Have at it…
First! (Okay, that is sort of cheating.)
Atlanta takes Conley, Jr. and Acie Law, IV. They picked Law for someone else, right?
Oops. Read the ticker incorrectly. (I just got in.) I see now that the Hawks took Horford. My bad.
isiah’s not really gonna trade for zach randolph, is he? he can’t believe that it’s a great idea, making david lee and eddy curry redundant, while letting a social malcontent loose in the biggest city in the world.
please tell me this is a ruse.
On the one hand, Francis and Frye for Randolph seems like highway robbery and still leaves enough pieces to make a run at Lewis or whoever else becomes available.
ON the other hand – How would Randolph possibly fit? There’s a reason people are begging to take a chance on Sean Williams, we have no interior D. Randolph would make this even worse.
I’m hearing it’s for David Lee…not Frye.
the rumor I saw was Randolph and Martell Webster for Francis and Frye. this makes some sense both ways, Zach’s contract is brutal and I doubt any other team in the league would take it on. Webster is only 22 still, with great shooting range. our starting five defense would be so awful, though, maybe we’d have to go after Artest in addition? for Q or Crawford plus Nate?
I’m kind of rooting for Taurean Green for our pick, but it’s still ten picks away.
why would we want 2 post players like curry and Zach?
Randolph’s contract screams: “Isiah, please take this off our hands so we can build a winning team around Oden and you can wallow in capped out mediocrity into the next decade”.
done deal, we didn’t get Webster, FUCK. I think we’re hoping to draft Glen Davis and then petition to join the NFL.
I’m waiting for Isiah Thomas to grab Ricky Lucas, to make him the first NBA player from my alma mater.
are we really getting upset by dumping frye and francis and getting someone who put up 26 and 10, we have a huge lineup now who can score, they cant double team either and randolph has an outside jumpshot
Oh, and Fazekas is still on the board.
Harlan, I’m not exactly sure where I stand on the Randolph deal, yet…
jon, I’m a Blazers fan. Webster isn’t any good anyway, so don’t feel too bad about that. According to ESPN the Blazers are going to buy Francis out of his contract one year early, so it’s basically Randolph for Frye. I think this is a great case off addition by subtraction here. Randolph puts up impressive numbers but doesn’t make the team better at all (like Eddy Curry), and they can just have Frye and Aldridge fight for his minutes with the loser backing up the two frontcourt spots. That’s without mentioning his craziness and contract. Jack/Roy/???/Aldridge/Oden with Frye, Webster and Spanish Chocolate off the bench. Sounds good to me. Hotdamn, I wish this trade had been for David Lee. My only comment on the Knicks is that Randolph and Curry could “lead” the Knicks to an all-time bad defensive season.
They can double-team both of them; neither can pass out of the paint. Or block shots. Or defend. Or hold onto the ball. Or…
yeah, we’ll be tough to match up with on offense, and dreadful on D. just don’t draft another big guy, Isiah.
I actually think the Dickau pick up is the most significant part of that trade. We have been desperate for a true pass-first one for several years. I like the thought of letting Dickau bring the ball up and controlling the offense and letting Star/Craw/NateRob work off the ball. I have long thought the key missing link to our offense was a true PG.
Salaries from HoopsHype.com
we have a twin tower lineup now, put q at the 3, crawford at 2, and marbury at pt, with curry or randolph st center/pf, very scary lineup, with d lee coming off the bench with balkman, we need to draft a shooter and we are looking good
yeah, definitely a good move for Portland, Duff. no way you wanted him in the same locker room for even one game with Oden.
so who are we rooting for? Almond? Cook? Green?
so we have two low post scorers who can’t pass the ball out of a double team, and a roster full of players who can’t or don’t know how to feed them.
a great deal in fantasy basketball.
unfortunately, we’re living in a nightmare.
i want a shooter, take cook, maybe rice
So now lets get a shooting guard!
Dickau and Jones expire (6 mil. off the books next year). That doesn’t quite counterbalance the Randolph contract, considering Francis expires two years sooner. What happened to getting under the cap by ’09? I guess I should have known better…
There’s an underrated downside to this deal: less PT for David Lee! There’s no way he gets to start now.
