Knicks Morning News (2018.11.16)

I am a pizza fanatic, and enjoy both of the versions that Jron described. I’m less partial to chicago-style. There’s a place where I grew up in the Bronx called 3 boys from Italy that spoiled me from a very young age, they made the best NY-style round pizza and equally great Sicilian-style that was not crazy thick and had a crispy crust. The most important ingredient for me is the sauce, although the crust is a close second. I take my kids there once in a while and they agree that it’s the best they ever had.

There was a place called Caesar’s Palace on the UWS that was close to 3 boys in quality, I would regularly get 2-3 slices to go and eat them in my car during my commute home. A couple of years ago, I parked my car across Columbus Ave as I usually do for a pizza pickup, paid the munimeter and was about to cross the street when I couldn’t find Caesar’s. I was sure I was on the right block, but felt disoriented felt, almost like one of those weird golf dreams where you can’t tee off. I eventually realized that Caesar’s was no longer there, having suddenly and mysteriously gone out of business. It was the most depressing food-related moment of my life, and I haven’t found a suitable replacement since. The storefront is still vacant and I still dream that one day it will re-open.

What’s next in this sequence: Clyde, Dollar Bill, Patrick, Sheed, ???

Melo? Those are all ex-Knicks who Fiz brought in to inspire our youngins. Well since Melo’s available…just sayin’. I’d like Melo to tell Fiz about some of our history, specifically, that 2013 54-win team that finished last in dimes but thrived because of the spread PnR. Maybe the light will go on and Fiz will recognize that’s the best system for our personnel. Trying to implement a motion offense a la Spurs or an ISO Miami offense are fools errands with these players.

Not being able to get a half-decent bagel or slice of pizza (there are some good-not-great neapolitan/other fancy pizza places) was probably the toughest thing about my move to Miami. There are places that claim they “import water from New York” but they’re either lying or that isn’t the actual reason for NY’s quality because they still don’t even compare.

For my money, the best casual slice in NYC is Pizza Pete’s on 86th and Columbus. Their slice is indescribably perfect. For bagels, Absolute on 108th and Broadway is still king.

@6

I’m pretty sure what explains most of the difference in the quality of ny bagels vs anywhere else is because most all places in NY boil their bagels and proof their yeast. The water quality helps (it’s nota myth–nycs water is very unique) but it probably has a modest effect on taste. It’s more a combination between all three and that they’ve been doing this for decades to centuries that explains it.

For pizza it’s just that we have experts here and the level of competition is high.

I heard it was the fluoride in the nyc water that made it great for pizza.
Does anyone remember a place on 51st and second called ‘little nickys’?
It’s no longer there but that was the best pizza and Italian menu I ever had. I brought a few friends there and everyone agreed it was other worldly. Old Italian guy who never smiled and his wife did all the cooking lol. A tyrant like Mussolini but one hell of slice. The sauce was phosphorescent red and the cheese oh ma ma Mia!

From a good Vorkunov piece on why the Knicks aren’t playing the fast, wide-open style Fiz promised:

“It’s a balance,” Fizdale said. “Because as coaches you’re always stubborn about your style and what you envision and all of that stuff. But that ultimate vision is so far down the road. The most important thing is are these guys getting better. I gotta put them in situations that allows them to get better and sometimes that might not be at the moment exactly how I want to play. My perfect vision is — we’re far from that. But it is trying to get them to play the way I want them to play but not to our detriment and now a guy can’t do anything because he’s frozen. I still want to highlight what they’re good at but at the same time still be stubborn enough to get in my style of play at some point as we build it.”

Lot of good context in the piece, and Fizdale sounds like he very much wants to pick up the pace eventually, but is working with a VERY limited roster.

RIP, WIlliam Goldman, a great writer and a great Knicks fan.

I get my pizza at Umberto’s of New Hyde Park. I love all their food.

