waiting for him to come out of retirement and insert himself as starting point. I wonder if he would still wear the little shorts, that would be funny.

  62. T-Mart

    Hahaha, he would totally go with the little shorts. Speaking of the devil, I was thinking of some hypotheticals which are clearly absurd on the surface but then if you think about it, I honestly believe the team would actually do better the rest of the season with a slightly better winning % then the first 2/3 of the season. Here it goes:

    You pay a 41-yearold Patrick Ewing to come out of retirement and Isiah follows suit. We play the rest of the season with your starting 5 as:

    1- Isiah Thomas
    2- Jamal Crawford
    3- Renaldo Balkman
    4- David Lee
    5- Patrick Ewing

    Clyde Drexler almost came out of retirement 2 seasons ago at 43 and was getting serious attention from teams as a 20 minutes a game guy. Is there anyone on this website who thinks this lineup, even with a 45 yearold Isiah Thomas and a 41 yearold Patrick Ewing wouldnt be able to do better then .300????

  63. Johnny Twisto

    Ewing looks a little thick these days. Not so bad that he couldn’t work himself into shape by October, but for the end of this season he might be a bit sluggish. Still, I’m sure he’d defend the middle better than anyone we have.

  64. Dave Posess

    I have been a loyal Knick fan for years. The Knicks are a disaster. Aside from David Lee, Crawford, and, perhaps, Nate Robinson, the whole team should be traded. Start with Isaiah, who has absolutely destroyed this team and made it one of the laughing stocks of the league. What do we need? Start with someone who plays defense, rebounds, and blocks shots – HELLO MARCUS CAMBY!!! Traded him for who? Antonio McDyess? And he did what for us?

    Brought in a fat, lazy, one dimensional piece of crap in Eddie Curry, and then complemented his game by bringing in Zach Randolph? Had a chance to draft yet another ideal “piece” of the necessary puzzle in Ron Artest…and who did we take? Nene? Frederick Weiss?

    Trade the whole team…bring in guys who give a damn…after watching them choke yet again and allow Lebron to destroy them…Go Yanks!!!!

  65. Jobba

    Free tickets are no good either. How many people go to games with their kids and never spend any money? Nobody is going to hear anything you yell out. All you’re doing is filling up an empty seat so it looks good for TV and their advertisers.

    No true diehard Knicks fan can support this garbage assembled by Isiah Thomas. All those idiots at the Garden lately are not even basketball fans I bet. They are idiots that got free tickets from REAL fans who don’t even want to go anymore.

    Personally, I will NEVER EVER attend a game at the Garden until Isiah and the majority of this losers are gone. You can give me free front row tickets and I would pass. I refuse to waste my time supporting a racist, piece of garbage coach who destroyed my favorite team by acquiring heartless losers who in the end do not care.

    And if any of you still attend games and call yourself Knick fans, all of you are phony and a disgrace! How dare you complain about the team and still attend the Garden? It makes no sense!!

    And no Isiah, I do not enjoy this basketball. I could care less if you team went on to win 10 in a row. I want you out of this team immediately!! 50 years of pride, respect, dignity was destroyed the minute your phony lying sexual harrassing racist butt took over! I hope Isiah dies.

    Thank you.

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