Seriously, we just traded cancer for cancer…But, hopefully, we can dump Randolph for a RLewis, etc. The funny thing is that when I bought NBA Live 07 in September, I actually traded Francis for Randolph! No BS! I then traded Randolph to Atlanta for Josh Smith. Hopefully we can do the same, but I highly doubt it, especially if thewy just drafted Horford. I am happy we got two actual SGs. I am pysched we got Dickau! Now we have two white guys on our roster! Hopefully we can draft Jordan out of Po Town…How funny would that be! I dont think we have had three white dudues on the roster since Brian QUinett, Stuart Gray, and Kiki.
I haven’t really made a call on the trade. I wanted to post the salary #s as an FYI. It’s possible that we can flip Fred Jones into something, perhaps a 2nd rounder?
We know that Randolph can score and rebound. He’s a mid-post player; so I don’t suspect that he and Curry will be tripping over each other in the post. On the downside, there probably goes my dream of the Knicks becoming more of a mid-tempo team. Portland’s offense oriented around Randolph was one of the few that was slower than NY’s.
we’re never going to get under the cap, it was never a consideration from the second Isiah took the job. he tries to add talent by taking on salary, we should all know that by now.
dammit, Philly takes Cook.
Also if Pritchard can find a way to get Rashard Lewis for a reasonably affordable price, I will build a statue of him.
Q: I missed the first few picks. What’s the deal with Boston’s Jeff Green pick? What’s the proposed deal with Seattle?
celtics got ray allen for wallly green and some others
“What?s the proposed deal with Seattle?”
it’s done, Ray Allen for the #5 pick (Green), Wally and West.
maybe we can take Pruitt, he looks like a good fit.
we weren’t under the cap after 2009, anyway, and maybe not even 2010… but this makes it definite. We are capped through 2011. For that reason, I hate the deal.
There’s also no possible way that Randolph and Curry can play at the same time.
But… Zack is a better version of Curry, in that he can rebound. So, maybe this will free up EC for a trade. In which case, this isn’t a bad deal.
As almost everyone on this board recognizes, Lee is a far better player than either of them so we can only hope Isaiah doesn’t cut his minutes. I wonder if he has the balls to cut back on Curry…
I gotta wonder if he doesn’t already have a deal in mind – Randolph to someone else, like Dallas. I know it’s highly unlikely, but I am fantasizing about a trade for Devin Harris…
DUMB DUMB DUMB.
Unless Randolph is getting moved to Chicago for Noah and a resigned PJ Brown and some other parts or to Seattle for Lewis or to NJ for Jefferson, I don’t get this move. Just stupid. It’s like getting Francis when you already have Marbury. Just awful. Damn you Zeke!
And Jared Dudley just got take, who I really hoped the Knicks would snag.
Dudley to CHA. That’s a surprise.
Randolph doesn’t really play in the post so much, guys. he scores a lot facing the basket in the 12-15 foot range. he does have many similar deficiencies to Curry, though.
Not sure who else they might have taken.
He does have shooting range, but he really can’t play on the perimeter. If Eddie and he are in the game at the same time, who are they going to guard?
What I like about Chandler is that he’s been a shot-blocker.
if they’re in separately, who are they going to guard? :)
Aren’t the Knicks now over their allotment of players. Someone has to be moved, right?
i actually trust isiah when it comes to drafting. he’s proven me (and us) wrong enough for us to trust him on this.
so hooray for wilson chandler. welcome. i’m sure he’s gonna be just fine in orange and blue.
i said this morning to a friend that the nba draft is the one day of the year i can be a knick fan and have some hope that we’ll do something constructive.
blame me for the jinx.
“Aren?t the Knicks now over their allotment of players. Someone has to be moved, right?”
I think they’ll still make a run at a sign and trade for Rashard Lewis. Seattle is thin on bodies, so maybe a 3 for 1. Crawford, Nate and Morris for Lewis?
is it just me or did Spike steal Larry Brown’s glasses! I guess Chandler was not a fluke…I think this is the first time we have not been surprised by our pick since John Wallace.
Yeah my first thought on Randolph is him shooting short jumpers – if we could teach Curry to pass just a few feet out of a double then we shouldn’t have a problem making them work on offense, especially since the attention given to Curry makes offensive rebounding easier for Randolph who can finish well (as it does for Lee).