I could never support Melo coming back if for no other reason but to avoid the incessant Melo apologists, who like Trump supporters, continually seek others to blame for his failings.
Adieu Carmelo Anthony.
You were a low IQ scorer, with great talent, who would have greatly benefited from a few more years under Jim Boeheim’s tutelage at Syracuse.
You also forced the Knicks to unnecessarily gut a young team to get you, which only showed how your selfishness extended beyond the court…
And the one year the Knicks had success was the one year there were veteran players on the team that could keep you in your lane.
Adieu

I think the second best team in the west (assuming they are healthy and Roberson comes back 100%) is OKC. They were better than given credit for last year. They had some ups and downs early in the season and Melo was bad, but when they lost Roberson it was a huge blow to their defense just as they were starting to put it all together with the new pieces. If you subtract out Melo and get even average play from his minutes, bring back a 100% Roberson, and add in a somewhat improved bench with Noel, Schroder and a few young players, that is a very good team. They could move past an aging Rocket team.

@19

A lot of Italian immigration, specially southerners, and a 12 million people city will do that for you hahaha. As it’s so huge there’s the worst and the best, but the best is incredibly good, on par with the best stuff I ate in Italy or New York for sure.

PJ Brown? I know he won them game 7 v LeBron that year.

Leon Powe! Weird, right?

One guy on r/rockets told me that it took time for the Miami 3 to “gel,” so why would it be any different for Harden-Paul-Carmelo? Yeah, okay buddy.

He’s not wrong factually or in theory about other new combinations. He simply wrong about Melo. That’s what happens when you start with an idealistic notion (Melo is a superstar). You eventually become idealistically delusional about the real world and find ways to ignore or spin facts to fit your delusion.

When I briefly lived in Chicago, I ate at Art of Pizza and it fucked me up good. NYC/New Haven/Neapolitan are clearly superior in their own unique and beautiful ways, but there’s something about a giant pie of fluffy dough that gets me all sorts of wet.

Really? I dunno, different strokes and all, but I really felt like I was eating a pile of dough dipped in tomato sauce. I mean, it was good, but it ain’t pizza, and I’ve gone back to Chicago since without caring to go back there.

Did you try a random restaurant’s Chicago-style or did you seek out a top place? I had a slice in the west suburbs that was basically Pizza Hut, and then Art of Pizza in Lakeview changed my mind.

L&B is terrific. I forgot about it but it’s for sure on my list. Juliannas has a terrific margherita as well.

Had deep dish at pequods, which was good but didn’t change any opinions I have regarding the superiority of ny and Neapolitan pizza

I’m vegetarian now but what I really miss in the south is a good pastrami. Reuben’s deli in Atlanta has the best one Ive had outside of New York though (along with Neal’s deli in carrboro NC)

Yeah, if I ever consider moving out of Brooklyn, this conversation will make me think extra: No pizza, bagels, or deli (pastrami, real corned beef, brisket…)?????? GTFO!

I would give my paycheck for a picture of Trump eating a Filet-o-Fish with cutlery made of solid gold. That would be the Trumpiest thing, especially if he used the Constitution as a bib.

Vorkunov:

Allonzo Trier, Knox, Mudiay, Robinson, and THJ starting tonight for the Knicks in New Orleans

Knox playing the 4 is promising, but that defense outside of Robinson will be… yikes.

There is no pastrami outside of New York. Fucking cretins. Though good salt beef is nice

I think the second best team in the west (assuming they are healthy and Roberson comes back 100%) is OKC.

one of the interesting questions of the first month is whether Portland has really escaped the middle income trap. Lillard has obviously escaped his own future as an overrated no defense scorer to become one of the lowest turnover playmakers in the game who is pulling more drb per 36 than Myles Turner. the real question is (1) whether Nurkic’s weird start is a real change — hard to say. He is shooting an unsustainable 60pct from 3-10 but his orb might be for real and his FT% might be partly for real and if he really can’t do better than 13pct from 3 he’ll stop those…(2) how good Zach Collins will be bc not only has he been good but in the playoffs he gives them a great alternative to having a conventional big who can defend well but is still clunky against hyper small ball lineups. Portland could also benefit from a pickup during the year, especially if Stauskas and Turner start playing worse.

I am rooting for Roberson to make a healthy comeback, though the odds may be long. A defensive lineup of RWB, George, Roberson, Noel and Adams going full bore for short playoff stints would be fun to watch and while then offensive spacing would be horrific they might power through with hero ball and ORB.