I guess we’ll see – when healthy, Washington has been a pretty good team with no frontline and no defense outside of Caron Butler. I don’t see why we couldn’t do alright with a more balanced team on offense than theirs. Still, I would feel more comfortable if we took Randolph with the intention of flipping him for Lewis say, who fits a much clearer need.
fyi Hollinger’s new collegiate prospect predicition system had Chandler rated as the 18th best prospect in the draft, not counting internationals.
Hoopinion raised questions about Hollinger’s (non-published) formula by doing a side-by-side comparison between Chandler and Julian Wright.
I’ve never even seen the guy before tonight, but based on this crash course it doesn’t sound as if Isaiah has gone completely off the deep end.
figured uta would go almond.
The frontcourt defense of Curry/Randolph is going to be laugh-out-loud bad. And this takes more time from Lee.
on the flip side, pretty damn glad to see Francis and Frye gone. Francis is the last remnant of Larry Brown’s reign of idiocy and Frye was awful last year after looking pretty good his rookie year. maybe my two least favorite Knicks last year, SEE YOU!
Isiah maybe thinking Zach could work by taking pressure off Curry to be the go-to player/scorer and that makes sense!
we still need an outside threat but either way we have a better trading chip than Steve francis!
Okay guys hold up look at this trade again, we got rid of Steve Francis. And we got Fred Jones, a very good defensive 2 or 3 who is also a good slasher. Zach Randolph can flat out play, hes not a great defender but he is a very good offensive player. Now we have a whole new dimension, we can run a high low offense which I think could work extremely effectively.
Any astronomy buffs here? What happens when 2 black holes come into each others’ gravitational pull?
It’ll be interesting to hear the sales job Isiah does on Randolph to convince him that he’ll be a better player at a much lower usage rate.
One residual plus of this deal is that it raises the likelihood that Crawford’s usage rate will go down next year.
PHX takes Tucker?
Eww… can’t shoot at all. Good defender though. I might have taken Marcus Williams were I PHX.
Hey, look, this team is much better than it was yesterday. If the Knicks can package David Lee and Nate Robinson for Rashard Lewis (I don’t know if this is possible), you could look at a lineup of Marbury, Crawford, Lewis, Randolph and Curry. That is a very good front line in the lEAST. David Lee was the only reason I watched the Knicks last year, but if they can move him for Rashard Lewis, this team could be really competitive. It would let Q-Rich just hover and nail threes while the bigs draw all the attention.
I cannot believe anyone would want Jason Smith. He will SUCK.
The best thing about this draft is that the Bulls took Noah at #9 and he is going to be absolutely worthless in the NBA. Thanks, Paxson.
j-rich to CHA for b-wright?
j-rich has gotta be pissed.
Tacoma News-Trib Sonics blog:
Ray Allen says that he doubts Rashard Lewis will want to stay in Seattle.
Don’t see Zak and Curry in the start lineup at the same time. With Curry starting and Zak splitting time each can be more aggressive on defense without Zeke worring about losing low post offense. Lee, Balk and now Chandler, which one is getting traded? Still don’t like the added salary on this trade.
“Marbury, Crawford, Lewis, Randolph and Curry”
Is this an answer to the trivia question: who are the 5 worst defenders in the NBA?
The trade for Randolph is definitely doubling-up on the existing talents that we have in Curry. However, purely from a talent standpoint, I think we improve. Randolph is the single best player in the trade.
Zach Randolph is 6’9″ and will play power forward. He has a solid jump shot from 17 feet out. You guys are crazy if you don’t think he is immediately the Knicks’ starting power forward. Also he rebounds, which isn’t Eddie’s strength. I know nothing about Lewis’ defense, but I think Thomas has shown that he wants to run an up-tempo offense. Lee and someone are going to have to be packaged for Lewis though. Think about it folks, that front line wins games in the East. Rashaard Lewis, Zach Randolph and Eddie Curry. Be happy. The team could be markedly better than it was a week ago. Q-Rich, if he were healthy enough, would be a terrific 2-guard. The team plays better with him on the floor.
As for the J-Rich trade, my thought is “what???” for both sides. Why would GSW want another young project, and why would the Bobcats want J-Rich and his imminent contract demands?
Hey Albany, why do you want to get rid of David Lee so badly?
The Knicks had 14 guaranteed contracts coming into tonight. They dropped 2 (Francis and Frye) and picked up 4, right (Chandler, Randolph, Dickau and Jones)? Who will get cut???
Boy did Lee look pissed when the Frye – Randolph trade was announced…
They traded his best friend and screwed his pt all in one fell swoop. My heart goes out to you DLee.
Wright/J-Rich trade just made official…
“?Marbury, Crawford, Lewis, Randolph and Curry?
Is this an answer to the trivia question: who are the 5 worst defenders in the NBA? ”
Isiah actually is the first GM to take advantage of the upcoming rule change in which teams get 200 time outs a game. so the above five are the offensive team, and he’ll shuttle in Collins, Balkman, Jeffries, Lee and James for each defensive possession.
That’s 13 by my count. Up to 15 with the trade. Balkman, Lee, Robinson, Collins are all team options. Maybe Malik Rose gets bought out?
I don’t want to get rid of David Lee. He was the only reason I watched last year. But he is the chip now.
The list I had before the draft was:
1 Renaldo Balkman
2 Kelvin Cato
3 Mardy Collins
4 Jamal Crawford
5 Eddy Curry
6 Steve Francis
7 Channing Frye
8 Jerome James
9 Jared Jeffries
10 David Lee
11 Stephon Marbury
12 Randolph Morris
13 Quentin Richardson
14 Nate Robinson
15 Malik Rose
Cato is not with the team anymore, so it’s 14.
Somebody IS gonna get cut/bought out.
No more trades please. The team looks fine.
D-Lee shouldn’t get pissed because if anybody his best friend hogged his playing time, and with Rose most likely going to be bought out, his minutes are going to be just fine. If he wants more PT, maybe he should develop a reliable jump shot.
I love D-Lee but the talk of him starting only started because Frye did nothing with his PT while D-Lee was putting up double doubles off the bench.
I dunno about you guys, but if Randolph stays with the Knicks, I’m buying his Jersey. He was a Beast in the West, and should tool dudes in the East.
I wonder if Owen’s head exploded.
Hows this for a trade: Jamal Crawford, Jared Jefferies, Randolph Morris for Antawn Jamison (Expiring contract).
This is the absolutely classic Isiah Thomas trade.
Take a look back at every deal he has made since he came. On paper it ALWAYS looks like he got the best of it.
But when you look at the pieces playing together, or the contract situation, it turns out to be a disaster.
Marginally better than the absolutely no hope we used to have with Scott Layden, but we are still going to suck.
And I am sick of people saying we were never getting under the cap. When he keeps piling on contracts, that is true. But the common theme to every trade Isiah has made is he opens up cap room for another team to get immediately better (See PHX, TOR and now PDX).
This absolutely sucks.
Wow. What a night. I have to say, my head IS about to explode. This trade obviously makes DLee expendable in ISAIAHWORLD, and if he goes, I swear all fQ$%Q$* hell will break loose.
Honestly, this was must the most ridiculous move ever. Here we have the best young power forward in the league, and one of the worst starting centers, and what do yo do? Go out and get a PF who can’t play center. Unreal.
Wages of Wins perspective, very uncertain, which is unusual, since most players are very consistent. Berri had a post on Randolph. Here is what he said.
“Randolph only played 238 minutes his first season. In his second season he played only 1,301 minutes, but his WP48 of 0.165 suggested that he had a bright future ahead of him. His third season he became a full-time starter. In more than 3,000 minutes he produced 6.9 wins. His WP48 of 0.107, though, was only about average.
In 2004-05 Randolph dipped below average, posting a WP48 of 0.085 in only 46 games. Last year he again returned to full time duty, but his WP48 fell to -0.003. Of the 74 players who played at least 2,500 minutes last year, only Trenton Hassell offered less production.
After 31 games in 2006-07, though, Randolph has been transformed. His WP48 is 0.219, the highest mark of his career. So what happened to Randolph? Relative to last year he is hitting a higher percentage of his shots and capturing many more rebounds. Per 48 minutes in 2005-06 he captured 11.2 boards. This year he is collecting 14.3 rebounds per 48 minutes.”
I think Randolph is better than Curry, Frye or Francis, best player in the deal, as someone said, but I dont trust his numbers, and the contract is ridiculous.
And if the end game here is to trade Lee for Rashard Lewis, well, I will have to give up on the Knicks for a while.
If the idea is to trade Curry, well then, hallelujah…
I think I’ll hold off until I see what Isiah’s next move is.