There is no pastrami outside of New York. Fucking cretins.

You can get top notch pastrami at Langer’s right here in Los Angeles. It’s kickass pastrami, even the most hardened New Yorker would have to admit it.

It’s tough to get a good slice of pizza in LA though. Even the better places would struggle to compete with a random NYC pizza joint. There were some people here yesterday saying that the quality of NYC pizza has dipped precipitously over the last ten years, but every time I’m in the city I’m kind of stunned how almost all of the rando, no-frills basic ass pizza joints can deliver a quality slice. I also love bodega food, especially the classic breakfast bodega sandwich, and it’s sad to see those places go the way of the dodo bird.

Like most sane people I prefer NYC-style pizza to Chicago deep dish, but deep dish is some good shit in its own right. It’s not really pizza, it’s more of a quiche, but give me some Lou Malnati’s and I ain’t gonna be mad.

Z-Man,
Ever been to a place called Mario’s in the Bronx? My dad used to take me there when I was a kid…

Love Katz’s pastrami. The lean kind especially. Still so juicy and a few meals worth on one sandwich. Ben’s Best in Rego Park, honorable mention. Oh NY kosher hot dogs…that snap.

Sometimes the best food is in the outer boroughs. Flat bagels from a place on Queens BLVD, in Kew Gardens…

You start to kid yourself it’s OK here in VT. Brueggers starts to tase alright. A reality check is necessary and delicious.

As to GSW, anointed best player in the world had the team looking like hot garbage last night. KD should shut the fuk up. Yes, Dray should have found him, and he’s crazy, but Curry is the best player on that team and maybe the best player EVER. They don’t look remotely the same without him and WON A RECORD # of games with him and Harrison Barnes. Not taking anything away from KD but ISO hero ball is a bad formula. Not only is Curry the most skilled player I’ve ever seen but he’s also the least selfish. That team is special because of him.

Allonzo Trier, Knox, Mudiay, Robinson, and THJ starting tonight for the Knicks in New Orleans

Well Fizz is bumbling his way into the spread PnR though this is not the best lineup. What will be interesting tonight is if they start offensive possessions with a high PnR (I nominate Timmy as the PnR ball handler) instead of wasting time with dribble handoffs which lead to ISOville.

Fiz is in a bit of a tough situation. In a perfect world, Enes would not be on the team and Vonleh and Kornet would be taking his minutes at the 5. But he’s here and Fiz gotta play him for non-Bball reasons. Plus you never know if some deal might open up at trade deadline where we need his large expiring contract. For example, maybe Wiz will look to shed salary and might be interested in Enes/Knox/2020 pick for Otto Porter? However, after the deadline, I hope they cut him, let him join a contender and then play Luke and Vonleh.

It’s a spread attack without either of our good perimeter defenders. And it’s got three shoot-first-pass-never wing players on the court at the same time with a shoot-first PG. Ideas like this should never be thought of.

Where can I bet the under on Knicks assists tonight?

Remember when spike lee claimed he coined the phrase “double nickel” when Jordan scored 55 first game back against us?

Turns out he stole that expression from EPMD… fraud

We need to get the brightest minds here building some Pizzametrics…..

Bagels – it’s all about the water.

How many current Knicks would get any playing time on other teams? THJR, Lee, maybe Kanter. This team is really lacking in NBA talent. The tank to a top 3 pick is looking better and better. Knicks are so due for some draft lottery luck, its been over 30 years since they hit on Ewing. Zion is living up to the hype, visualize him in Knick uniform and help make it happen.

well ok i take that back… theres probably a lot of places like joes… but what makes joes better than them is that you can pretty consistently get a a slice thats 5 minutes or less out of the oven…

zach collins is a good player but i still dont think hes being used right… hes hanging out a lot on the 3pt line when his 2pfg% is over .600…

but he was one of the most talented bigs to come out and an absolute steal for the blazers..