If it a trade not including David Lee, this could actually work.
“Hey, look, this team is much better than it was yesterday.”
I think we have suffered through such bad bad basketball for close to 10 years in NY that we might as well wait a little longer. Realistically, there is very little chance of winning the title next year, so who cares if we get marginally better than we were yesterday? The Knicks, since 1996 (when Grunfeld traded for Lohaus, Shandon Anderson’s brother and a bunch of other expiring contracts) have totally neglected the rebuilding process.
Phoenix didn’t. They bottomed out, sending away their over paid star. The next year they won 60 games.
Chicago didn’t. They got rid of their high priced, flawed players for considerably less value. They’ve improved each year.
It’s no coincidence that each time, the Knicks ended up with the players they wanted, and have gotten worse for it.
This Randolph deal is no different. Unless there is another facet to the deal already lined up, it is just another frustrating attempt by Knick brass to give the illusion of fielding a competitive team to justify the high ticket prices at the Garden. A championship is not the goal. “Significant Improvement” is the lame-ass goal. 10 more wins and we are still only a .500 team in a lousy division in a lousy conference.
Contractually, we could have bought out Francis, freed up his roster spot, and his contract would have come off the books in ’09. We’d still have Frye (a really good guy who will definitely be a better player than he was this past year) to either play or trade in a logical deal. And we wouldn’t have the horrendous contract of Randolph.
In fact, I was laughing at the team that ended up with Randolph’s contract, assuming it would be the Lakers (as the consolation prize in the Garnett sweepstakes) or the Nets (a trade that would have made much more sense, if someone was actually going to take on Randolph). As it was, it’s the Knicks I’m laughing at. I guess I should have known.
I hate this deal.
Okay, now that I’m done being pissed off (kind of), I went to find the news of the trade, and I have only seen it reported on this sight by John Abbey and Hudson River. Is it really a done deal, or am I getting all worked up about nothing here?
I wouldn’t worry about Lee, he’s not so undersized to not play center. He’s going to find a spot, and *fingers crossed* will continue to be a Knick shining light.
The trade has been reported by Yahoo, ESPN, all the major places.
Here’s Yahoo’s link – http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AtwPciW_2fKOazfBtZUFg528vLYF?slug=ap-knicks-trailblazerstrade&prov=ap&type=lgns
Jerome James, Eddy Curry, Zach Randolph, Malik Rose. ROFL ROFL ROFL
I think this Zach trade is going to pay off in the long run !! I wonder how many of you all are really Knicks FANS ! Never happy with player moves but are the first to BEEF about EVERYTHING !!! Tonight we as a team is much better !!!!
Never happy with player moves but are the first to BEEF about EVERYTHING !!!
I don’t get the “but” part of this statement.
If someone is “never happy with player moves,” then wouldn’t it be logical that they would “beef about” something?
So why include the “but”?
In any event, are the Knicks better as a team now with Randolph in place of Frye and Francis? Depends. As many people have pointed out, this is a typical Isiah Thomas trade – he ends up with the best player in the deal, but he never seems to worry if it FITS.
Does Zach Randolph really fit in with the Knicks when he duplicates a lot of Curry’s skills and weaknesses and plays the same position as the Knicks’ best player, David Lee?
Are the Knicks “much better” if this deal leads to them trading Lee?
Are the Knicks “much better” if this deal leads to diminished minutes for Lee and increased out of position minutes for Lee?
To the “trading Lee” one, I think the answer is a definitive no.
As to the “new role for Lee,” that’s to be seen.
It certainly is not clear-cut either way.
Albany – I don’t think Randolph Morris is under contract, at least not according to HoopsHype.
He is signed, if ESPN is to be believed:
The New York Knicks signed Kentucky center Randolph Morris, who played his junior season as an NBA free agent, to a contract Friday.
Randolph Morris’ two-year deal with the Knicks is reportedly worth $1.6 million.
The Knicks did not announce terms of the signing, but an NBA source told ESPN Insider Chad Ford that it is a two-year deal worth $1.6 million.
I took the off-season off. I come back and get totally shocked. I think this is the first time I’ve ever seen a unanimous opinion, and from so many sources.
randolph’s contract is pricier than i thought…. no wonder this trade was as lopsided, talent wise, as it was….
atleast the guy is entering his prime at age 26.
finally, though, i can understand some of the negative reaction.
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