Djphan called it – there are still good places to get pizza in NY, but the 99 cent joints – which are often ok, though not good – have killed the middle of the market slice. There used to be a few places near anywhere I had to be where I could get a good slice, now it’s just 99 cents or bust. Time to move to Sao Paulo…

Though with a mother whose mother is from Sicily and father is from Bari, maybe I should just move back home, and live in my mom’s basement like DRed.

Though with a mother whose mother is from Sicily and father is from Bari, maybe I should just move back home, and live in my mom’s basement like DRed.

If we do one of those genetic tests we could find out we’re related. 🙂

That’s the one thing that was so amusing for me in NYC. Like, there’s literally tons of places where super cheap slices are sold everywhere. I won’t claim they are good, but they’re decent enough for the price at least. Here it’s either you get a pizza, a regular one, or there was some attempts to sell cheap slices but they were either overpriced for what they brought or just downright garbage.

That’s the one thing I miss about NYC and some European places, cheap food joints. Everything fast in Brazil is so expensive in comparison.

Boy, I do miss pizza since becoming vegan. If anyone is in the Middlesex County area of NJ I suggest Sciortino’s in South Amboy. Some of the best pizza in the tri-state area.

I’m gonna double down since no one got pissed at me for one of my comments above.

I’m gonna say that, coming off the 2015 loss to CLE, GSW didn’t even really need Durant. They may have needed an upgrade over Barnes, who was abysmal in the finals, but they didn’t need a ball dominator. As good as KD is, they’ve become overly reliant on him as an individual scorer. They’ve gotten away from the ball movement that made them completely revolutionary and dominant.

I don’t minimize him as a ball player but his attitude is wearing thin (as potentially is becoming evident with this weeks fireworks.) He’s not bigger than the team. He’s the second best player, pound for pound, and there are two other all stars, one who he chewed out in public.

If he leaves (and comes to NYC where I’d gladly take him as our problem, lol) they can take their freed up max slot and be just fine if not better.

OK lemme have it…

My favorite pizza joints in Brooklyn are Not Ray’s Pizza on Fulton and South Portland, and Gino’s Pizza on Flatbush and Bergen Street. Since $1 pizza came around I stopped trusting places that don’t make fresh mozzarella pizza, but there’s a ton of quality pizza in New York. I’ve never had pizza anywhere outside of New York just because most of America thinks Dominos v. Papa John’s is the prevailing pizza argument. Cannot be trusted.

You know your basketball team sucks when the discussion on your blog is all about pizza, bagels, and food with a sprinkling of hoops here and there. It’s truly amazing where we end up going. I miss NYC pizza alot, San Diego pizza – it’s just not good.

I’m getting hungry from all of this.

If we do one of those genetic tests we could find out we’re related. 🙂

Well if you go back far enough…

Friday night is pizza night in our house. Bummer is that my kids both have celiac disease, and though we’ve managed to find OK gluten free pies, they still have a long way to go to get to great….That said, spending Friday night with your kids is a great night in my eyes. Even if the Knicks are terrible.

Clarence Gains on why he doesn’t comment much on Knox

“He got injured early in the season. I haven’t watched the last 3 Knicks’ games. Actually watching the Toronto game now. Doubt I’ll watch the last 2. It’s a longggggg season. I make comments when I feel the spirit – Stay tuned.”

More on Frank’s progress

“Frank has gotten his opportunities – still feeling his way – my dad said “opportunity does knock at every door but it’s never been known to pick the lock.” I’m looking forward to the day Frank knocks the damn door down!”

I will say I don’t like KD, but not trying to resign him would be unbelievably stupid. And us not trying to sign him (if he even considered such a thing) would also be unbelievably stupid. Top 20 all-time players don’t grow on trees, and it isn’t like he’d be much beyond his prime. I mean, come on.

All that said, I also agree that Steph is better, or at least more important on that team. He’s a truly transcendent player…just like Jordan Hill, but one draft slot better.

The Swedish meatballs are better in Stockholm.

Ever been to a place called Mario’s in the Bronx? My dad used to take me there when I was a kid

In the Arthur Avenue area?

I don’t like pizza, could care less about bagels, and hate the Knicks…

…and yet I’ve read every word of this thread.

What’s wrong with me??

Hmm…

I don’t like pizza, could care less about bagels

Found it. Your saving grace is the appropriate response to this god-awful, forever-fucked franchise.

I haven’t said it lately, so let’s bring it back: fuck James Dolan to hell.

Okay. This is silly. It’s not 2015 anymore. In 2019 they won’t have 3300 minutes from two of the best defenders in the NBA: Bogut is gone and 36 year Iggy will be close to the end. Draymond, Steph and Klay will all be edging toward the worse part of the aging curve. Most important, letting Durant go doesn’t “free up” a max slot. They can keep him and go miles over the cap but if they simply let him leave as a free agent and keep Klay and Dray they have no room to add anyone next year. They’d still be a formidable team as long as Steph was healthy but without Durant the 2019 Warriors are nowhere near as good as the 2018 Warriors or the 2015 Warriors.

Co-signed. It really doesn’t look good for the Warriors no matter how Durant’s decision plays out. Klay is not worth $35M AAV between 2019 and 2022, but that’s what he’s going to get. Draymond has also shown signs of slipping from his Swiss Army Knife peak in 2016. So the decision is either to push all the chips in — giving massive contracts to Durant, Klay and Green during their decline phases — or blow the whole thing up, maybe S&Ting Klay or trading Draymond as a rental the following year.

I don’t feel bad for the Warriors at all, but they’re in a position where they may have to pay through the nose for a team whose average starters’ age is ~31, and after those players have played 100+ games a year since 2014. Livingston and Iguodala are looking ancient these days and their young bigs (Jones, Looney, Bell) are productive but definitely benefiting from a bunch of offensive wizards running a motion O.

Sooner than later, the Warriors are going to get knocked off by a “lesser” team because they’re getting older while upstarts like Denver have an average starters’ age of, like, 23, and are only getting better. As always, reputation will fail to keep up with production, and that will mean contract bloat and a lot of dead weight.

Why so glum? Isn’t this what we always wanted? We have the youngest team in the NBA, all of our first round picks going foward, a coach who isn’t concerned about winning now but is instead developing/tanking for the future and we’re not making trades for overpriced veterans and are basically just letting the older players expire if we can’t find trades for them. Lee hasn’t played a single minutes this year because of his “neck injury” and Lance is out for the next month because of his “knee injury.”

This is what people on this site have wanted for years and we’re doing it. We’re starting 3 rookies tonight.

Yeah, I didn’t think I’d get very far taking shots at KD. Kinda like taking shots at Aretha Franklin’s voice…

Of course, from the perspective of the ghost of Christmas future I get it. They can’t go back to what they were. Also, I had not thought of the cap ramifications of KD’s Bird rights or whatever.

Still, it’s AMAZING to see the effect Curry has on that offense and that, as great as KD is as a scorer and even as a passer, the team was as stagnant as a feted swamp last night. Also, I don’t buy Durant’s alpha dog mentality. He should stop. That team is special because of the blend and the ball movement. When they’re right they’re a cross between the D’Antoni Suns and the Showtime Lakers. They’re NOT a Michael Jordan team or a LeBron James team. He gave up that vision when he signed there.

Also, I compared Curry to KD pound for pound. Curry is small and susceptible to injury. Defensively he’s more vulnerable. If you’re choosing in a pickup game, sure, KD goes first. But Curry is just such a uniquely skilled player and, like Steve Nash or Jason Kidd, has such an amazing effect of the way the ball moves. KD is starting to seriously annoy me (though I really want him on NYK of course.)

I actually do like bagels, but have divested myself from them because most of them contain L. Cysteine which is an enzyme additive that is used to condition the dough. L. Cysteine comes from human hair and/or chicken feathers, making bagels, surprisingly, non-vegan.

I guess it’s probably used in the pizza dough y’all are loving on this thread too. But pizza is also, obviously, non-vegan by nature, so it’s less of a big deal to learn about:)

Forgot you were a vegan. You’re forgiven.

I’ve never even lived in New York and have no intention of doing so, yet now I want to go on a bagel and pizza based vacation to NYC more than I ever thought I would.